Metagame Gods and Followers

I pondered this, but how will type changing Gods affect teambuilding?

Take example one wants to run Gyarados w/ Gyaradosite as the god. Do you run flying type followers or dark? What happens if the Gyarados mega evolves, will all flying type followers become obsolete? If dark types are following said Gyarados, what happens if it dies before mega evolving? Honestly its really confusing and I'd like it to be addressed.
An example of this is in the OP; only water and flying types will be allowed, just like how Primal Groudon can only have ground-type followers and MMX (used to) only have psychic type followers. Flying type followers would still be able to follow the Mega Gyarados, but that still leaves the question of why you would want to.
 

G-Luke

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I feel like Embargo is kind of a weak effect for letting your god faint. If it mattered more, than it would be more used in standard play. Also, it's not like Embargo restricts Mega Stones or Z-Crystals. All it does is eliminate a bit of passive recovery or a bit of power or something like that. In the beginning of the OP, you said that followers would "make the ultimate sacrifice" to become "honorable martyrs," but no items isn't quite worthy of that. Plus, if your gods dies, why should you drop your Leftovers because of that? Maybe no abilities could work as a replacement.
I think you fail to realise the significance of items to the function of a team. Crucial OHKO'es and 2HKO'es are gone once LO or Band/Specs are gone from a wallbreaker. Revengekilling skills are dead when your Scarf is dead. Rain teams struggle alot more when their rain only last 5 turns. Let me throw some scenarios

A Mega Charizard-X has a DDance under its belt against a Mega Gengar team. Nothing on a Gengar team naturally outspeeds it after a boost. Normally that's a dead team, but with a Scarf Nihilego...

252 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 296-350 (99.6 -117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

That threat is eliminated and the team is saved from a potencial devastating loss. Now if Gengar was already dead, that Scarf would be useless and that team dead. Another one is:

A well built SkarmDos core supported by a Bulky Mega Gyarados is walling a Solgaleo team to death. Normally, Specs Hoopa-U would soften up the core quite well. But if the Solgaleo is dead...

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 319-376 (95.5 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 213-252 (63.7 -75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Zapdos: 256-303 (66.6 - 78.9%) --guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Zapdos: 171-202 (44.5 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 298-352 (75.6 - 89.3%) --12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 200+ SpD Gyarados-Mega: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Hoopa cannot nearly wallbreak as efficently, without its boosting items in play, and in the case with Zapdos, can potencially outlast Hoop itself with correct plays.

Also the arguement about not seeing use in standard play is obvious since Embargo isn't permanent and can be removed via switching. The ability argument is null because Gastro Acid is the same thing.
 
If I wanted to make a team around Wobuffet, what are some mons that are good/mandatory?
I ordinarily wouldn't advise it, but if you wanted too what you'd have to keep in mind is what can take advantage of Wobbuffet. Think Psychic-type setup sweepers that want free turns, like Genesis Supernova Mew or maybe Trick Room Reuniclus. Alternatively, look for something that has a common answer, but only one, on most teams, like Hoopa-U or Alakazam-Mega, and build around using Wobbuffet to pick it off. In general, though, Wobbuffet really isn't that good, especially without the MSable pairing that got Shadow Tag banned.
 

G-Luke

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Alot has happened since February, seeing that some of the Mega Stones have been released AND Pheromosa has gotten the boot. I probs will build a couple new teams to reflect the new changes, but I think it makes G&F even better.

(G&F tour when @Jajoken?)
 

Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
Correct me if I'm wrong but assuming that I have a Dusk-mane Necrozma with Ultranecrozium Z will allow me to use Steel/Psychic followers instead of Dragon/Psychic since the mega type changing rules apply here?

Apart from them, look whom we have here!



One of the new additions to SuMo, marshadow's typing has one of the reason it shined in Ubers and I think it has the potential to become one of the most prominent
'gods' of this tier.Ghost type teams had always faced difficulties against normal teams partially because ghost moves were unaffected on normal but with marsh's fighting type support it's less of a problem, while on the other side fighting types always had difficulties facing flying and fairy types, but worry not! With ghost support such Gengar and Cofagrigus.

I haven't built a 'decent' enough team for it 'yet' but I will.

With coming of UltraSun and UltraMoon, we got ourselves a few 'new' gods and couple of new Z moves.Looking forward to people actually realizing how much 'Potential' this metagame has, and also rooting for seeing someone post some teams, I just feel we need some more samples for newbies to get started with.

and Jajoken , G&F TOUR WHEN? :O
 
Since there were no Necrozma-DM sample teams before, I'll submit one.

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Iron Plate
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake

Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shift Gear
- Fleur Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Latias (F) @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Healing Wish
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Roost

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Toxic
- Taunt

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt

Cobalion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock


Necrozma-DM is different from Solgaleo and shouldn't be treated as the same god, because this mon can actually sweep, unlike Solgaleo. The focus of this team is to sweep with Necrozma-DM or Magearna. The teammates are designed to support those two mons.

Now to the roles of each mon. DM and Magearna are your main sweepers and they both have sets for sweeping. Latias is for checking Pdon as well as both Fire and Ground mons in general. It also provide screen support and Healing Wish for second chance of sweeping in case your DM or Magearna got statused. Tapu Lele is for revenge killing and hitting Ho-oh with Psyshock that otherwise may become an issue for this team. Heatran acts as your first Stealth Rock setter and acts as Stallbreaker for pesky stallers and Cobalion is your second Stealth Rock setter (yes, I carry two Stealth Rockers, it's needed) and it deals with Ho-oh and Dark types.

I haven't really thought of cores for a Marshadow team but if I have, I'll make one and submit it.
 
Last edited:

Ransei

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One of the first things I have had in concern on my first day leading God and Followers was on what types teams using Ultra Necrozma should carry as followers. My primary intention was for Ultranecrozium Z teams to match the types of Dusk Mane or Dawn Wings but after gathering my thoughts for a few hours and rereading parts of the OP I have decided to only allow Monotype Psychic teams to carry this Z-Crystal. This is because Psychic is the only type Necrozma consistently keeps in battle regardless of its form. Ultra Necrozma teams would otherwise seem out of place due to the majority of their Pokemon having the capability of losing their type similarities with the this Pokemon upon transformation. This decision can also be helpful for balancing purposes in regards to Dusk Mane. With Dusk Mane's track record in Uber-based metagames and the overwhelmingly great type combination it gets for its followers Dusk Mane is speculated to easily be one of the best gods in the metagame regardless and restricting Ultranecrozium Z to Monotype Psychic teams would likely make Dusk Mane as a god more predictable and easier to prepare against.

This should lead us to having no exception over the rule of a base Uber who can change form having their primary type determine type restriction.

Thanks for reading

tl;dr: Ultra Necrozma can only be used in Monotype Psychic teams.
 

G-Luke

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One of the first things I have had in concern on my first day leading God and Followers was on what types teams using Ultra Necrozma should carry as followers. My primary intention was for Ultranecrozium Z teams to match the types of Dusk Mane or Dawn Wings but after gathering my thoughts for a few hours and rereading parts of the OP I have decided to only allow Monotype Psychic teams to carry this Z-Crystal. This is because Psychic is the only type Necrozma consistently keeps in battle regardless of its form. Ultra Necrozma teams would otherwise seem out of place due to the majority of their Pokemon having the capability of losing their type similarities with the this Pokemon upon transformation. This decision can also be helpful for balancing purposes in regards to Dusk Mane. With Dusk Mane's track record in Uber-based metagames and the overwhelmingly great type combination it gets for its followers Dusk Mane is speculated to easily be one of the best gods in the metagame regardless and restricting Ultranecrozium Z to Monotype Psychic teams would likely make Dusk Mane as a god more predictable and easier to prepare against.

This should lead us to having no exception over the rule of a base Uber who can change form having their primary type determine type restriction.

Thanks for reading

tl;dr: Ultra Necrozma can only be used in Monotype Psychic teams.
This made me think of something very important. At the start of Gen 7, the current rules were established to align themselves with Monotype, G&F's big brother OM. But that's the thing. Monotype is not an OM anymore. So should we have these rules still in place? Wouldn't having these rules technically make this OM Monotype based instead of OU based? If that is the case, obviously stuff would need to be altered. But currently it isn't, it an OU based OM. So why do we still follow the arbitrary rules set in place? Why not abandon said rules entirely?

You may ask what that would mean for the metagame. Well firstly, Mega that change type can be used on teams that they currently cannot be, such as Mega Altaria on Ho-Oh teams. It would lead to Fire types being allowed on Pdon teams (which quite frankly, is not as big as it seems). It would make Mega Mewtwo X teams not be the kinda bad mono Psychic type teams that they currently are. Basically changes would happen in the meta, and I think at least some discussion can be held on the matter.
 

Ransei

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This made me think of something very important. At the start of Gen 7, the current rules were established to align themselves with Monotype, G&F's big brother OM. But that's the thing. Monotype is not an OM anymore. So should we have these rules still in place? Wouldn't having these rules technically make this OM Monotype based instead of OU based? If that is the case, obviously stuff would need to be altered. But currently it isn't, it an OU based OM. So why do we still follow the arbitrary rules set in place? Why not abandon said rules entirely?

You may ask what that would mean for the metagame. Well firstly, Mega that change type can be used on teams that they currently cannot be, such as Mega Altaria on Ho-Oh teams. It would lead to Fire types being allowed on Pdon teams (which quite frankly, is not as big as it seems). It would make Mega Mewtwo X teams not be the kinda bad mono Psychic type teams that they currently are. Basically changes would happen in the meta, and I think at least some discussion can be held on the matter.
The concept of this metagame is for the Pokemon to follow the types of their slot 1 regardless of whatever form they're in. This is why Mega Altaria on Ho-Oh teams and Mega Gyarados on Rayquaza teams are still a problem. This isn't necessarily full on Monotype based because your followers can have types that don't match up with each other but rather are part of the type matching whoever is in slot 1. Because of this, the rules are still technically OU based despite its similarities with Monotype.
 

Ransei

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I am not 100% sure on how good this set is as I am not the best teambuilder around the block but I figure I might as well start posting sets here every now and then. First I'm gonna start with a fun one I've been placing on teams with Psychic gods.


Tapu Lele @ Terrain Extender / Light Clay
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness
- Reflect
- Light Screen

My intention with this set is to have Tapu Lele do all it can to set up terrain and screens in order to make things much easier for other Psychic-type members of the team. These Pokemon would be able to set up using stat boosting moves then utilize their buffed STAB Psychic-type attacks to do significant damage. Since the main purpose of this Tapu Lele is to set up terrain and screens, it is given max HP in order to help it pull through attacks. Tapu Lele also has a fairly low Defense stat and against this Pokemon I expect more physical moves to be used rather than special, so Tapu Lele was also given maximum Defense with Bold nature. Because of its defensive nature I felt giving Nature's Madness would help in case it was given the chance to slice HP bars in half. Because of Nature's Madness cutting the foe's HP in half each time I've also decided to give it a good attacking move in case it was able to finish a foe off. Moonblast was given since nothing is immune to it, unlike Psyshock and Toxic. It is also given 100% accuracy, enabling it to have no problems hitting. Tapu Lele's Special Attack is decent enough to still tear through Pokemon weak to its STAB Moonblast and can help against Pokemon potentially attempting to use Lele as a set up foddler.
 

G-Luke

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So I slapped some teams together


Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Oblivion Wing
- Knock Off / Heat Wave
- Dark Pulse

Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Spikes

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Protect
- Heavy Slam
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower

Tornadus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- U-turn

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
Careful Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Clear Smog

Landorus-Therian @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 8 HP / 176 Atk / 92 Def / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock


Standard Yveltal team. Yveltal is the kingpin, and is extremely hard to switch into. Dark Pulse is spammable STAB, while Oblivion Wing offers solid secondary STAB that also doubles as recovery. Sucker Punch allows it to revengekill pesky bois, and hits for notable damage thanks to Dark Aura. Knock Off also eases the matchup against a Ho-Oh, Chansey or other special walls while simultaneously crippling switchins that need items. Heat Wave can be ran so its not complete deadweight against Magearna. Choice Scarf Greninja provides very necessary speed control for the team, and is handy in revengekilling GeoXern. It carries Spikes as well, as they wear down Pokemon for Yvel and Landorus-T to break easier. Celes is standard physical wall that does what Celes does. TornadosT really loves that Koko isnt on 60% of all offensive teams, and provides well needed hazard control. Z-Hurricane can also punch a hole when needed. Muk-A is this team's best shot at beating Xern, and the set is credited to a previous user. It is EV'd to take a moonblast + a Geo Moonblast, which it can then proceed to Clear Smog and cripple Xern for the rest of the match. It also has solid Special bulk to compliment Celes. Landorus-T is a solid SR user, and I like this Earth Plate set that provides nuke EQs when needed.




Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Trick Room

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Lunar Dance

Slowking @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Fire Blast
- Psyshock

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Taunt / Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]


Its a TR Team! SD Necrozma-DM is devastating sweeper, and this team is designed to bust open or soften up its checks and allow it to sweep. Trick Room style! Necrozma-DM hits very hard at +2, and with Solganium Z, its Searing Sunrase Smash is just bonkers
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 331-390 (83.3 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Mega Mawile is the usual wallbreaking monstrosity that it is. Nothing much different here. Cressilia is the main TR setter,doing whatever Cress does best. Its also a pretty standard set. I have to give mad props to my guy snake_rattler for the Slowking set. While it had to be tinkered for this particular team, it still carries its spirit. It deals with Toxapex, which is otherwise annoying for the team to face and is the team's secondary TR setter. Colbur allows it shake off a Knock Off and keep coming. Heatran sets rocks and is a general annoyance to face. Choice Scarf Tapu Lele is insurance for when TR is down and u need to revenge stuff. Handily revenge kills Yveltal and Ekiller too, which are dangerous threats.
 
Question here. If Necrozma is used as the god (either forms) and assuming it ultra bursts, can you use psychic and (steel or ghost) or just psychic? I am asking this question because Ultra bursting is kind of similar to mega evolution.
 

Ransei

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Question here. If Necrozma is used as the god (either forms) and assuming it ultra bursts, can you use psychic and (steel or ghost) or just psychic? I am asking this question because Ultra bursting is kind of similar to mega evolution.
Assuming it does Ultra Burst, just Psychic at the moment.
 
Assuming it does Ultra Burst, just Psychic at the moment.
I feel like it should be that you can use the types of the pre-evolved pokemon, given that otherwise you could have a NDM holding the Ultranecrozium Z and be able to have dragon types as well. I think it shouldn’t be just psychic because that defeats the point, restricting teambuilding because of a special circumstance.
 

Ransei

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I feel like it should be that you can use the types of the pre-evolved pokemon, given that otherwise you could have a NDM holding the Ultranecrozium Z and be able to have dragon types as well. I think it shouldn’t be just psychic because that defeats the point, restricting teambuilding because of a special circumstance.
Ah but allowing a team of dragons in with Dusk Mane can defeat the metagame's purpose. What if you give NDM an Ultranecrozium Z and don't ultra burst it? Something will be left out.
 
Ah but allowing a team of dragons in with Dusk Mane can defeat the metagame's purpose. What if you give NDM an Ultranecrozium Z and don't ultra burst it? Something will be left out.
I mentioned that. I said that you shouldn’t allow the dragon typing but should allow the steel, since that’s what it is at the start.
 

Ransei

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I mentioned that. I said that you shouldn’t allow the dragon typing but should allow the steel, since that’s what it is at the start.
Wanted to type this out as well but I wasn't exactly sure whether you wanted the steel-types but, given that Dusk Mane loses Steel-type upon Ultra Burst, its Steel-type followers will no longer seem like followers as they now have no type to match up with their supposed god. This not only ruins the concept but makes it unfair for other Pokemon who can't transform because unlike the ones who can Pokemon would always have to match their type.

This works the same way with Mega Evolved Pokemon taking up the god slot, ie: Mega Aggron
 
Wanted to type this out as well but I wasn't exactly sure whether you wanted the steel-types but, given that Dusk Mane loses Steel-type upon Ultra Burst, its Steel-type followers will no longer seem like followers as they now have no type to match up with their supposed god. This not only ruins the concept but makes it unfair for other Pokemon who can't transform because unlike the ones who can Pokemon would always have to match their type.
It makes it unfair on NDM because it’s a dual type and has to stick with only one type because it can change. Sorry, but what’s the rule in mega evolution, because that should apply to this.
 

Ransei

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It makes it unfair on NDM because it’s a dual type and has to stick with only one type because it can change. Sorry, but what’s the rule in mega evolution, because that should apply to this.
Dusk Mane will be able to have followers of both types if it's just a normal Dusk Mane without Ultracrozium Z, therefore it's not really unfair for it. Also, I edited the previous post explaining that mega evolution worked the same way before I applied this limit.
 

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