Gothitelle Discussion

[uxsee]

Gothitelle

Stats

70/55/95/95/110/65​

As we all (should) know, Shadow Tag Gothitelle was released today and now Gothitelle is now godlike in comparison to some of the other bulky psychic types (Musharna, Duosion, and Gardevoir). It has a solid 95 base defense and special attack and great 110 special defense, but is weakened by its low speed and HP stats. It's movepool is pretty standard for a psychic type with access to psychic, psyshock, dark pulse, calm mind, trick room, heal bell, signal beam, resttalk, and magic coat. The ability to trap and set up on a wide variety of common and choice locked pokemon in the tier, including shitmola, amoonguss, sawk, wartortle (lol), tangela, electrode, piloswine, golem, probopass, and torkoal is what makes gothitelle so damn good right now. This thread is to discuss good and/or original sets, counters, teammates, and effect on the metagame of the mighty emo gardevoir.

Sets

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Gothitelle (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psyshock/Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting/Ground]/Signal Beam
- Substitute/Heal Bell
- Calm Mind

This will probably be the gothitelle set that 95% of us will use because its just so stronf. It comes in on a pokemon like Amoonguss or Alomomola and then subs to avoid status (her archnemesis) and gets up to plus 6 behind the sub. It then proceeds to sweep the rest of the opponents team. The choice between signal beam and Hidden Power Fighting is yours depending on if you want to hit psychics or steels, respectively.

Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ground/Thunderbolt
- Trick

This Gothitelle takes a more offensive stance, cutting out the bullshit and just slapping opponents around. Just switch into something you resist (or does peanuts), and wallop opponents until they faint. Psychic isn't amazingly powerful but it'll do the job in a pinch; Signal Beam and Hidden Power Ground hit everything else fairly hard, and they can't switch, so you don't risk losing the momentum as they switch to a response. Trick is also cool, because you can cripple walls like Lickilicky without them being able to switch out and avoid it. Psyshock is another option, but it's honestly pretty weak, so I wouldn't bother.

Gothitelle @ Expert Belt
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 100 Spd / 252 SAtk / 156 HP
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt

The EV's are used to outrun standard Cacturne, defensive Garbodor, and most Stealth Rock users. Hidden Power Fighting is able to hit both Probopass and Cacturne for super effective damage. Obviously this set won't work as well if the opponent doesn't lead with a hazard user or if they have something faster like Miltank or Gabite, but it does beat a whole lot of common leads. Also, Probopass can simply Volt Switch out after being Taunted but it will still suffer a lot of damage.

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe (these need optimized)
Moves:
- Taunt
- Torment
- Protect
- Psychic

The idea is to come in, and break the wall down slowly. 160 spe allows you to outspeed many walls, but I'm not sure about Misdreavus, or if you should even try against her. Hp allows for Longevity, as well as the defense does much the same, making it's defense slightly higher than is Special Defense (which is till high; 256 and 275). You trap the wall in, taunt it so it is unable to do much, then Torment/Protect it to hell. I can run calcs on how strong Psychic is without investment later, but still; Shadow Tag + Taunt + Torment = The most annoying pokemon out there.

Substitute gains a mention as a pseudo-protect, but it really isn't worth using over Protect. This strategy works best with Toxic Spikes/An absorber, so Garbodor works well with it to do both. Though, Toxic Spikes are generally poor. This is especially well after Amoongus is taken out (which shouldn't be hard). Also, a dark type destroyer such as 252 HP/ 252 SpAtk / 4SpDef Probopass with Earth Power is good for taking out the incredibly scary Skuntank, who might think to use Taunt on Probopass. A Will-O-Wisp/Scald user can help take out Absol and Skuntank (by making them weak), just please, I beg, don't use Wartortle. Physically defensive Rotom-S does pretty well at this too, and is commonly seen as a Scarfer anyway, so Sucker the Punch would bt likely to happen if you can bluff well. Even if not, taking a hit is easy.

As previously mentioned, Gurdurr makes a fine partner to take out Steel types and Dark types, while they can hardly do anything in return (even Absol's Psycho Cut as long as it doesnt crit).

0SpAtk Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/0SpDef Amoonguss (Neutral): 51% - 61% (224 - 266 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Gothitelle (M) @ Starf Berry
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Recycle
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]/Rest
- Substitute

Basically come in on something that can't hurt you, sub into Starf range, and Spam Recycle until it runs out of PP and you have a sum total of +34 boosts (out of the maximum of +42, though admittedly getting +6 attack and accuracy when you have all special attacks and no moves with less than 100% accuracy is annoying). I've been running it in conjunction with a Trick Scarf Gothorita whose sole purpose is to support Gothitelle by tricking someone on a predicted status move so Gothitelle can run a coverage move instead of Rest (the lack of coverage otherwise is annoying what with Dark Pulse being illegal with Shadow Tag, Psychic, Psyshock, HP Fighting, Thunderbolt, and Shadow Ball being walled by entire types, and Signal Beam being much too weak unstabbed for a monoattacker set) and ensuring Gothitelle manages to set up without being crippled.

Personally, I've been running Psychic and HP Fighting in slots two and three, since Psychic/Fighting is only resisted by Psychic types, which rarely run phazing moves, but again Rest is a necessity without some way to ensure an unbroken sub. The main flaw with the set is just that you have to either have eliminated all members of the type you can't hit on your opponent's team before you can do anything or be out against someone who can get you into pinch range but otherwise can't 17 hit KO your sub (such as something locked into Stealth Rock faced with two trappers switching back and forth until Goth gets to 50%).

This set possibly has the worst 4MSS I have ever seen, since if it could run just one more move and have coverage and recovery, I honestly thing it would be one of the most awful things to face ever.

Counters/Checks

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Skuntank (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Stench
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Taunt
- Crunch

Skuntank is one of gothitelle's best counters by far as it get supereffective STAB Crunch on Gothitelle, can prevent her from switching with pursuit, prevent further stat boosts and subs with taunt, and is not weak to any of her STABS. Stench is also gay and annoying but idk if it works behind subs.

Musharna @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
Evs: 252 hp/ 252 spD/ 4 Spatk
Calm Nature

-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Signal Beam
-Moonlight

Like i said previously, this set walls all sets without signal beam, primarily the expert belt and Torment sets. Musharna is able to set up calm minds, while taking minimal damage from either psychic or Hp fighting. An unboosted hidden power bug does 29%-34% damage on a 252hp/ 252Def Gothitelle, while Gothitelle's attacks do laughable damage, allowing Mushy to simply moonlight off the damage once her hp gets low. Gothitelle's lack of reliable recovery means that she will be worn down by repeated hits. The calm mind set without signal beam can also be countered by this Mushy set. She can tank +6 psychics with them only doing 31-37%, while simultaneously setting up calm minds and moonlighting the damage off.

Shedinja @ Focus Sash
Trait: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor
- Protect

This, as Incon pointed out, is probably the best surefire counter to all gothitelle sets, bar the taunt + torment one. (And even that can be countered with protect +prediction). It is immune to all of her move bar the rare (and shitty) dark pulse. He can basically use the biggest creator of setup fodders as set up fodder. This really isnt that viable on a team unless its sole purpose is to counter gothitelle and sux without her on the opps. team. However, if u lose to the emovoir every time, this is a pretty good way to go.

Teammates

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Skuntank (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Stench
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Taunt
- Crunch

Who would have thought that gothitelle's greatest weakness would be also one of her best allies. Skuntank is one of the most effective ways of eliminating the psychics that can give non-chignal beam gothitelle huge problems. It also absorbs the toxic spikes (which suck in nu) that end gothitelle's massacre. Plus, skuntank beats absol one on one, who is another major counter of gothitelle.

Probopass @ Air Balloon
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch

However, a great partner would be the ever beautiful Probopass. It lures in fighting type moves with the Air Balloon attacking set, the author of which I don't know. Air Balloon gives and immunity to Ground types, so it baits in Fighting type moves very well. In this case, Probopass can either Volt Switch into Gothitelle, being taken down to sturdy but getting a switch with no damage, or switch into Gothitelle if you know your opponent is going to use a fighting type move/ a move that can't 2hko. From there, either my Taunt/Torment strategy can work solidly, or the Specs/Expert Belt one can get a kill. I'm not too certain if the Calm Mind one will want to set up, but if it can, so be it.
Probopass also lures in Amoonguss and/or Alomomola, to a small extent; Amoonguss to attempt to stop it from setting up rocks (I always thought this was stupid, just because Probopass is faster anyway), and Alomomola to attempt to scare it out by using Waterfall and Wish Stalling. Gothitelle is easily able to stop both of these with any set, really, as long as it can taunt <3

Audino (M) @ Light Clay
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Wish/Healing Wish
- Toxic

The goal is sort of the same as Probopass, but this set supports the ever fearsome sub+Calm Mind set. You lure in a fighting type, or something that Gothitelle can set up on with Screens. Then, either pass a Wish to it, or if you want more turns Healing Wish works (for the rocks/ if the opponent switches anticipating your switch to Gothitelle). Wish is generally better if you can pull it off. Toxic is used in the last slot so that Torment Gothitelle can whittle the foes hp.

With Regenerator, Audino can do this multiple times, if Healing Wish is not selected, and it ends up benefiting the whole team anyway, so that other teammates can take out Gothitelle's threats. I've used this to my advantage many times, especially because Audino is already bulky.

I'll add all of the good sets, counters, and teammates to their respective places. The person with the best or most creative of each will win the Uxsee Award (which is something that I just made up). I'm unbiased btw so sorry Incon :P

Winners of the Uxsee Award

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Set: Melvni (Pro set and cool art)

Counter: Incon (Shedinja strong)

Teammate: Shovel (Only nob to submit a teammate)

Enjoy the massacre that Gothitelle creates!

Just thought I would add this cuz this thread needs it:

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[erisia]

Well, this thing is definitely going to punish people that try to spam Regenerator cores... which is cool with me! I really don't think this will be broken since the majority of things can just hammer it and at least break its Subs (if not, a lot of things can tank a few Psychics or Psyshocks) However, I think it's going to be a good Pokemon regardless, and it's sure to shake up the metagame! Hopefully RU won't steal this too... don't get any ideas Molk.

Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power Ground
- Trick

This Gothitelle takes a more offensive stance, cutting out the bullshit and just slapping opponents around. Just switch into something you resist (or does peanuts), and wallop opponents until they faint. Psychic isn't amazingly powerful but it'll do the job in a pinch; Signal Beam and Hidden Power Ground hit everything else fairly hard, and they can't switch, so you don't risk losing the momentum as they switch to a response. Trick is also cool, because you can cripple walls like Lickilicky without them being able to switch out and avoid it. Psyshock is another option, but it's honestly pretty weak, so I wouldn't bother.

 

[gali]

I like the idea of a Specs set, but I think a more wallbreaking-oriented set of Psychic/HP Fighting/Thunderbolt/Trick would be a better team player. Incidentially, this set works amazingly well with Belly Drum Linoone, as Gothitelle beats everything that can wall it.

 

[watashi]

This is just in theory, but an anti hazards set that utilizes Taunt could be used since Gothitelle can do a lot of damage to common hazard setters such as Garbodor, Carracosta, Golem, and Probopass with the correct moveset. It would look something like this:

Gothitelle @ Expert Belt
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 100 Spd / 252 SAtk / 156 HP
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Grass Knot
- Taunt

The EV's are used to outrun standard Cacturne, defensive Garbodor, and most Stealth Rock users. Hidden Power Fighting is able to hit both Probopass and Cacturne for super effective damage. Obviously this set won't work as well if the opponent doesn't lead with a hazard user or if they have something faster like Miltank or Gabite, but it does beat a whole lot of common leads. Also, Probopass can simply Volt Switch out after being Taunted but it will still suffer a lot of damage.

 

[melvni]

I like the idea of a Specs set, but I think a more wallbreaking-oriented set of Psychic/HP Fighting/Thunderbolt/Trick would be a better team player. Incidentially, this set works amazingly well with Belly Drum Linoone, as Gothitelle beats everything that can wall it.

Shhh don't let every one know how good a partner Gothitelle is going to make for Linoone. But seriously though, a Pokemon that can destroy entire teams and is only stopped by a very select number of things provided it gets one turn to set up paired with something that literally has "one free turn you can't do anything to stop from happening" sounds great at least in theory. That point you mentioned about it beating everything Linoone can't is just icing on the cake.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Well, Gothitelle also received Heal Bell from BW2, so theoretically a simple SubCM set would be pretty dangerous once Dark and Steel-types are out of the way.

Gothitelle (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Psychic

This kind of set would require teammates like Gurdurr to handle the Dark and Steel types of the tier. But once they are out of the way, Gothitelle can set up on something that doesn't threaten it, probably up up to +6. It can then proceed to sweep, preferably from behind a Sub. Substitute can also be replaced with a coverage move like Shadow Ball to cover Psychic-types. I'll post again later with more possible sets (preferably ones that aren't in the analysis).

 

[Shovel]

(Seriously, Torment is one of the coolest moves in the game!).

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 Spe (these need optimized)
Moves:
- Taunt
- Torment
- Protect
- Psychic

The idea is to come in, and break the wall down slowly. 160 spe allows you to outspeed many walls, but I'm not sure about Misdreavus, or if you should even try against her. Hp allows for Longevity, as well as the defense does much the same, making it's defense slightly higher than is Special Defense (which is till high; 256 and 275). You trap the wall in, taunt it so it is unable to do much, then Torment/Protect it to hell. I can run calcs on how strong Psychic is without investment later, but still; Shadow Tag + Taunt + Torment = The most annoying pokemon out there.

Substitute gains a mention as a pseudo-protect, but it really isn't worth using over Protect. This strategy works best with Toxic Spikes/An absorber, so Garbodor works well with it to do both. Though, Toxic Spikes are generally poor. This is especially well after Amoongus is taken out (which shouldn't be hard). Also, a dark type destroyer such as 252 HP/ 252 SpAtk / 4SpDef Probopass with Earth Power is good for taking out the incredibly scary Skuntank, who might think to use Taunt on Probopass. A Will-O-Wisp/Scald user can help take out Absol and Skuntank (by making them weak), just please, I beg, don't use Wartortle. Physically defensive Rotom-S does pretty well at this too, and is commonly seen as a Scarfer anyway, so Sucker the Punch would bt likely to happen if you can bluff well. Even if not, taking a hit is easy.

As previously mentioned, Gurdurr makes a fine partner to take out Steel types and Dark types, while they can hardly do anything in return (even Absol's Psycho Cut as long as it doesnt crit).

0SpAtk Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/0SpDef Amoonguss (Neutral): 51% - 61% (224 - 266 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Edit 9001: 0SpAtk Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Eviolite Gurdurr (+SpDef): 35% - 43% (134 - 162 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

That's pretty cool. Especially if the opposing Gurdurr runs Ice Punch. I may need to add more defense to stand up to it, however.

 

[uxsee]

Well, Gothitelle also received Heal Bell from BW2, so theoretically a simple SubCM set would be pretty dangerous once Dark and Steel-types are out of the way.

Gothitelle (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Heal Bell
- Psychic

This kind of set would require teammates like Gurdurr to handle the Dark and Steel types of the tier. But once they are out of the way, Gothitelle can set up on something that doesn't threaten it, probably up up to +6. It can then proceed to sweep, preferably from behind a Sub. Substitute can also be replaced with a coverage move like Shadow Ball to cover Psychic-types. I'll post again later with more possible sets (preferably ones that aren't in the analysis).

To be honest, I find heal bell somewhat redundant with sub as it already blocks status so i say either one or the other, and sub is the better option imo. Guys plz talk about counters, teammates, and effect on meta too . :D

 

[Shovel]

I have a whole paragraph about about teammates, albeit tiny, lmao.

Anyway, I think Gothitelle has the potential to move up to at least Ru. It's bulk is really amazing, especially with access to Calm Mind. The only upsetting thing is the Speed; but, with bulk (70/95/110), and a high base 95 Special Attack, Gothitelle doesn't exectly need speed.

I think someone should try to find a Trick Room set for it. I know 149 lowest speed isn't the slowest abuser, but I think it is readily agreeable that Gothitelle could make a decent Choice Specs/Expert Belt Sweeper. This only adds on to the already super viable Trick Room teams.

Also, as a Heal Bell user, it finds a little bit of competition from Grumpig (lolIknow). Grumpig has a high Hp stat, a bit lower defense, a bit lower Special defense, and Higher Speed. Grumpig is also a faster Taunt user. While Gothitelle does have the Shadow Tag ability, Grumpig finds it's niche with the Thick Fat ability. Gothitelle, in this respect, does have a higher base Special Attack, letting it dish out greater damage when not invested. They both have the potential to set up screens, but Grumpig's Thick Fat, I think, ties with Shadow Tag as equally effect, but situational.

I dont want to bring Gardevoir up because 1. Grumpig is cooler. 2. With Shadow Tag I think Gothitelle is better at trapping and such, which Gardevoir cant do anyway.

Just my thoughts. Grumpig is pretty underrated and almost irrelevant.

 

[Fun With Knives]

Two big counters worth noting are Eelektross and Kadabra. Gothitelle's full investment in Defense leaves it to be almost definitely (96%) 2HKOed by Eelektross's STAB Thunderbolt, and 2HKOed by Kadabra's Shadow Ball, and will still be 2HKOed if it Tormetnts Kadabra into using Signal Beam.

 

[melvni]

Also, as a Heal Bell user, it finds a little bit of competition from Grumpig (lolIknow). Grumpig has a high Hp stat, a bit lower defense, a bit lower Special defense, and Higher Speed. Grumpig is also a faster Taunt user. While Gothitelle does have the Shadow Tag ability, Grumpig finds it's niche with the Thick Fat ability. Gothitelle, in this respect, does have a higher base Special Attack, letting it dish out greater damage when not invested. They both have the potential to set up screens, but Grumpig's Thick Fat, I think, ties with Shadow Tag as equally effect, but situational.

I dont want to bring Gardevoir up because 1. Grumpig is cooler. 2. With Shadow Tag I think Gothitelle is better at trapping and such, which Gardevoir cant do anyway.

Just my thoughts. Grumpig is pretty underrated and almost irrelevant.

If Gothitelle has any competition from Grumpig as a Heal Beller, it's going to be very minor. Gothitelle's 70/95/110 bulk is almost as good as Grumpig's 80/65/110 on the Special Side and much better on the physical side (which is also more important I would suppose in a more physically oriented tier). Plus, Shadow Tag means you won't lose any momentum when you use Heal Bell. Imagine two scenarios, one where Grumpig is your Heal Beller and one where Gothitelle is. In scenario one, your opponent just switches in a Grumpig check or counter and suddenly you're on the defensive; in scenario two, it's impossible for your opponent to do that to Gothitelle.

Also @FLCL: would Magic Coat have any viability on your set over Taunt or one of the attacks? It would either restrict coverage or entail mind-games I suppose, but you could bounce those hazards back instead of simply stopping them from being set up.

 

[Shovel]

Tormetnts Kadabra into using Signal Beam.

See, it just feels awesome to see that in a conversation.

I know my set wouldn't be fit for such threats. Kadabra is a threat to any lacking Calm Mind boosts/SpDef investment, if the Kadabra has a sash.

Can someone run a damage calc for Choice Specs Psychic vs Eelektross, I'd actually like to see if that works.

252SpAtk Choice Specs Gothitelle (+SAtk) Psychic vs 4HP/0SpDef Leftovers Levitate Eelektross (Neutral): 75% - 88% (235 - 277 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

You don't see too many with SpDef investment + Coil, but that could probably take a hit a lot better, no calcs needed.

Edit: @Melvni: I still believe Grumpig is a viable argument, in the slightest. Just for the fact of Thick fat, and the abundance of fire/ice coverage justifies this a bit better, and it has a faster Taunt.

However, obviously the benefit of Shadow Tag Heal Bell is something you wouldn't want to pass up, I do see that.

Grumpig Shenanigans should definitely stop here

 

[uxsee]

Two big counters worth noting are Eelektross and Kadabra. Gothitelle's full investment in Defense leaves it to be almost definitely (96%) 2HKOed by Eelektross's STAB Thunderbolt, and 2HKOed by Kadabra's Shadow Ball, and will still be 2HKOed if it Tormetnts Kadabra into using Signal Beam.

Umm what?

Both calcs i use say:

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Eelektross (+SpAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gothitelle: 59.3% - 69.77% (2 hits to KO). It still 2hkoes, but do it right :P

 

[Fun With Knives]

Grumpig is pretty much done now until Gothitelle moves up or until Confuse Ray becomes part of the meta.

Gardevoir is specially tougher and hits harder, and can abuse Trace and Synchronize.

Gothitelle is a better physical tanker and can trap with Shadow Tag, but it's slower.

Oh, and Trace nullifies Shadow Tag, returning Gardevoir to its spot as best waifu.

Giggity.

 

[Explorer]

This is the set I like:

Gothitelle (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP/128 Def/128 SpD
Nature: Calm
-Toxic
-Protect
-Psyshock
-Foul Play

Toxic + Protect allows Gothitelle to Toxic-stall opponents to their death, and Gothitelle is fairly bulky, so that's not terribly difficult. Psyshock allows it to use its good Special attack to hurt targets with low defense, plus it has STAB and a good 80 BP. Lastly, Foul Play crushes physical attackers such as SD Feraligatr and Druddigon.

 

[TROP]

Lastly, Foul Play crushes physical attackers such as SD Feraligatr and Druddigon.

Shit, when did these guys drop?

Too lazy to post sets, but Goth only has 2(possibly 3) sets worth using. Choice Specs/Scarf, SubCM, and the Taunt+Torment+Protect one (this is the possibly viable set).

 

[Fun With Knives]

Assuming Gothitelle has 252 HP and 0 SpDef

252 SpA Neutral Nature Gardevoir Shadow Ball: 46.51-54.65 (3HKO, 2HKO after one Spikes or Stealth Rock)

Above with Life Orb: 60.46-70.93 (2HKO, OHKO after 2+ Spikes and Stealth Rock)

Assuming 4 HP, 0 SpDef Gardevoir

4 SpA Neutral Nature Gothitelle Psychic: 15.1-17.98

4 SpA Neutral Nature Gothitelle Psyshock: 21.58-25.17

 

[Incon]

Hiya Uxsee! This is a great thread. I suppose ill contribute with a counter that walls all Gothitelle sets without Signal Beam.

Musharna @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
Evs: 252 hp/ 252 spD/ 4 Spatk
Calm Nature

-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Signal Beam
-Moonlight

Like i said previously, this set walls all sets without signal beam, primarily the expert belt and Torment sets. Musharna is able to set up calm minds, while taking minimal damage from either psychic or Hp fighting. An unboosted hidden power bug does 29%-34% damage on a 252hp/ 252Def Gothitelle, while Gothitelle's attacks do laughable damage, allowing Mushy to simply moonlight off the damage once her hp gets low. Gothitelle's lack of reliable recovery means that she will be worn down by repeated hits. The calm mind set without signal beam can also be countered by this Mushy set. She can tank +6 psychics with them only doing 31-37%, while simultaneously setting up calm minds and moonlighting the damage off. To counter Gothitelle alone, the evs should be what i previously stated, however to be a viable calm minder outside of this situation, Mushy should run 252hp/ 252Def/ 4spAtk with a bold nature. Either evs are fine as both tank unboosted psychics and Hp fightings.

Just some proof:

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-0SpAtk Musharna (Neutral) Hidden Power (Bug) vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Gothitelle (Neutral): 29% - 34% (100 - 118 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

-0SpAtk Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Musharna (+SpDef): 7% - 9% (34 - 41 HP). Guaranteed 13HKO.

-4SpAtk +6 Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Musharna (+SpDef): 31% - 37% (138 - 163 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

Id also like to mention that Shedinja completely walls all of her sets. Of all the sets mentioned, he cannot be touched due to Wonder Guard besides being tricked the choice specs. Shedinja is gimmicky at best but if you need a full proof counter to Gothitelle, hes your man.

(Ps, i think you should be a little biased just this once :D)

 

[uxsee]

Hiya Uxsee! This is a great thread. I suppose ill contribute with a counter that walls all Gothitelle sets without Signal Beam.

Musharna @ Leftovers
Trait: Synchronize
Evs: 252 hp/ 252 spD/ 4 Spatk
Calm Nature

-Calm Mind
-Psychic
-Hidden Power Bug
-Moonlight

Like i said previously, this set walls all sets without signal beam, primarily the expert belt and Torment sets. Musharna is able to set up calm minds, while taking minimal damage from either psychic or Hp fighting. An unboosted hidden power bug does 29%-34% damage on a 252hp/ 252Def Gothitelle, while Gothitelle's attacks do laughable damage, allowing Mushy to simply moonlight off the damage once her hp gets low. Gothitelle's lack of reliable recovery means that she will be worn down by repeated hits. The calm mind set without signal beam can also be countered by this Mushy set. She can tank +6 psychics with them only doing 31-37%, while simultaneously setting up calm minds and moonlighting the damage off.

Just some proof:

Hide

-0SpAtk Musharna (Neutral) Hidden Power (Bug) vs 252HP/0SpDef Leftovers Gothitelle (Neutral): 29% - 34% (100 - 118 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

-0SpAtk Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Musharna (+SpDef): 7% - 9% (34 - 41 HP). Guaranteed 13HKO.

-4SpAtk +6 Gothitelle (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Musharna (+SpDef): 31% - 37% (138 - 163 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

Id also like to mention that Shedinja completely walls all of her sets. Of all the sets mentioned, he cannot be touched due to Wonder Guard besides being tricked the choice specs. Shedinja is gimmicky at best but if you need a full proof counter to Gothitelle, hes your man.

(Ps, i think you should be a little biased just this once :D)

Well, first off great set :D. My only nitpick is that he should have chignal beam instead of hp bug as its better :P. Plus, to be viable as a calm minder outside of this scenario, it should be bold max def b/c thats cool.

 

[uxsee]

Shit, when did these guys drop?

Too lazy to post sets, but Goth only has 2(possibly 3) sets worth using. Choice Specs/Scarf, SubCM, and the Taunt+Torment+Protect one (this is the possibly viable set).

They didnt drop. I think explorer thinks this is the ru thread (not sure though). But that does work against certain physical mons in nu...

 

[Shovel]

I just want to state, the TauntTorment set I posted probably isnt as reliable (which is obvious) and maybe a choice Specs set, but I think that with a lot of teams running stall pokemon/ Choice Banded fighting type moves (though the use has gone down because of ToxicBoost Zangoose), it's possible. Im mainly speaking of the famous regenerator core.

However, a great partner would be the ever beautiful Probopass. It lures in fighting type moves with the Air Balloon attacking set, the author of which I don't know. Air Balloon gives and immunity to Ground types, so it baits in Fighting type moves very well. In this case, Probopass can either Volt Switch into Gothitelle, being taken down to sturdy but getting a switch with no damage, or switch into Gothitelle if you know your opponent is going to use a fighting type move/ a move that can't 2hko. From there, either my Taunt/Torment strategy can work solidly, or the Specs/Expert Belt one can get a kill. I'm not too certain if the Calm Mind one will want to set up, but if it can, so be it.
Probopass also lures in Amoonguss and/or Alomomola, to a small extent; Amoonguss to attempt to stop it from setting up rocks (I always thought this was stupid, just because Probopass is faster anyway), and Alomomola to attempt to scare it out by using Waterfall and Wish Stalling. Gothitelle is easily able to stop both of these with any set, really, as long as it can taunt <3

Probopass @ Air Balloon
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Volt Switch​

 

[JacobJinglepocket]

Here's a set I've theorymonned back when I was first experimenting with Zangoose:

Gothitelle@Choice Scarf
Trait: Shadow Tag
Nature: Modest
EVs: 40 HP, 252 SpAtk, 216 Spe
~Psychic
~Shadow Ball
~Hidden Power [Fighting]/Thunderbolt/Grass Knot/Energy Ball
~Trick

A simple set I developed specifically to trap and deal with several of Zangoose's checks--mainly Haunter. Psychic is the obligatory STAB option; Shadow Ball for coverage (though Gothitelle really wants to use Dark Pulse instead--it's a shame it's illegal with her DW ability); Hidden Power Fighting to round out her neutral coverage, though attacks like Thunderbolt and Grass Knot can be used to counter specific threats like Golem or Alomomola; and, finally, Trick to screw over walls by locking them into one move.

216 Speed EVs with a neutral nature outspeeds all positive Max speed base 95s by one point, scoring the KO on such threats such as Haunter, while the rest is dumped into HP for added bulk. The 252 EVs in SpAtk and positive nature are so Gothitelle can hit as hard as possible. An alternate spread of 120 HP/252 SpAtk/136 Spe with a Timid nature can be used for more bulk while still outspeeding Haunter, but Gothitelle sorely misses the power granted by a Modest nature.

 

[Dell]

Will come up with sets later, just want to talk about Gothitelle for a bit.

Gothitelle will easily change the metagame. It allows for easy KO's when it traps something that can't harm it, allowing for your other offensive Pokemon to run rampant. It has the ability to setup on a very large number of defensive threats to say. With that being said, players will be essentially running certain Pokemon and specific spreads so that they can avoid being setup/revenge killed on so many scenario cases.

Gothitelle makes it so that certain Pokemon combinations will no longer be as viable, or simply nonviable. A popular core of Amoonguss/Alomomola/Garbodor will be shut down by this particular Pokemon. It doesn't have to limit itself to a certain set to be successful, especially if it has teammates to handle the faster Pokemon on the opponent's team.

Shed Shell seems to be quite reliable, as the user can almost effortlessly switch into Skuntank and Absol to trap it for the easy KO. Forgoing Leftovers would generally suck, though, as that counts for the restriction of teambuilding.

Gothielle has flaws though. Depending on the set, most Dark-type trappers and Encore Cacturne can easily shut it down effortlessly. It doesn't have the sheer power to make many threats think twice before switching in, and it's coverage isn't the most desirable at times. Needless to say, it can be a pain to deal with without Bug/Dark.

Not to say that Gothitelle will be banned or not, I'm just saying that it will definitely cause a centralizing impact in the usage statistics.

 

[Singe]

Gothitelle with Shadow Tag and a good Spd can make use of Charm for allowing her to hold her own against physical attackers she can out speed. Calm Mind like crazy. Leftovers to regain HP. Maybe a Substitute to take attacks would allow her to land a Charm if the opponent drops another Physical. The last move for something that can hit anything.

 

[NuclearMedicineT]

Alright so after quite a few battles with Gothitelle here's what I can tell.
Gothitelle is probably the best Pokemon in the entire meta at removing the Regenerator core, very useful for Golurk, Fraxure, Emboar and things like that. I have been testing out the specs set and an offensive CM set I think is pretty cool.

Hide

Gothitelle @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

I feel that specs wasn't as effective as I thought. It can kill something right away if it comes in safely but after that it pretty much sits and does nothing. It is pretty depending on trapping the right poke at the right time. A CM set is different as it has the ability to sweep after a successful trap but it can still be taken down if your opponent packs something with Sucker Punch. It really isn't as broken as I thought at first but it is definitely a lot of fun. I hope it will stay around in NU for a while.