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Groudon

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MMII

MMII

UPL Champion
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Name: Groudon
Type: Ground
Abilities: Drought
Base Stats: 100 / 150 / 140 / 100 / 90 / 90
Movepool: http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/groudon/moves
Stats and movepool unconfirmed

General Description:
Groudon has sadly lost his permanent sun which has caused competition from the likes of Landorus-T and Ground Arceus to become more menacing. However, Groudon remains unique for his ability to roast Steel types like Skarmory with a sun boosted Fire Punch, even if he only has 5 turns to do so. He also has a unique movepool including moves like Dragon Claw and isn't reliant upon an ability that only activates upon switch in for his bulk.
 
I honestly don't think Groudon has anything to fear from the likes of Landorus T and Ground Arceus. Although the weather war is now pretty much a slapfight, I think most successful players will be hesitant to relinquish even a little control of the weather. It isn't nice to have a pokemon die from Kyogre, but it is a hell of a lot better than having your whole team swept by him. As many of you are well aware of, it doesn't take many turns for a choice specs Kyogre to gain momentum in the rain. Even if Groudon comes in on the revenge, it still cuts the 5 turns or so of rain dominance down to just one. This is extremely useful for pokemon like Ho Oh, who will likely be one of the most popular uber pokemon this generation for various reasons.

The bottom line is: Groudon will continue to be a major threat in ubers despite the weather nerf.
 
If Kyogre has 5 straight turns of Spout spam because you lack a Groudon, adding one isn't going to fix your team. Your team should have real Kyogre checks, like Palkia, so that you won't lose something every time you give it a free turn. The only anti-rain aspect seen last gen from Groudon (ignoring the outlier spdef Donner) was as a counter measure against Swift Swimmers. (which could sweep a team a lot easier than some base 90)

That said, even 8 turns of Sun is better than nothing. It's just that you use Groudon for Groudon more so than you did last gen.
 
Groudon still has many notable advantages and the contest for a teamslot with Landorous-T and Ground-Arc isn't as stiff as it seems. Sun is still good considering how easy it is to use Ho-oh, and Groudon can usually pivot in a couple of times and set it up. Groudon can still phaze physical sweepers such as E-killer, SD Ghostceus, SD Ray, something Landorus can't. Its physical bulk is much higher than Landorous-T's, who is dependent on its ability to make up for it, which isn't reliable in all cases. Fire moves are obviously something that sets Groudon apart from Lando, but there is also Thunder Wave that can support a lot of bulky sun offense teams as well as stopping greedy Xerneas. Lando can't really boast about being hazard resilient that much anymore, since spikes are rare- sticky web immunity is nice- but if we assume SR on your side of the field then Groudon is actually more hazard resilient. Ground Arc has incredible problems, firstly coming from that a support set is inherently Ho-oh weak, an SD set doesn't provide much support and that it is an Arceus-forme with opportunity cost just like any other. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, if it fits your team, it fits, but there are many useful Arceus-Formes this gen who runs support sets easier and better (Water, Rock, Grass, Psychic). I don't think one should approach the problem of using Groudon with: "why should I use it over Landorous-T or Groundceus?" (I don't think you meant this, but it kinda sounds a little bit like that in the OP, and I personally know you are a big fan of both mons), rather I would look at Groudon's physical sweeper checking ability, higher stats, presumable actual higher hazard resilience, support moves etc, and look at a situation where maybe Lando could be more benefitial for example (higher speed, u-turn, better Groudon check itself).
 
I agree, Groudon certainly has the perks you mentioned. What I poorly expressed before is that Groudon isn't as dominant over the other bulky Ground-types like he was before. Having Drought was a huge advantage over things like Lando-T because of the large amounts of team support it provided as well as the defensive utility against danger Swift Swimmers. Now that advantage is gone which makes Groudon more comparable to other ground-types. It's still an excellent mon though and it's earns slots pretty easily.


Also, Ground-arc is pretty lame this gen since it doesn't check Palkia. Lando-T and Gliscor may have lost the advantage of being Spikes immune but they are good checks to offensive Ground mons like Groundceus and Groudon which isn't that common anymore with Soul Dew being gone and Tina-O not being a super dangerous Dtail spammer like it was last gen. (btw, the little blurbs in the topics are just discussion starters. Although, I think I'm supposed to start updating them at some point to reflect the thread's opinion. idk)
 
The best Sun abusers (i.e. Ho-Oh, M-Blaze) don't even need Sun to function well. Giving them 5 extra turns of a luxury at the expense of power/longevity seems like a bad idea. This is especially true since Groudon needs to perform other roles for your team besides changing the weather (i.e. Stealth Rock, checking stuff/phazing).
 
It may seem very niche but has anyone tried sunny day groudon? Functions similarly to gen5 9tales to lessen the advantage of ttar and toed and to a much lesser extent, obama

Since ogre is a massive threat groudon can predict ogre to come in, and set up sunny day
 
midend said:
It may seem very niche but has anyone tried sunny day groudon? Functions similarly to gen5 9tales to lessen the advantage of ttar and toed and to a much lesser extent, obama

Since ogre is a massive threat groudon can predict ogre to come in, and set up sunny day
Click to expand...

The problem with Sunny Day Groudon is Ogre will rarely switch directly into a Groudon because it fears LO/EP EQ, as well as wasting a moveslot for a highly situational move that doesn't really bring much to the table. EQ/Toxic/T-Wave already punish Kyogre enough for switching directly (more so than sunny day imo) and Groudon would rather run run something like EQ, SR, Toxic, Roar or EQ, Stone Edge, SR, Dragon Tail than Sunny Day.
 
I didn't see a sticky or anything and I'm not sure if we're allowed to talk about it or not, but the official site has revealed Primal Groudon to be Ground/Fire type.

We don't know stats, but a type change could be huge. This means that Groudon loses its rock resistance while gaining a weakness to Ground. However, it also loses Ice and Grass weaknesses while gaining Bug, Steel, Fire, and Fairy resistances. Notably, it can no longer be burned. What does this mean for Groudon? Did one of the tier's best physical tanks just take a huge hit? Do we have our newest and best Xerneas / Ho-Oh check?
 
Defintely gonna be a magic xern check! It also does well vs ho-oh/blaze and still fucks zek. Ekiller owns you now though, and sdef sets to pivot kyogre will be unviable.
 
WreckDra said:
Apparently it's ability will also be getting buffed which I assume means Drought will have the same effect but with something else attached to it. This is going to be a very impact flu shift I feel.

Where I found this: http://www.nintendo-insider.com/201...e-revealed-pokemon-omega-ruby-alpha-sapphire/
Click to expand...

Holy shit, I am so hyped now. I wonder what kind of boost they will give to drought/drizzle? Like WreckDra said, this could be influential as fuck for the meta.
 
The bits about their ability is interesting, hopefully they return to their previous state. They wasted no time in pointing out that "Primal reversion greatly boosts Kyogre's special attack."

Hello base 200 SpA.

Side note: I always wondered how the two created land and sea. Cool that they themselves are the sources of magma and seawater.
 
I'm more curious about their new(?) speed stats. Groudon or Kyogre getting 100 Spe means they could outspeed Yveltal, Quaza (assuming no Mega), non-Scarf Zekrom. Interesting
 
Hopefully they both get buffed speed. Also, this has been bugging me, but do they need to hold 1 custom item to be in their primal forme, like griseous orb with giratina-o, or can they hold any item they want?
 
I really hope they dont have to hold 1 item and you can attach any item you want to them, like with deoxys formes and shaymin-s, but I guess we won't know that for a while and we can only cross my fingers for now.
 
my hope in terms of storyline of the games is that this "buffed ability" is the return of perma weather. Stylistically, giving Politoed and Ninetales only 5 turns of Sun/Rain made sense, but Groudon and Kyogre should retain their super-weather abilities.

The effect this would have on the meta depends on how much you liked weather wars I guess. its different from last gen though because were this to happen, only Sun and Rain would have access to perma-weather, so Sand (and hail but........) would be less effective in disrupting it. maybe it's because I started playing in the perma-weather gen but imo it would be cool to see the legendary weather pokemon able to summon perma weather again.
 
For some reason, to me, primal devolution seems like a change that is like deoxys form change( probably have to go to some place, sit through a boring cutscene, then get a primal kyogre/groudon/<insert other two mons here>). It's mainly because your bringing a pokemon back to its ancient stage, which doesn't seem like something that could be accomplished in battle. However, the red orb/blue orb may be given as a hold item, which acts like a griseous orb. Groudon pays a heavy price for getting an immunity to burns, and resistances to whatever. Being 4x weak to water in a metagame which could possibly have perma-rain is very damaging to it's viability. Also, ho-oh tends to run earthquake on offensive sets, which could easily rip through groudon. I don't know how it will be able to counter xerneas. A +2 moonblast 1hkos it, which means that a plus 2 moonblast will continue to 2hko it, even with the resistance. And that's not taking into account that earth power could easily be a move tutor move for xerneas. Opposing blaziken can take advantage of it's perma sun, and since blaziken learns earthquake, it really doesn't look good.
 
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