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Glitched Weather in English Platinum [Part 2, Clearer Video] (Update March 18, 2009)

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How about we just forget the whole thing even came up and not mess with shoddy at all. It clearly is an unintended glitch and a very useless glitch at that. . If it has the capibility to lock the game in an infinite loop then I really dont see nintendo doing this on purpose. End of story. Just forget it happened and we will see in a few weeks if the english version got fixed.

It is stupid to ban castform becasue of a glitch that isnt intended to even be there. It is stupid to ban Pursuit becasue it keeps some pokemon in check. It is really stupid to ban Cherrim. Weather moves and abilities shouldnt be banned.
 
Lexite said:
How about we just forget the whole thing even came up and not mess with shoddy at all. It clearly is an unintended glitch and a very useless glitch at that. . If it has the capibility to lock the game in an infinite loop then I really dont see nintendo doing this on purpose. End of story. Just forget it happened and we will see in a few weeks if the english version got fixed.
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That's really preemptive. You have no proof that this is the case and seem to make this claim wanting it to be true.

(I doubt any change is made to shoddy before the North American release)

Lexite said:
It is stupid to ban castform becasue of a glitch that isnt intended to even be there. It is stupid to ban Pursuit becasue it keeps some pokemon in check. It is really stupid to ban Cherrim. Weather moves and abilities shouldnt be banned.
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Would you rather ban Pursuit, or ban Castorm/Cherrim and keep the weather? Pick the lesser of two evils.
 
I said no, neither. Dont ban Pursuit, dont ban Cherrim, just dont put the stupid glitch in at all. Just ignore it since it is just an unintended glitch that clearly has the ability to lock your game in an infinite loop. I can send an email to nintendo if you need proof and I think we can wait just a little over a month and a half before we decide anything and see if the english version is fixed.

It would be utter stupid to impose a glitch that was unintended and then have to ban moves and pokemon that do not need to be banned and have no reason to be banned. This is like holding a court case for a law suite for a burglar that went into a person's house, hurt themselves while trespassing and then sued the owner of the house he tried to rob. We dont need to do the whole song and dance for something that was wrong to begin with.
 
No one gets to use it. It is clearly bad for all involved. Since it is, there is no point in putting it in on shoddy.
 
Why are we spending this much time on discussing such a glitch?

If any of you remember back to the days of Stadium 1 you will remember that if Hyper Beam missed you would be forced to recharge. Would we want that programmed into NetBattle or have misses no forced recharge turn like in RBY? (I am pretty sure they fixed that in Stadium 2.) Obviously, I would stick to the way it was intended to be programmed in RBY.

We know it doesn't happen in D/P (probably wouldn't happen in PBR), so why go through all this trouble trying to figure out and implement an unintended glitch?

If Smogon gets all tied up over things that shouldn't even happen... How the heck do we get anything done around here?
 
The best argument for not implementing is that only one player can activate it. It's inherently unbalanced.

As for wifi? Well, use US platinum when it comes out and they fix the glitch.
 
Lexite said:
I said no, neither. Dont ban Pursuit, dont ban Cherrim, just dont put the stupid glitch in at all. Just ignore it since it is just an unintended glitch that clearly has the ability to lock your game in an infinite loop. I can send an email to nintendo if you need proof and I think we can wait just a little over a month and a half before we decide anything and see if the english version is fixed.

It would be utter stupid to impose a glitch that was unintended and then have to ban moves and pokemon that do not need to be banned and have no reason to be banned. This is like holding a court case for a law suite for a burglar that went into a person's house, hurt themselves while trespassing and then sued the owner of the house he tried to rob. We dont need to do the whole song and dance for something that was wrong to begin with.
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Except that the exact case DID get tried, and the burglar did win.

http://overlawyered.com/2006/09/the-burglar-and-the-skylight-another-debunking-that-isnt/

Also, it's like in RBY the fact that Hyper Beam doesn't need to recharge after it kills something. Does it make an obviously overpowered move obviously overpowered? God damn it does! Did Game Freak fix it in Pokemon Stadium? Hell yeah. Does that mean RBY simulators should have the fixed glitch? No. You can't have six-man teams and the fixed glitch at the same time, so to have six-man teams it'd be a link battle, which means the glitch exists. There's a reason the RBY analyses note the changed mechanics in Stadium- Simulators simulate ideal battling conditions: two people with the most updated carts playing face-to-face in a local battle. Does the glitch occur under these conditions? Yes. Should it be simulated? Yes.
 
It amazes me just how far the "purists" are willing to take Shoddy in an attempt to emulate the game 100%. Developer's intent is obviously not something any of us can be certain of (unless this gets fixed in US Plat, making this all moot), but I can't see a single reasonable argument demonstrating that this "acid rain" is at all intentional. Imposing a bunch of restrictions (which would be completely unneeded otherwise) upon the metagame just to replicate what is very likely a glitch seems like a step backwards to me. Adding more rules and restricting more Pokemon doesn't seem to mesh well with what we've been trying to accomplish - doing so just because a suspected glitch was discovered in the latest game makes it even crazier.

And before I get the inevitable "it's not Pokemon" reply, questioning the implementation of a suspected glitch is not on the same level as giving Slaking Pure Power or Flareon Flare Blitz. I realize that nobody will likely change anything before US Plat is released and the glitch is either confirmed or denied. However, it's disheartening to see some people with knee jerk reactions clamoring to change the game just because it's possible on the cart (with hardly any consideration towards its effects on the current metagame(s)).

Syberia said:
I think we can be fairly certain that the developers did not intend to implement something which can cause the game to enter into an infinite loop.
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I personally agree. But I'd rather have the disclaimer if only to ward off the odd "BUTT U DUN KNO FO SURE!!11!" posts.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Also, it's like in RBY the fact that Hyper Beam doesn't need to recharge after it kills something. Does it make an obviously overpowered move obviously overpowered? God damn it does! Did Game Freak fix it in Pokemon Stadium? Hell yeah. Does that mean RBY simulators should have the fixed glitch? No. You can't have six-man teams and the fixed glitch at the same time, so to have six-man teams it'd be a link battle, which means the glitch exists. There's a reason the RBY analyses note the changed mechanics in Stadium- Simulators simulate ideal battling conditions: two people with the most updated carts playing face-to-face in a local battle. Does the glitch occur under these conditions? Yes. Should it be simulated? Yes.
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You could have 6 man teams on Stadium 1 if you chose free battle, no restrictions.

Little Green Yoda said:
Developer's intent is obviously not something any of us can be certain of (unless this gets fixed in US Plat, making this all moot).
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I think we can be fairly certain that the developers did not intend to implement something which can cause the game to enter into an infinite loop.

On that note, as soon as PBR Platinum comes out, this will be a moot point, provided the glitch does not appear there. You are perfectly capable of playing 6 on 6 free-level battles in that format with Shoddy's sleep clause, mind you.
 
Yes, but therein lies the problem. Of course it's obvious that the guy shouldn't have gotten a goddamn penny out of the whole thing. But on some level, you have to know that despite the ridiculousness of the whole thing, there is an obligation to uphold the legal standard that trumps logic. And that's the point here. Sure it seems stupid to enforce this glitch, and sure it seems obvious that the game wasn't meant to be that way. It is what it is. And if Shoddy Battle is to be as perfect a simulator as possible, then this is necessary.

Also, let us note that regardless of how it functions in DP, it makes no difference. Since this glitch exists in Platinum, omitting it because it doesn't work on DP would mean we'd also have to ban Giratina-O, Shaymin-S, and Rotom-A, because they also don't exist outside of Japanese Platinum. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
 
Lets stay on topic about Killer Sun, Mega Hail, and Mud Storm.

Any more posts that are off topic will be infracted.

Edit: And I think the current decision is to wait and see If American Platinum impliments it before adding it to shoddyy
 
Cherrim and Castform: Uber stallers. I never thought I would see the day...
perpetucherrimem2.gif
glitchformanimbwm4.gif


So, are there any other interesting effects? How about Dry Skin Croagunk/Toxicroak, Paras/Parasect?
 
RB Golbat said:
Lets stay on topic about Killer Sun, Mega Hail, and Mud Storm.

Any more posts that are off topic will be infracted.

Edit: And I think the current decision is to wait and see If American Platinum impliments it before adding it to shoddyy
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I'm pretty sure most people want to wait, as most believe Gamefreak will remove it. I'm not sure if they will or not, but that isn't the point. Personally I don't mind either way when it comes to waiting for US Platinum or not, but if we are to implement this, we need to get started on testing ASAP.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
Yes, but therein lies the problem. Of course it's obvious that the guy shouldn't have gotten a goddamn penny out of the whole thing. But on some level, you have to know that despite the ridiculousness of the whole thing, there is an obligation to uphold the legal standard that trumps logic. And that's the point here. Sure it seems stupid to enforce this glitch, and sure it seems obvious that the game wasn't meant to be that way. It is what it is. And if Shoddy Battle is to be as perfect a simulator as possible, then this is necessary.

Also, let us note that regardless of how it functions in DP, it makes no difference. Since this glitch exists in Platinum, omitting it because it doesn't work on DP would mean we'd also have to ban Giratina-O, Shaymin-S, and Rotom-A, because they also don't exist outside of Japanese Platinum. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Sure we can, we omit the glitch and still keep those pokemon. We're doing it right now afterall.Look, everyone wants to play a accurate simulator. We want moves to work correctly, abilities to function normally, etc. But if we implement this correctly then we would have to implement the transformation loop.Meaning we'll either have to ban two pokemon (possibly more) or ban a otherwise useful move, and/or add a random host system. A random host system wouldn't be accurate anyways because the host isn't random when you play on the cartridges.

If it comes to the point where the policy dictates that we must include harmful glitches, then maybe it's the policy that needs a update not shoddy.
 
Chill said:
Sure we can, we omit the glitch and still keep those pokemon. We're doing it right now afterall.Look, everyone wants to play a accurate simulator. We want moves to work correctly, abilities to function normally, etc. But if we implement this correctly then we would have to implement the transformation loop.Meaning we'll either have to ban two pokemon (possibly more) or ban a otherwise useful move, and/or add a random host system. A random host system wouldn't be accurate anyways because the host isn't random when you play on the cartridges.

If it comes to the point where the policy dictates that we must include harmful glitches, then maybe it's the policy that needs a update not shoddy.
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The Policy is to implement Local Wireless battling. Are you saying we should change this?


Edit: Oh, and Lorak, could you make that castform Avy size for me?
 
No, I said if the policy dictates that we must include harmful glitches it might be in need of a update.

The Policy is to implement Local Wireless battling.*

*With the exception of implementing harmful glitches. ;)

As I said though, there is no way to accurately simulate the host anyways. Unless you want to implement a host clause or something like that.
 
Doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to me to determine who is host and who isn't.

In the case of unrated battles, whoever sends the challenge would be the host. Simple enough.

For rated battles, just keep track of when the person clicked the Find Challenge button. When two people are pitted against each other, compare times; whoever clicked the button first becomes the host.

In both cases it ought to be rather simple to implement. Just need an additional variable for the time and If-Else statement to determine who is host for the second case, and not even those for the second case.
 
RB Golbat said:
The Policy is to implement Local Wireless battling. Are you saying we should change this?


Edit: Oh, and Lorak, could you make that castform Avy size for me?
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I can, but it's too big an image file for the av file size limit. The second one has half the frames, half the frame speed to compensate, and should work for an av regarding file size.
glitchformavza6.gif
glitchformavlowqualcx7.gif
 
For those of you who want to "simulate the game 100% exactly" this essentially means you will have to do away with ladder mode in its current form, since now we know that this glitch (or 100% developer-intended consequence designed to penalize the use of Pursuit, Castform, and Cherrim) is entirely dependent on who is the host. Because pure D/P/P mechanics in both wifi and local wireless battles do not allow for matches between random opponents, any method that you work out for determining who the "host" would be in such cases (ex. randomly, or whoever clicks find match first), would not be true to the mechanics of the game.

The only place Nintendo has implemented the mechanics for choosing a random opponent to fight is over PBR wifi, which of course forces you to play either 3v3 singles, or 4v4 doubles, with no Shaymin-S, Giratina-O, or Rotom-A. Or PBR 6v6, which does not include the glitch and therefore doesn't care who the host is, but does not allow Platinum forms.

Essentially, in order to keep ladder mode in its current form, you are going to have to deviate from the mechanics of the game by artificially determining a host for a random battle, in order to uphold the mechanics of the game, in the weather glitch.
 
Fun glitch
Anyways I tested this in Platinum, and I would like to say some things that I believe haven't been said yet. Unfortunately there could've been more, but some hax and not noticing that Groudon activated Acid Sunshine instead of Acid Hail messed me up.

Pokemon used: Abomasnow, Tyranitar, Groudon, Kyogre, Giratina-O (only there because you can't use him on WiFi. Was part of the Thunder testing process because Smeargle died), Smeargle (Solarbeam/Synthesis/Thunder/Pursuit).

GROUDON
1) Groudon activates Acid Sunshine. This was extremely odd, as I expected Rain/SS/Sun and no damage. Acid Sunshine is Rain/Sandstorm/Sun. It hurt Giratina-O and Smeargle were hurt, but I only noticed that it's Acid Sunshine now, so no specifics on what gets hit. I assume as Sandstorm is in play during the crazy weather, it hurts anything non Rock/Steel/Ground/Magic Guard/Sand Veil

2) Groudon clears Acid Sunshine and Acid Sandstorm.

3) Acid Sunshine causes Pokemon to be hurt by their ability, like Acid Hail

KYOGRE
1) Didn't get to test what happens with Pursuit because apparently, when I was testing for Synthesis' healing (which by the way Recovers >25%, but I didn't get to see if it healed 66% or 50%), Smeargle got hit by a CH Dragon Claw and fell prey to the weather.

2) Because rain occurs first, I'm assuming no glitch happens.

2) Kyogre didn't clear Acid Sandstorm. Kyogre also failed to clear Acid Hail

RAYQUAZA
1) Is unaffected
2) Killing Rayquaza with Pursuit still activates the weathery glitch

Moves:
Synthesis: All I know of is that it heals over 25%. Whether it may be 50% or 60% I do not know. This is in Acid Sunshine

Solarbeam: Takes no charge. It just fires. However, I fired this Solarbeam at Giratina, who absorbed it for lol damage. Whether the damage is retained or halved I do not know. Once again, in Acid Sunshine

Thunder: Out of 5 shots of Thunder I threw, all of them hit. Acid Sunshine once more.

Other:
- For the record, the Pokemon being hurt by its ability happens in JP unpatched Platinum

- When Pursuit is used to kill an opponent's switching Pokemon, my game shows a buggy message (I think). Instead of [Opponent Trainer] sent out [Pokemon], my screen says "Go for it! [Pokemon]" or something along the lines of that. It's weird. Clearly, the Pokemon isn't mine but my game screen thinks it's mine for whatever reason.

Recorded this in Vs. Recorder.
Video Code is 61-27879-01498. WARNING: Very long!
 
I can't watch the videos because I have dial up (it's a curse ;_;), so I don't know exactly what's going on, though it sounds really nasty.

One thing people keep mentioning is how the host plays a role in activation or something. Can somebody elaborate on this for me please?
 
Veedrock said:
I can't watch the videos because I have dial up (it's a curse ;_;), so I don't know exactly what's going on, though it sounds really nasty.

One thing people keep mentioning is how the host plays a role in activation or something. Can somebody elaborate on this for me please?
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The "glitch" (as others have called it) only occurs if the host is the one using Pursuit, effectively causing the odd weather to appear. If the non-host uses Pursuit, the odd weather does not happen, AFAIK.
 
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