Pokémon Greninja

[Dinosaurman]

Shadow sneak seems likes a waste considering how little it does and how fast greninja is, Mach punch isn't even that common and it won't help you against much else. Seems like a very niche move for something that doesn't really need it

 

[Kaifi]

I go with mixed greninja.
Shadow sneak for priority that beats most priority and to help it resist attacks like mach punch and other normal and fighting attacks. Beats gengar too as it tries to focus blast greninja only for the attack to become worth less as it gains its ghost typing.
Ice beam
Surf
HP grass for rotom w especially and other common water types that would resist both ice and water attacks. Grass knot is a joke given how common rotom w is.

4 atk, 252 speed with positive speed nature and negative defense nature, 252 spcl at with life orb.

Hidden Power Grass isn't much better against Rotom-W, 3HKO Physically defensive Rotom-W at worst and 4HKOing Specially Defensive Rotom-W. Grass Knot does more to Jellicent, Vaporeon, and Tyranitar than HP Grass.

This is my personal favorite Greninja set:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 56 Atk / 200 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Sneak/Taunt
- U-turn​

This set acts as a good mixed sweeper and powerful Stall Breaker. While it struggles against Bulky waters, and is pretty frail, but stall teams can fall to this set. Hydro Pump is a main powerful attack. Grass Knot hits most bulky waters harder than HP Grass. Shadow Sneak is valuable priority to get rid of prankster users, and taunt can stop any stall team from using status or entry hazards on your team. And U-turn can be used to flee from threats like Rotom-W, Scizor, and Ferrothon.

 

[Magicfire]

Shadow Sneak is valuable priority to get rid of prankster users

Shadow Sneak is such a waste of a moveslot. I get that it has priority, but Dark Pulse still hits everything that Shadow Sneak hits, but way, way harder. Greninja already is exceptionally Speedy, and Shadow Sneak is just a weak priority move that it doesn't need at all. Basically, it takes away the moveslot that could be a coverage move or U-Turn.

 

[sparktrain]

I've been running LO Greninja with Surf/Ice Beam/Dark Pulse/HP Fire, and I've found that it's really, really useful late game. 122 base speed and STAB on every move really gets the job done if you have some hazards down or your opponent's team has been weakened. I'm a huge fan of Protean; I've been in some situations where I finish off an opponent with a move that changes Greninja to an advantageous type based on the opponent's remaining team. Sure, its bulk is kinda sucky, but hey nothing's perfect.

I haven't tried any supporting sets yet, even though that blazing fast Taunt and Spikes looks amazing. It can even spinblock with Shadow Sneak, but it's not quite as useful because Defog exists. Its role as a supporter will likely be taken over by Deo-S when Pokebank is released, seeing as it can set up rocks, spikes, and Taunt much faster.

 

[Missino]

Okay, I've been testing it out a bit, but this is what's been working for me:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EV's: 90 Atk / 166 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid
- HP Fire / Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

This was supposed to be a mixed set, and has fared rather decently so far. I've been running Scald instead of Hydro pump for the higher accuracy and the burn chance, finding that Atk cut helpful in keeping Greninja alive. As for HP Fire over Dark pulse, it was in hopes of knocking around Ferrothorn and Scisor.

 

[SlashingTires]

Okay, I've been testing it out a bit, but this is what's been working for me:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EV's: 90 Atk / 166 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid
- HP Fire / Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

This was supposed to be a mixed set, and has fared rather decently so far. I've been running Scald instead of Hydro pump for the higher accuracy and the burn chance, finding that Atk cut helpful in keeping Greninja alive. As for HP Fire over Dark pulse, it was in hopes of knocking around Ferrothorn and Scisor.

do you actually find any value in those 90 attack EVs considering it literally only helps U-Turn and you have timid...

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Okay, I've been testing it out a bit, but this is what's been working for me:

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EV's: 90 Atk / 166 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid
- HP Fire / Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam

This was supposed to be a mixed set, and has fared rather decently so far. I've been running Scald instead of Hydro pump for the higher accuracy and the burn chance, finding that Atk cut helpful in keeping Greninja alive. As for HP Fire over Dark pulse, it was in hopes of knocking around Ferrothorn and Scisor.

I believe you've split an EV into half seeing as 90 and 166 are both not divisible by 4, so you've wasted a point somewhere. This is basically the same as the EV spread being advocated by VCrowe and ArdentSun (but without the split EV), except with a Timid nature instead of Hasty/Naive (which is odd, considering you're trying to go 'mixed'). Personally I'm not a huge fan of it but it probably has some use for some people, and the merits have been debated extensively already, but it definitely already exists in this thread.

 

[kabbes]

No one has mentioned a choice set. I know it wouldnt be as tricksy for protean ability but hear me out. Also no one has said anything about a full physical set so heres the choice band

Greninja Choice Band
ability: protean
nature: jolly/adamant
EVs: 4 HP 252 Att 252 Spd
Moveset:
water shuriken/waterfall
night slash
u-turn
rock slide/waterfall/power up punch

seeing how his attack isnt much lower than his spec attack and his speed is amazing giving him that band boost allows him to puch holes while access to u-turn allows him to scout. Tge first slot is really just stab preference. If your team has problems with certain scarfers than priority may be the better option (note water shuriken hits for 45 power or higher 75% of the time outclassing other priority like bullet/ mach punch) however with such high speed priority can be traded for power quite easily. Niggt slash gives dual stab and takes care of starmie celebi jellicent and aegislash (although in slashs case priority may be preferred). U-turn should be obvious plus with pritean it also gets stab and wrecks specially deffensive celebi that thinks it can take a dark pulse. Tge last slot is kind of weird however and should be tailored to your team. Rock slide hits gyarados nite and mence. Waterfall can be used as a fall back when you need more power if youre running shuriken as well and power up punch allows you to deal with ferrothorn (and boost your band haha) who otherwise checks the set, although stab u-turn does decent damage.

anyways just a thought and hopefully viable take on such a rad starter

This is basically the set I am running, except with torrent (mostly because I haven't yet been arsed to find a protean Greninja), and an undecided fourth moveslot (I have experimented with all sorts, and none really seem to be ideal). Waterfall/Night Slash/U-turn, and using her as a late sweeper/revenge killer.

I have baton pass on Mega-Mawile too, so one strategy is to SD the fairy then baton pass to Greninja on the opponent's switch, giving the frog a ready set-up. Whatever has been switched in doesn't tend to like a fast water/dark sweeper coming in on it.

 

[Fundance]

Any thoughts about using Extrasensory to counter bulky poison types who might try to come in and absorb toxic spikes on a spiker set? I know it doesn't give as great coverage, but I've noticed poison types like Tentacruel are really not too threatened coming in on me when all I have is Surf and Ice Beam for coverage. Extrasensory does hit Crobat hard (one of the most common Defog users at the moment) though Mandibuzz is immune (the other, other Defog user).

 

[Kadabrium]

Even CB waterfall in rain can't 2hko skarm. without both of them it cant 2hko even chansey.

 

[kabbes]

Even CB waterfall in rain can't 2hko skarm. without both of them it cant 2hko even chansey.

I'm not going to tackle Skarmory or Chansey with Greninja though, unless she's already received a Sword Dance baton pass from M-Mawile. I have others in the team equipped for those jobs. Greninja is there to handle what the others can't.

 

[Enastorian]

I like using a protean, rash natured one, holding a splash plate, that knows hydro pump, dark pulse, extrasensory, and hidden power flying, with 252 in special attack, 252 in speed, and the rest, just do whatever you want with them.

 

[Dinosaurman]

Now I love innovative sets and creativity as much as the next person, but I feel like people are trying too hard with Greninja. 90 ATK Evs timid nature, or hp grass/flying. I mean shadow sneak is one thing but I just think this stuff is a little too much.

Greninja's best sets are in the op already, that's not to say let's call it a day and go home but I think some people need to accept that random stuff just is massively inferior to Hasty/Naive 4 ATK max speed max spatk, u-turn surf/hydro dark pulse and ice beam. I mean if you're running a choice specs set (waste of protean anyway) I could imagine some sort of hidden power, but not hp flying, the only one id consider is hp fire for Ferro or hp grass (probably not in reality) for the massive anti meta mon right now, Quagsire.

 

[Schpoonman]

Now I love innovative sets and creativity as much as the next person, but I feel like people are trying too hard with Greninja. 90 ATK Evs timid nature, or hp grass/flying. I mean shadow sneak is one thing but I just think this stuff is a little too much.

Greninja's best sets are in the op already, that's not to say let's call it a day and go home but I think some people need to accept that random stuff just is massively inferior to Hasty/Naive 4 ATK max speed max spatk, u-turn surf/hydro dark pulse and ice beam. I mean if you're running a choice specs set (waste of protean anyway) I could imagine some sort of hidden power, but not hp flying, the only one id consider is hp fire for Ferro or hp grass (probably not in reality) for the massive anti meta mon right now, Quagsire.

Grass Knot hits harder than HP Grass, HP Grass' only use is for Rotom-W. Besides that, I agree with most everything you've said, but I still don't think U-turn is "necessary".

 

[Dinosaurman]

U-Turn is more useful than grass knot and hp fire overall as its a good momentum stealer and actually does respectable DMG with just LO+ 4 ATK EVs, hp fire is only really useful on one thing, grass knot maybe 2 things off the top of my head, and they're not too popular.

There's not too much point trying to beat everything as Greninja as Dark Pulse, Ice Beam and Surf is amazing coverage as is and can clean up very easily late game.

Dark pulse has very good neutral coverage and late game there's not much that can switch into it comfortably.

The only thing (off the top if my head albeit) that can comfortably switch into this set is Azumaril as it resists all the attacks. But this is where U-turn helps, whilst still allowing you to have near flawless coverage.

 

[VCrowe]

hp fire is only really useful on one thing

How do you get that? Protean makes it useful on anything that is 2x weak against it, not to mention it OHKO's both Scizor and Ferrothorn at full health.

From my experience, basically anything that is at 60% or lower HP (with a fire weakness), which is when your Greninja would come in to clean up, is getting KO'ed by HP Fire.

Not to mention he can punch a good hole in both Klefki and Skarm, who are both pretty common leads. (Skarm not so much anymore, but still)

Also, it's been said before that U-turn and Dark Pulse both provide nearly the same coverage coupled with Hydro Pump/Surf and Ice Beam, so running both would be a waste. It really comes down to whether you want raw power or momentum when deciding between the two.

Basically the moves I've seen on Greninja are Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and U-turn. I've run into a few Spikes sets, and I've seen a few HP Fire sets. What I haven't seen on Showdown are sets using Dark Pulse, because it's made slightly redundant by U-turn.

IMO, the coverage granted by a moveset of U-turn/Dark Pulse, Hydro Pump/Surf, Ice Beam, and HP Fire is to great to pass up. If you have something else on your team to deal with Ferrothorn and Scizor, then you could opt for Spikes to set hazards and troll electric types. You could also go with HP Electric, which will hit bulky water types, as well as provide additional coverage for flying types without changing you into one of the worst defensive typings in the game.

 

[Dinosaurman]

You could punch a hole into anything that switches into any of Greninja's attacks, the point is fire has less neutral coverage than Dark Pulse, that's all I meant. I wouldn't risk HP Fire against Scizor, even when resisting BP you're going to take a huge amount from a banded BP or a +2 BP. It's not going to KO though, but it's going to do over half. If I use Scizor on my team I do not fear Greninja potentially using HP fire, I just wait until Greninja's been whittled down then just BP it. It's not a hard process either with LO recoil and sandstorm. This is my reasoning for only overly useful on 1 thing. It's pretty risky using it on Scizor.

Also HP fire does 120 to Skarm/Klefki, Surf does more, not to mention Hydro Pump.

 

[Darki]

You could misunderstand the mechanics of Protean when reading the explanation given in the opening post. Protean gets activated directly before the move is used (and not afterwards which the explanation sounds like), I suggest this sentence schould be re-written.

 

[Dinosaurman]

Who are you talking to? If it was me I forgot about protean stab on the hp fire for some reason. Will edit my post later on, using my phone right now

 

[DexSeifer]

I need to ask about HydroPump... Is it really worth it? I mean, it has unperfect acc, and stuff like that makes you lose, Which water move is the "best" to run for Greninja?, im using Surf at Showdown and im not sure to try Scald.

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

I need to ask about HydroPump... Is it really worth it? I mean, it has unperfect acc, and stuff like that makes you lose, Which water move is the "best" to run for Greninja?, im using Surf at Showdown and im not sure to try Scald.

.....

Hydro Pump!

It is best. Someone ran calcs a bit back.

 

[kabbes]

Look at it this way -- Hydro pump vs Surf can turn a 2HKO into a 1HKO, or a 3HKO into a 2HKO. That kind of thing typically wins you more matches than the 15% miss rate loses you.

 

[Pata Hikari]

Greninja doesn't have the highest attacking stats, it's also fairly frail. It isn't likely to get a second turn that Surf would require, you need the high power provided by Hydro Pump.

 

[Impy]

Got a perfect IV hasty froak, but its HP is steel. Is Grass Knot doable over HP Fire?

 

[VCrowe]

Who are you talking to? If it was me I forgot about protean stab on the hp fire for some reason. Will edit my post later on, using my phone right now

Yes, HP Fire deals more damage to Skarm and Klefki than Surf does.

I'm on my phone now as well so I'm not going to go through the hassle of doing those calcs, but I did them earlier, and HP Fire did more.

Got a perfect IV hasty froak, but its HP is steel. Is Grass Knot doable over HP Fire?

Not really, they hit completelly differant targets.