If we are going to be talking about sleeper threats.
Since
was banned instead of Zacian as a whole, Zacian-Hero can now just replace Zacian-Crowned on the same teams, potentially being a bigger threat than Zacian-C was. Before, it not only had to compete with Zacian-C, but would also be outsped by Zacian-C if it wasn’t running Scarf.
Well, now that Zacian-C is banned, and Calyrex-S was banned before, Zacian-Hero can run rampent across Godly Gift with (almost) uncontested Speed, a Zacian-C with even more power, and gives the same stats as Zacian-C. You only give up Behemoth Blade, which wasn’t that great without Dynamax, and the Fairy/Steel typing, which only really affects Substitute sets. That tiny price to be the second fastest available Uber (or practically the fastest), and having one of the highest damage outputs for a God.
And in a previous post, I mentioned what made Zacian-C so broken was how it could pass its insane speed to any Pokemon, which brings me to the next thing I want to bring back up.
Marowak-Alola, potentially Regular Marowak as well, is ridiculous here. I mentioned it before, and among the Pokemon that benefited the most from Zacian-C’s speed was Marowak-A. That speed boost turned its awful 45 Speed into the 7th fastest available Pokemon in the tier.
Now obviously, the only Pokemon that can give 138 Spe to Marowak are Zacian-H and both forms of Zamazenta, and the faster Pokemon available aren’t too spectacular as Gods, Marowak seriously forces you to run some serious speed control or a hard counter. If you don’t have Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak/Aqua Jet, or do not have a Pokemon that is immediately faster like Dragapult, your entire team will be devistated by Marowak-A. I honestly had to account for Marowak-A more so than I did with Zacian-C, since Zacian-C not only has coverage issues (such as being set-up bait for Def Volcarona, being stopped by HP Rotom Heat, and struggling against Weezing-G if it didn’t have BB, while Alolan Marowak could care less about them), but also status effects. Marowak-A can not be burned without some set up like Soak, and it can also absorb Prankster Thunder Wave with Lighting Rod. Oh, and because of Thick Club, Marowak is also Imposter-proof (even being imposter-proof, Marowak-A still sus), unlike Zacian-C which would lose them the entire game.
But if Zacian as a whole does get banned, what would be the issue?
Well potentially Zamazenta could be used solely for its Speed boost, as it gives identical stats Zacian has, and Mewtwo/Eternatus/Spectrier could all pose a problem as well, since they are all incredibly fast as well. 138 to 130 isn’t that much of a jump, and while the pool of Pokemon able to outspeed Marowak has increased. it still is very much restrictive since you absolutely have to account for it on Defensive, Balance, and Offensive teams.
It may not hit as hard as Specs Kyogre’s Rain boosted Water Spout, but it certainly matches the rest of Uber’s power with even better Speed and not taking up a God slot.
Also, it’s technically not a “sleeper” threat since I think everyone is familiar with Marowak-A.
And not technically a sleeper threat either, or even a threat.
I mentioned this in my previous post, but Kyogre honestly outclassed by Kyurem-W in this metagame, and I’ll repeat some of my reasons and give some new ones.
1. While Kyurem’s Raw power is much weaker than Kyogre’s;
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Kyurem-White Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 427-504 (105.6 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 672-792 (166.3 - 196%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 493-582 (122 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Kyurem-W’s power is a lot more consistent. No matter how much damage Kyurem-W takes during battle, it won’t make Draco Meteor any weaker. After just 2 Stealth Rock, 2 layers of spikes and Stealth Rock, a few turns in Sand/Hail, ect, it’s main source of being hard to switch into are gone, and you will need to switch to Origin Pulse. Kyurem-W doesn’t like Hazards either, but is can potentially use Roost to gain back its HP, while Kyogre needs Rest.
The dependency Kyogre needs on its HP stat being high also means that Kyogre is pretty weak to priority as well.
Also, I should say this, but yes.
You. Need. To. Respect. Full. Power. Water. Spout. Besides ORAS and Gen 7, this fact has always been true for Ubers, especially in Gen 4 and 5. Very few Pokemon can switch into a Specs Rain Boosted Water Spout regularly. It is also a bad practice to assume you’ll get the best case scenario, and should often assume the worst may happen.
But on the flip side, you got to respect a ton of things in this Meta as well. Being able to give Kyurem-Black’s Attack to something like Hawlucha, or giving Nidoking one of the many 150 SpA in the meta. The stats you give a Pokemon almost define what how good your God is.
2. Segwaying into my next reason is the stat distribution of both.
Kyurem-W has
25+ HP
20+ Atk
0+ Def
20+ SpA
40- SpD
5+ Spe
In every stat besides SpD and Def, Kyurem provides a better stat to its subjects.
And while I just said 138 Spe isn’t much different that 130 Spe, 95 Spe vs 90 Spe makes a far bigger difference.
The 90 Spe tier is very crowded with Gods. Dialgia, Zekrom, Giratina, Giratina-O, Ho-Oh, Groudon, Reshiram (which isn’t particularly good), and of course Kyogre. Also, due to the nature of this Meta, several teams could potentially have 2 Base 90 Spe Pokemon, which your Kyurem-W and Speed Slot Pokemon will almost guarantee to outspeed automatically. At worst, they will only have one Pokemon with 90 Speed being the God themselves, but that still means you’ll likely outspeed a literal Uber. Often, teams will have more Pokemon that are even slower than Base 90, since some will be defensive walls in HP/Def/SpD as well.
And back to its other stats.
100 HP is pretty good, but 125 HP is much better by a mile. The Low HP High Def types like Pyukumuku appreciate having even more HP, and Ditto can become near impossible to kill with 125 HP. Shuckle can also be great since Kyurem can fit well on HO.
100 Atk is pretty awful, and even contradictary too Rain teams. It forces Barraskewda to take up a valuable Defensive Slot if you want to run a Rain team, otherwise its weaker or slower thanks to Kyogre. A more defensive Pokemon could go into that slot, but if it’s a Rain team, you are only hurting yourself by loading your team with Defensive Pokemon. Rain teams can only really function in Gen 8 if they are able to put in the work while Rain is up.
If you would say, why not just use a non-Rain team, then go back to see Kyurem-W’s and Kyogre’s stats again, as 120 Atk isn’t half bad.
Defense on both are literally identical, however Kyurem-W doesn’t have to decide on being in Speed or Defense, as Def is its lowest stat, and only something like Clefable would benefit from it. Though, it would absolutely not matter if you really wanted to run five 96+ Spe Pokemon on a Kyurem-W team.
150 SpA is lower than Kyurem-W’s again, so using a non-rain team would also be weaker. However, this is one of the few parts where Kyogre isn’t hopelessly out matched by Kyurem-W in this meta. Giving 150 SpA to any Swift Swimmer, like Kingdra or Ludicolo, or just a fast Special Water type, can provide a decent edge over Kyurem. Unfortunately, this is still limited to Rain teams, as Kyogre’s weaker offense is still bad. But then again, Kyurem-W can run a lot more different Pokemon on its teams, and most of them won’t be checked by Pokemon that are similarly to what checks Kyogre.
In addition, 150 SpA is also pretty crowded like Kyogre’s Speed stat. So many Ubers get in the range of 150 SpA (adding in Mewtwo and Eternatus since they are close enough), and most of those Ubers still give a decent Atk stat (or in Rayquaza’s case, give an equal amount of Atk to SpA and is also in that 95 Spe tier). The exception being Mewtwo and Eternatus, which instead give insane speed.
Lastly, Kyogre also gives a much better SpD. The second highest passable SpD from the Uber Pokemon, behind Ho-Oh and Lugia. But again, Rain teams need to be fast paced. Even the more defensive Pokemon in regular Rain teams help in that regard. Ferrothorn putting up Hazards to making KOing easier, Tornadus-T having a strong Hurricane, a Item removal move, and a Pivot move, and Pelipper setting up rain while also having a pivot move (something Kyogre also lacks as well). You can make Ferrothorn, Tornadus-T, and maybe Avalugg or Doublade super bulky on the Special side, but it honestly is not that interesting.
Also I will say, having higher Physical Defense is much much better than having higher Special Defense. In general, being physically oriented is MUCH better than Specially oriented, even without Blissey or Chansey. Groudon may have just the Physical version of Kyogre’s stats, but because it’s more physical, Groudon is a much better God as well. 150 Atk on something like Victini or Shiftry is absolutely terrifying, and 100 SpA is ironically still decent since Venusaur will have identical SpA, unlike Barraskewda who otherwise will have less Atk in the Atk Slot on a Kyogre team. Additionally, 140 Def is simply better than than 140 SpD, since in general, Physical Attackers are a lot more deadly than SpA, even in a Zacian-Cless meta. They will have moves like Flare Blitz or Close Combat while Special Attackers get Over Heat and Shadow Ball (they are great moves still, but FB and CC are in general better overal). Oh and you can give a Pokemon 140 Def Body Press too, where as SpD has nothing similar.
3. Prediction Reliability.
While Kyogre has coverage able to hit everything at least neutrally. However, due to this being and Uber’s Metagame, in addition to Zacian-C being banned, Kyurem’s STABs are not resisted by much either. Between the Viable Gods, it’s just Necrozma-DM, which Kyurem-W has Fusion Flare and Earthpower for. Kyurem-W can also run Freeze-Dry if it wants, so Pokemon such as Pyukumuku, Tapu Fini, and Slowbros can be attacked while using its main STAB, instead of being forced to use Thunder on them. This also means a Pokemon like Gastrodon or Rotom-Wash do not serve as a stop to Kyurem-W as much as they do to Kyogre. Because of that, and Turbo Blaze ignoring Flash Fire+Levitate, Kyurem-W is harder to switch into in practice. Those STABs also hitting many common Gods for SE damage, since most of them are Dragons. On top of that, the extra 5 Spe helps Kyurem-B a lot when being harder to switch into.
4. There is a pretty big fundimental difference between between Ubers, OU, and this Metagame. Even if the rule of 1 Uber in an OU team had its own Meta Game, the fact that you can pass Uber stats makes the meta a whole lot different.
Before in regular Ubers, Kyogre is actually A+ rank while Kyurem-W is C+. However, Ubers lets you use 6 different Uber Pokemon at once. In Godly Gift however, you have to consider what the sole Uber you’ll be using and it’s stats it gets in its base form.
For example, while Marshadow and Zygarde-Complete are top tier Pokemon in regular Ubers. Marshadow is a fast and strong attacker with a move that steals boosts, while Zygarde-Complete extremely Bulky. In Godly Gift, they are far from being top tier because the former simply only has good amazing Atk and Speed, while the later won’t pass its massive 216 HP (and only pass that and it’s Def stat, as every other stat is pretty low) since its an alternate form.
With just 1 Uber available, the rest of your team needs to support you as well. Here, you are also making those technically not Ubers into Pokemon that would be top tier in Ubers or something that can handle the landscape much better.
As an example I said earlier, Volcarona and Rotom-Heat were pretty decent answers to Zacian-C, something whose only true counter in regaler Ubers was Quagsire, with Ho-Oh and Necrozma being strong checks. Here, there is a lot of Pokemon who can approriate a ton of HP or SpD that would allow they to tackle Kyogre as defensive checks pretty easily. A lot of Pokemon that otherwise would be trash are also much more valuable in this Meta with the certain Bans and gaining massive stats gains.
Because of that, Kyogre is a lot easier to check or even counter defensively than it otherwise would in Regular Ubers.
On top of that, Kyogre also share a similar problem with Marshadow, in that it only has 2 excellent stats, one of which you’ll get the same results from tons of other viable Gods, and the other is the least important stat in the game. It has good HP, but tons of other Pokemon do as well.
Kyogre may have nuclear power with Rain boosted Water Spouts, but so do the vast majority of the Pokemon in this Metagame, and not just Gods either, and they can be much faster than it and not be so dependant on its HP stat.
Same with Victini, where something short of a Flash Fire user or an extremely Thick Snorlax can want to deal with a CB V-create.
Should Hawlucha be banned? It’s Atk on a Kyurem-B team is astonishing alone, and nearly OHKOs the entire Meta after 1 Sword Dance, while also outspeed almost everything in the Meta too.
Should Goodra be banned since a Def from Calyrex-I and a few Acid Armors makes its Body Press drop anything besides Ghost types and x4 resists, while making Goodra nearly unkillable to anything besides a strong Special Ice attack?
Hell, why not ban Calyrex-I too? Very few Pokemon want to switch into its CB attacks, on top of giving actually good stats to its team.
There is just so many Pokemon that can become nuclear bombs or become Fort Knox, and the only thing that makes Kyogre stand out is its ability in Drizzle and having both high Special Defense and Special Attack at the same time. It offers really nothing else unique that I should care about, and in some cases may be detrimental to the teams it would normally work with in this Meta.
Where utility is king, Kyogre flounders like a fish out of water.
And btw, Kyurem-W isn’t even that good in this Metagame, but it still is arguably better than Kyogre.
So it kind of shocks people so many people want a Pokemon who really borders on being unviable to be suspect tested.
(tl;dr version: Kyogre good in Uber, mediocre in Godly Gift)
(also that Kyogre/Kyurem-W section is over 2000 words long lmao)