Goodstuff team

avalanche3387

avalanche3387

At a Glance:
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This is my VGC team I have going. It's pretty good but it isn't perfect. It struggles against rain and sandstorm teams as well as having a big weakness to ice. I think it needs more bulk but I don't quite know what it needs. I may be best off building a new team from scratch. I like options so that's why I run goodstuff and not a weather or trick room team that REQUIRES a certain strategy to work in order to win. Overall this team and I have over a 10:3 W:L ratio not including disconnects. Overall I probably win more of my battles on experience and skill than the dominance of my team and I refuse to use "cheap" tactics like rain and sun teams. Here's the team, sorry no pics (at least yet)(Fixed, Thanks Gengan). Pokemon I am not sold on yet are Zapdos and Metagross and maybe Amoongus (only if I can get a replacement that can handle both rain and Trick Room teams).

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Zapdos @ electric gem
modest nature, Pressure
140 hp, 252 sp att, 116 speed
Thunderbolt
Heat wave
Hidden power ice
Detect

Zapdos is the newest addition to my team so I don't have much experience with him. I originally had Jolteon here but I decided to sacrifice some speed to add a bit of power and some bulk. Only problem with this change is that I now have another Ice weak pokemon. Thunderbolt is the main attack for zapdos with heat wave and hidden power as coverage moves. Heat wave for steel types and if I can, ice too. Hidden power Ice is for the dragon types running EVERYWHERE. I decided detect would most likely be more useful for my team than tailwind because the bulky things are too slow and the fast things are fast enough.

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Garchomp @ Choice scarf
Adamant Nature, Sand Veil
252 att, 252 speed, 4 I think it was HP
Dragon Claw
Outrage
Earthquake
Rock Slide

Early on in my team development Garchomp was the heart and soul of my team, the reason it ran. The combination of speed, power, and bulk he has is just perfect. I mostly use Dragon Claw with Earthquake as the second most. Rock slide is rather rarely used and Outrage is almost filler. The ONLY problem I have with Garchomp is the awful 4x ice weakness. I just love this guy. (Oh and mine is shiny!)

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Cresselia @ Sitrus berry
252 HP, 60 Def, 196 Sp. Def
Calm nature, Levitate

Icy Wind
Psyshock
Helping hand
Trick Room

Cresselia replaces Chandelure on my team. There is a reason he is amongst the most used pokemon in VGC 12 (and likely the early part of 13 too) Cresselia is a defensive Badass taking hits all day. Icy Wind and Trick Room can both help me outspeed opponents in different ways and only one is used at a time. Icy Wind also helps give he a move to hit dragons somewhat and Trick Room will cancel out the opponents use of it. Helping Hand can give a much needed boost to my partner's move and Psyshock is my offensive presence. I started using Cresselia and have fallen in love with her.

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Scrafty @ Fight Gem
Adamant Nature, Moxie
148 HP, 252 Att, 4 Def, 4 Sp Def, 100 Speed
Drain Punch
Crunch
Fake Out
Detect

Scrafty is my other answer to trick room teams. He is slow and bulky and packs a STAB Crunch to take out the Psychics and Ghosts that set up trick room and has a powerful Drain Punch (boosted by Fight Gem) to attack most other things (near perfect coverage) and provide recovery. Fake out is great for flinching (or forcing a protect) on the greater threat. If I'm using fake out on the pokemon, it isn't attacking mine. After a Moxie boost or two, Scrafty will be piling up some damage. The problems with Scrafty are rather few with a lack of resists being the main, if only, concern.

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Amoongus @ Lum Berry
Sassy Nature, Effect Spore
252 HP, 252 Sp Def, 4 Sp Att
Spore
Giga Drain
Rage Powder
Sludge Bomb

Amoongus is my main and possibly only counter to rain teams. Spore is a wonderful move and completely incapacitates an opponent. Giga Drain does damage to the water types about in rain teams and Sludge Bomb is a secondary STAB for flying types and to get a powerful hit on Ludicolo. Rage Powder is an amazing move to protect a team mate from getting hit and taking out a threat. Amoongus just doesn't hit quite hard enough for what I need and adds the common ice weakness to my team. I have never missed protect on Amoongus.

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Metagross @ Steel Gem
252 Hp, 252 Att, 4 Speed
Adamant nature, Clear Body

Meteor mash
Bullet Punch
Earthquake
Protect

I somewhat miss my Togekiss and its amazing Follow Me support, but I definitely appreciate the power boost and Super Effective hits on Ice and Steel types. Steel/Ground isn't great coverage but that isn't as important in doubles with partner Pokemon. Steel Gem gives me a powerful initial steel attack. I chose Earthquake and Protect over Explosion for coverage and the fact that I already have 3 pokemon without Protect. He is most importantly used for Tyranitar though. Overall, I'm somewhat underwhelmed with Metagross though. I try using him in a main role and I feel he needs to be used in a more complimentary role. I am also wondering if Hammer Arm would be better over Earthquake to help with Hydreigon and Ferrothorn.



My team has main struggles against Tyranitar, well played and non standard Rain teams, and ICE TYPE MOVES. I tried Metagross over Togekiss (and Latios over Garchomp) which would seem to help against all of those threats but it just wasn't effective enough. Both Togekiss and Chandelure are useless against Tyranitar and only Garchomp and Scrafty can do significant damage to him. Trick room teams I can generally handle. Rain teams can go back and forth, it's all in the skill of the other battler that determines the outcome really. I had Jolteon (Air Balloon, Thunderbolt, Discharge, Hidden Power Ice, Protect) over Zapdos but I decided I liked the bulk.

My team is quite flexible. Almost all of my team mates fit quite well together. There are almost no combinations of a pair that do not work well together. I like to run Scrafty/Chandelure combo to get a fighting and ghost attack combo in the same turn and Garchomp/Togekiss for Earthquakes and Follow Me support. I am sometimes a complete douche bag going with Fake Out and Spore putting everything to sleep. Togekiss has chemistry with everything. My team has pretty good synergy I think.

I need a better (more consistant) solution to rain teams and a better answer to tyranitar and ice types and will listen to any advice. Amoongus and Chandelure are the two I am really thinking about changing out but there goes my best answers to trick room. The coverage that Chandelure gives on steel types is almost too good to drop and Amoongus is an overall bad ass. Let me know what you think.
 
I know you're striving for a goodstuffs team, but at the moment, it seems like you have half a team running goodstuffs and the other half running Trick Room without the Trick Room. I'll go ahead and admit that this won't be the best quality rate in the world; I want to change several things and in the end, I'm not sure if the team would really be yours anymore. If I were you, I would scrap one half and build off of the other. That's pretty drastic advice, but if you're still interested, here's the rest of my rate:

I think you should scrap Scrafty, Chandelure, and Amoonguss.

From your complaints, you're having a hard time against Rain, Trick Room, and Ice-types in general. These three either contribute to your weakness to each condition, or help a little with one, but not to the magnitude you need. Instead, I think you should change to these three new members:

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Calm
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Psychic
-Icy Wind
-Helping Hand
-Trick Room

Cresselia gives you anti-trickroom support and a decent defense against Rain teams with its natural bulk. Unlike Chandelure, Cresselia can take hits all day, invert Trick Room when you need to, and power up your ally's attacks with Helping Hand. Not only that, but it pairs BEAUTIFULLY with Garchomp and allows you to spam ultra fast Helping Hand boosted Earthquakes at whim.

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Speed
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Earthquake
-Protect

Next on the replacement list is Metagross. Metagross gives you a terrific defense against Ice-types, Hail teams, and Tyranitar (although you'll need to deal with the Earthquake users he brings on a Sandstorm team with your other Pokemon). Metagross has great offensive and good defensive synergy alongside Zapdos and pairs very well with Cresselia as well. He can also operate in and outside of Trick Room very well and give you a secondary defense against it should you not bring Cresselia or it dies prematurely.

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
Modest
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power Grass / Volt Switch / Discharge
-Trick

And finally, this is my last recommended replacement. Amoonguss is an alright answer to rain, but it's still weak to Ice Beam, Scizor, and doesn't pair very well with Garchomp at all. Rotom-W on the other hand resists everything but Ludicolo's Giga Drain and random Hidden Power Grass and pairs extraordinarily well with Garchomp. Normally, I would recommend a more typical set with Protect and a Sitrus Berry or Electric Gem, but I think this could be a neat set to try out on your team. Rotom-W's Choice Spec'd Thunderbolts will obliterate everything in your path and keep a lot of pressure on Rain Teams. You can even Trick away your Choice Specs later on in the game to screw with something like a Scizor or a Cresselia. You have several different options to choose in the third slot. Hidden Power Grass allows you to break through the occasional Gastrodon. Volt-Switch will allow you to get a strong hit and retreat to safety if you see an obvious Grass or strong STAB attack coming. Discharge will fry every member of a Rain team sans Gastrodon, but you'll pretty much always need Garchomp on the field to use it to its maximum potential.

Hope my advice wasn't awful!
 
TheMantyke said:
I know you're striving for a goodstuffs team, but at the moment, it seems like you have half a team running goodstuffs and the other half running Trick Room without the Trick Room. I'll go ahead and admit that this won't be the best quality rate in the world; I want to change several things and in the end, I'm not sure if the team would really be yours anymore. If I were you, I would scrap one half and build off of the other. That's pretty drastic advice, but if you're still interested, here's the rest of my rate:

I think you should scrap Scrafty, Chandelure, and Amoonguss.

From your complaints, you're having a hard time against Rain, Trick Room, and Ice-types in general. These three either contribute to your weakness to each condition, or help a little with one, but not to the magnitude you need. Instead, I think you should change to these three new members:

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry
Calm
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-Psychic
-Icy Wind
-Helping Hand
-Trick Room

Cresselia gives you anti-trickroom support and a decent defense against Rain teams with its natural bulk. Unlike Chandelure, Cresselia can take hits all day, invert Trick Room when you need to, and power up your ally's attacks with Helping Hand. Not only that, but it pairs BEAUTIFULLY with Garchomp and allows you to spam ultra fast Helping Hand boosted Earthquakes at whim.

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Adamant
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Speed
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Earthquake
-Protect

Next on the replacement list is Metagross. Metagross gives you a terrific defense against Ice-types, Hail teams, and Tyranitar (although you'll need to deal with the Earthquake users he brings on a Sandstorm team with your other Pokemon). Metagross has great offensive and good defensive synergy alongside Zapdos and pairs very well with Cresselia as well. He can also operate in and outside of Trick Room very well and give you a secondary defense against it should you not bring Cresselia or it dies prematurely.

Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
Modest
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Hydro Pump
-Hidden Power Grass / Volt Switch / Discharge
-Trick

And finally, this is my last recommended replacement. Amoonguss is an alright answer to rain, but it's still weak to Ice Beam, Scizor, and doesn't pair very well with Garchomp at all. Rotom-W on the other hand resists everything but Ludicolo's Giga Drain and random Hidden Power Grass and pairs extraordinarily well with Garchomp. Normally, I would recommend a more typical set with Protect and a Sitrus Berry or Electric Gem, but I think this could be a neat set to try out on your team. Rotom-W's Choice Spec'd Thunderbolts will obliterate everything in your path and keep a lot of pressure on Rain Teams. You can even Trick away your Choice Specs later on in the game to screw with something like a Scizor or a Cresselia. You have several different options to choose in the third slot. Hidden Power Grass allows you to break through the occasional Gastrodon. Volt-Switch will allow you to get a strong hit and retreat to safety if you see an obvious Grass or strong STAB attack coming. Discharge will fry every member of a Rain team sans Gastrodon, but you'll pretty much always need Garchomp on the field to use it to its maximum potential.

Hope my advice wasn't awful!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the rate! My team is just about supposed to be half and half. I like the flexibility and options it provides. Chandelure has trick room to counteract it anyways. The team is just about built to counter trick room. I do have a couple problems though. so I'll go through them.

Cresselia over Chandelure
This I can see. The bulk will be appreciated but there is a SIGNIFICANT loss in power. That is only mildly fixed in the addition of helping hand. This is my main problem with both Togekiss and Amoongus so I don't want to compound it. Icy wind would be helpful too though. I still would have a huge problem with steel types (mostly Scizor and Ferrothorn) without the candle, especially if I also take out Scrafty. Overall, the most likely change I think.

Metagross over Scrafty
I lose out on Fake Out and fighting attacks for similar bulk and a just-as-effective check on Tyranitar. I tried out a Metagross before going back to the previous team but it just wasn't as effective as I needed it. Ice types just aren't that common and Scrafty can take them out just as well. I think I can say this one just about won't happen.

Rotom-W over Amoongus
Yeah he might help out a little against rain teams but against almost everything else he is worse. Amoongus may be weak to ice but he can still take a few unSTABed Ice Beams. I already have Zapdos for my powerful electric type user and is better than Rotom-W in my mind, though I can still try him out. I would rather replace Zapdos though.

Thanks for the ideas though! I'll give Cresselia and Rotom-W a try.:pimp:
 
Anyone else have an idea? I switched Togekiss and Chandelure out for these.

Cresselia @ Sitrus berry
252 HP, 60 Def, 196 Sp. Def
Levitate

Icy Wind
Psyshock
Helping hand
Trick Room

Helps out with everything. I never use Trick Room and Icy Wind at the same time, and Helping hand is helpful. Psyshock gives her at least some offensive presense. This lady has synergy with every one of my team mates and doesn't die.

Metagross @ Steel Gem
252 Hp, 252 Att, 4 Speed
Clear Body

Meteor mash
Bullet Punch
Earthquake
Protect

Ran Protect over Explosion because I already have 3 pokes without protect (actually two have detect so Meta is my only Protect user) and this thing hits pretty hard. Meteor mash just misses at the wrong times though but Bullet Punch priority is good to have and Earthquake provides some helpful coverage. Speed ties Scrafty though and overall still not sold on Meta, fire weakness and neutrality to water.
 
My idea, is for you to update your RMT, with your new mons. Well if you did switch those two out, then I'd say you have a pretty solid team, I'd love to battle it sometime.
 
Thank you GP, I appreciate it. Fixed the post with updates. I'm trying this team out in the Autumn Friendly and will see how it goes.
 
Hi, glad to see some of my advice helped! Now that you've refined the team a little, I think I can offer some half decent advice.

I'm not sure if you just haven't updated your descriptions or if you're really still struggling with rain. If that's still the case, I think I have a solution. Between Cresselia, Metagross, and Amoonguss, you are very well prepared for Trick Room, prepared enough to the point of where Scrafty looks repetitive. If you're still struggling against rain and you'd like a team mate that fulfills Scrafty's niche reasonably well, try a Ludicolo over Scrafty.

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Ludicolo @
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Swift Swim
Timid
6 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
-Fake Out
-Hydro Pump
-Giga Drain
-Ice Beam / Protect

Ludicolo can take Surfs all day and is generally scary as hell for Rain to fight. You're a fast, reasonably powerful attacker with a super-effective hit against everything rain can throw at you, sans Toxicroak. It's still very useful outside of Rain too, as its coverage is phenominal. Ludicolo might look repetitive alongside Amoonguss, but they only share one weakness and Flying-type attacks give Zapdos and Metagross and awesome switch in opportunity.

Hope my advice helped!
 
I echo TheMantyke here. Ludicolo is absurd in a rain team, and against it.
Timid is useful outside of the rain. I use Modest in the rain, but Timid would outspeed my Modest one, making it trump fakeout and outspeed on the attack (although outspeeding ludicolo doesn't really matter, since he doesn't counter himself...).
 
I had a Ludicolo on my team when I was still building it before I replaced it with Amoongus and liked it decently well. It has great coverage and is helpful but either not fast or not bulky enough. I was avoiding dropping Scrafty because of Fake Out but Ludicolo keeps it going. I am somewhat worried about losing the fighting and dark attacks though but I should survive. Problem with Ludi is the 4 move slot syndrome. I want Fake Out, Scald, Giga Drain, Ice Beam, and Protect but can only keep 4. Maybe I should try Ferrothorn here too?
 
It isn't really hard to kill Ice types. For the record, most teams SHOULD have an Ice type counter, as Ice has really good coverage, and a team without a surefire Ice protector might as well surrender to hail teams. Ice types are also easy to target. I think that a Ninetales might assist you, but not as a lead, as I'm 99% sure that Ninetales is the fastest of all of the OU weather starters, and the Politoed or Tyranitar or whatever will destroy your efforts.

Another good angle is to try to use your problems to your advantage. You have rain and sandstorm problems, as I was just discussing, so try putting Thunder on Zapdos to destroy that Politoed and kill those rain sweepers, or place something to kill the sandstorm starter, such as a Gastrodon, who can destroy both with not much to fear.

Your Scrafty is quite vulnerable to fighting types, as he doesn't have anything on the moveset to account for them. If Cresselia is down or not on the field, Heracross and Toxicroak (although Toxicroak can be killed quickly by Cresselia) can march right through him, resisting both STABs. Please account for that.

I personally digress against you using Icy Wind, as you already have Trick room, which'll account for speed quicker for Scrafty and Amoonguss.

Speed to me is a big problem, as a lot of it is not there except for ChoiceChomp (and a single Blizzard is the nail in the Cofagrigus for him). I know that Trick Room is on here, and it will also hamper ChoiceChomp by having the scarf slow him down.

The dropping of Ludicolo sort of contributes to your rain problem, as Ludicolo is a great rain warrior, with or against it. And if you're going to not use Ludicolo, the rain problem will stay with you unless changes are made.

Overall, this team will probably not get very far. A lot of flaws subsist, and those flaws, although accounted for, can mitigate the protection and proceed to dominate.

I'm not trying to be a bad person, but this team is asking to be scrapped.
 
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