Pokémon Goodra [REVAMP]

[goodgame124]

Can someone please explain to me why you would ever run a -speed nature on Goomy (or any pokemon in general) aside from Trick room teams or pokes that use gyro ball? 80 base speed is not terrible so why would you run a sassy nature? Wouldn't a calm or bold nature be preferable depending on what you want to invest EVs in?

 

[pokelover32]

Can someone please explain to me why you would ever run a -speed nature on Goomy (or any pokemon in general) aside from Trick room teams or pokes that use gyro ball? 80 base speed is not terrible so why would you run a sassy nature? Wouldn't a calm or bold nature be preferable depending on what you want to invest EVs in?

It has one use; Mixed attackers that need bulk. You can't take from offenses ever, and a low defense is a bad idea, so begone with speed

 

[goodgame124]

It has one use; Mixed attackers that need bulk. You can't take from offenses ever, and a low defense is a bad idea, so begone with speed

Right, I forgot about that. But that still doesnt make sense why the beginning post suggests a Sassy nature. Kind of weird to even consider it

 

[Thorhammer]

Two questions:
Is everyone just running max HP/max (Sp)Def? Since this thing doesn't get a 50% recover move I was thinking speed might be useful so that you don't get chipped out too quickly. Which brings me to my next question: Does this thing get any form of recovery that isn't Rest? I feel like that goo must be able to recover? Or since it gets Sap Sipper and Hydration it seems like it has some sort of recovery potential. Has anyone tried breeding Recover onto it?

I run 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe with Calm (-Atk, +SpD). It's useful to get the power on special attacks, and hitting decently fast with them is worth losing power on Dragon Tail. I can see how Sassy might have some merits, but in general it's a bad idea. Goodra does not want to give up that Speed.

 

[Chickensandwichk]

I'm gonna use this spread

Goodra @ Chesto Berry/Leftovers
Modest
248 HP/ 246 SpDef/ 16 Speed
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Rest/ Dragon Tail/ Toxic

248 HP gives it 383 HP to protect from Stealth Rocks damage. That's how it works right? 16 Speed allows it to outrun neutral max speed base 70. I'm a fan of outpacing an entire base stat if only a small investment is required so although there aren't exactly any base 70s that you want to go 1-v-1 against, it could come in handy in a clutch situation. Here are some damage calcs

vs Goodra
252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 246 SpDef (custom): 35.5 - 42.03%
252 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 92-110 (24.02 - 28.72%) -- possible 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 135-161 (35.24 - 42.03%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom/Greninja) Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 205-244 (53.52 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 78-93 (20.36 - 24.28%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def (custom): 135-160 (35.24 - 41.77%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Goodra vs
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 170-200 (65.13 - 76.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom/Greninja): 194-230 (68.55 - 81.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 21.98 - 26%
0 SpA (custom) Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 127-150 (39.81 - 47.02%) -- 41.02% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 135-159 (51.52 - 60.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 120-142 (47.61 - 56.34%) -- 84.38% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 180-212 (44.55 - 52.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD MegaMawile: 194-230 (63.81 - 75.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 136-162 (33.66 - 40.09%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Lefties would help with the lack of recovery and with repeated stealth rock switch ins but the good speed stat and versatility makes me want to use ChestoRest to be a long lasting tank instead of a pivot switch in. We all know how vast Goodra's movepool is so the coverage is up to personal preference but here is why I made my choices:

Dragon Pulse: Dragon STAB. Yup
Fire Blast + Thunderbolt: You have coverage against all the fairy types (T-bolt for Azu and Toge, Fire blast for Klefki and Mawile) and T-bolt lets you fight bulky waters. Fireblast lets you hit steel switch ins, grass switch ins since this could be potential set up fodder for sub-seeders, and if for some reason a ice type (none come to mind) want to switch in, you can hit them as well.
Rest: Explained above
Dragon Tail/ Toxic: Team utility and these are moves which can make good use of leftovers

Assault Vest
So I know all the hype about AV is surrounding Goodra but I think without recovery, Goodra's item needs to be the recovery it lacks. And if you want a really bulky Goodra then just use a +SpDef nature and max SpDef EVs. I disagree with using any Goodra + AV sets.

vs Latias
Once PokeBank comes out, Goodra probably won't be using this set. Goodra and Latias are too similar and Latias has better defensive tools so Goodra will have to focus on maybe mixed attacking, trapping, Curse, or abusing Hydration/Gooey.


Let me know what y'all think!

 

[Cshadow]

I'm gonna use this spread

Goodra @ Chesto Berry/Leftovers
Modest
248 HP/ 246 SpDef/ 16 Speed
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Rest/ Dragon Tail/ Toxic

248 HP gives it 383 HP to protect from Stealth Rocks damage. That's how it works right? 16 Speed allows it to outrun neutral max speed base 70. I'm a fan of outpacing an entire base stat if only a small investment is required so although there aren't exactly any base 70s that you want to go 1-v-1 against, it could come in handy in a clutch situation.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Sap Sipper / Gooey
Modest
248 HP/ 196 SpA/ 12 SpD/ 52 SPE
~ Sludge Bomb / Thunderbolt
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Dragon Tail
~ Flamethrower
~ Draco Meteor

I know you do not like the idea of using Assault Vest Goodra because you believe that Leftovers somehow makes up for the difference in the damage he receives - but it doesn't. Not only that, but Assault Vest allows Goodra to be much more flexible with his EV distribution. I am not about to tell you that the EV spread I have listed is the most efficient out there, rather, I merely wish to demonstrate how inefficient yours is by comparison.

248 HP and 12 SpD puts you at 383 HP and 508 Special Defense with the Assault Vest boost factored in. These benchmarks mean that Life Orb Greninja can only manage a 3HKO with Ice Beam before Stealth Rock, and only has a 87.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (which isn't too important because you won't be switching into Ice Beam anyways and Flamethrower OHKOs him right back). In addition to that, 52 EVs in Speed allows you to outrun base 86 Pokemon that do not invest in Speed - notable ones include Rotom-W and 44 SPE Togekiss. The remaining EVs were thrown into Special Attack, which, with a Modest Nature, allows you to 2HKO Togekiss with either Sludge Bomb or Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock - something your set fails to guarantee.

vs Goodra
252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 246 SpDef (custom): 35.5 - 42.03%
252 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 92-110 (24.02 - 28.72%) -- possible 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 135-161 (35.24 - 42.03%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom/Greninja) Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 205-244 (53.52 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 246 SpD (custom): 78-93 (20.36 - 24.28%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def (custom): 135-160 (35.24 - 41.77%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Your damage calculations are a little off.
vs 248 HP/ 244 SPDEF (Modest) Goodra w/Leftovers

Hide

252 SpA (Naive) Sheer Force Landorus w/Life Orb Earth Power: (35.5 - 42.03%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.
252 SpA (Modest) Heatran Hidden Power [Ice] (60 Base Power): (22.97 - 27.15%) -- possible 5HKO, possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Starmie w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (33.15 - 39.42%) -- 18.02% chance to 3HKO, guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Greninja w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (51.69 - 61.09%) -- 93.75% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Mega Gengar Shadow Ball: (25.06 - 29.76%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Alakazam Psyshock: (46.99 - 55.61%) -- 19.14% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Latios Draco Meteor (130 Base Power): (86.16 - 101.82%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

vs 248 HP/ 12 SDEF Goodra w/Assault Vest

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252 SpA (Naive) Sheer Force Landorus w/Life Orb Earth Power: (27.93 - 32.89%) -- guaranteed 4HKO, 89.94% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Modest) Heatran Hidden Power [Ice] (60 Base Power): (17.75 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO, guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Starmie w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (27.15 - 32.63%) -- guaranteed 4HKO, 78.32% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Greninja w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (40.73 - 48.82%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, 87.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Mega Gengar Shadow Ball: (19.84 - 23.49%) -- possible 5HKO, possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Alakazam Psyshock: (46.99 - 55.61%) -- 74.22% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Latios Draco Meteor (130 Base Power): (67.88 - 80.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Notes:

• The difference in damage ranges anywhere between 5-19% depending on the attack.
• Stealth Rock damage factored in, the Leftovers recovery is negligible. Assuming minimum damage rolls and Stealth Rock on the field while switching into Sheer Force Life Orb (Naive) Landorus's Earth Power, Leftovers Goodra ends the turn having lost 41% of its health, Assault Vest Goodra only 39%. The difference in the damage taken becomes larger and larger the more damage is inflicted, and this becomes especially noticeable when observing how the two sets eat Greninja's Ice Beam, or Latios's Draco Meteor, with Assault Vest Goodra taking significantly less damage, even after factoring in Leftovers recovery.
• Assault Vest Goodra with almost no Special Defense investment takes Special hits better than Leftovers variants who nearly max themselves out.

Goodra vs
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 170-200 (65.13 - 76.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom/Greninja): 194-230 (68.55 - 81.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 21.98 - 26%
0 SpA (custom) Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 127-150 (39.81 - 47.02%) -- 41.02% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 135-159 (51.52 - 60.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 120-142 (47.61 - 56.34%) -- 84.38% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA (custom) Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 180-212 (44.55 - 52.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD MegaMawile: 194-230 (63.81 - 75.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA (custom) Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 136-162 (33.66 - 40.09%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

I think your damage calculations may be wrong again.
0 SpA (Modest) Goodra w/Leftovers vs.

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Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 4 SpD (Timid) Starmie: (67.43 - 79.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 252 SpD (Calm) Heatran: (14.02 - 16.62%) -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Adamant) Azumarill: (46.03 - 54.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold) Togekiss: (36.46 - 43.43%) -- 52.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Fire Blast (110 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 0 SpD (Timid) Greninja: (87.01 - 103.15%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Fire Blast (110 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Adamant) Mega Mawile: (64.47 - 76.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Fire Blast (110 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 140 SpD (Careful) Trevenant: (45.98 - 54.54%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Fire Blast (110 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold/Impish) Gourgiest: (63.63 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Dragon Pulse (80 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 0 SpD (Naive) Landorus: (43.26 - 51.09%) -- 97.66% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Dragon Pulse (80 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 0 SpD (Timid) Mega Gengar: (41.22 - 48.47%) -- 15.63% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Dragon Pulse (80 Base Power) vs. 4 HP/ 0 SpD (Timid) Alakazam: (46.82 - 55.15%) -- 67.19% chance to 2HKO.

196 SpA (Modest) Goodra w/Assault Vest (30 SpA IV) vs.

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Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 4 SpD (Timid) Starmie: (79.69 - 94.25%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Adamant) Azumarill: (54.45 - 64.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold) Togekiss: (43.43 - 51.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 0 SpD (Timid) Greninja: (89.12 - 105.26%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Adamant) Mega Mawile: (66.44 - 78.28%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 140 SpD (Careful) Trevenant: (60.96 - 72.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold/Impish) Gourgiest: (65.77 - 77.54%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Hidden Power [Ground] (60 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 252 (Calm) Heatran: (44.67 - 52.98%) -- 84.38% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 0 SpD (Naive) Landorus: (83.07 - 98.11%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
-2 Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 0 Hp/ 0 SpD (Naive) Landorus: (41.69 - 49.21%).
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 0 Hp/ 0 SpD (Timid) Mega Gengar: (79.31 - 93.48%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
-6 Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 0 Hp/ 0 SpD (Timid) Mega Gengar: (19.92 - 24.13%).
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 4 Hp/ 0 SpD (Timid) Alakazam: (90.47 - 106.34%).

Notes:

• Assault Vest Goodra is capable of 2HKO'ing and OHKO'ing threats Leftovers Goodra is not capable of handling, specifically Togekiss.

Lefties would help with the lack of recovery and with repeated stealth rock switch ins but the good speed stat and versatility makes me want to use ChestoRest to be a long lasting tank instead of a pivot switch in.

The thing, though, is that Goodra, to be used as efficiently as possible, is going to require the same kind of support no matter which set you run, really - Wish support, Cleric support, and Defog/Rapid Spin support are all welcome for Goodra, who does not have access to reliable recovery, a means to avoid being inflicted with status (except for Sap Sipper but that's only good against Grass-Types), and does not enjoy taking repeated beatings with Stealth Rock on the field (and he will because his Special Defense is just that good, honestly).

So far, with what you've demonstrated, you really don't have a reason to not run Assault Vest Goodra.

Assault Vest

So I know all the hype about AV is surrounding Goodra but I think without recovery, Goodra's item needs to be the recovery it lacks. And if you want a really bulky Goodra then just use a +SpDef nature and max SpDef EVs. I disagree with using any Goodra + AV sets.

See everything above this.

vs Latias

Once PokeBank comes out, Goodra probably won't be using this set. Goodra and Latias are too similar and Latias has better defensive tools so Goodra will have to focus on maybe mixed attacking, trapping, Curse, or abusing Hydration/Gooey.

Latias and Goodra are not in competition with each other because they fill completely different roles - Latias will see use primarily as a hazard remover, and she will compete with her older brother, Latios, for that position, because Latios has basically the same movepool, is just as fast, but hits everything way, way harder. Goodra will see use as a tank or a pivot and takes Special hits way, way better than those two do anyways.

 

[Trevenant]

It is interesting to note that Max SpD Assault Vest Goodra hits an astonishing Base Stat of 250 in SpD. So, if you opt for that well then good luck muscling past it.

 

[zferolie]

It is interesting to note that Max SpD Assault Vest Goodra hits an astonishing Base Stat of 250 in SpD. So, if you opt for that well then good luck muscling past it.

Is this with a SpD + nature? or just max SpD EV's?

I got my Adamant Goomy Breed with Perfect attack, HP, and High Defense, Speed, and SpD(In the mid to upper 20's.) I am not sure how to EV build it to make it a powerful Physical attacker but also shrug off Spc hits. I will be using Assault vest, since I will have wish support for this team once Pokebank is open(Using Alomomola) So with this set, whats a good EV build?

Goodra w/Assault Vest(Sap Sipper)
Outrage
Earthquake
Iron Tail
Power Whip

I am thinking a Mix Between HP, Attack, and SpD, but not sure how to best mix it. Max SpD and Mix rest with Att and HP?

 

[Thorhammer]

I am thinking a Mix Between HP, Attack, and SpD, but not sure how to best mix it. Max SpD and Mix rest with Att and HP?

With Goodra's high SpD, you'll get more out of putting EVs into its HP.

252 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
HP*Def = 384*176 = 67584
HP*SpD = 384*336 = 129024

0 HP / 0 Def / 252 SpD
HP*Def = 321*176 = 56496
HP*SpD = 321*399 = 128079

As you can see, investing in HP is better off even for its ability to take special hits. You could get a bit higher by splitting EVs between HP and SpD to make the stats equal, but why do that when it'd take away from your physical defense?

Best for this case would just be to max HP and Atk. You'll want a Careful nature, though, since the percentage boost to Goodra's SpD means it'll get the largest boost.

 

[Cshadow]

I've been crunching numbers all morning.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Sap Sipper / Gooey
Modest
248 HP/ 196 SpA/ 12 SpD/ 52 SPE
~ Sludge Bomb / Thunderbolt
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Dragon Tail
~ Flamethrower
~ Draco Meteor

Stickybuns (Goodra) @ Assault Vest
Sap Sipper
Calm
236 HP/ 220 SpA/ 52 SPE
~ Sludge Bomb / Thunderbolt
~ Flamethrower
~ Draco Meteor
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Dragon Tail

• With 236 HP and a Calm Nature, Goodra hits 380 HP/ 553 Special Defense factoring in the boost from wearing the Assault Vest, which is just enough to guarantee that you avoid a 3HKO from Life Orb Greninja's Ice Beam after Stealth Rock: (36.84 - 43.68%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
• With 52 EVs in Speed, Goodra hits 209, and is capable of outrunning notable threats like Togekiss and Rotom-W.
• The rest of the EVs were thrown into Special Attack, giving him a stat 311, and with that investment, is capable of 2HKO'ing 236 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold) Togekiss with either Sludge Bomb or Thunderbolt after Stealth Rock: (40.75 - 48.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

vs. Goodra

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252 SpA (Timid) Starmie w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (23.94 - 28.68%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Greninja w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (36.84 - 43.68%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA (Timid) Latios w/Life Orb Draco Meteor (130 Base Power): (62.36 - 73.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SpA (Naive) Sheer Force Landorus w/Life Orb Earth Power: (26.05 - 30.78%) -- 14.89% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock.

Goodra vs.

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Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 0 SpD Togekiss: (40.75 - 48.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD Azumarill: (50.49 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Impish) Gourgiest: (57.75 - 68.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 140 SpD (Careful) Trevenant: (42.24 - 49.73%) -- 86.72% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Timid) Latias: (80.76 - 95.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold) Rotom-W: (57.42 - 67.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Hidden Power [Ground] (60 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 252 SpD (Calm) Heatran: (40.51 - 48.83%) -- 16.02% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Gootee (Goodra) @ Assault Vest
Sap Sipper
Modest
204 HP/ 252 SpA/ 52 SPE
~ Sludge Bomb / Thunderbolt
~ Flamethrower
~ Draco Meteor
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Focus Blast / Dragon Tail

• Sacrifices some bulk for a Special Attack stat of 350, just 9 points shy of Timid Latios' 359.
• Greninja now has a 71.48% chance of 2HKO'ing you after Stealth Rock.
• In exchange, you are now guaranteed to 2HKO 248 HP/ 252 SpD (Calm) Heatran after Stealth Rock with Hidden Power [Ground], guaranteed to 2HKO Trevenant after Stealth Rock with Flamethrower, and pick off bulky Pokemon like 248 HP/ 232 DEF (Bold) Rotom-W with Draco Meteor while they are still in good health (dealing 64% minimum to him), among other things.

vs. Goodra

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252 SpA (Timid) Starmie w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (27.15 - 32.25%) -- 65.01% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Greninja w/Life Orb Ice Beam (90 Base Power): (40.59 - 48.92%) -- 71.48% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252 SpA (Timid) Latios w/Life Orb Draco Meteor (130 Base Power): (69.89 - 82.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
252 SpA (Naive) Sheer Force Landorus w/Life Orb Earth Power: (29.3 - 34.67%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock.

Goodra vs.

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Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 0 SpD Togekiss: (45.57 - 54.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Thunderbolt (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD Azumarill: (57.42 - 67.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Impish) Gourgiest: (65.24 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Flamethrower (90 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 140 SpD (Careful) Trevenant: (47.05 - 55.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD (Timid) Latias: (91.2 - 107.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Draco Meteor (130 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 0 SpD (Bold) Rotom-W: (64.35 - 76.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
Hidden Power [Ground] (60 Base Power) vs. 248 HP/ 252 SpD (Calm) Heatran: (46.75 - 55.06%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

 

[Kadabrium]

I always thought you should never run a plus nature without near full investment cuz the higher the stat was before the nature boost, the more extra points the nature boost gains, which in turn saves more ev points.

 

[Cshadow]

I always thought you should never run a plus nature without near full investment cuz the higher the stat was before the nature boost, the more extra points the nature boost gains, and hence saves more ev points.

Are you referring to the Stickybuns set?

236 HP/ 220 SpA/ 52 Spe (Calm) Goodra hits: 380/212/176/311/369/209
236 HP/ 88 SpA/ 132 SpD/ 52 SPE (Modest) Goodra hits: 380/212/176/305/369/209

The second set, using a Modest nature with 132 SpD EVs hits the same Special Defense stat as the first set, however, it is only hits 305 Special Attack vs. the first's Special Attack stat of 311. The first spread, while it does invest heavily in Special Attack without running a positive nature, hits a higher Special Attack stat than the second, who runs a Modest Nature but only invests a little.

 

[Kadabrium]

Are you referring to the Stickybuns set?

236 HP/ 220 SpA/ 52 Spe (Calm) Goodra hits: 380/212/176/311/369/209
236 HP/ 88 SpA/ 132 SpD/ 52 SPE (Modest) Goodra hits: 380/212/176/305/369/209

The second set, using a Modest nature with 132 SpD EVs hits the same Special Defense stat as the first set, however, it is only hits 305 Special Attack vs. the first's Special Attack stat of 311. The first spread, while it does invest heavily in Special Attack without running a positive nature, hits a higher Special Attack stat than the second, who runs a Modest Nature but only invests a little.

yes this is exactlybwhat i meant
That the plus nature should be on its highest stat which in this case is spd

 

[Trevenant]

Is this with a SpD + nature? or just max SpD EV's?

I got my Adamant Goomy Breed with Perfect attack, HP, and High Defense, Speed, and SpD(In the mid to upper 20's.) I am not sure how to EV build it to make it a powerful Physical attacker but also shrug off Spc hits. I will be using Assault vest, since I will have wish support for this team once Pokebank is open(Using Alomomola) So with this set, whats a good EV build?

Goodra w/Assault Vest(Sap Sipper)
Outrage
Earthquake
Iron Tail
Power Whip

I am thinking a Mix Between HP, Attack, and SpD, but not sure how to best mix it. Max SpD and Mix rest with Att and HP?

Yes, 252+ Goodra.

 

[Cshadow]

yes this is exactlybwhat i meant
That the plus nature should be on its highest stat which in this case is spd

I don't understand what you are trying to ask - please try to include more than one or two lines of information in your post when trying to ask questions, or at least be more specific, because you're being very unclear about whatever it is you are trying to ask or whatever point you are trying to make.

The first set I listed does run a positive Special Defense nature - Calm = +Special Defense (SpD), -Attack (ATK). If you're referring to the second set, why would I run a positive Special Defense nature for something that was geared more towards Special Attacking - that's why I was running a Modest Nature. Positive Natures aren't ran in certain stats simply because it's the highest stat; there's always a threshold you want to meet, or a skill you want to maximize that is accomplished by running that positive nature. For Pokemon like Azumarill, an Adamant Nature is ran because you want to deal as much damage as possible. For Pokemon like Chansey, a Bold Nature is ran because not only is its Special Defense already ungodly high, but also because you want to minimize the amount of damage inflicted by physically-based assaults as much as possible.

Goodra runs a Calm Nature in the first set I listed to avoid a 2HKO from Greninja, and a Modest one in the second because he wants to deal as much damage as possible.

 

[LordBurger]

Here's what I did with my Goodra:
Nature: Mild
Ability: Gooey
Item: Assault Vest
EVs: 252 HP/252 SAtk/4 Atk
Moves:
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge bomb
- Bulldoze
- Focus blast

He's part of my main team and so far I haven't lost :3
Definitely an amazing SP DEF tank

 

[Chickensandwichk]

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Sap Sipper / Gooey
Modest
248 HP/ 196 SpA/ 12 SpD/ 52 SPE
~ Sludge Bomb / Thunderbolt
~ Hidden Power [Ground] / Dragon Tail
~ Flamethrower
~ Draco Meteor

Well then, good job dude. I'll leave the set making to folks like you haha

 

[pokelover32]

Since when is extra spd on goodra viable? Really? NEVER. Hey, you can't touch my goodra, it has a ton of spd! Gets ohko'd by the weakest physical attacks. Extra offenses? Doesn't even get to use them

 

[farranpoison]

Since when is extra spd on goodra viable? Really? NEVER. Hey, you can't touch my goodra, it has a ton of spd! Gets ohko'd by the weakest physical attacks. Extra offenses? Doesn't even get to use them

This is why you don't use Assault Vest Goodra on a physical attacker. You have 5 other mons to deal with that.

 

[Trevenant]

JUST SAYING:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD (Godra): 222-264 (54.95 - 65.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It takes a 255 Base Power SE move from Modest/252/31 Kyurem-W to OHKO a Goodra with Assault Vest and 252/252+.

 

[False Sense]

Since when is extra spd on goodra viable? Really? NEVER. Hey, you can't touch my goodra, it has a ton of spd! Gets ohko'd by the weakest physical attacks. Extra offenses? Doesn't even get to use them

OHKO'd by the weakest of physical attacks? That's being rather hard on Goodra. While 70 base defense isn't particularly good by any means, it's not terrible. Especially since Goodra has a decent HP stat that is often fully invested in. Sure, it shouldn't be used to take physical hits, but it's not going to just drop dead from any physical attack you throw at it.

 

[Trevenant]

OHKO'd by the weakest of physical attacks? That's being rather hard on Goodra. While 70 base defense isn't particularly good by any means, it's not terrible. Especially since Goodra has a decent HP stat that is often fully invested in. Sure, it shouldn't be used to take physical hits, but it's not going to just drop dead from any physical attack you throw at it.

excuse me,

252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0- Def (custom): 1178-1388 (366.97 - 432.39%) -- guaranteed OHKO

totally horrible, goodra for nu.


(sarcarm)

ok, that out of the way, people are acting like it'll just be Goodra vs. any Physical Attacker, there's a reason you have a team of six people.

 

[pokelover32]

Switching is a bad idea for the most part. Also, yes, the weakest attacks; It takes about 2-3 mach punches and it's out. I love goodra, and indeed it does have good bulk, but you're leaving it horribly unbalanced. I personally invest full hp and def with an extra nature for extra def and even then it can't take all that much. Also, no one's hitting you're goodra specially that much unless the rest of their team is dead

 

[False Sense]

Switching is a bad idea for the most part. Also, yes, the weakest attacks; It takes about 2-3 mach punches and it's out. I love goodra, and indeed it does have good bulk, but you're leaving it horribly unbalanced. I personally invest full hp and def with an extra nature for extra def and even then it can't take all that much. Also, no one's hitting you're goodra specially that much unless the rest of their team is dead

Getting 2/3HKO'd by Mach Punches does not equal to getting OHKO'd by the weakest of physical attacks. And Mach Punches from what, exactly? If it's from Breloom, that's not exactly a weak attack...

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the idea of a mixed wall Goodra. It's good for balancing out that bulk, but Goodra kind of lacks a good support movepool to back it up. Notably, it lacks recovery, and if you plan on using it as an answer for attackers of both sides of the spectrum, Goodra will be worn down very quickly. If you're going to make Goodra defensive, it's probably better to specialize in its good special defense to ease pressure on it and make it less susceptible to being worn down.

 

[Cshadow]

Switching is a bad idea for the most part. Also, yes, the weakest attacks; It takes about 2-3 mach punches and it's out. I love goodra, and indeed it does have good bulk, but you're leaving it horribly unbalanced. I personally invest full hp and def with an extra nature for extra def and even then it can't take all that much. Also, no one's hitting you're goodra specially that much unless the rest of their team is dead

Balderdash.

Switching out of a physical attacker that can kill you is not a bad idea - it's like the exact opposite of a bad idea. That's like saying that switching Chansey out of a Close Combat from Terrakion is a bad idea - it's not; it's going to kill you, why wouldn't you want to switch out? The same logic applies to Goodra; run away from physical attackers that you cannot handle. This is why you have five other team members: Goodra is not a one-dragon answer to everything.

The second half of your statement is also incorrect: there is a reason that Life Orb Greninja's Ice Beam has been listed repeatedly in this thread, and the reason being that Goodra's Super-Effective coverage makes it so that there are few safe switch-ins against competent players. One of the most wonderful things about Pokemon is playing the prediction game, and all of the common switch-ins to Goodra risk taking massive damage by switching into the wrong attack. Azumarill, Togekiss, and Heatran all fold to the right guess - Heatran especially because he relies on Goodra using Draco Meteor in order to force him out (because the most Heatran can do is use Toxic), and the only way he's avoiding being 2HKO'd by Hidden Power [Ground] or Focus Blast is from that self-inflicted -2. Opponent's that recognize this aspect of Goodra are going to weigh the pros and cons of switching and, sometimes, losing your Greninja or Starmie (and stripping Goodra of ~45% of his health) is worth it if that means you can bring in your Choice Scarf Terrakion and punch a hole through your opponent's team with Close Combat. Of course, the wrong prediction on the side of the Goodra player will result in it being forced out, but the point in mentioning any of this anyways was to say that it's a coin toss and Goodra is a dangerous Pokemon and that Goodra is totally going to be taking Special assaults if it means the opponent can guarantee the safety of another Pokemon.

In addition to that, what do you think Goodra is switching into most of the time? It definitely isn't physically oriented Pokemon that are going to nearly kill him with their high base power, STAB attacks. No, Goodra is switching in to Pokemon that he can force out - Specially oriented Pokemon that will deal nearly no damage and force the opponent to weigh the pros and cons of losing that Pokemon or the switch-in to the wrong prediction.

Finally, why are you investing in Goodra's Defense Stat if you're asserting that even after max investment and a positive nature he still struggles sponge neutral, STAB assaults? Wouldn't that only strengthen the argument that Goodra is better off geared more towards what is being discussed, like the sets I have posted?