It depends on what kind of core it is, offensive cores are geared towards having flawless or near-flawless coverage with the combination of (STAB)moves the pokemon making up the core carry. A defensive core, as you mentioned is a set of pokemon that cover each other's weaknesses and reliably can take hits for each other. When building a defensive core, you not only have to think of the individual types, but also of the attacking pokemon themselves and the popular coverage options they carry (like earthquake+stone edge, ice beam+thunderbolt, fighting-move+ghost-move, etc.) Can your core reliably take on talonflame? or Greninja? or garchomp? Those are probably the most important kind of questions to ask, together with if your team can absorb status and can take on setup sweepers. It's impossible to cover and foresee everything, but a defensive core should be able to take on most trouble that other teams can cause to you.
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- Thread starter GrislyBear
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Gyarados does get Dragon Tail right? With AV he could do a pretty good shuffle set:
~ Dragon Tail
~ Waterfall
~ Ice Fang
~ Earthquake
Especially considering you're pairing him with Ferrothorn. I think in that situation though your third core would probably be Gengar or Aegislash. I would prefer SubGar to spread Will-O-Wisp around. Add into that a late game cleaner like Talonflame and a good support 'mon like Slyveon for Wish/ Heal Bell support and a solid Special Wall and that's already a pretty solid team.
My main core for Rain is my tailored Kyube set (56 HP, 76 Attack, 138 SP.Atk, 240 Speed), and Ferrothorn with Scarf-Wallbreaker Thundurus-T. My only problem is that with Ferrothorn I won't have a spinner, but I will have T-Wave support mitigating the need for a Scarf user. Should I ditch Thundy and add LO Lati@s as a defogger? Or use Excadrill as my Spinner/hazards layer?
I made a post on this in the underrated sets a long time ago. I run Waterfall, Ice Fang, Earthquake, Dragontail
With Intimidate, Max HP, half on def and rest on attack with an adamant nature + assault vest this Gyarados essentially checks most of the offensive Meta
EV spread:252 HP, 150 Def, Rest Attack
Nature:Adamant
Ability: Intimidate
Item:Assault Vest
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Dragontail
Pokemon that this set counters include: Talonflame, Greninja, Aegislash (three most used pokes right there), Mega Lucario, Charizard X and Charizard Y, Garchomp, Dragonite, Infernape......eh should i keep going?
This is all due to my experience. I've countered all these pokemon flawlessly with this set. Paired with Ferrothorn and Leech Seed support the core has been damn near unbreakable defensively
Hmm... I'll really think about it. I'm not too fond of Infernape being the only real sweeper in the core, but this could prove to be an interesting Gyarados set. I'll try it!
Idk if anyone has brought this up yet, but Talonflame and Gastodon work very well together. I'm not sure if it would be considered a core but Gastrodon is immune to 2 of Talonflames weaknesses and resists Rock while Talonflame is 4x resistant to Grass attacks. It's also the start of a FWG core if you'd like and M-Venesaur or Ferrothorn would be good options.
Talonflame @ Salac Berry
Gale Wings
Adamant 194 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Acrobatics
-Flare Blitz
-Natural Gift
(If you'd like to see the reasoning behind this set, check out the Creative Set thread or the Talonflame thread)
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Bold 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
-Scald
-Earth Power
-Toxic
-Recover
Talonflame @ Salac Berry
Gale Wings
Adamant 194 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 60 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Acrobatics
-Flare Blitz
-Natural Gift
(If you'd like to see the reasoning behind this set, check out the Creative Set thread or the Talonflame thread)
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Bold 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
-Scald
-Earth Power
-Toxic
-Recover
Has anybody tried an Entei/Zard/Dugtrio/Mamoswine core?
Banded Sacred Fires + Drought boosted Fire Blasts terrorizes most teams, with dugtrio taking care of most revenge killers/Flash Fire switch-ins. Mamoswine slays every dragon that tries to stand on their way.
Put in a defogger/spinner + defensive pivot and the team is complete.
Banded Sacred Fires + Drought boosted Fire Blasts terrorizes most teams, with dugtrio taking care of most revenge killers/Flash Fire switch-ins. Mamoswine slays every dragon that tries to stand on their way.
Put in a defogger/spinner + defensive pivot and the team is complete.
Rotom-H @Chesto Berry
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
-Overheat
-Volt Switch
-Will-o-wisp
-Rest
Scizor Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Adamant Nature
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Night Slash
This plus any Dragon of choice is absolutely deadly. Another good choice would be Gastrodon, or possibly Greninja, but it's just not bulky enough to my liking. I use this with my Garchomp and it works wonders. Something to try out, definitely.
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
-Overheat
-Volt Switch
-Will-o-wisp
-Rest
Scizor Choice Band
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Adamant Nature
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Night Slash
This plus any Dragon of choice is absolutely deadly. Another good choice would be Gastrodon, or possibly Greninja, but it's just not bulky enough to my liking. I use this with my Garchomp and it works wonders. Something to try out, definitely.
Genesect @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
EVs: 232 Hp / 56 SpAtk / 220 Spe
Calm
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Mega Venusaur
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Quiet
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
Talonflame @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-Turn
I realize it's basically a team, but it has great synergy Rotom-W and Genesect covering each other, MegaSaur stopping opposing Rotom, Aegislash, Heatran. Talonflame cleaning up.
I just can't find 2 that really complete this team, but these four play really well.
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Hasty
- U-Turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
EVs: 232 Hp / 56 SpAtk / 220 Spe
Calm
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Mega Venusaur
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Quiet
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Earthquake
Talonflame @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-Turn
I realize it's basically a team, but it has great synergy Rotom-W and Genesect covering each other, MegaSaur stopping opposing Rotom, Aegislash, Heatran. Talonflame cleaning up.
I just can't find 2 that really complete this team, but these four play really well.
I think I got something going with this core. What do you guys think?
WASH RIPPER (Venusaur) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll => Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- (EDITED) Synthesis
- Leech Seed
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Grass
- Stealth Rock
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory
Okay, I know there's a Heatran / MegaSaur core on this thread somewhere, but I don't care. These two have nearly perfect synergy with each other, Heatran taking Flying and Psychic-type attacks for MegaSaur, while MegaSaur can switch in to Water and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Heatran, and is only neutral to Ground-type attacks. Mega Venusaur is more Specially Defensive so it can take on threats like Rotom-W easier. Greninja can easily be thrown into this core, as it's pre-Protean weaknesses are covered by the other two. Gotta love an Offensive Stealth Rock Heatran, since more OHKOes and 2HKOes can be secured with Rocks up. Instead of the common U-turn or Grass Knot, I run Extrasensory on this Greninja, as it takes out two big threats that give this core trouble, Tentacruel, and opposing MegaSaur.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 187-221 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 187-221 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I do realize that these three are all walled by Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey, but Assault Vest Conkeldurr deals with those three.
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: (EDITED) 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Conkeldurr is more than willing to switch in on a status move, gain a Guts boost from it, and then proceeded to smash the three Special Walls with its powerful physical attacks. With Guts, Blissey is OHKOed by Drain Punch, while Goodra and Chansey are 2HKOed by it. In addition, its weaknesses are covered by Heatran, which allows it to fit into the core even easier.
WASH RIPPER (Venusaur) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll => Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- (EDITED) Synthesis
- Leech Seed
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Grass
- Stealth Rock
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory
Okay, I know there's a Heatran / MegaSaur core on this thread somewhere, but I don't care. These two have nearly perfect synergy with each other, Heatran taking Flying and Psychic-type attacks for MegaSaur, while MegaSaur can switch in to Water and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Heatran, and is only neutral to Ground-type attacks. Mega Venusaur is more Specially Defensive so it can take on threats like Rotom-W easier. Greninja can easily be thrown into this core, as it's pre-Protean weaknesses are covered by the other two. Gotta love an Offensive Stealth Rock Heatran, since more OHKOes and 2HKOes can be secured with Rocks up. Instead of the common U-turn or Grass Knot, I run Extrasensory on this Greninja, as it takes out two big threats that give this core trouble, Tentacruel, and opposing MegaSaur.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 187-221 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 187-221 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I do realize that these three are all walled by Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey, but Assault Vest Conkeldurr deals with those three.
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: (EDITED) 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Conkeldurr is more than willing to switch in on a status move, gain a Guts boost from it, and then proceeded to smash the three Special Walls with its powerful physical attacks. With Guts, Blissey is OHKOed by Drain Punch, while Goodra and Chansey are 2HKOed by it. In addition, its weaknesses are covered by Heatran, which allows it to fit into the core even easier.
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Pretty nice core here. From the looks of it I would suggest running Stealth Rock over Flash Cannon since from the looks of it you will be forcing a lot of switches. It might also be just me but I would rather run Synthesis over Sleep Powder to provide more reliable recovery since MegaVenu is your only stop to certain threats like Azumarill, and the fact that Sleep Powder can be seriously unforgiving if you miss. Not to mention sending in MegaSaur can cause many pokemon to switch out/VolTurn leaving you a chance to Synthesis.I think I got something going with this core. What do you guys think?
WASH RIPPER (Venusaur) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll => Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power Grass
- Stealth Rock / Flash Cannon
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Extrasensory / Grass Knot
Okay, I know there's a Heatran / MegaSaur core on this thread somewhere, but I don't care. These two have nearly perfect synergy with each other, Heatran taking Flying and Psychic-type attacks for MegaSaur, while MegaSaur can switch in to Water and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Heatran, and is only neutral to Ground-type attacks. Mega Venusaur is more Specially Defensive so it can take on threats like Rotom-W easier. Greninja can easily be thrown into this core, as it's pre-Protean weaknesses are covered by the other two. Offensive Heatran is still a nice Pokemon this gen, but I'm not sure if I should run Flash Cannon just for Fairies, seeing as Stealth Rock is important for securing OHKOes, as well as MegaSaur running Sludge Bomb. Extrasensory is the better coverage move over Grass Knot on Greninja, as it smacks opposing Mega Venusaur and Tentacruel very hard.
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tentacruel: 187-221 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 187-221 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Stealth Rock isn't really a factor for Tentacruel, seeing as it usually never runs max Special Defense. I do realize that these three are all walled by Goodra, Chansey, and Blissey, but Assault Vest Conkeldurr deals with those three.
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
Conkeldurr is more than willing to switch in on a status move, gain a Guts boost from it, and then proceeded to smash the Special Walls with its attacks. With Guts, Blissey is OHKOed by Drain Punch, while Goodra and Chansey are 2HKOed by it. In addition, its weaknesses are covered by Heatran, which is another plus.
Flare Blitz told me to say hi
Drifblim @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
IVs: 29 Spe
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Stockpile / Calm Mind
Mega-Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Crunch / Ice Punch
Drifblim: Substitute on anything with 80+ Base Speed and an SE attack, then get Weakness Policy boost and pass to Lucario.
Lucario: Sweep.
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
IVs: 29 Spe
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Stockpile / Calm Mind
Mega-Lucario @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Crunch / Ice Punch
Drifblim: Substitute on anything with 80+ Base Speed and an SE attack, then get Weakness Policy boost and pass to Lucario.
Lucario: Sweep.
Zoroark+Gengar
They cover each others weaknesses
Zoroark
-fighting
-bug
-fairy
Gengar
-ghost
-psychic
-dark
They cover each others weaknesses
Zoroark
-fighting
-bug
-fairy
Gengar
-ghost
-psychic
-dark
Garchomp told me to say hi.
Or any pokemon with a quad resist to fire, really.
Yes but that's Type synergy.. To have a complete core not only you need to have a good synergy withing your team but you also need your Pokemon to be capable of taking hits and Zoroark and Gengar are not really known for their defensive capabilities..
I suppose you make a valid point. (Ugh, I need to get my Venusaur up to Level 53. DX) Sleep Powder did help me keep a Mega Mawile from setting up, but it really has little use due to the Sleep Nerf.
EDIT: Great, now I need to get a new HP Grass Heatran, seeing as I can't reteach it Stealth Rock.
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But due to the illusion ability you can play sone mind games and live 1 turn longer than you usually would because the opponent woud hit it wish a super effective move and it would actually be not very effective.
How about Dragon Tail Goodra and Stealth Rocks Skarmory? Perfectly covering each other.
Mega Venusuar + Tyranitar + Unaware Quagsire is pretty decent.
I just came across a Mega Venusuar, Tyranitar and Mew core on Showdown that, for my WIP team I threw together for fun this morning, was really solid.
Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Ghost] / Icy Wind
- Surf
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Rock Polish
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Focus Blast
- Psychic / Focus Blast
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Swords Dance / Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Close Combat
- Quick Attack
This has been something that I've been using for a little while and I thought I might share it.
Keldeo and Landorus are the main reason I decided to try this out because these monsters shouldn't be in UU (more so Landorus but still). Both are great wall breakers with Landorus's Earth Power being one of the most powerful attacks in the meta and Keldeo being able to be mixed fighter without actually being mixed. I added on Mega-Pinsir because the only pokes who gives these two real trouble is Mega-Venusaur and special walls that resist fighting.
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I can understand Keldeo being UU because of it's movepool, (C'mon, no Ice Beam?) but Lando was Uber last Gen. Stupid usage charts. I like the idea of the core here. MegaSaur, one of the most intimidating Pokemon in the tier, is taken down by good ol' Pinsir. Though, looking at it, my Greninja set could wreck this core, seeing as a +1 Quick Attack won't OHKO, and Greninja in turn just outspeeds everything else and clears it away with Ice Beam or Extrasensory. (For Keldeo)
Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Surf
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Rock Polish
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Focus Blast
- Psychic / Focus Blast
Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Swords Dance / Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Close Combat
- Quick Attack
This has been something that I've been using for a little while and I thought I might share it.
Keldeo and Landorus are the main reason I decided to try this out because these monsters shouldn't be in UU (more so Landorus but still). Both are great wall breakers with Landorus's Earth Power being one of the most powerful attacks in the meta and Keldeo being able to be mixed fighter without actually being mixed. I added on Mega-Pinsir because the only pokes who gives these two real trouble is Mega-Venusaur and special walls that resist fighting.
I still say that Keldeo deserves to be in OU over some other pokes (lookin' at you Infernape) but at least UU currently has Celebi and Jellicent to manage it.
I don't really face alot of Greninja's with Extrasensory, most carry just the basic set. And I usually add AV T-tar to support this core but I guess I should have mentioned that in the original post.
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