it was something i happened to have at the time when i still searching through its abilities but yeah frisk will be better gotta switch that
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Pokémon Gourgeist
- Thread starter Shroomisaur
- Start date
- Status
Here's an idea for a set:
HAIL TO THE SUPER SIZE PUMPKIN KING, BABY
Frisk
Choice Scarf
Careful
252hp 252spdef 4att
-Seed Bomb / Leech Seed
-Wil o Wisp
-Shadow Sneak
-Trick
Switch into pokemon that is trying to stall you out with lefties. Scout the lefties with Frisk. Steal the lefties. Burn them and then watch them squirm. Assuming they cannot be burned, seed them and then absorb their life force with leech seed. I'm not 100% sure about the EV spread, or the item, but it seems pretty good.
Tried this with Flame Orb and it worked pretty well as an anti-lead.
HAIL TO THE SUPER SIZE PUMPKIN KING, BABY
Frisk
Choice Scarf
Careful
252hp 252spdef 4att
-Seed Bomb / Leech Seed
-Wil o Wisp
-Shadow Sneak
-Trick
Switch into pokemon that is trying to stall you out with lefties. Scout the lefties with Frisk. Steal the lefties. Burn them and then watch them squirm. Assuming they cannot be burned, seed them and then absorb their life force with leech seed. I'm not 100% sure about the EV spread, or the item, but it seems pretty good.
Tried this with Flame Orb and it worked pretty well as an anti-lead.
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Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
I've actually been using TrickScarf Gourgeist-Small lately, one of a few different sets I'm testing! It works quite well since no one expects scarf gourgeist, and a lot of the stuff that would set up on defensive Gourgeists is crippled by Trick:
Gourgeist-S @ Choice Scarf
Frisk, Jolly
100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
- Seed Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick
- Rock Slide / Destiny Bond
This set can outspeed +2 Gorebyss and +1 neutral-natured base 100s like Volcarona and hit them hard if you haven't tricked your scarf away yet! Thoughts? FastFlygon
Gourgeist-S @ Choice Scarf
Frisk, Jolly
100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
- Seed Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick
- Rock Slide / Destiny Bond
This set can outspeed +2 Gorebyss and +1 neutral-natured base 100s like Volcarona and hit them hard if you haven't tricked your scarf away yet! Thoughts? FastFlygon
if this thing gets put in upper tiers ill cry thats my thought lol. I love trolling people with this guy in makeshift low tier teams
Shroomisaur looks like an interesting concept for sure, I don't know why I hadn't considered the possibiliy of trickscarf on something as nimble as this. It's a shame you're not strong enough to OHKO bulky Volc or Gorebyss though, I would consider reducing the attack EVs down to 168 since you still get the OHKO on offensive Volc and the 2HKO on Gorebyss and you free up a bunch more EVs for bulk. You also still OHKO Offensive Starmie 100% of the time after LO and SR if you end up coming in on Rapid Spin, Ice Beam easily OHKOs you however. The extra bulk from 184 HP makes you a better check to Excadrill since +0 Rock Slide now has basically no chance to 3HKO you, especially if you trick it and get some leftovers.
I may end up having a play with this set later, if that's the case I'll probably post some more thoughts then.
I may end up having a play with this set later, if that's the case I'll probably post some more thoughts then.
I don't think that replay is very good, mainly because the set you're using isn't very good. Flame Charge sucks on Gourgeist.
Here's the set I use:
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 100 SDef / 252 HP / 156 Def (EVs can be changed a little)
Impish Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Seed Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp
- Leech Seed
I have an offensive super gourgeist on my pokebank OU team and he actually works very well as a hit-and-run bulky physical attacker/revenge killer/spin blocker with my set
Gourgeist-Super @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Att, HP/4 Def
Adamant Nature
Trick-or-Treat
Shadow Sneak
Seed Bomb
WoW
Basically, use this set to force a switch and they'll most likely go into their sweeper that would want to set up on a gourgeist. Use Trick-or-Treat on the switch turning their sweeper into a ghost type then follow up with a STAB, priority, super effective shadow sneak that'll one shot, if not severely damage their sweeper. A logical player will try and set up with their sweeper the very turn you just rekt him with shadow sneak. If you know he'll switch into his sweeper and you know that your main damage combo will only 3 shot their sweeper, you can also cripple their sweeper with WoW on the switch. He'll be forced to switch and if he doesn't he'll take another priority shadow sneak and die. Gourgeist-Super can also revenge kill very well with shadow sneak and ofc. spin block with his ghost typing. However, Gourgeist won't be able to OHKO the sweeper, ever, with his shadow sneak so he needs a lot of supporting and setting up outside of his Trick-or-Treat-Shadow Sneak combo e.g. on my team with gourgeist I have a prankster-spikes-sash klefki to garuntee 2 layers of spikes and an avalugg with roar to force a lot of switches and harass them with spikes. With at least 2 layers of spikes(3 being much more likely) Gourgeist's combo will be able to most likely one shot their sweeper, though. He's certainly difficult to play in the higher tiers but he still can work very well. I'll try and get a good replay showing off his potential for you guys to see.
Gourgeist-Super @ Life Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 Att, HP/4 Def
Adamant Nature
Trick-or-Treat
Shadow Sneak
Seed Bomb
WoW
Basically, use this set to force a switch and they'll most likely go into their sweeper that would want to set up on a gourgeist. Use Trick-or-Treat on the switch turning their sweeper into a ghost type then follow up with a STAB, priority, super effective shadow sneak that'll one shot, if not severely damage their sweeper. A logical player will try and set up with their sweeper the very turn you just rekt him with shadow sneak. If you know he'll switch into his sweeper and you know that your main damage combo will only 3 shot their sweeper, you can also cripple their sweeper with WoW on the switch. He'll be forced to switch and if he doesn't he'll take another priority shadow sneak and die. Gourgeist-Super can also revenge kill very well with shadow sneak and ofc. spin block with his ghost typing. However, Gourgeist won't be able to OHKO the sweeper, ever, with his shadow sneak so he needs a lot of supporting and setting up outside of his Trick-or-Treat-Shadow Sneak combo e.g. on my team with gourgeist I have a prankster-spikes-sash klefki to garuntee 2 layers of spikes and an avalugg with roar to force a lot of switches and harass them with spikes. With at least 2 layers of spikes(3 being much more likely) Gourgeist's combo will be able to most likely one shot their sweeper, though. He's certainly difficult to play in the higher tiers but he still can work very well. I'll try and get a good replay showing off his potential for you guys to see.
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It was actually intended to be Phantom Force, but I couln't use it because of a PS! glitch so I decided to test Flame Charge and see if it was worthwhile. My preview does have a defensive set, although I used different EVs so mine can beat CB Terrakion and didn't bother with Shadow Sneak because it's pathetically weak unless you use attack EVs. Although Pain Split is kind of gimped by your high HP, it does give you more recovery than just Leech Seed, so I used that on mine. The set I used in the replay is Seed Bomb/Explosion/Shadow Sneak/Flame Charge with a Choice Band, though like I said Flame Charge is meant to be Phantom Force. Flame Charge isn't a total waste since you can use it to OHKO Scizor and Genesect when they try to switch into Seed Bomb. That set has very specific EVs that allow it to beat Starmie even if it switches into Ice Beam which is pretty handy.
I don't think Trick-or-Treat is worth anything because a competent player will switch out as soon as you use it. On top of that, without a band Shadow Sneak really does fuck all even if you hit super effectively, I mean LO sneak doesn't even OHKO 4 HP Gengar 100% of the time, that's pretty pathetic.
FastFlygon You're right about uninvested Shadow Sneak being weak. I might replace it with protect to stall leech seed and WoW turns. It would be awesome if Gourgeist had some reliable recovery.
Josh Morales Trick or Treat is a waste of a moveslot IMO. Sadly, Gourgeist doesn't get many coverage moves to use on a offensive set so I'm not sure what to put there (I also can't check because I'm on my phone).
Josh Morales Trick or Treat is a waste of a moveslot IMO. Sadly, Gourgeist doesn't get many coverage moves to use on a offensive set so I'm not sure what to put there (I also can't check because I'm on my phone).
Omg this pokemon is great. I have a replay where i put this in a makeshift NUTeam and played a friend. While NU isnt his tier per se i didnt think through predictions with Probopass and Gourgeist id 6-0. Its on my channel DrStunJosh.
Anyways i have another replay going up tmrw where this Jack-o-lantern took an Outrage from ScarfChomp which actually surprised me. It has good def but i have no EVs in def so i didnt expect to take it so well
Anyways i have another replay going up tmrw where this Jack-o-lantern took an Outrage from ScarfChomp which actually surprised me. It has good def but i have no EVs in def so i didnt expect to take it so well
Right now Im using:
Gourgeist-Small @ Flame Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP, 204 SDef, 50 Speed
Careful Nature
Trick
Shadow Sneak
Confuse Ray
Leech Seed
I'm debating using Leftovers and WoW, but I like the idea of denying opposing pokemon their own item and also burning it.
Works very good stall/annoy, but it really gets crippled when paralyzed.
Gourgeist-Small @ Flame Orb
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP, 204 SDef, 50 Speed
Careful Nature
Trick
Shadow Sneak
Confuse Ray
Leech Seed
I'm debating using Leftovers and WoW, but I like the idea of denying opposing pokemon their own item and also burning it.
Works very good stall/annoy, but it really gets crippled when paralyzed.
I think leftovers and will-o-wisp, like you say, are the best option. Trick seems nice, but it only works once in the whole match and there's the risk that you'll waste it on a wall/special sweeper, or worse: trick yourself a choice item. This isn't very good when you have access to WoW. (EDIT: I forgot to mention, but obviously it can burn you instead if the opponent protects/ uses Substitute...)
I also don't like Confuse Ray, because confusion isn't reliable. It's annoying to face, but not really threatening. If it works for you, fine. Otherwise, I would suggest replacing it with something like seed bomb, for a second, stronger STAB; Substitute, forming the SubSeed combo; or Destiny Bond, which can be useful since you are using the Gourgeist's faster forme.
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Flame Orb is never a good option on Pokemon that don't like being burned.
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
That's a great point. The only thing that irks me Gourgeist's base attack, it's just a tiny bit too low to grab those OHKO's. And yet, if you run adamant, you miss out on outspeeding those targets I mentioned. Your suggested EV spread makes a lot of sense - after playtesting this TrickScarf build I agree with you, it could always use the extra bulk and it still grabs the important KOs with 168 Atk. Thanks, let me know if you get good use out of it!
Not to mention, a Pokemon that already has access to Will-O-Wisp! Trick is fun, but it's best used with a Choice Item yourself, either Band for the Super Size form, or Scarf for Small. This can screw up a potential wall or counter much more than a Flame Orb, and you can still hit them with WoW multiple times after tricking your Scarf while TrickOrb is a one-and-done.
Anyway, I'll be finishing up my official analysis of Gourgeist-S tonight and then I'll update this OP as well. The biggest change is that special defense investment just isn't worth it on Gourgeist, because it's still too vulnerable to Ice Beams and Fire Blasts to avoid being KO'd. Focusing on making the most of Gourgeist's physical bulk allows it to check threats like Excadrill much more easily!
Gourgeist with max HP and SpDef gets 2HKO by LO Aegislash's ShadowSneak without +2 from SD. Thats bulky...and being faster it can drop a wilowisp before Aegis can SD.
I'll note, and I feel this will be relevant in the coming months, that Gourgeist is an excellent check to Mega-Kangaskhan.
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band (custom) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 147-173 (39.3 - 46.25%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Even after a Power Up Punch, M-Kangaskhan fails to reliably 2HKO Gourgeist, who can in turn Will-O-Wisp and stall out (or Leech Seed a fire switch in, whatever).
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band (custom) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 147-173 (39.3 - 46.25%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Even after a Power Up Punch, M-Kangaskhan fails to reliably 2HKO Gourgeist, who can in turn Will-O-Wisp and stall out (or Leech Seed a fire switch in, whatever).
Even better, just switch in Gourgeist directly in on Mega-Kanga before Power-Up Punch. Without Scrappy, standard Mega-Kanga is helpless before Gourgeist (and Trevenant).
Just a question, is it better for bulky Gourgeist to run max EVs on Def/SpDef instead of HP to take advantage of Pain Split's mechanics?
LeechSeed > PainSplit (albiet watch for grasstypes).
Run MaxHP and MaxSpdef (my opinion). When you can take a scarfed Chomps outrage 46%dmg with 0defense EVs you know you are good. If you are paranoiaed then run 200hp/56def/252spdef so you have at least def evs
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