Gone Fishin' [OU]

[Friar]

Hello Smogon, I have another RMT here. It is for OU play and has been my most successful OU team. The team gets its name because it relies on the opponent making crucial mistakes that allow me to win. Seems like a tough way to win right? Well, I am pushing Lures to their max with this team. The idea that a Pokemon could, on a regular basis, make my opponent switch in a pokemon, only to get OHKO'd/crippled really excited me enough to make this team. I am using lures to open up sweeps for my other Pokemon, and it has proven to be very effective. The team peaked at #9 on the ladder, with a rating of about 1630.

The Team:

0 Stealth Rock Weak
4 Affected by Spikes
0 Affected by Toxic Spikes

----------------------------------------------------

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Clear Body
Adamant
252 HP/236 Attack/12 Def/8 Speed

Meteor Mash
Bullet Punch
Explosion
Stealth Rock

In a lead, I am looking for something that matches up well against the vast majority of leads, which is why I chose Metagross. He is almost always able to get up Stealth Rock turn 1, and will not be going down without a fight because its hitting from a whopping 401 attack stat. This moveset also allows me to beat down any Suicide lead, which is helpful because they dont get to wear early holes into my team. Double Bullet Punches are a good revenging measure for my fairly slow team. I also dislike blowing away a Dragon resist, what with Draco Meteor or Outrage (maybe both!) being standard on every other Pokemon in the metagame.

-----------------------------------------------------

Latias @ Choice Specs
Levitate
Timid
4 HP/252 Sp. Attack/252 Speed

Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Surf
Trick

Latias is my favorite pokemon to use in OU, and Specs is her best set in my opinion. She is one of the only pokemon that can kill or cripple her own counters to the point that they are not fit to counter her anymore. Standard Scizor and Tyranitar are 2HKO'd by Surf, and Metagross can be with a tad bit of prior damage (plus its usually a lead). Blissey gets crippled by Trick, and suddenly becomes Pursuit bait for Scizor, not counting how ineffective a Choiced wall is. As Latias' counters can sometimes be dealt with by herself and many times through Jirachi, matches turn into a Latias Meteor fest as the opponent runs out of Steels. Latias' base 110 Speed puts her ahead of enough threats that I dont have to bring in Scizor every other turn. Lategame stat boosters are usually given Specs to stop any threat they once posed. She is one of my two fire resists, which I really need as my team is super weak to Fire.

-----------------------------------------------------

Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
Careful
252 HP/40 Def/216 Sp. Def

Rest
Sleep Talk
Waterfall
Curse

Swampert replaces Suicune because of the increased longevity and increased countering Swampert provides. He also finally gives me a good switch into Rotom-A, which I had really lacked up to this point. While I do not pose an offensive threat immediately, I can pose a huge threat if I can get up a few Curses. Grass attacks are very rare in OU (luckily), giving Swampert a great chance to set up in peace. If my lure fails, I can at least count on Swampert to counter most of Jirachi's counters throughout the battle because of RestTalk. This also gives me a handy status absorber, especially useful against threats such as Breloom.

------------------------------------------------------

Scizor @ Choice Band
Technician
Adamant
248 HP/252 Attack/8 Speed

Bullet Punch
U Turn
SuperPower
Pursuit

Obligatory CB Scizor. He is my main revenge killer as the priority makes up for my teams general lack of speed. His resistances to Dark and Ghost are especially welcome, as Rotom and Latias do not like those attacks one bit. I generally just U Turn through the early game to build up damage on his counters. The rest of my team is actually very adept at killing Scizor counters so Scizor actually gets lots of late game sweeps. Pursuit is used on Life Orb/Specs Latias no questions asked. She hits my team way too hard. SuperPower's main use is against CurseLax, but every once in a while I can predict the Heatran/Magnezone switch in. Scizor earns his spot for keeping most of the metagame in check with Bullet Punch as well as being able to capitalize on my teams abilty to destroy its counters.

-------------------------------------------------------

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Levitate
Bold
252 HP/104 Def/152 Sp. Attack

Substitute
Will O Wisp
Shadow Ball
HP Ground

As much as I hate facing an enemy Rotom appliance, I love using them myself. Originally I had a Sub/Charge Beam appliance here, but this variant of Sub Rotom is just too good. I stole the set from Jiovaine11's RMT, and it was off to the races ever since. Popular pokemon such as Metagross, Jirachi, and Scizor give Rotom a lot of free subs, and I can act accordingly to the switch in. Will O Wisp cripples physical attackers that try to switch in, if it actually decides to hit (worst move in the game!). Rotom tends to draw Latias and stuff like Gengar in, which Shadow Ball deals with nicely, or at least takes a big chunk out. Shadow Ball also serves as excellent neutral STAB, as many things that resist Shadow Ball hate getting burned. Rotom-C was chosen for a few reasons. First, I can easily scare off Swampert in a lead position, giving me early control in the match safely behind my sub. Secondly, Heatran and Magnezone just love to switch into this. This makes Rotom-C one if the best lures for pokemon that give half of my team immense trouble. I dropped Discharge from Jiovaine11's team in favor of HP Ground. Rotom kills off Heatran and Magnezone leaving my team, and Jirachi especially, free to sweep. Great typing and a great set makes Rotom one of the most successful pokemon on the team.

---------------------------------------------------------

Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Serene Grace
Hasty
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Sp. Attack

Iron Head
Ice Punch
Fire Punch
Grass Knot

Please Smogon, continue using ScarfRachi, my team loves you for it. TAY's Physical based Mix Jirachi is the focus of the team, ironic how the star of the team... is a star! Once my lures have eliminated her counters (there arent many), Jirachi comes in and starts her sweeping. She usually takes out two or three pokemon before my opponent figures out what hes up against. The scenario usually goes something like this. Rotom kills Heatran, then as soon as I can i bring in Jirachi. I try to bluff Scarf as much as possible, for instance bringing him in against a Latias (even though I usually can beat them one on one anyway). Opponent switches in Scizor on my Iron Head (I try to look like scarf as much as possible). Then I Fire Punch them away. The opponent brings back in Latias because I'm not scarfed and apparently dont have Ice Punch. But I do and I take a bit of damage but take Latias out in the process. By this point the opponent is mad and has seen three moves, and assumes the last is Thunder Punch so he brings in his Swampert. Grass Knot takes it out after a bit of prior damage. That is the beauty of this set. Serene Grace is also good to steal a win when I was sure to lose. Jirachi is also my check to all Lucarios. Expert Belt gives me enough power while also bluffing scarf. For reference I OHKO Salamence after SR through Intimidate. What more could you ask for? Jirachi often sweeps late game, but can also serve as a midgame wall breaker that puts the opponent too far behind to ever hope of winning. Also a monster against Stall if Rotom and Gyarados are down (Both are often killed through SR + Repeated U Turns). Hasty was chosen over Naive because I wanted to be able to beat Latias one on one and I have Metagross with high defense to take Outrages as well as Scizor to nip most dragons in the bud with Bullet Punch. Max Speed is absolutely necessary to bluff scarf against as many threats as possible.

Well that's the team. I think the concept of lures is underutilized in competitive play and I hope this makes you think about incorporating a lure into your team.

Team Building Process:

I knew I wanted to base a team around Physically Based Mix Jirachi, because it is good at any point in the game.

Then I wanted to open up a sweep for him. So I decided to use a lure Rotom with HP Ground. Substitute Rotom is very annoying, and Substitute simplifies prediction in crippling counters.

From here, I knew my team lacked a hard hitter. SpecsLatias really swamps the metagame with its hugely powerful
moves.

I placed CB Scizor at this point, as his powerful Bullet Punch made up for the lack of speed on the team.

Many threats threatened me at this point. However, Suicune shut most of them down or at least forced them to Outrage (aka Kingdra). It is an underrated sweeper as well.

Lastly, I just wanted a reliable lead, Metagross fit the bill perfectly.

Threat List:

Offensive Threats:

Aerodactyl: 2HKO'd by Metagross.

Alakazam: My teams can take him on and tear into his weak defense.

Azelf: 2HKO'd by Metagross, non lead ones are a little problematic but can be double Bullet Punched away

Breloom: I lack a sleep absorber :( So Breloom can be problematic in that if takes one of my people out of the game with Spore. After that has happened I can U Turn away the sub with Scizor and go to Rotom on the Focus Punch and start Shadow Balling.

Dragonite: Most everything has something it can do to 'nite to beat it down or cripple it.

Dugtrio: Only traps Jirachi really, otherwise dead weight against my team.

Electivire: Rotom and Latias, depending on the set.

Empoleon: Suicune, double Bullet Punch once i break the last sub.

Flygon: Scizor, Latias, Suicune, and Rotom are all good choices against Flygon.

Gengar: Both Metagross and Scizor can check a Gengar.

Gyarados: Suicune mainly, Rotom can take a hit and burn it, Latias can take a hit and Draco Meteor.

Heatran: Lured and OHKO'd after SR by Rotom, Latias and Suicune if it doesnt fall for my ploy.

Heracross: Rotom and prediction.

Infernape: Latias (I hate U Turn ones)

Jirachi: CM ones get beat down by my physical hitters before it can do much damage. Scarf ones are played around.

Jolteon: Specs is played around, lots of stuff and take a hit and KO

Kingdra: Suicune mainly. My steels can take a shot can do big damage, and Rotom can burn or attack it.

Latias: Metagross, Scizor, and Jirachi. Latias outspeeds ones with HP Fire.

Lucario: Suicune and Jirachi. In a pinch, double Bullet Punches.

Machamp: Ugh, sub ones are sooooo annoying. Rotom can burn those after taking a big hit. Latias can blast it.

Magnezone: Rotom mostly, i guess Metagross might take a shot and EQ.

Mamoswine: Rotom and Scizor revenge killing.

Metagross: Sub fodder for Rotom. Scizor can take a hit and do big damage with U Turn, as can my own Metagross with EQ.

Rhyperior: Rotom, Suicune, double Bullet Punches, Jirachi can flinch it to death or Grass Knot.

Salamence: Latias outspeeds, Scizor Bullet Punch, sometimes switched into Rotom expecting Leaf Storm, and gets burned.

Scizor: 2HKOd by Latias, +1 Suicune smacks it around, Rotom soaks up most of its hits.

Starmie: Latias and Scizor can take a hit and KO. It likes to switch in on Suicune, and at +1 I usually win the exchange.

Suicune: Trick/Draco Meteor, my own Suicune can set up on it if it lacks Roar.

Togekiss: Rotom mostly, i guess Metagross and Scizor could deal with it also.

Tyranitar: 2HKO'd by Latias, burned by Rotom when it switches in, double Bullet Punches get around Babiri Tar.

Weavile: Metagross and Scizor

Yanmega: Rotom and Scizor. I guess Gross can hit it pretty hard also.

Defensive Threats:

Blissey: Rotom scouts the Blissey, then I can hopefully Pursuit it away. Latias can Trick to cripple it. I have some hard Physical hitters if it wants to stay in.

Bronzong: Rotom laughs at it, Suicune sets up (watch out for Explosion), Scizor U Turns for huge damage.

Celebi: Lured by Suicune who can KO it with some prior damage, Latias can blast it away, Rotom can Shadow ball it.

Cresselia: Scizor and Rotom mostly. In a pinch I'll have Latias Trick Specs.

Rotom: My own Rotom can take it from behind a sub, Latias blasts it.

Donphan: Rotom laughs at it, Suicune can maul it as can Latias.

Forretress: Rotom laughs at it as does Suicune. JIrachi lures it and 2HKOs with Fire Punch.

Gliscor: Rotom laughs, Latias Surfs or Meteors, Suicune owns it, Jirachi can Ice Punch a weakened one.

Hippowdon: Rotom can burn it, Jirachi Grass Knot, Latias and Suicune hit it hard on iot weaker defense.

Skarmory: Rotom and Suicune.

Snorlax: Scizor. Rotom can burn a non Rest one.

Suicune: My own Suicune sets up, Latias Tricks or Meteors, Rotom has TBolt.

Swampert: Rotom laughs (unless it Roars), Latias blasts it, Suicune hits it hard, Jirachi Grass Knot.

Tentacruel: Rotom, Metagross, Latias can blast it or Trick it. Suicune also set up on it.

Vaporeon: Latias, Suicune, Rotom.

Zapdos: Latias, Rotom can burn stall it (and laugh at it because Rotom is just a better Zapdos!)

 

[Bad Ass]

hey friar, this is a cool team. lures are one of the best concepts in pokemon. i love the way you are trying to utilize then to their fullest potential, and this is a very very cool team. it does have some flaws though, and here i'll see if i can help and fix the problematic areas. the first big thing that irritates me is the total lack of recovery on the team. on hyper offensive teams, this is just fine, but you are utilizng bulky pokemon that can take hits and dish them out. they can't take many hits if they retain all the damage they took. stuff like heatran can spam fire blast to weaken up cune and latias, zone can thunderbolt spam to weaken up his resists, and there isnt a thing you can do about it. the way i see it, there are two solutions. crocune or crolatias. my preference here would be crocune, as he can take repeated beatings from the likes of mixmence, gyarados, heatran, etc. i realize this opens you up to gyarados and kingdra an eensy weensy bit, but between the damage they takes from surf + possible life orb and stealth rock recoil, scizor shouldn't have a hard time picking off their remaining health. kingdra is definitely least threatening, as a lot of your team can severely dent or kill him without being ohkoed. crocune helps you maintain a solid defense and offense at the same time. another weapon against stall is also quite helpful as well, as (s)he can stall blissey out of softboiled with pressure quite easily. the standard bold max/max with surf/calm mind/rest/sleep talk will suffice to your needs.

nice team bud, good luck in the future!

 

[joshe]

I'd like you to try putting a Lum berry on Metagross, and possibly Explosion over Earthquake. The reason behind this is, i can see you having trouble against teams that lead with Roserade and Smeargle. If roserade gets toxic spikes up, and important member of your team, suicune, suddenly becomes less useful, and threats like Gyarados and Empoleon will run through this team. And your team doesn't like Spikes that much either, while with Lum berry, you can Ko with the combination of Meteor Mash, activating their focus sash, and then picking them off with Bullet Punch. Most if not every other lead that threatens metagross such as Infernape, Heatran, and Hippowdon is taken care of by Latias anyway, so the change would be beneficial. Explosion helps you get rid of some poor switch in, although watch out for rotoms.

Also, this is a little personal, but i'd love a slightly bulkier suicune, so it can take those stone edges better. I'm not saying go to crocune or w.e, but I'd take a little from Special Attack if you want to experiment a little, as you don't need all that attacking power right away.

Good Luck.

 

[Friar]

Thanks for the responses guys!

Bad Ass: I'll certainly test Crocune. i think this leaves a little more open to water types, but having something with some longevity could really help me.

Joshe: Good idea, I have Ape and Heatran locked down, so Lum seems to be the better choice. I hate Smeargle leads especially :/ I still hate blowing up a good Dragon resist like Metagross so I think I'll keep Earthquake.

 

[Blue_Tornado]

Hmm, this is a pretty good team Friar, well done.

0 Stealth Rock Weak
4 Affected by Spikes
1 Affected by Toxic Spikes

This is actually the only flaw I can see. With 4 grounded pokemon and no recovery at all, this team will fail against a good opponent using stall. Foretress and Skarmory (especially SpD variants) can easily set-up spikes against Rotom-C, Scizor and Latias locked into DM/Dragon Pulse, and then it will be very hard to switch - especailly with the problems I noted beforehand. So I would consider a few changes: (You can choose any you like)

To get rid of hazards:

~Change Substitute/WoW on Rotom-C into Discharge/Thunderbolt/Charge Beam to combat Skarmory and Forretress much better, as well as countering Gyarados, which is another plus.
~Try to fit a Spinner into your team. Maybe Starmie > Suicune or Forretress > Metagross. These will get rid of troublesome layers of spikes. Starmie gives you a fast hitter that your team was somewhat lacking, while Forretress can set-up TSpikes for Rotom-C to abuse with Substitute.

Now, I see another problem: SubTran. It can Sub up on the switch to Suicune/Latias and Toxic away. I was also thinking of adding wish support to the team, as like I said, spikes cam be cruel to most of your pokemon. A pokemon that stops both is Blissey:

Blissey @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
Calm | 252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Seismic Toss / Wish / Protect / Ice Beam

Not your standard Blissey, but it works. The problem is finding her a spot in your team. Tbh, you obviously know your team more than I do, so consider swapping your most expandable pokemon with her, as she can be a great help. Another option is Vaporeon instead of Suicune or a supportive Laitas instead of your Specs'ed Latias, but they are both sitting ducks when Heatran Toxic's them.

This is all I see for now. This is a good team.

Good luck!

 

[franky]

Problems:

SubTran

How to fix:

Hey, congrats on the high rating, and really great team. Jirachi is a beast mid and late-game so I applaud you on working around it. Now for the issue, I see a bit off SubTran issue here. Heatran can come in on both Scizor (bar U-turn) and Jirachi. How you really just ever considered Hidden Power Ground? It is a good alternative to lessen the chance of Tran going for a Sub. Since Grass Knot mainly hits Swampert hard, it isn't a big threat because it lacks recovery and by the time you bring it out, it is significantly weakened from U-turns and such. Hidden Power Ground will KO Naive Train most of the time. Other than that, I dont want to change any pokes cause this is already great. Just becareful when using Scizor's attacks, lean towards U-turn more to avoid Tran from using Sub. gl dude.

 

[Flashstorm1]

All heil Friar! (No, not really.)

Anyways, it's safe to say that you have a fairly standard bulky offense team here, and it's relatively well constructed from what I can tell. However, there are a few problematic Pokémon which I feel need to be addressed. Mainly, I feel that Rotom-A is capable of giving your team a lot of trouble, as a set consisting of Substitute / Will-O-Wisp / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball is capable of crippling everything on your team. You state that Latias and your own Rotom-C are your primary response to Rotom-A, but this is not a safe route to go down, as both are weak to Shadow Ball and will allow Heatran to have a much easier time against your team.

Currently, I feel that Suicune is the most replaceable Pokémon on your team. The fast paced offensive metagame that OU currently runs on makes Suicune very ineffective against Pokémon like opposing SpecsLatias, etc., and currently, I don't think luring in Water-types is as necessary as you stated.

As such, I feel that Suicune can be replaced with the following Pokemon set:

Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent | 252 HP / 216 SpD / 40 Def
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
Curse / Waterfall / Rest / Sleep Talk

I think running Swampert over Suicune will help out your team better. Currently, you state that Fire-type attacks are the biggest problem to your team, but I feel Swampert is your best bet as anything to deal with Heatran and the like. Swampert also gives your team a "100%" counter to Rotom-A, which you desperately need. Needless to say, Jirachi also lures in a lot of Swampert's counters, like Latias and Salamence.

If you decide to replace Suicune with Swampert, I feel other changes will also need to be made to your team.

First, Rotom-A is going to need Thunderbolt over HP Ground to prevent yourself from getting completely swept by Dragon Dance Gyarados. You state that HP Ground was to lure in Heatran, but with Swampert countering it pretty well, I don't think it will be as of much use.

As Joshe suggested, another thing you can do is give Metagross Lum Berry over Occa Berry. I don't think that Infernape is as trouble, as, say, lead Smeargle and Roserade currently are.

Overall, very nice team here. Good luck!

 

[Friar]

Thanks for the rates! On some of the suggestions:

I have tried both Cro-Waters (Swampert and Suicune) and am really liking the Rotom-A coverage, so I think I'll keep CursePert.

Lum Berry Metagross is overall a better pick.

I'm keeping Jirachis and Rotoms movesets the same. I find these sets to be most effective, and in a bit of playtesting I can still burn Gyara or check it with Latias.

I'll update my OP to reflect these changes.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

First of all, I don't see any possible way you dont get 6-0'd by an Empoleon. I replayed the scenario in my head roughly 2 and a half times, and there's just no logical, non in-game hacking way you don't get 6-0'd.

There also just happens to be a matter of a DDGyarados weakness as well. You can bluff Rotom coming in as it DD's, but as you attempt to burn the switch to Tyranitar, those burnt Pursuits will still take 25% from you if you don't switch, and with Sandstorm negating Leftovers, the next time Gyarados comes in and DD's, it will OHKO you. And therefore sweep your team 6-0'. Once again no other way around it.

Now, I could get into the whole "Magnezone traps and kill Scizor thing" which leads to Salamence and CMLati utterly raping your team, but I suppose that's going too far to point out every weakness you have. But btw, if Scizor gets trapped, DDMence and Latias are going to 6-0 your team (though with the CMLati part, this depends if Metagross is dead, if not, they'll most likely 5-0 your team instead.)

Now honestly, I don't get how Jirachi fits into all this. You say it's the start of the show but, it's main counters, such as Heatran, and Rotom, are stopped cold by Swampert, and what are you going to do once Swampert gets in? You're going to start Cursing. So do we really need your false propoganda bullshit about Jirachi being the star?

Now with the weaknesses of Empoleon, Gyarados, and Salamence, we can easily just eliminate all 3 via revenge killing. Wait a second...the biggest fix to check everything was just.....adding a Choice Scarf on Jirachi? o_O

Though if you decided to follow my Magnezone+then get raped method of theory to prove me wrong......you can just add a Vaporeon. It doesn't get OHKO, is immune to 2 of those main STAB moves and send Wishes all around. Dandy.