Pokémon Greninja

[Anty]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108881520

Far from being shit.

All greninja did was kill to mons with super effective moves which the special set could have done even better. Your opponent wasnt very good considering he was using charge beam meloetta.

The physical set would be good if it werent heavily outclassed by the special set. I would rather use kecleon with PUpP, shadow sneak, sucker punch and recover (ive used it and isnt that bad).
Special set>physical set

 

[aVocado]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108881520

Far from being shit.

yeah let's post replays using shitty sets against a shitty mono-psychic team

don't even argue it bro, physical greninja is terrible and while it's true it's attack is only like 5 points lower than its special attack, the base power of its moves are also lower. hydro pump/surf vs. waterfall, night slash vs. dark pulse, ice beam coverage is > rock slide, shadow sneak is piss weak and u-turn is.. well it's a good move to have, i'll give it that.

if physical greninja had a way of beating special greninja's counters, then MAYBE it could have some merit, but special greninja itself can beat quite a few of its checks/counters given the right coverage move.

 

[dkkc19]

All greninja did was kill to mons with super effective moves which the special set could have done even better. Your opponent wasnt very good considering he was using charge beam meloetta.

The physical set would be good if it werent heavily outclassed by the special set. I would rather use kecleon with PUpP, shadow sneak, sucker punch and recover (ive used it and isnt that bad).
Special set>physical set

Nobody is arguing that the physical set is better than the special one, but the physical set is far from being shit. Special set hits harder and got more coverage, but the physical set has a superior U-turn and access to two priorities.

That Kecleon set is good, but its easy to play around as it depends on Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak to make up for its non-existent speed. Greninja outspeeds lots of Pokemons and has access to a very strong U-turn. The only thing Kecleon has better is his Special Defence and access to Sucker Punch. Speaking of Sucker Punch, if Greninja could ever learn that move it would make the physical set much, much better.

 

[Galinda]

Oy m8 but the Feralofgatr was beter

 

[dkkc19]

yeah let's post replays using shitty sets against a shitty mono-psychic team

don't even argue it bro, physical greninja is terrible and while it's true it's attack is only like 5 points lower than its special attack, the base power of its moves are also lower. hydro pump/surf vs. waterfall, night slash vs. dark pulse, ice beam coverage is > rock slide, shadow sneak is piss weak and u-turn is.. well it's a good move to have, i'll give it that.

if physical greninja had a way of beating special greninja's counters, then MAYBE it could have some merit, but special greninja itself can beat quite a few of its checks/counters given the right coverage move.

Not the best reply to post I admit. I should've posted my last battle, which I lost because of Life Orb damage. (Could've won as I had 6% HP Rotom-W and 25%HP Latios)

Special set is no doubt better than the physical one, but it doesn't make the physical one shit. Physical Greninja gets walled by Skarmory and as said before doesn't hit as hard as the special one thanks to weaker moves. But it has its uses and Shadow Sneak is the only way Greninja could hit a scarfed Latios before getting hit first.

 

[Jack Meister]

Who the fuck uses scarfed Latios?

 

[dkkc19]

Who the fuck uses scarfed Latios?

Players down the ladder. I faced few scarfed Latios especially in the 1000-1200 rank

 

[Rechi]

Beating a set that only low ladder scrubs use isn't worth gimping your Greninja over.

 

[Jack Meister]

Nobody gives a shit about low ladder players when when it comes to viability. At least mention threats that are relevant. A fucking scarfed Latios of all things isn't one of them.

 

[Hidious]

Who the fuck uses scarfed Latios?

Scarf Latios isn't that bad, it's definitely more viable than specs Latios. It's a good check to charizard x and other boosting sweepers. The problem is that the life orb set provides more utility and power. Therefore much better. Scarf is just a niche set to use if you need a zard x check and the ability to cripple walls with trick.

All that said, physical greninja blows.

 

[Shyfire]

don't forget the physical greninja set, waterfall/water shuriken, night slash, shadow sneak, U-turn. this set wrecks souls and more............I wish more people would use Physical greninja.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

yes.... until you edited it

The only thing I edited was a reply to someone else as to not double post.

HP Grass is for Rotom specifically, if you don't care about hitting Rotom but still want the grass coverage Grass Knot is almost always better, I obviously didn't mean Grass Knot is for rotom...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-108881520

Far from being shit.

All that replay proves is that you're low ranked and base your opinions on what's good on your experiences versus similarly low ranked players, the guy was running a (shitty) mono psychic team for crying out loud..

There´s worse things than Physical Greninja, the reason why people say it´s shit is that it´s completely outclassed by the special set, there is literally not a single reason to consider running physical Greninja atm other than being a hipster.

Now even if special greninja didnt exist, I´d question the viability of physical greninja in OU but it´d probably be decent in UU.

 

[dkkc19]

The only thing I edited was a reply to someone else as to not double post.

HP Grass is for Rotom specifically, if you don't care about hitting Rotom but still want the grass coverage Grass Knot is almost always better, I obviously didn't mean Grass Knot is for rotom...



All that replay proves is that you're low ranked and base your opinions on what's good on your experiences versus similarly low ranked players, the guy was running a (shitty) mono psychic team for crying out loud..

There´s worse things than Physical Greninja, the reason why people say it´s shit is that it´s completely outclassed by the special set, there is literally not a single reason to consider running physical Greninja atm other than being a hipster.

Now even if special greninja didnt exist, I´d question the viability of physical greninja in OU but it´d probably be decent in UU.

I like to mix things up (I usually make a new team every week) and thats the reason I used physical Greninja. The other good thing about physical Greninja is the surprise factor, it forces switch outs (Especially Dragonite and non-scarfed Garchomps) because they expect an Ice Beam. Tbh as I got into the 1400+ rank, physical Greninja started to be less useful, but I still like its U-turn and its main reason I use it.

It's kinda gimmicky but its far from being shit.

 

[InfinitySlayer]

I have noticed I can use my Greninja's Water Shuriken and Spikes to play very effective mind-games with the opponent. Especially since most of the times it uses its Water STAB and Ice Beam.
WS is most helpful when a Bullet Punch use switches in on a healthy Greninja after an Ice Beam kill, and Spikes gives me an option against an Electric type besides switching out.

 

[skies]

I like to mix things up (I usually make a new team every week) and thats the reason I used physical Greninja. The other good thing about physical Greninja is the surprise factor, it forces switch outs (Especially Dragonite and non-scarfed Garchomps) because they expect an Ice Beam. Tbh as I got into the 1400+ rank, physical Greninja started to be less useful, but I still like its U-turn and its main reason I use it.

It's kinda gimmicky but its far from being shit.

You try to focus on teambuilding for longer and perfect it, not just ditch it. And 1400+ is still low on the ladder, try using Physical Greninja at 1750+

 

[dkkc19]

You try to focus on teambuilding for longer and perfect it, not just ditch it. And 1400+ is still low on the ladder, try using Physical Greninja at 1750+

I don't know why, but I get bored of using the same team. I'm new to competitive Pokemon (Only started playing competitively this February) and at first I used Showdown as a way to test my Wifi teams, but then when I saw how easier and hassle free it is to make new teams I ditched my Pokemon X and started playing Showdown all the time but I never managed to get past the 1500 rank.

 

[ArashiTheRainDancer]

Ugh, for the last time, there is nothing wrong with physical Greninja. It isnt sheer amounts of power that counts here, it is unpredictability. Lets say you switch to your physical Greninja, and this baits the opponents goodra. Night Slash will be a guarunteed two hit KO on the blob with no defense investment. The reason why it is viable is because physical Greninja can outsmart special walls, like the former mentioned. Trust me, I have used it, and it does that job just right.

 

[Stoo]

so, you get one weak hit on a special wall before the opponent switches to their physical wall to check your weak physical attacker? nice

 

[ArashiTheRainDancer]

Well, what if you take those threats down first? Even then, unless you are banded or scarved, you could just u turn out of there

 

[BlueDryBones1]

Above reasons is why I run PuP on mine for situations like this: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-110111219 (Skip to turn 12-19 to see Greninja)

Whenever I send it out I lure in a opponents special wall or force a switch to get free PuP

Also that crit on Mandibuzz didn't matter:

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 268-320 (63.2 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Imo its not as bad as people make it seem.

Though not that high up the ladder. This team made it higher not too long ago but I swapped out Physical Sylveon for SD Aegislash.

Here is an older one where she starts her rampage around turn 21/22: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-101080206 The Rock Slide flinch though did matter on how long it lasted

Ended up losing but she still did good.

 

[BeastLymit]

Shapeshifter Greninja

Greninja@ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 SpD / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot

 

[Tressed]

Well, what if you take those threats down first? Even then, unless you are banded or scarved, you could just u turn out of there

If you can take out everything that walls Physical Greninja properly so that it can break special walls, you could just use a more generally useful physical Pokemon and plow through their team anyways. Suddenly you've saved yourself two Pokemon slots, one for a physical sweeper to replace Greninja, and one that replaces your special sweeper and does whatever else could help you out.

Ideally if you want to lure something in, you need to do enough damage to stop it from walling your other threats. Physical Greninja isn't going to break through anything notable.

Above reasons is why I run PuP on mine for situations like this: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-110111219 (Skip to turn 12-19 to see Greninja)

Whenever I send it out I lure in a opponents special wall or force a switch to get free PuP

Also that crit on Mandibuzz didn't matter:

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 268-320 (63.2 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Imo its not as bad as people make it seem.

Though not that high up the ladder. This team made it higher not too long ago but I swapped out Physical Sylveon for SD Aegislash.

Here is an older one where she starts her rampage around turn 21/22: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-101080206 The Rock Slide flinch though did matter on how long it lasted

Ended up losing but she still did good.

Ironically, in the second match you would have won had you ran the standard DP / Hydro / Ice Beam / Extrasensory. Apart from your Shadow Sneak shenanigans on Conkeldurr, you did nothing that a regular Greninja couldn't have done. You weren't breaking through Chansey without that crit, and any decent player would have known what you were going to try on Conk as soon as you showed you were physical and gone for the Knock Off.

 

[DuskSoul]

I think the idea of physical Greninja has some merit, but sadly his lack of truly good physical moves put a stop to it, if he gets better moves via move tutors or what have you in the Z version it might become viable.

 

[Magicfire]

For the last time, Greninja is more suited to being a Special Attacker. It's special moves are stronger than its physical moves (i.e. Waterfall to Hydro Pump, Rock Slide to Ice Beam, etc.). As some other people have mentioned, any decent player is going to switch to their physical wall as soon as you start spamming physical moves instead of the predicted special walls. The idea, the concept of physical Greninja isn't that bad, but its special movepool is much better, so that kind of puts an end to the whole Physical Greninja thing.

 

[DuskSoul]

Exactly, until (if) Greninja gets a better physical movepool he should be used as a special attacker.