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Glitched Weather in English Platinum [Part 2, Clearer Video] (Update March 18, 2009)

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So with Jibaku's post, i.e. Kabutops would have Swift Swim active and a x1.5 SpD boost in Acid Rain. If I'm reading this right anyway.

Interesting... IF this is implemented, this could change a lot of things in the game. Although that's more of an "obvious" gesture. If Gamefreak did get wind of this, I can sort of see why they didn't ask for returns of the game and such in order to fix it.

Sitting back, waiting to see what happens with the NA version though.
 
When Rayquaza is sent out, Air Lock takes effect. In the game screen, you can still see the acid weather happening, but it will have no effect. Switching Rayquaza back out resumes the acid weather, just like any weather.
 
100kvolts and I were just discussing this issue on AIM, and here's something to think about:

If this glitch does get implemented into Shoddy, the only fair way of dealing with the consequences of it is to ban the move Pursuit. Why not just ban Castform and Cherrim, you ask?

Only one player can be the host in any given game. If Smogon keeps its current random-matchup ladder system, then the only way to assign someone to the position of host is randomly (or by who clicks the find button first, but since you don't know when you're going to find an opponent, it is still arbitrary and beyond the control of the player).

Whether you consider the effects of the glitch to be good or bad, the fact still remains that only one player out of two can activate it. The other player can use Pursuit just fine, and the host can switch out of Pursuit just fine, if he or she chooses. Since whoever is the host would have to be arbitrarily decided, this would give an unfair advantage to one of the players, which is inherently uncompetitive. The only way to prevent either player from having such an advantage is to ban the move Pursuit.
 
I wasn't around back then, but if Shoddy was created prior to the English Version of Diamond/Pearl, did it have the Pursuit + Choice item glitch that was in early Japanese versions of the game?

Regardless, they fixed that Pursuit-involved glitch, which leads me to believe they'll fix this Pursuit-involved glitch as well.

Or maybe Gamefreak has Cherrim and Castform on their 'Hate' list, right under Farfetch'd. We'll find out in two months.
 
False said:
I wasn't around back then, but if Shoddy was created prior to the English Version of Diamond/Pearl, did it have the Pursuit + Choice item glitch that was in early Japanese versions of the game?

Regardless, they fixed that Pursuit-involved glitch, which leads me to believe they'll fix this Pursuit-involved glitch as well.

Or maybe Gamefreak has Cherrim and Castform on their 'Hate' list, right under Farfetch'd. We'll find out in two months.
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Sorry to get a bit off-topic, but what was this old Pursuit glitch you're talking about? And also, what do you mean about Farfetch'd? >_>
 
The way the old glitch worked was that if you were holding a Choice item, and used Pursuit as the opponent was fleeing, you wouldn't be locked into Pursuit, and could choose another move.
 
Oh, right, I remember someone mentioning that before, or possibly another thread... ^^;

Thanks for the refresher.

Anyways, to make my post a little less spam-like, I have to say I agree with Syberia, although for a different reason. If this glitch does end up being implemented, something will HAVE to be banned, as we now have two Pokemon that force an infinite loop when the glitch is in effect. I personally believe that the less that is banned, the better, so I'd rather see the one move banned rather than the two Pokemon, regardless of "competitive viability".
 
I also mentioned this on AIM: I00KVolts: Also I don't think we should put all of this behind us if the glitch is fixed on the NA release. We should still determine whether Smogon's philosophy needs fixing.

From what I have seen we try to accomplish two things when simulating Pokemon. We try to stay as close to the cartridge as possible, and we try to make the game as competitive as possible. If doing the former conflicts with the latter we have a problem. We should at some point work on a way to reach a compromise between the two.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aN2xKY82Sc

It would seem that, in this video, Weavile is hit by Acid Hail even though it is an Ice-type.

Also, apparently Walrein at full health gets alternatingly hurt and healed by the glitch.

Lapras was hit by the Acid Hail; Snow Cloak Mamoswine was not hit. Snow Cloak Garchomp was also immune to Acid Hail.

So everything that does not have Magic Guard, Ice Body, or Snow Cloak is hit 4 times by Acid Hail. Snow Cloak gives the evasion boost in Acid Hail.
 
Well, it seems likely that there is an order system to weather effects. Based on findings by RBG and Syberia.

Hail > Sun > Sand > Rain

Where a certain permanent weather condition, when activated by the glitch, causes acid everything below it.

Acid hail causes 4 weather conditions.
Acid sun causes 3 conditions
Acid Sand causes 2 conditions
Since acid rain is the lowest priority, not only does it not effect the higher conditions, but it does not cause any damage at all. I assume it is carry-over from damaging effects that causes sun and rain to damage.

Also to be noted, in the most recent video, that the weather is done in reverse order. rain, then sand, then sun, then hail.

These acid conditions can only be cleared by effects of higher or equal priority.

Hail can only be cleared by abomasnow, sun can be cleared by groudon or abomasnow, etc.

I'd like to see the operation of the higher level acids, and their effects on move powers. (namely water and fire attacks, under acid hail or acid sun). How they effect air lock and similar abilities, and how they effect weather based moves.
 
Syberia said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aN2xKY82Sc

It would seem that, in this video, Weavile is hit by Acid Hail even though it is an Ice-type.

Also, apparently Walrein at full health gets alternatingly hurt and healed by the glitch.

Lapras was hit by the Acid Hail; Snow Cloak Mamoswine was not hit. Snow Cloak Garchomp was also immune to Acid Hail.

So everything that does not have Magic Guard, Ice Body, or Snow Cloak is hit 4 times by Acid Hail. Snow Cloak gives the evasion boost in Acid Hail.
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From the videos I have seen (at least the 4-weather ones), it seems to be the abilities showing up to cause the damage, not the weather. For example, "Scizor was hurt by Technician" and not "Scizor was buffeted by the hail". Pair this with the fact that certain Pokémon do not take damage due to their abilities, and it could well be that the weather isn't causing the damage, the abilities under the conditions are. This changes a couple of things, at least in my opinion. For example, Solar Power -- the Pokémon loses 12.5% HP when it is sunny, for a 50% power boost. There are many questions to be asked over this, such as "Does it lose 50% HP (12.5 × 4), for a 200% boost? Or does it lose 50% + 25% (6.25 × 4) for the same 200% boost? If it was the weather causing the damage it would be more likely that the latter would happen, but if it is just the ability, the Pokémon would be likely to only lose 50%. Of course I am only hazarding a "guess" at what the boost would be, but judging from the effects that Ice Body has been having, it could make sense.
 
From the videos I have seen (at least the 4-weather ones), it seems to be the abilities showing up to cause the damage, not the weather.
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In Acid Sand, the Pokemon get hurt by Sandstorm. In both Acid Sun and Acid Hail, the Pokemon get hurt by their ability.

What happens when you Pursuit and KO someone out of U-turn?
 
I think I recall the glitch activating in that case, Jibaku.

If you use Pursuit after the glitch is active, it simply stays active; that was shown in the last video I linked to.
 
Syberia said:
100kvolts and I were just discussing this issue on AIM, and here's something to think about:

If this glitch does get implemented into Shoddy, the only fair way of dealing with the consequences of it is to ban the move Pursuit. Why not just ban Castform and Cherrim, you ask?

Only one player can be the host in any given game. If Smogon keeps its current random-matchup ladder system, then the only way to assign someone to the position of host is randomly (or by who clicks the find button first, but since you don't know when you're going to find an opponent, it is still arbitrary and beyond the control of the player).

Whether you consider the effects of the glitch to be good or bad, the fact still remains that only one player out of two can activate it. The other player can use Pursuit just fine, and the host can switch out of Pursuit just fine, if he or she chooses. Since whoever is the host would have to be arbitrarily decided, this would give an unfair advantage to one of the players, which is inherently uncompetitive. The only way to prevent either player from having such an advantage is to ban the move Pursuit.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think that this is a good thing. This means that teams cannot be based around Acid Weather, as you wouldn't even be able to activate it 50% of the time. If there was a hosting system of playing matches, then Walrein, Clefable and other Pokemon with weather-based abilities would probably get abused to no end. Also, the player who is not hosting the match plays some part in the activation of the Acid Weather, as they choose whether or not to switch out of a pokemon carrying Pursuit. They obviously do not have as much control as the Pursuit user, but they nonetheless contribute to the activation of the Acid Weather.

I argue that Pursuit should not be banned if Acid Weather is implemented into Shoddy. Pursuit is a widely used move (Scizor and Tyranitar have it very often), while Castform and Cherrim are basically not used, so their banning would have much less effect on the game. Since there is no way to know if you will be the host of a match or not, it is not logically sound to base a team around the weather. Since it doesn't make sense to make a team around the weather, both teams will probably be equally affected by the weather. Since both teams will be equally affected by the weather most of the time, it is fair. Also, both players play some part in the activation of this weather. In conclusion, I personally see no reason to ban Pursuit.

On a side note, I think the banning of Pursuit would make Trick Room teams much better, which would be fun! :toast:
 
I've been following this glitch for awhile and we absolutely have to implement it.

Anyhow, this is going to be a _bitch_ to implement. The host / slave system is the problem, as Shoddy does not have one, and match control would be decided on a coin flip. I'm hoping that this gets fixed before North America, otherwise I think what we'll have to do is make the official platform for battle be the DP version of Pokémon with tradebacks. This would mean no Rotom alts, but we'd have to live with it.
 
wow solar beam thunder and blizzard get only their weather boosts and thunder doesn't suffer a acc drop so the next thing i'm wondering is how does fire and water moves behave under this glitch are the both boosted or reduced or not changed?
 
fire and water moves behave under this glitch are the both boosted or reduced or not changed?
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I think it was confirmed that it boosts water moves, so I don't see why it wouldn't boost fire moves.
 
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