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Yeah, I agree nidos weren't great and while I totally understand B-tier, C-tier seems more adequate to them. They relied on weak moves and didn't win any major battle, except for Jasmine. This and being reliant on lots of tms make me feel B-tier is too high. I'm not sure for Wooper and I'll test it next run with Heracross probably.
Also, I agree with Sudowoodo, which is too slow to be really helpful and I made up my mind but E-tier is more fitting for Hoppip. It was that painful to train it and they are way better things to use honestly. I also feel that Ledyba is probably closer to E-tier than D-tier because while it had some uses, it was mostly useless, tho another test on it would be cool. I changed my view on Butterfree and Exeggutor and both should be in D-tier. They have some uses but rely on weak moves and aren't useful most of the time.
Lasly, I'm going to test both Poliwrath and Politoed, like Ryota. Both are in med slow group and Snubull is in the fast group so it shouldn't take too much grind.
I see no reason why Ledyba shouldn’t be E tier honestly. Coming early doesn’t stop a mon from being E. Trubbish was E in BW1, because after Elesa with Eviolite it drops off a cliff completely.
Back to GSC though, I don’t see why anyone would ever consider Ledyba. It has base 20 Attack with no STAB moves. Literally almost anything else hits harder. As Ledian that becomes…like 35 Attack and 55 Special Attack. Even with the elemental punches, you are hitting soft, and when the Normals outclass you at elemental punching your straits are seriously dire. Also, both screens come at level 22 (4 levels after evolution at the earliest as opposed to level 24 as Ledian, and you don’t want to hold off evo with something this terrible), meaning that it’s more or less a stretch to have them before Whitney, who will Rollout you to death anyway.
Seriously even the novelty of a few oddball moves via TM like Dig and the punches won’t save this thing. Even the memesters who think there is value in things like Corsola (which Ryota proved is tolerable) won’t want to touch this thing! At least with Ariados STAB Sludge Bomb is something. Throw Ledyba in E without a second thought, please.
Ryota Mitarai: Wow, I never knew that Quagsire actually had a 50% flee rate in those games. You sure do know these sorts of games like the back of your hand, eh? Depending on the way you look at things, it may even bring less to the table than the beasts. Even when you just catch it as a Wooper, it doesn't really have a good start against its first gym. The main thing it really has is that it's good in Union Cave, and that area is hardly the slog that's Mt. Moon. Perhaps it's C after all.
nah, I just fact-check my claims a lot before posting (even though I don't always do it correctly), I had to check a Bulbapedia page to see the exact flee rate of Quagsire. But yeah, C doesn't sound too bad, I think the issue will be resolved once we get a tier update at some point.
Anyways, did run with Steelix / Poliwrath / Politoed / Sunkern. Steelix assumes Union Cave Onix, since Rocky disobeys for Bugsy, but if you don't care about him, Rocky is probably better in the long run. Politoed assumes that you catch it directly as a Poliwhirl; I will explain why below. Sunkern is evolved immediately. Logs for Poliwrath start at Morty due to the fact that I already have logs of Poliwhirl in another post.
Steelix
Bugsy(14): Rock Throw kills everything
Silver(16): beats Zubat and Gastly
Whitney(20): Dig 2HKOes Miltank after Screeching it to death. Dig also breaks Rollout.
Silver(22): beats everything but Bayleef
Morty(25): Dig 2HKOes Gengar and OHKOes the rest. However, you are slower than everything
Chuck(30): beats Primeape
Jasmine(30): Screech to the max allows Dig to kill her own Steelix. It also outspeeds and OHKOes the Magnemite
Pryce(31): Iron Tail 2HKOes Dewgong and OHKOes Piloswine, while Dig 2HKOes Seel.
Silver(33): beats everything but Meganium
Clair(38): beats the non-Surf Dragonair by putting it in red with Iron Tail and KOing with Headbutt, as they cannot hit it hard
Silver(40): Iron Tail 2HKOes Golbat and EQ OHKOes the rest bar Meganium
Will(41): Iron Tail 2HKOes Xatu, which can confuse you. EQ OHKOes Jynx. It will take a few Psychics to actually KO you
Koga(41/42): Nothing here can threaten you whatsoever, so you can just spam attacks till they are dead. Screech can be helpful against Forry and Crobat to turn them into OHKOs.
Bruno(43): EQ OHKOes Hitmontop while Digging and Hitmonlee. Hitmonchan is 2HKOed and two Fire Punches + HJK from Lee aren't enough to take Steelix down
Karen(43): beats Gengar, Murkrow, andVileplume, though you barely survive all of their attacks.
Poliwrath
Morty(25): Surf OHKOes Gastly and Haunter #1 and 2HKOes the rest, though Gengar seems to be a roll for a 3HKO. Only Gengar outspeeds you
Chuck(30): beats Primeape. Hypnosis + a few Headbutts will be needed to take down his own Poliwrath
Jasmine(30): MW Surf OHKOes Magnemite on rolls. 1v1s Steelix
Pryce(30): MW Surf 2HKOes Piloswine. Dynamic Punch OHKOes the rest, with Headbutt being good for Seel too
Silver(33): beats everything but Meganium
Clair(38): NMI Ice Punch 2HKOes Dragonair. You are likely taking out two at best due to paralysis
Silver(40): beats Sneasel, Haunter, and Kadabra, and potentially Golbat. Magneton lives one Surf and paralyzes, though it dies to Dynamic Punch.
Will(41): no
Koga(41): MW Surf in rain 2HKOes the Bugs. EQ can help against Muk, but I never taught it
Bruno(41): beats Chan and Top. Lee generally finishes it off, as you need to reset up rain to 2HKO it with Surf
Karen(41): Dynamic Punch + Surf KO Umbreon, though Surf is a roll. It also 1v1s Houndoom easily
Chuck(30): beats Primeape. Hypnosis + a few Headbutts will be needed to take down his own Poliwrath
Jasmine(30): MW Surf OHKOes everything. Nothing seems to be a roll
Pryce(31): MW Surf muscles through Seel and Piloswine. Dynamic Punch + Headbutt cover Dewgong
Silver(33): Ice Punch 2HKOes Golbat and Meganium. MW Surf 2HKOes Sneasel and OHKOes the rest. No sweep, but can take out a few Pokemon
Clair(38): NMI Ice Punch puts Dragonair in red. If Kingdra is her last Pokemon, you can put it on a timer with Perish Song
Silver(40): MW Surf in rain OHKOes everything but Meganium.
Will(41): even with rain, MW Surf doesn't OHKO anything, save for Xatu #1. You are slower than Jynx and Xatu and they can wear you down enough so that you don't do much here
Koga(41): MW Surf in rain 2HKOes Moth and OHKOes the other Bugs. Crobat is 3HKOed by Ice Punch
Bruno(41): beats Chan and Top. Lee generally finishes it off, as you need to reset up rain to 2HKO it with Surf
Karen(41): 1v1s Houndoom if at full health
Lance(43): NMI Ice Punch doens't seem capable of OHKOing Dragonite, at least for sure.
Sunflora
Whitney(20): +2 MS Mega Drain 2HKOes Miltank. Not a bad matchup, only watch out for Stomp flinches. Set up on Clefairy
Silver(22): +2 MS Mega Drain muscles through Magnemite and Bayleef
Morty(25): haha no
Chuck(30): +2 MS Mega Drain 2HKOes both. You rely heavily on Poliwrath missing Dynamic Punch twice
Jasmine(30): lol no
Pryce(31): Growth once and then spam Mega Drain on Seel and Dewgong. If Piloswine misses with Blizzard, it loses, as Petal Dance then OHKOes it
Silver(33): muscles through Meganium with Sludge Bomb and potentially Sneasel if not too weakened. Watch out for Body Slam
Clair(38): no
Silver(40): beats Sneasel and Kadabra. Potentially Meganium too with Sludge Bomb by 2HKOing
Will(42): can beat Slowbro
Koga(42): -
Bruno(42): even if you were to spam Growth to the max, you are beating at best the Hitmons. You OHKO Chan and Top with Mega Drain and then Lee with Petal Dance. Machamp will finish you off if you've taken damage from Hitmonlee.
thoughts:
Onix (Trade)
Honestly, C at best, maybe D. The problem with Steelix is that Metal Coat is a pain to get (refer to my Scizor post) and that it's incredibly slow. Steel is great on occassions, though, as it made Koga into a spam matchup, for example, and Onix was good for Bugsy and Whitney. I lean slightly towards C-tier due to the fact that Metal Coat + Speed are its only issues, but D could work too.
Poliwag (Poliwrath)
C / B. Poliwag isn't great early on, though Med Slow growth rate is nice. Poliwrath was okay for Morty and good for Pryce. Its biggest accomplishment, though, is the fact that it can crush Karen's Umbreon with Dynamic Punch. It's inaccurate, but in most cases, you land it once and then Surf can finish it off. WIth that said, it, similarly to Wooper, lacks power and can't OHKO many things even with MW Surf in rain, so C-tier may be better, but I could see it go to B too. Also, requires a backtrack for the DST trick.
Poliwag (Politoed)
Politoed looks like a C, moreso than Poliwrath. It requires a backtrack for King's Rock. However, this is also a huge plus, funnily. You can catch a Poliwhirl at level 20-24 by surfing in Ecruteak City, then backtrack all the way for King's Rock *and* take the Rain Dance TM too. How is this a good thing? Other than turning two backtracks into one, the Poli line learns Rain Dance naturally only through Poliwag; this means that Politoed's circumstances allow you to skip the Poliwag phase without losing on too much, as you can use the TM to compensate for that. Poliwrath requires you to backtrack for the Water Stone and potentially for Rain Dance if you decide to skip the Poliwag phase. This means that Politoed skips the Poliwag phase and has only one backtrack to worry about. Its higher Special Attack wasn't exactly relevant in most places, other than Jasmine, so I am not sure if this should be higher than C-tier, but Zebes can hopefully provide more thoughts here
Sunkern
Easy D-tier. It's good for Whitney, as it can 2HKO her and can see some usage elsewhere, but yeah, this is pretty bad, overall. You need to win the National Park contest to get Sun Stone and I don't know how difficult it is for everyone, but for me, it's not that easy. You also need to ensure that Cooltrainer Nick isn't participating, as he is more-or-less impossible to defeat. I don't think I need to go too much into this, as we all know it sucks, the most important things to know about it are that it can beat Whitney and that it levels up quickly thanks to Med Slow growth rate.
next team: Caterpie / Onix (No Trade) / Exeggcute (C) / Krabby
Ryota Mirai You can pick up a Dragon Scale for free pretty easily in Mt. Mortar after getting Waterfall, a point at which you have Fly and Surf too. The backtrack is really nothing terrible at this point and apart from missing the Clair fight, I see no reason to hold that against Kingdra.
Also, a few thoughts about some of the Pokemon y'all have been talking about:
Sudowoodo sucks, I can attest to that through a past playthrough. On paper, they're really good due to learning early Rock Slide and having Low Kick for coverage. In practice, they appear exactly at the time the Rock-type starts becoming less of an asset and more of a liability (literally missing the first three gyms that Rock-types like Geodude and Onix help a lot against) and their lack of speed really doesn't help at all against Morty. In addition, Chuck, Pryce, and Jasmine nail you outright with super-effective STAB moves or high powered attacks targeting Sudo's trash Special Defense. Don't even get me started on Clair or the Elite Four, apart from being good against Lance's Aerodactyl and Charizard (and okay against Karen's Houndoom admittedly) Sudo has virtually nothing great to offer. No, beating Karen's Murkrow and Bruno's Onix is not really anything to be proud of.
I don't think the 50% flee rate is a major draw against Quagsire, given they're very common and you can soft-reset if you need to.
Agree with DrumstickGaming, Ledyba and Ledian are trash. I will say though that catching Ledian from Route 36 is perhaps the best way to use one, as Ledian using elemental punches and Dig can do SOMETHING against Morty and the upcoming Gyms. In contrast, Ledyba can do naught against Falkner and Whitney, and Supersonic shenanigans aren't reliable enough to beat Bugsy. The bug is a supporter, not a fighter.
I think the best way to use Ledian is to box it and just…use Scyther who from what I’m seeing in my current run, isn’t exactly something to jump for joy over (you miss Fury Cutter sooner or later and mostly spam Headbutt midgame).
done with Caterpie / Onix (No Trade) / Exeggcute (C) / Krabby. Logs may seem a bit low-effort for the E4 (because they are) simply cause some things were very straightforward in terms of overall performance. Logs for Onix start from Morty due to it being the same Onix as last time.
Butterfree
Butterfree(12): Confusion 2HKOes Pidgey and 3HKOes Pidgeotto. Pidgeotto 3HKOes with Gust as well, but you are faster.
Bugsy(17): Confusion 6HKOes Scyther. Sleep Powder will be needed to win
Silver(17): Confusion spam beats everything
Whitney(20): Miltank is faster and 2HKOes with Rollout. Your only hope here is "SleepMare" (Sleep Powder + Nightmare)
Silver(22): beats everything but Magnemite, unless you are not Cursed and want to go through SleepMare
Morty(25): Confusion OHKOes Gastly, 3HKOes Gengar, and 2HKOes the rest. Gengar is the only one that's faster. Sleep Powder can help here
Chuck(30): Confusion 2HKOes Primeape and 4HKOes Poliwrath. You need SleepMare to sweep "reliably"
Jasmine(30): SleepMare
Pryce(31): SleepMare
Silver(32): SleepMare is needed for everything not called Haunter
Clair(38): SleepMare is pretty much needed here to do anything
Silver(40): like always, SleepMare is the way to go here
every fight onwards: SleepMare is more-or-less mandatory here. There are very few things here that you can 1v1 without it
Onix
Silver(22): beats everything but Bayleef
Morty(25): outspeeds everything but Gengar. Dig OHKOes Gastly and Haunter #1 and 2HKOes the rest
Chuck(30): beats Primeape
Jasmine(30): beats Magnemite
Pryce(31): beats Seel
Silver(33): beats most things here, but things like Golbat and Sneasel aren't even 2HKOed, so you have to take your time
Clair(38): no
Silver(40): beats everything but Meganium. Rock Throw 2HKOes Golbat and EQ 2HKOes Sneasel and OHKOes the rest
After this, Onix sucks completely and can barely get a KO anywhere
Eggy
Whitney(20): Confusion 2HKOes Clefairy and 3HKOes Miltank. Miltank is faster, but if it goes for Rollout and you can live three of them (I was in low green and still lived), you win. Stomp flinches can be annoying, though
Silver(22): it can 1v1 everything, but a sweep is not doable due to Haunter's Curse
Morty(25): Confusion 2HKOes Gengar and OHKOes the rest. Only Gastly is outsped
Chuck(30): Confusion 2HKOes both. Good matchup
Jasmine(30): SleepSeed or SleepMare or a combo of both
Pryce(31): you need SleepSeed to beat all but Seel, which can be covered with Confusion
Silver(33): Golbat and Haunter are 2HKOed and OHKOed, respectively, by Confusion. Sneasel is 2HKOed by PB Strength. You won't really do much, due to Golbat being annoying and 3HKOing with Wing Attack, unless you resort to SleepMare.
Clair(38): PB Strength seems to 2HKO Dragonair, but it might be a roll, as it left one of them at green, but managed to 2HKO anyways. You are faster, so you can put them to sleep with Hypnosis. SleepSeed, SleepMare, or SleepSeedMare can be used to 1v1 Kingdra
Silver(40): beats Sneasel, Haunter, and Kadabra, along with Golbat if it doesn't get haxed too much
Will(42): Psychic doesn't deal a lot, but PB Strength doesn't 2HKO anything either, save for Jynx. You will be worn out sooner or later, so you aren't gonna take out too many threats, unless you resort to Sleep
Koga(42): beats Ariados and Venomoth. Crobat and Muk are 2HKOed and 3HKOed by Confusion, but you may not be able to beat them
Bruno(42): Confusion 2HKOes everything. You won't sweep without some healing, but you can take out a few before that
Karen(42): beats Gengar and Vileplume
Kingler
Silver(22): meh overall, everything bar Zubat causes it problems
Morty(25): Surf is a 3HKO on Haunter. Don't bother with Gengar. Gastly dies to Surf after Curse. Bad matchup
Chuck(30): PB Strength 2HKOes Primeape and 3HKOes Poliwrath. Avoid Dynamic Punch / Hypnosis and you will be fine
Jasmine(30): 1v1s Steelix
Pryce(31): Surf 2HKOes Piloswine. PB Strength 2HKOes the rest. No problems here
Silver(33): beats Haunter, Sneasel, and Golbat
Clair(38): PB Strength 2HKOes Dragonair. Takes out the non-TBolt ones at best
Silver(40): beats Sneasel, Golbat, Kadabra, and Haunter.
Will(42): PB Strength 2HKOes Xatu and OHKOes Jynx. However, Psychic is a 2HKO.
Koga(42): PB Strength 2HKOes Ariados and Venomoth
Bruno(42): spam PB Strength and you can beat all Hitmons, though you are left at incredibly low HP after that, so crits or high rolls can prevent this feat
Karen(42): beats Murkrow
thoughts:
Caterpie
D-tier imo. The problems with "SleepMare" (Sleep + Nightmare) are:
a) it's slow (it takes around 3 turns to KO anything if you count in your own damage. However, you take a turn to put the foe to sleep as well)
b) it's inconsistent (Sleep lasts for 1-5 turns, so you may be unable to actually deal damage with that at all or deal less than needed. Furthermore, Sleep Powder is inaccurate and Butterfree doesn't have the luxury of Compound Eyes like in later gens)
Butterfree more or less cannot do anything without SleepMare after getting through Morty and even that fight encourages you to put things to sleep to avoid hax. Butterfree is usable, but is not quick in KOing things or consistent enough to warrant higher than D-tier. This is somewhat because I think games like GSC are relatively easy, so power should be the main emphasis, not gimmick strategies that take three turns at worst to KO anything (and being inconsistent, on top of this).
Onix (No Trade)
Honestly, this is slightly more usable than I expected. It was great for Bugsy and Whitney, and was actually decent for Morty. It can kill Jasmine's Magnemite (not an impressive achievement, but it's there) and is generally good for the rival thanks to having a type advantage against most of his Pokemon, though it notoriously failed to 2HKO Sneasel at the Underground. C / D. This depends a lot on how much you weight the fact that it completely flops at the E4 against it. It takes on some of the key opponents early on, can maintain some viability thanks to Jasmine / rival, and then pretty much stops existing, in short words.
Exeggcute (C)
Ehhh, leaning towards D-tier, but I can see where C came from. As mentioned in Butterfree's short analysis, I think power should be the main emphasis and Exeggutor has an issue with that early on due to being stuck with Barrage for 9 levels and also with a Slow growth rate for the entirety of the games. It also requires a bactrack for performing the DST trick. Onto its performance: it's okay for Whitney (I managed to sweep with it, though Stomp can be annoying), was okay for Morty, but the Speed could be a problem, and was good for Chuck. At the E4, it was okay for Bruno and meh elsewhere. It needs Sleep to muscle through everything else (could be SleepSeed or SleepMare). The reason I am saying D-tier rather than C-tier s purely because of the big backtrack, the 9 levels of absolute pain and hell, reliance on Sleep strategies to get through unfavorable matchups, and Slow growth rate, though at least it's a huge improvement from when I used it as an unevolved Exeggcute.
Krabby
D / C. I didn't find it impressive since it cannot exactly spam its STAB moves due to low Special Attack. It deals decent damage with Strength when t evolves, but it doesn't really shine in major fights, other than for the easier ones. I can live with either tier, but C seems a bit of a stretch to me. One thing that can help Krabby, though, is if you consider HM utility on it. It can learn Surf, Whirlpool, and Strength and still be an active member of your team, as it doesn't exactly need its other moveslots. Rock Smash can also be taught if you really need it.
I am going to start running with post-Pryce Pokemon, first team being Jynx / Tangela / Lickitung / Rhydon (GS). I may use skipped trainers to grind them up a bit. I may also post logs for several runs in bulk, as I have a lot less fights to test, so it should be faster to do them. I know that there are a bunch of pre-Pryce stuff that I haven't tested (notably early-game Bugs / Phanpy (C) / Sentret) but I'd rather start running the later mons to speed up this list's development.
aegon: While Quagsire is common in Union Cave, I have a feeling that people who just want to get through the efficiently would rather use something which is both common and doesn't have that chance of fleeing. I suppose it depends if you're willing to persevere to get a Pokemon which such an assistive type combination.
I probably hyped Sudowoodo a little too much on my image. You're definitely right in that it comes at a point where Rocks are starting to lose their lustre. It's probably a C at best purely for the reasonable level it comes at and maybe Rock Slide.
Ledian is indeed one of the worst in the game. In-game isn't kind to walls at all; especially if they have no STAB moves. In fact, I'd hesitate to say it really has moves.
Ledian is indeed one of the worst in the game. In-game isn't kind to walls at all; especially if they have no STAB moves. In fact, I'd hesitate to say it really has moves.
It’s a little bit of a tangent, but the only time walls can work is when they have a killer offensive typing or Abilities to offset their lack of killing power.
While it’s a bit of a stretch to call it a “wall” perhaps, the most triumphant example I can think of is Scraggy in the Unova games. With how much praise that mon gets, it’s easy to forget Scrafty has 90 Attack - less than Ferrothorn’s 94 Attack from an ACTUAL wall. It’s just Dark / Fighting and Moxie are such amazing attributes (along with level 20 Brick Break) it is such a great Pokémon. Another example would probably be Honedge in XY solely due to the defensive type of Ghost / Steel, though in my humble opinion that mon doesn’t feel very powerful despite Swords Dance.
The other problem is that defensive Pokémon are almost always mega slow. Even Pokémon like Slowbro or Escavalier or Snorlax, no matter how successful they are in major fights, will always see points deducted. In general you probably need about 60 base Speed or higher to succeed in-game consistently. And Scrafty comes close to that mark with 58 base Speed. Anything higher than 80-90 Speed is often overkill, which is why things like Persian are dropped in the garbage.
Even incredible Pokémon like Skarmory with Spikes and all that are terrible in-game. If you have base 70 offenses you need a good type or coverage to supplant that. Even fast defensive mons like Serperior are still terrible because again, lack of a good offensive type / coverage.
I know this doesn’t exactly relate to GSC but I figured I’d put in my two cents on why walls fall in the rankings typically.
Sorry for double posting, it seems like every time I post I get the sudden urge to marathon tests. Anyway I used Scyther, Red Gyarados, Teddiursa (C) and Stantler this time in Crystal. And yes I have logs if people want them, I just think my posts are long enough as is.
Yeah, Stantler sucks. It's not as obscenely terrible as Persian but I can hardly think of a single battle where Stantler was exceptional. It's not easy to catch either though neither are the other Normals. No reason to use this. Easy C tier, honestly I could even entertain D sometimes because this thing is just that bland. No interesting movepool options at all either.
This has perhaps the dubious honor of being the most disjointed / lopsided thing I have ever used in the history of in-game tiering, and yes, I am serious. Scyther, as we know, is a bit of a pain to get, and freshly caught it isn't all that impressive until Wing Attack at level 30 due to Fury Cutter being unreliable and resisted a lot, so you're mostly relying on Headbutt until then (which is still pretty good thanks to your solid Attack).
Once it gets Wing Attack and later Swords Dance, it gets REALLY good out of almost nowhere, sweeping Chuck and managing a good performance on Pryce. Most notably, if you can get Scyther to level 42 before Clair and have a spare PRZCureBerry lying around (annoying with Medium Fast EXP group but possible, grinding outside town is okay enough as you 2HKO Graveller), you Swords Dance once on Thunder Wave then cleave through her, leaving Kingdra in red at +2 and you easily weather her Surf as a 3HKO.
From there, most of the League topples like dominos with the proper setups, most notably Bitter Berry for Will. Even Lance without Agility has half his team shredded by a maxed out Scyther (Gyarados in rain is a joke damage-wise) before Aerodactyl comes out and kills you without an Agility boost. Scyther is definitely a C tier though. It's the epitome of "difficult, but awesome" in that you for sure have to invest into it, but it does get results if you can stick it out. It's not entirely watertight at the League either - Bruno hilariously gives it some trouble with Machamp and Onix being annoying, as well as Karen's Umbreon. While the endgame results are impressive, it's hard to say B tier when most B tiers are fairly straightforward to use.
TLDR: Scyther is a good mon, but you have to build around it and deal with a fair amount of hax to reach its full potential.
Not much to say on the Red Gyarados really - easy B tier. While it doesn't sweep a whole lot, it's just fine with Strength, Thrash and Surf, 2HKOing a good amount of things while also having good bulk. The Slow growth rate and annoying catch rate suck, but the high level of 30 I think makes up for a lot of its shortcomings. This is something you can throw on a team for both battling and HMs and it still remains relevant either way (one of the few mons that gets Surf, Waterfall, and Whirlpool in one teamslot).
Lastly, Teddiursa from Crystal specifically. Oh my gosh, this thing is amazing. Yes, Teddiursa is a pain and a half to obtain and get to level 30. Not denying that. But on the other hand, when you reach level 30 you get an absolute powerhouse. Name another non-Kadabra mon that OHKOs Clair's Dragonair. You can't. Name 3 other mons that OHKO Will's Xatu with a neutral move. You can't. Name anything besides Machamp or Poliwrath that 2HKOs Umbreon. You can't. This thing's power was beyond absurd, and unlike Granbull (which I think I honestly overrated a bit in retrospect) 55 Speed is just enough for it to get the jump on many things. I totally understand the arguments for B tier but Ursaring is just so absurdly strong from Chuck onwards I think it's a disservice for it to be below A (it even swept Clair rofl). A tier for me, no higher because it takes a bit to get off the ground. Easily the best Normal type in the game by a landslide (I think it's arguably even better than Fearow) and probably a top ten mon for sure.
okay so uh remember my post from, like, few hours ago? Yeah, so I found out that when your emulator runs 9x faster than the usual speed and you can even speed it up to 15x by holding space and you have only 8 fights to test, two of which are Lance and Karen, it's incredibly easy to test things. Furthermore, I greatly overestimated the amount of runs I needed to test post-Pryce stuff; you need like three runs at best to test the non-obvious ones. So I managed to test some stuff real quickly and will just provide logs for now. In particular, I tested Jynx, Tangela, Lickitung, Rhydon (GS), Teddiursa (G), Dodrio (C), and Skarmory. I also had plans of testing Phanpy (S) and Swinub but decided to just nominate them to E-tier, you will see why.
Jynx
Jynx(33): NMI Ice Punch OHKOes Meganium, Golbat, and Haunter. 2HKOes Magnemite, which paralyzes it. SleepMare can be used here as well
Clair(38): NMI Ice Punch OHKOes Dragonair and 3HKOes Kingdra. You outspeed everything. Kingdra can be put to sleep with Lovely Kiss. Incredible.
Silver(40): OHKOes everything but Magneton and Sneasel
Will(42): OHKOes Xatu and Exeggutor. His own Jynx is 2HKOed by Shadow Ball
Koga(42): NMI Ice Punch 2HKOes Ariados, Venomoth, and Crobat, and 3HKOes Muk. Crobat beats you unless you are at full health, as it 3HKOes with Wing Attack and is faster.
Bruno(42): beats Hitmontop and Onix, along with Hitmonchan if healed. The rest need sleep to be defeated
Karen(42): beats Gengar, Vileplume, and Murkrow. The latter two are OHKOed and outsped
Lance(42): outspeeds and OHKOes all the Dragonites, even at this level. Charizard and Gyarados are outsped, so they can be put to sleep (though both of them crush if they are awake). Incredible
Tangela
Silver(33): it can potentially 1v1 Meganium with Sludge Bomb
Clair(38): you need sleep to get past anything safely. Sludge Bomb is a 4HKO on Dragonair (possibly a 3HKO with PBarb, never tried it).
Silver(40): can 1v1 Meganium. Sneasel and Kadabra can also be defeated, but they weaken you to the point you cannot beat Meganium
Elite Four(42): yeah, it completely drops the ball here
Lickitung
Silver(33): beats Sneasel, Haunter, and Golbat
Clair(38): PB Return 2HKOes Dragonair. It is possible to beat all three of them, but that's heavily luck-dependent
Silver(40): it can beat most things with Return / EQ, only Meganium is an outright loss.
Will(42): outsped by Xatu and Jynx and overwhelmed by them. You won't be able to do much here
Koga(42): 2HKOes Ariados and Venomoth with PB Return
Everyone else: drops the ball
Rhydon
Silver(33): beats everything but Meganium. Watch out for Golbat hax
Clair(38): beats the Dragonair that cannot hit it super effectively
Silver(40): beats everything but Meganium. You may have to heal, depending on if you take enough damage, but only Golbat's hax can cause that
Will(42): 2HKOed by Psychic and it cannot really OHKO anything other than Jynx (which you don't wanna fight anyways)
Koga(42): EQ OHKOes Muk and 2HKOes Venomoth and Ariados (watch out for Giga Drain, though). Toxic stalling is pretty much your only issue here
Bruno(42): spam EQ and you beat all Hitmons. You can even 2HKO Machamp
Karen(42): beats Houndoom and Gengar. Murkrow can be beaten, but it weakens you for Houndoom
Ursaring
Silver(33): PB Return OHKOes Sneasel and Golbat and 2HKOes Meganium. Dig OHKOes the rest. Avoid Haunter due to Curse.
Clair(38): outspeeds and OHKOes all Dragonair with PB Return. Kingdra 3HKOes with Surf while Return 2HKOes. Incredible
Silver(40): OHKOes everything but Meganium (2HKO) with appropriate move. Sweep is possible, but not guaranteed
Will(42): PB Return 2HKOes Exeggutor and Slowbro and OHKOes the rest. The OHKOs, however, are faster and can hax you
Koga(42): PB Return OHKOes Ariados and Venomoth (watch out for Supersonic / Toxic). Forry is OHKOed by Fire Punch. EQ 2HKOes Muk. PB Return 2HKOes Crobat. Sweep is possible if you get lucky enough
Bruno(42): PB Return 2HKOes Machamp and OHKOes the Hitmons, with Chan and Lee being faster. You can live a DKick from Lee and a Mach Punch from Chan together. Machamp generalyl wins if it doesn't miss Cross Chop.
Karen(42): PB Return OHKOes Murkrow and 2HKOes VIleplume and Umbreon. EQ OHKOes the rest. I got a bit lucky and swept her whole team
Dodrio
Silver(33): beats everything but Magnemite
Clair(38): PB Tri Attack puts Dragonair in red. They 2HKO with super effective coverage.
Silver(40): beats everything but Magneton
Will(42): SB Drill Peck OHKOes Jynx and Exeggutor and 2HKOes Xatu. You are beating two members at worst and four members at best if you are lucky enough
Koga(42): SB Drill Peck 2HKOes or OHKOes everything (bar Forry, which is 3HKOed). If you get lucky enough, you can actually sweep
Bruno(42): SB Drill Peck 2HKOes Machamp and OHKOes the other Hitmons. Dodrio barely lives one Rock Slide from Machamp and needs to heal against Hitmonchan to avoid Mach Punch KO
Karen(42): beats Murkrow, Gengar, and Vileplume
Skarmory
Silver(33): beats everything but Magnemite, watch out for Curse, though
Clair(38): SB Fly 2HKOes Dragonair. TBolt is a 3HKO on Skarmory. You are better off beating the non-TBolt ones
Silver(40): beats everything but Magneton
Will(42): cannot OHKO anything here and it gets 4HKOed or so by Psychic (going off memory), so you won't be able to do much here
Koga(42): SB Fly OHKOes Ariados and Venomoth. Swift can be used to safely get past Crobat and Muk, which don't do much to you, if anything, in return. Forry is best to be avoided, unless you want to play around Protect
Bruno(42): SB Fly OHKOes Hitmonchan and Lee and 2HKOes Machamp. Peck is needed for Hitmontop. Lee generally Swaggers you, but if you set up an Agility against it, you can just heal it off and then kill it with Peck
Karen(42): beats Gengar and Vileplume. Murkrow spams Whirlwind
thoughts:
Jynx
This thing is probably the best post-Pryce Pokemon you can possibly use, outclassing even the Legendary Pokemon you can obtain. Jynx easily destroys Clair's Dragonair and even has the potential to 1v1 Kingdra (fun fact, it learns Nightmare as well) thanks to 3HKOing with Ice Punch and having Lovely Kiss. In addition, it destroyed Will, defeating 4/5 of his Pokemon, crushed Lance's Dragonite and even had a chance of 1v1ing Zard and Gyarados and was fairly useful for Karen too, KOing 3/5 of her team. It was a bit meh for Bruno and could've been better for Koga, though Koga is still an okay matchup. I want to be biased and say B-tier as well, as Jynx is great for the three most annoying fights in the end-game, while also being not too shabby elsewhere. It OHKOing Silver's Meganium was also epic. I could see someone arguing for C-tier due to how late it appears, but I am personally fine with B-tier and wouldn't object to that.
Tangela
Yeah, this thing sucks, send it to E-tier. I thought I would find some use for it, but it managed to disappoint me a lot. It barely does anything against Silver and its E4 performance was laughable. Don't use it
Lickitung
This thing also sucks. Nomination assumes that you catch it with a Friend Ball. It's better than Tangela, though, as it's a bit more useful for Silver, but Silver is about the only fight where it wasn't meh. E-tier is more appropriate than D-tier, imo.
Rhydon (GS)
Gonna go with D-tier on this. It's fairly useful for the rest of the game, being good for Silver, Koga, Bruno, and partially Karen. The biggest problem this thing has is that you have to raise a Dratini all the way to level 30 and you get it at like level 10 (and it's fairly expensive to buy too, though you should be able to afford it) and it has to be female, on top of this (you can just SR for it, but it can still be annoying, shouldn't be a huge issue, though, since it's 50/50). I think this is enough to prevent a tier higher than D, but I am happy to admit that I underestimated it in my reference list and to suggest at least something higher.
I think the Crystal variation(s) should be E-tier, though, as Rhyhorn and Rhydon come at the E4. Sure, they have some of the E4 contributions, but what are you grinding them on again? Chances are you have beaten all the trainers on the way to the VR to keep your other teammates on par with the E4's levels. I am not planning on testing it, as this is purely a policy matter.
Teddiursa (G)
If we were to put Teddiursa (C) in A-tier (which, by the way, I can live with, my run with it was preliminary anyways and it's bound to have some flaws in its placement), I want to suggest Teddiursa (G) to C-tier. This Teddiursa is functionally the same as the Crystal one if caught in a Friend Ball. No, really, it is the same, I can't recall a single difference between those for the fights they were available. It can sweep Clair, just like the Crystal one, nukes most of the E4, and even 2HKOes Umbreon. The only difference is that Teddiursa (G) skips seven Gyms... ok that is way worse than I put it, but still, this and Jynx are probably the only post-Pryce Pokemon actually worth using. By the way, if you are worried about flee rate, do know that you can block it with sleep / trapping / freeze. I probably should have mentioned it for Quagsire as well, but I wouldn't vouch for using later Quagsire anyways. But anyways, you have plenty of options for putting to sleep / trapping Teddiursa at this point, so it shouldn't be *too* bad. Could maybe consider D, but given this is functionally the same, just significantly later, I think C-tier makes sense if Crystal version is pushed to A-tier.
Skarmory
D-tier. This one was also underestimated by me and I am happy to provide a higher ranking for it. It walls Koga entirely and is fairly good for Bruno too. Unfortunately, it's in the Slow growth rate and is unimpressive elsewhere, save for Silver fights, so I don't think it should be higher than D, but could be wrong.
Dodrio (C)
D-tier. Similarly, better than expected, crushes most of Silver's team and is fairly good for the E4. The biggest issue is, just like Rhydon, you need to raise a female Dratini all the way to level 30. What's worse here is that Dratini can only be obtained on Route 45 in Crystal and comes at level 10, so your options of grinding it are significantly more limited than if you were playing GS. This is why I think it cannot be higher than D, though it was pretty good for a late-game Pokemon, as a whole.
now, for Swinub and Phanpy, the reason I am gonna suggest putting them in E-tier until someone decides to see if they can be D-tier:
Swinub
so uh, I forgot that it evolved at level 33 and that it leveled up slowly. In addition, it doesn't learn good STAB moves whatsoever (no Dig) before the EQ TM and Strength is its best move. However, it is fairly weak as a Swinub. Needless to say, grinding this requires too much effort and I highly doubt Piloswine is doing much to justify this.
Phanpy (S)
I tried to grind this on skipped trainers and utterly failed at that job. I forgot that it didn't learn Dig and that its strongest mov is Curlout. Given you don't have EQ till the VR, I fail to imagine why I would want to use this, so gonna say preliminary E-tier, though it may be worth actually testing, though it's not like I imagine someone finding it good.
Next team is Raikou / Entei / Suicune / Ho-Oh / Lugia, all on a Crystal run (this shouldn't result in significant changes anyways). My plan is to use them at level 42 for the League with no experience whatsoever. I am planning on this being my last run for this list for the foreseeable future, as there's little left for me to test and it would be better if I just stopped at this point. Expect logs tomorrow, as I am done testing for today
e: Doduo/Dodrio in GS can go to E, since they come after Clair and are harder to grind due to coming slightly underleveled (it will be at least 6 levls below your team at that point), but they also don't need a Dratini to be obtained, so it could go either way.
DrumstickGaming: My definition of a wall is a little different than what maybe used in the competitive metagame. I believe that a wall is something that has 65 or lower of both offensive stats. Meanwhile, something with above average offensive user say like Scrafty is what I would deem a tank. Those have enough offensive power to get them by. If said tank has a good offensive typing, then that goes a long way too. For example, something like Skarmory is usually bad in-game due to having two extremely passive types among other problems. Sorry about the confusion with terminology there.
DrumstickGaming: My definition of a wall is a little different than what maybe used in the competitive metagame. I believe that a wall is something that has 65 or lower of both offensive stats. Meanwhile, something with above average offensive user say like Scrafty is what I would deem a tank. Those have enough offensive power to get them by. If said tank has a good offensive typing, then that goes a long way too. For example, something like Skarmory is usually bad in-game due to having two extremely passive types among other problems. Sorry about the confusion with terminology there.
Honestly I think I truly meant “tank” more than wall despite saying the above. It was early in the morning when I posted that. I think my brain was focusing on the fact Scrafty leans more defensive than offensive, when traditional top tier picks have like 130+ offensive stats. My bad.
But whatever. Might test Voltorb (trade) next if I’m feeling masochistic.
Yeah, honestly Sudowoodo was bad, rock-type is bad at this point of the game and it's just too slow and specially frail to be useful, even against Lance. And having used more things in D-tier, Ledyba fits better in E-tier, it has its uses sometimes but most of the time it will be useless, which is terrible considering except for Whitney, Clair and Lance, the game is easy.
Really cool to see the support for Ursaring, it was really that good too when I was using it and while I still need to test Girafarig and Miltank, I believe there is no doubt except for Fearow that this will be the best Normal-type (and arguably a top 10 mon). But, while I agree with Gyarados (which seems to be a consensus for everyone at this time really), I have to disagree for Stantler. Its movepool is lackluster but it has the right combination of speed and power. I wouldn't mind C-tier but it does pretty well against Whitney and Pryce, Chuck isn't too bad as Poliwrath is 3HKOed and can't OHKO with Dynamic Punch. The Elite 4 was decent too and it could help to take 2 to 3 threats most of the time. I guess Stantler is probably going to be C-tier due to your support and Ryota's, which looks fair but I had a way better experience using it than yours. Looking forward to use Scyther, it looks great.
Really interesting post Ryota, I agree with Jynx in B-tier, it was really that good despite coming late (I still believe Lugia is better for the endgame tho and probably Ho-Oh too) and Teddiursa in C-tier (beating Clair is impressive and it has a strong E4 performance). Nice to see Skarmory's, Rhydon's and Dodrio's performance and I'll try them. And, I don't think anyone is going to challenge Swinub, Phanpy, Tangela or Lickitung. I'm looking forward to your legendary run, especially for Lugia.
Anyway, onto the run :
Falkner (11) : Use Harden Twice. It needs 6 hits for Pidgey with Fury Attack and 11 for Pidgeotto. Seeing as Pidgeotto 4HKOes, it should be a win but it's really unreliable between accuracy and needing multiple hits.
Bugsy (17) : Beedrill can beat cocoons but Scyther is going to win easily as it takes nothing from Fury Attack.
Rival (17) : Beedrill can beat Bayleef, 5HKOing with Poison Sting, while taking nothing back. It can also hope to defeat Zubat, needing 10 hits from Fury Attack to ko it.
Whitney (21) : Twineedle 2HKOes Clefairy but Miltank will just destroy with Rollout.
Rival (22) : Only beats Bayleef, that is 2HKOed by Twineedle.
Morty (25) : Nop
Chuck (30) : 2HKO Primeape and 3HKO Poliwrath with Sludge Bomb. Should be a win as Beedrill can confortably takes 2 Surf.
Jasmine (31) : Nop
Pryce (32) : Seel and Dewgong are 2HKOed and Beedrill can confortably take Icy Wind and 2 Aurora Beam.
Rival (33) : Beedrill can defeat Sneasel and Meganium, 2HKOing them.
Clair (38) : Pretty weird battle. Sludge Bomb 2HKOes Dragonair and Beedrill can easily take 2 hits so with a PRZCureBerry, it can take down the 3 Dragonair, easily taking 3 hits. Kingdra is outsped and 3HKOed by Sludge Bomb. While it should attack, it used Smokescreen most of the time, meaning that if you get lucky enough to hit, it should be a win. Sometimes, it uses Dragon Breath and Hyper Beam that koes but leaves it at a third and not able to do something, meaning something can pick it up. Pretty solid fight and better than unexpected.
Rival (40) : Bedrill can defeat Sneasel, Kadabra and Meganium, the three being outsped and only Meganium is a 2HKO.
Will (40) : Twineedle OHKOes Jynx and Exeggutor, both are outsped. You can also try to put a dent on something afterwards. Alright considering the psychic weakness
Koga (41) : Nop.
Bruno (41) : Sludge Bomb 2HKOes the Hitmon with Poison Barb. Beedrill can take down the three as it easily takes Dig+Fire Punch and Hitmonlee barely damages. Alright matchup.
Karen (41) : Umbreon is 3HKOed (2HKOed if poisonned by Twineedle) and Sludge Bomb 3HKOes Vileplume and 2HKOes Murkrow. Beedrill should beat the three as it takes nothing from Petal Dance and Faint Attack is fairly weak.
Lance (41) : 3HKO Gyarados with Sludge Bomb, while barely living an Hyper Beam. Can't beat something else.
Falkner (11) : Pidgey is beaten as it's 4HKOed by Bubble. Pidgeotto is too much tho, it 4HKOes with Gust and is like 10HKOed.
Bugsy (17/18) : It 3HKOes the cocoons but Scyther is obviously going to win easily against it.
Rival (18) : 3HKO Gastly and 4HKO Zubat, outspeeding them.
Whitney (21) : Clefairy isn't even a guaranteed win as it's 6HKOed.
Rival (22) : Beats Haunter and Zubat.
Morty (25) : Tried this both as Poliwhirl and Poliwrath :
- Poliwhirl : Surf OHKOes Gastly and Surf in Rain OHKOes everything but Gengar that is 2HKOed. Only Gengar outspeeds and as such with a Bitter Berry, it should be a win like 70% of the time (Gengar likes to use Mean Look for some reasons). Really cool considering it's Morty
-Poliwrath : Same as above, except it doesn't outspeed Haunter 2.
Chuck (30) : 2HKO Primeape and outspeed and 4HKO Poliwrath. It's totally AI reliant and Hypnosis helps a lot but sadly Leer + Karate Chop + Dynamic Punch koes. Still, it's very possible to win but I wouldn't call this reliable.
Jasmine (31) : Gave it a PRZCureBerry. Magnemite can't OHKO with Thunderbolt and goes for Thunder Wave nearly all the time anyway. The three mons are outsped and OHKOed by MW Surf under Rain so that's a win.
Pryce (32) : Strength 2HKOes Seel and 3HKOes Dewgong with Pink Bow. Surf 2HKOes Piloswine. Easy win
Rival (33) : Outspeed and 2HKO Golbat, OHKO Magnemite, 3HKO Meganium, OHKO Haunter after Curse and 2HKO Sneasel. While it can't take on Meganium, it can easily defeat the rest.
Clair (38) : Dragonair are 2HKOed by Ice Punch. Poliwrath can only defeat the first and thirs one as Thunderbolt does way too much. Kingdra is impossible to get through.
Rival (40) : 2HKOes Sneasel, Haunter (OHKOes if it uses Curse), Kadabra and Golbat. Should beat the three and avoid the rest as Meganium is 3HKOed and Magneton isn't actually OHKOed by Surf.
Will (40) : Nop, Exeggutor is slower but OHKOes with Psychic and isn't even 2HKOed by Ice Punch.
Koga (40) : Surf 2HKOes Ariados and Foretress and 3HKOes Venomoth. Muk and Crobat are hard to get past.
Bruno (41) : Use Surf, Rain Dance on Dig and Poliwrath should beat Hitmontop and Hitmonchan, 2HKOing them. Hitmonlee will 2HKO afterwards and isn't OHKOed. It also beats Onix.
Karen (41) : Time for Poliwrath to shine. Dynamic Punch + a confusion hit + Surf is enough to kill Umbeon. Poliwath easily defeats Houndoom 2HKOing with Surf. Then, it can hope to beat Murkrow, which is also 2HKOed. Gengar is sadly 2HKOed even after Curse and is going to use Destiny Bond. Pretty nice as Poliwrath should beat 3 mons, including the most annoying one and strongest one.
Lance (41) : Poliwrath can beat Charizard, taking a Slash + Hyper Beam, while 2HKOing with Surf. Can also beat the lvl 47 Dragonite, taking Twister + Hyper Beam.
Falkner (11) : Pidgey is beaten as it's 4HKOed by Bubble. Pidgeotto is too much tho, it 4HKOes with Gust and is like 10HKOed.
Bugsy (17/18) : It 3HKOes the cocoons but Scyther is obviously going to win easily against it.
Rival (18) : 3HKO Gastly and 4HKO Zubat, outspeeding them.
Whitney (21) : Clefairy isn't even a guaranteed win as it's 6HKOed.
Rival (22) : Beats Haunter and Zubat.
Morty (25) : Surf OHKOes Gastly and Surf in Rain OHKOes everything but Gengar that is 2HKOed. Only Gengar outspeeds and as such with a Bitter Berry, it should be a win like 70% of the time (Gengar likes to use Mean Look for some reasons). Really cool considering it's Morty
Chuck (30) : 2HKOes Primeape and while it outspeeds Poliwrath, Politoed barely damages it and unlike Poliwrath, the win is nearly impossible.
Jasmine (31) : NW Surf OHKOes everything and everything is outsped. Clear win.
Pryce (32) : Seel is 2HKOed by Rain NW Surf. The problem is that Rain Dance NW Surf doesn't 3HKO Dewgong (which outspeeds after Icy Wind speed drop) and Dewgong can outstall with Rest. Piloswine is easily defeated by Surf tho.
Rival (33) : Outspeed and 2HKO Golbat, OHKO Magnemite, 2HKO Meganium, OHKO Haunter after Curse and 2HKO Sneasel. It's not a sweep due to Meganium but still a solid battle.
Clair (38) : Dragonair are 2HKOed by Ice Punch. Politoed can defeat the 3 Dragonair as it just has enough bulk to take the hits. Kingdra is impossible to get through.
Rival (40) : 2HKOes Sneasel, Haunter (OHKOes if it uses Curse), Kadabra, Golbat with Surf and Meganium with Ice Punch. A sweep is possible here but unlikely due to taking multiple hits and Curse.
Will (40) : Politoed can only defeat a mon as it 2HKOes everything but Jynx and Slowbro and gets 3HKOed.
Koga (40) : Surf 2HKOes the bugs. Muk and Crobat are hard to get past as thr first is only 4HKOed and the latter is 3HKOed by Ice Punch and can hax easily.
Bruno (41) : Use Surf, Rain Dance on Dig and Poliwrath should beat Hitmontop and Hitmonchan, 2HKOing them. Hitmonlee will 2HKO afterwards and isn't OHKOed. It also beats Onix.
Karen (41) : Only beats Houndoom 1v1, barely taking 2 Crunch. Gengar isn't even OHKOed by Surf after Curse.
Lance (41) : Politoed can beat Charizard, taking a Slash + Hyper Beam, while 2HKOing with Surf. Can also beat the lvl 47 Dragonite, taking Twister + Hyper Beam. It's also possible to beat Aerodactyl that doesn't 2HKO with Ancient Power + Hyper Beam. LVL 50 Dragonite doesn't 2HKO with Outrage and gets 2HKOed. Can beat just one thing at most but still good as it's Lance
Whitney (21) : Outspeed and 2HKO Clefairy with Headbutt. Miltank will be impossible to get through as it nearly 2HKOes with Stomp, barely takes damages and can just start Rollout.
Rival (22) : 2HKO Haunter with Bite after Curse. Range to OHKO Zubat with Headbutt. Should have used Fire Punch for Magnemite but I forgot. Bayleef is too much and outspeeds while 3HKOing with Razor Leaf.
Morty (25) : Bite OHKOes Gastly , 2HKOes Haunter (OHKOes the first one that goes for Curse) and 3HKOes Gengar. Gengar will be really hard to beat with Hypnosis and Dream Eater but Granbull should beat the 3 other mons without too much troubles.
Chuck (30) : Return OHKOes Primeape and 2HKOes Poliwrath. The problem is that both outspeeds and Dynamic Punch nearly OHKOes so this matchup is going to be hard to win.
Jasmine (31) : Magnemite are a range with Charcoal Fire Punch and it doesn't 2HKO Steelix. This means even if you get the range, Steelix should still beat Granbull as it 2HKOes with Iron Tail.
Pryce (32) : OHKOes Seel and 2HKOes Dewgong and Piloswine with Return. It should be a win as even though Dewgong outspeeds, Piloswine barely goes for Blizzard. It's not 100% consistent tho.
Rival (33) : Granbull can oly beat Golbat by 2HKOing with Return, OHKOing Magnemite with Charcoal Fire Punch and 2HKOing Sneasel
Clair (38) : Dragonair are a range with Pink Bow Return but outspeed. Kingdra is too much as it 2HKOes with Surf.
Rival (40) : PB Return OHKOes Golbat, Sneasel and Kadabra and Shadow Ball takes care of Haunter. Magneton lives a Fire Punch and paralyses back. Meganium outspeeds and does a lot with Razor Leaf or can set up Reflect.
Will (40) : Xatu and Jynx are OHKOed but can confuse and put to sleep respectively. Slowbro is defeated, outsped and 2HKOed by Return. Exeggutor outspeeds and 2HKOes with Psychic. Granbull can at most take down Xatu/Jynx and Slowbro.
Koga (40) : Return 2HKOes everything but Foretress which is 2HKOed by Fire Punch. The problem is between toxic, evasion and Protect, Granbull won't be able to beat more than the bug-types.
Bruno (40) : Granbull will only be able to take either Hitmonchan or Hitmontop as Dig and 2 Mach Punch koes it.
Karen (41) : 3HKOes Umbreon that outspeeds so it can easily hax. VIleplume is 2HKOed by Return, Gengar is OHKOed after Curse by Shadow Ball and Murkrow is OHKOed by Return. At most, Granbull might be able to take down the three but not more.
Lance (41) : Granbull beats Gyarados 1v1. Otherwise, lvl 47 Dragonite are a range but it's probably not adviceable with paralysis.
Rival (22) : Only beats Zubat and Bayleef, 2HKOing and 3HKOing with Headbutt respectively. Magnemite actually does too much with Sonic Boom.
Morty (25) : Nop
Chuck (30) : 2HKOes Primeape and 3HKOes Poliwrath with Pink Bow Headbutt, the latter being outsped. It's AI reliant but between misses and possible flinch, it's possible to win
Jasmine (31) : 3 Fire Blast, 3 kills.
Pryce (32) : 2HKOes Seel and 3HKOes Dewgong with Headbutt, easily taking their hits. Piloswine is outsped through speed drop and OHKOed by Fire Blast. Easy win
Rival (33) : 2HKOes Golbat with Headbutt. Meganium, Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed by Fire Blast and Haunter by Shadow Ball. Assuming no miss, it should be a win.
Clair (38) : Dragonair are 2HKOed by Headbutt. Surf and Slam does a lot though so Flareon can only beat 2 of them. Kingdra is obviously too much
Rival (40) : OHKO Zubat, Sneasel, Magneton and Meganium with Fire Blast. Kadabra and Haunter are OHKOed by Shadow Ball. Assuming no miss, it should be a win.
Will (40/41) : Tried this several times. Fire Blast OHKOes Exeggutor and Shadow Ball OHKOes everything but Slowbro that is 2HKOed. Confusion is annoying but assuming no self hitting, Flareon should win if Fire Blast hits as it can take 3 Psychic from Xatus and Jynx and Slowbro always goes for Amnesia.
Koga (41/42) : Fire Blast OHKOes the bugs. Muk is 2HKOed. Didn't bother trying Crobat but I guess it's a 2HKO and Fire Blast is going to miss and has few PPs anyway.
Bruno (42) : Flareon can just hope to take down Hitmontop + Hitmonchan, 2HKOing them with Fire Blast + Headbutt. Alternatively, Flareon can potentially 1v1 Machamp as it 2HKOes with Fire Blast while taking a hit, meaning if you hit 3 Fire Blast (or Machamp misses as you miss), it's a win.
Karen (42) : OHKOes Vileplume and Murkrow with Fire Blast and Gengar with Shadow Ball. Umbreon is going to cheese and Houndoom is 3HKOed and 3HKOes back.
Lance (42) : Nop.
Beedrill
I feel this should be D-tier, albeit barely. It's obviously not good and it relied on weak moves in the begening. However, it still had its uses to the point I think it should be out of E-tier. Training it was actually alright as it's strong for the bellesprout's tower and rechaing level 10 isn't an hard task. It was bad before getting Sludge Bomb, the Falkner battle is mostly irrelevant but still a win most of the time, which is cool and until Whitney it could only defeat the one or two weak mons while losing to the signature mon. However, once it got Sludge Bomb, it became way better, beating Chuck most of the time and Seel/Dewgong against Pryce. Clair was pretty nice as Beedrill has realistic chances to beat Kingdra 1v1 o could at least defeat the three Dragonair with a Berry. While it couldn't do something against Koga, it was able to take down 2 mons against Will and 3 against Bruno. Karen was pretty nice as it's rare to find something that beats quickly Umbreon and having a chance to 2HKO it is nice and it could also defeat Vileplume and Murkrow. Lance was bad outside of Gyarados which is generally free tho. Really, Beedrill is by virtue of its typing and stats not a great option but between utilities in said matchs, it shouldn't be E-tier.
Poliwrath
Just like Ryota, I'm kinda torn between B-tier and C-tier, although I'm leaning toward the latter. Poliwag is obtainable in really early-game which is nice even though it's not going to be particularly useful. Once it evolves tho, it becomes way better and has several good matchup. Morty was great and as were Jasmine and Pryce. The problem I had with Poliwrath is that while it's bulky and has decent speed, its power is rather lackluster and it fails to OHKO or 2HKO stuff (like Rival's Meganium for instance), meaning it wasn't as good as it could have been in some fights like Koga for instance. It was pretty consistent throughout the run tho and except for Will, which was terribly bad, it could at least put in work. Its selling point was probably the Karen's fight because it could defeat Umbreon and Houndoom (and Murkrow) without any problem. That's why I'm hesitant about its tiering, it wasn't that strong but had some wins and could defeat important targets. I'm slightly more toward the C-tier due to back track with DST Trick, the Poliwag phase and Dynamic Punch unaccuracy (if Umbreon starts using Sand Attack, it's impossible to land Sand Attack) but honestly I wouldn't mind either tier and would recommand trying Poliwrath.
By the way, it could be me but I found fighting Morty as a Poliwhirl better for the ability to outspeed Haunter 2 better, it will have less chance to use Night Shade in this case and the extra special attack doesn't matter in this case.
Politoed
This should be C-tier. I expected it to be better than Poliwrath but it's the contrary as Poliwrath was more useful imo. Honestly, Politoed was just like Poliwrath, except with fewer good matchups. It just had the same Jasmine's and Koga's matchup but wasn't actually able to beat Pryce and Chuck and had a far worse Karen. The rest was about the same really except for having more flexibility against Lance (it still only beats one thing tho), killing one more Dragonair against Clair, 2HKOing instead of 3HKOing Meganium against Rival and being able to ko one thing against Will. Not much else to say, tbh I found that Politoed was like a worse Golduck, it's decent and usable but due to average Speed and Special Attack, it won't claim many kills (unlike said Golduck that beats Pryce and does way more against Will and Rival for instance).
Snubbull
Snubbull is C-tier too imo. It's pretty strong (although sometimes I wish it was as strong as Ursaring like against Dragonair, Umbreon or even Magnemite and Steelix) but its speed and lack of special bulk are major hinderance, that can't be overlooked. Honestly, except for Pryce, which still wasn't a 100% guaranteed win, I don't see any great matchup for Snubbull/Granbull. Yes, it's always helpful and leveling up quickly was great but it couldn't sweep any team as it was too slow to do so (I mean come on even Will's Exeggutor outsped). To be fair, Snubbull was just a worse Teddiursa. Except for the Whitney fight that was really similar, nearly all the time I'd rather use Teddiursa. Morty was about the same but Teddiursa at least could 2HKO Gengar with Dig. Ursaring was great for sweeping gym 5-6-7 (even though Chuck relies on not getting confused), something Granbull was unable to do except for Pryce. Most importantly, Ursaring could sweep Clair (which is really incredible) while Granbul struggles to get past 2 Dragonair. The Elite 4 was also worse as Granbull got 2HKOed by Will, couldn't OHKO bugs from Koga, can't OHKO Hitmon against Bruno etc... Really Ursaring totally outclasses it.
Comparisons aside, Snubbull was alright to use and I don't recall a single outright bad fight. The problem mostly lies in the fact that Snubbull gets worn down too quickly by being slow and specially frail. It has its strength like hitting hard, leveling up fast and being found relatively early but in spite of this, I kinda view it like Nidoran. It's a mon that always contributes but can't win by itself and that's why C-tier fits it perfectly.
Flareon
Flareon is C-tier to me. While Morty was a bad fight, it became way better afterwards and was quite useful. Chuck could be defeated with a flinch, Pryce is an easy win and Clair was alright considering the type disadvantage. The Elite 4 was where Flareon shined tho, being able to easily defeat Will, being excellent against Koga, alright vs Bruno and good vs Karen. It had some flaws, like requiring the back track for the Fire Stone and relying on Fire Blast (which is expensive in these games, has low PPs and unaccurate). But, I feel having strong mattchup makes up for it and it seems closer to nidos in C-tier than things like Sudowoodo in D-tier.
Next run is going to be Dunsparce, Zubat, Wooper, Chinchou and Ho-Oh in Gold.
As for Stantler…well, I can see the value of a fast Normal type. I just don’t really understand why this is better than Miltank who has Rollout and Tauros who has flat out superior offenses. Not to mention IIRC both can at least HIT Morty without resorting to Mud-Slap (though Pursuit at level 26 isn’t ideal for Tauros). Heck, I could even see Raticate being better because it has an availability advantage and more time to build up Return.
I get that Normal types usually aren’t world beaters by virtue of the neutral typing everywhere and I shouldn’t have huge expectations like I would for say, Alakazam or Gengar, but I don’t know. I just found Stantler painfully limited and felt like almost anything could have done the job better. The stats are not AWFUL and it got some KOs in the E4 but I just was never that impressed by it, and it felt very similar to Nidoking in terms of “this is alright but never sweeps much.”
I can live with B but I personally wouldn’t agree with it unfortunately. I really wanted to like Stantler but it just felt average.
Also I hope I’m not posting too much or drowning anyone out: I just like being invested in discussion as I’ve been helping with tiering stuff for a long time.
did run with Raikou / Entei / Suicune / Ho-Oh / Lugia. Here is what you need to know
- they gained no experience whatsoever throughout the entire run, so no EVs as well. I don't think this would have changed much, as evidenced by my Teddiursa (G) performing the same as Teddiursa (C) despite the much later availability, but figured I'd mention it anyways
- For Silver, they were level 40 (except Suicune, which was level 41 for Aurora Beam). Afterwards, all were made level 42 to compensate a bit for the lack of EVs.
- All were caught with the story Master Ball. This means that no RNGing was invoved and that they were caught after Clair. Trying to catch them with Ultra Balls (or Heavy Balls in the case of Lugia, though that's an apricorn ball, so you need to farm a lot for those) isn't exactly efficient, so that would outweight any possible good matchups against Clair anyways. This also means their rankings were based only on the six fights where they could be use
- Run was done on Crystal. This shouldn't result in anything different, but figured I'd mention this piece of info as well.
here are the logs:
Raikou
Silver(40): Magnet Thunder in rain OHKOes Haunter, Kadabra, Sneasel, and Golbat. Dig OHKOes Magneton. Strength, funnily, fails to OHKO Kadabra.
Will(42): Magnet Thunder in rain 2HKOes Jynx and OHKOes Xatu and Slowbro. Confusion is your only issue here (and Eggy but you can just skip that)
Koga(42): Magnet Thunder 2HKOes Venomoth and seems to be a 3HKO on Muk, but not 100% sure. The rest are OHKOed.
Bruno(42): Magnet Thunder 2HKOes everything but Onix. You are taking out around two Pokemon at best
Karen(42): Magnet Thunder 2HKOes Houndoom and OHKOes Gengar (after Curse) and Murkrow. 3HKOes Umbreon as well, if you wanna take on that. Houndoom can be defeated even with a Curse from Gengar, as you outspeed and can live a Curse + Crunch
Lance(42): Thunder OHKOes the non-Dragonites. Only Aero outspeeds you and it 3HKOes you with Rock Slide. If you have rain by the time you face Charizard, you can OHKO half of Lance's team
Entei
Silver(40): Charcoal Fire Blast OHKOes Meganium. Dig OHKOes Magneton and Haunter. Strength spam covers the rest handily.
Will(42): Charcoal Fire Blast OHKOes Exeggutor. In sun, it also OHKOes the rest bar Slowbro
Koga(42): beats the Bugs with Fire Blast. The rest are 2HKOed by Charcoal Fire Blast under sun
Bruno(42): Strength into sun Charcoal Fire Blast KOes Hitmontop. Fire Blast then OHKOes Onix. Fire Blast + Strength KO Machamp while you live one Cross Chop. Sun then disappers and you lose to Lee, unless you heal
Karen(42): beats Murkrow and Vileplume. Gengar is 2HKOed by Fire Blast even under sun and can use Spite to remove your Fire Blast PP
Suicune
Silver(41): MW Surf in rain OHKOes / 2HKOes everything but Meganium. Meganum isn't even 2HKOed by Aurora Beam
Will(42): MW Surf in rain seems to OHKO only Xatu #1. Exeggutor is 3HKOed by Aurora Beam. It's not super bad here, but it could have performed better
Koga(42): MW Surf in rain OHKOes Ariados and 2HKOes the rest. You won't be able to sweep, but you can take out the Bugs at worst
Bruno(42): MW Surf, then set up rain as Hitmontop is Digging, then spam MW Surf. You beat all Hitmons this way. You can later bring it back in and KO Onix.
Karen(42): beats Murkrow, Gengar, and Houndoom
Lance(42): MW Surf in rain OHKOes Zard and Aerodactyl. Dragonite is a flat 2HKO with NMI Aurora Beam and they overwhelm you very quickly. Funnily, NMI Blizzard is not a guaranteed OHKO on Lv. 50 Dragonite
Ho-Oh
Silver(40): Charcoal Sacred Fire OHKOes Meganium and Sneasel and 2HKOes Golbat. EQ OHKOes Haunter, Magneton, and Kadabra
Will(42): Spell Tag Shadow Ball OHKOes Xatu and Jynx while outspeeding. 2HKOes Slowbro as well. Sacred Fire handles Exeggutor
Koga(42): beats Ariados and Venomoth with Fly. Charcoal Sacred Fire 2HKOes Crobat and OHKOes Forry. EQ puts Muk in red.
Bruno(42): SB Fly OHKOes the Hitmons, though Hitmontop may spam Detect. Machamp is put in red and OHKOe with Rock Slide.
Karen(42): Charcoal Sacred Fire 2HKOes Murkrow and OHKOes Vileplume. EQ OHKOes Houndoom on rolls and OHKOes Gengar, which Curses. Curse can make those four KOs unreliable, so you may wanna skip Gengar if you aren't willing to risk it.
Lugia
Silver(40): SB Aeroblast OHKOes Sneasel and Meganium and 2HKOes Golbat. EQ OHKOes the rest
Will(42): Shadow Ball 3HKOes Slowbro, 2HKOes Xatu, and OHKOes Jynx. Aeroblast covers Eggy. Jynx is probably the only one that's actually dealing damage to you without confusion
Koga(42): beats Ariados and Venomoth with no problems. SB Aeroblast 2HKOes Crobat and EQ 2HKOes Muk, though Acid Armor turns it into a 3HKO.
Bruno(42): OHKO Hitmontop with SB Aeroblast. Against Onix, let it set up Sandstorm while you 2HKO it with Icy Wind. Then spam Aeroblast and you OHKO everything.
Karen(42): 2HKOes Murkrow with Aeroblast. Even after taking a Faint Attack, Houndoom doesn't KO with Crunch. In return, Lugia outspeeds and 2HKOes with EQ. EQ also 2HKOes Gengar, which also fails to KO you or just Curses itself to death. Vileplume is OHKOed by SB Aeroblast.
Lance(42): unfortunately, Icy Wind is a flat 2HKO here, so it will take some time to beat the Dragonites, unless they overwhelm you before you can KO more of them.
thouhts:
Raikou
ehhh, this felt similar to Magneton in that both just spam ThunderDance at the E4 and are good for Koga, Silver, and (potentially) Will. Raikou was sort of meh against Bruno, though it being able to 1v1 Umbreon thanks to ignoring Sand-attack (though watch out for confusion) is good enough, I guess. I sort of feel bad placing Raikou in the same tier as Magnemite, which at least comes much earlier and can contribute to the earlier fights, though Magnemite also wants the Thunder TM ASAP, wheres Master Ball Raikou comes at a point when you can afford a GC TM without much problem and Fly to Azalea to quickly take the Rain Dance TM, so gonna say D / C on this.
(note: didn't try Spark, as I wasn't sure if it would've helped much. If I distorted performance this way, lmk)
Entei
I am gonna say D-tier on Entei. It relies on the inaccurate Fire Blast to defeat most of its opponents. To make things worse, Fire Blast has only 5 PP, meaning that you are unlikely to sweep anything and that you have to use Ethers on that thing after every fight if you want it to be useful for more than one fight. I tried Strength on some Pokemon, but it wasn't enough; sun Fire Blast was mandatory to achieve some OHKOs/2HKOs. I might be harsh on Entei, but it's hard to justify a Pokemon that is realistically available for only 6 fights (of which one resists Fire) and is forced to spam an inaccurate and low-PP move.
Suicune
Not sure how to feel about Suicune. It's realistically not too different from other Water-types I've used; MW Surf in rain is pretty much needed to hit hard and it often 2HKOes foes this way, just like other Water-types (like Vaporeon). Suicune's only somewhat redeeming qualities are natural Rain Dance and a slightly higher bulk, but the latter wasn't that consequential. Its Aurora Beam, on the other hand, was uterly weak, I couldn't 2HKO things like Exeggutor and Meganium (no NMI since it was holding Mystic Water). With that said, I also didn't spam healing items on it against Lance, which may have led to a worse matchup, though the matchup doesn't look like a great one if you are spending a lot of time there.
As for rank, D / C, slightly leaning towards D, but I wouldn't mind either tier. I just struggle to see why you would use this over most other Water-types, but since we don't do tiering by comparison, I am not gonna resort to this argument a lot. I will say, though, that this is the weakest box Legendary that I've ever used.
Ho-Oh
C / B, this comes down purely to how much you weight late availability and bad Lance matchup against it. Ho-Oh can steamroll most of the remaining fights. It won't sweep all of them (like Karen), but it deals heavy blows on them. Unlike Entei, Ho-Oh has fewer issues with Sacred Fire since it's more accurate and doesn't need to be used every fight (only for select targets), so it doesn't need to be maintained that much. It's hard to ignore the Lance matchup. I normally don't sanction for a bad matchup against him, but given Ho-Oh is available only for six fights, you kind of wanna make every matchup count.
Lugia
C / B as well. Lugia can crush most of the remaining fights, though Will is slightly slower, since it relies there more on its bulk rather than its power. It is pretty good against Koga and Bruno and can also be useful for Karen. Lance was an unfortunate matchup, even with Icy Wind, so it's not as great there. Purely comes down to how much you weight late availability
I know that I am a bit wishi-washy on the rankings, but they are sort of tricky to "get right". In general, I lean towards putting everything there in the lower ranking if used the way I used them, as I think they come too late to really be worth using. Sure, some of them are good for the E4, but most of the higher tiers aren't too far off in terms of performance, so it's not like you are limited in your options and you certainly don't need a box Legendary to win GSC. I could live with the higher options, though I don't think anything here should be A-tier.
Anyways, as I said in my previous post, this run was intended to be my last one for this list for the foreseeable future. I didn't test some things and I don't really want to test everything anyways. I will remain active in the thread and help out with tiering (and may occassionally boot up a run if I feel like it), but for now, I will stop testing for GSC and hopefully help in working towards pushing this to write-ups. I think we have a consensus on a great amount of Pokemon and some Pokemon can also be automatically put in E-tier (per my reference list), so hopefully, we get to write-ups in the near future (although I am not the person dictating the list, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt)
DrumstickGaming : I agree that Tauros is better than Stantler (Miltank too probably but I still need to use it) but Stantler has the advantage of coming earlier and being great against Whitney. Otherwise, Tauros is better but the difference isn't so important. Morty is hard for Tauros anyway as Surf is way too weak, Chuck should be a win for Tauros but Stantler has good odds to win against it I felt, Pryce is the same win and both can 1v1 Kingdra against Clair and beat up to 2 Dragonair while being worse against Jasmine's Steelix as it can't 1v1 Steelix like Tauros. Tauros had a bit better E4, even though it was still relatively similar. All in all Tauros is a B-tier for sure (and I don't think anyone will contest this) and Stantler had (slightly) worse performance but came earlier and was nice for Whitney thus I think having both in the same tier would make sense but I wouldn't mind Stantler being in C-tier (and it's possible that it happens seeing as both you and Ryota felt it was C-tier).
Ryota Mitarai : Really interesting run. Having used all of these mons (except for Ho-Oh I'm currently running), I agree with these tiers (changed my mind considering these mons come really late and require Master Ball). Entei is fine in D-tier because it relies on Fire Blast (low PPs and unaccurate) and struggles against Lance outside of beating Charizard. Raikou I think would be fine in the same tier as Magneton. Magneton wasn't even that good before the Elite 4, against Jasmine it can only sometimes beat Steelix, beats Seel/Dewgong against Pryce and struggles against Clair as Kingdra 2HKOes. Raikou makes up for this by having a slightly better Elite 4 against Bruno and Karen (and Lance's Charizard). Suicune would be fine in C-tier I think, it's self-sufficient and easier to get compared to Entei and Raikou but yeah it's a bulkier and faster generic water-type that learns Aurora Beam and Rain Dance naturally. It might be me but I prefered NVI to guarantee the 2HKO on Exeggutor against Will but had otherwise the same experience as you really. Anyway, C-tier seems better because it doesn't require any TM, is easier to catch than Raikou or Entei and should take down 3 mons against each Elite 4 while having a good Lance. Lugia is the best legendary of the bunch (Ho-Oh doesn't seem as good as it) and is B-tier for sure. It requires several tms (but then Shadow Ball and Earthquake aren't exactly contested) but it's really that good, beating easily the rival and each Elite 4 (barring Koga's hax). It could be my DVs but I remember my Lugia could OHKO Murkrow and Gengar, allowing a way better matchup. Lance was really great as it can defeat easily Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodactyl 1v1 while healing with Recover. Level 47 Dragonite were a bit annoying due to para but assuming healing it, Lugia has real hopes to win by itself. Really, I have no doubts Lugia deserves B-tier, it's really that good for the late-game and having it in the same tier as Jynx (that comes earlier and has the advantage of being amazing against Clair) makes sense.
Sorry for the double post but here is the run. Note that my Golbat evolved at level 33 right before facing rival.
Falkner (10) : Just spam Rage and win, you easily take hits and it only requires 5 hits to secure the win.
Bugsy (16/17) : Like Falkner, Rage is the way to go. After getting hit by the cocoons and Fury Cutter, it should 2HKO Scyther (you still take 2 Fury Cutter most of the time even after being hit by cocoons so shouldn't be a problem).
Rival (17) : Avoid Gastly (didn't bother to try Mud Slap). Rage should take care of Bayleef and Zubat.
Whitney (20) : Didn't try Curlout as Rage worked once again really well here. By spamming it, Dunsparce could generally 2HKO Miltank once it comes and Clefairy isn't much of a problem (and Double Slap is amazing for the rage boost). I tried this several times and it always resulted in a sweep.
Rival (22) : Curse is annoying so it's better to either avoid Haunter or switch out of Magnemite. Anyway, Haunter is OHKOed by Dig and as is Magnemite. Bayleef is a speed tie and 3HKOed by Headbutt and Zubat is nearly OHKOed. Not a sweep but Dunsparce can hope to take down 3 mons.
Morty (25) : Curlout seems the best strat here. Dunsparce can outspeed and OHKO the first Magnemite with Dig and OHKO Haunter #1 with Dig. Gengar is 2HKOed by it and Haunter #2 is a 2HKO but can't damage it. Dunsparce should beat 3 mons using these strats. Curlout is better because it will ko each mon assuming it doesn't miss and by holding a Bitter Berry, the odds to win are fiarly high (I'd say around 65% as Gengar sometimes uses Mean Look).
Chuck (31) : 2HKO Primeape with Headbutt and 3HKO Poliwrath, which is outsped. It's luck reliant as usual with Chuck but a win is far from impossible as Dunsparce can hope a miss or a flinch with Headbutt.
Jasmine (31) : Outspeed and OHKO Magnemite with Dig. Steelix is too much.
Pryce (32) : Curlout is the way to go as it 3HKOes Seel and OHKOes Dewgong and Piloswine which can't hope to kill back assuming there is no miss. Alternatively, Headbutt can put work, 2HKOing Seel and 3HKOing Dewgong and Piloswine. The problem is that the two latter outspeed after a speed drop.
Rival (33) : 2HKO Golbat with Return. OHKO Magnemite and Haunter with Dig after Curse. 3HKOes Meganium but Reflect is going to be annoying tho Dunsparce still beats it 1v1.
Clair (38) : Assuming no paralysis, Dunsparce can take down the 3 Dragonair, 2HKOing each of them whiletaking hits pretty well. Return 3HKOes Kingdra and it 3HKOes so barring it using Smokescreen, it's hardly beatable 1v1.
Rival (40) : OHKO Sneasel, 2HKO Golbat, OHKO Magneton with Dig, OHKO Haunter as it uses Curse with Dig and Kadabra with Return. Meganium will be too much, only being 3HKOed. But, Dunsparce can still beat 5 mons which is great.
Will (40): Can only claim a kill. 2HKOes Xatus as it 3HKOes. 3HKOes Exeggutor as it 3HKOes. Jynx is a bit risky due to Lovely Kiss but gets OHKOed by Return.
Koga (40) : Return 2HKOes Ariados and Venomoth. Avoid Foretress. 3HKO Muk with Return. Luck reliant but Dunsparce should claim 3 kills here.
Bruno (40) : Return 2HKOes Hitmontop and Hitmonchan and Dunsparce is able to take 2 Digs and 2 Mach Punch so it can beat both. Can't do anything against the rest.
Karen (40) : 3HKOes Umbreon with Return. Can beat Vileplume (3HKOed) + Murkrow (2HKOed). Loses 1v1 to Houndoom as Flamethrower 2HKOes.
Lance (40) : Beats Gyarados 1v1 as it goes for Rain Dance and can't 2HKO with Surf + HyperBeam.
Falkner (10) : Nop
Bugsy (16) : Only beat the cocoons
Silver (16) : 2HKOes Gastly, 5HKOes Bayleef and 4HKOes Zubat. Zubat is annoying but your own Zubat should beat Gastly and Bayleef.
Whitney (20) : Only beats Clefairy, 4HKOing. Miltank is obviously too much (and I don't see a level 22 Golbat doing something signifiant against it)
Rival (22) : Outspeed and 2HKO Haunter with Bite. Avoid Magnemite. 5HKO Bayleef while taking nothing and 3HKO Zubat.
Morty (25) : Outspeed and OHKO Gastly with Bite. Outspeed and 2HKO Haunter. Gengar is only 3HKOed and is hard to get past. Still relatively good as it can hope to beat 3 mons.
Chuck (30) : Outspeed and OHKO Primeape and 2HKO Poliwrath. Clean sweep.
Jasmine (31) : Nop
Pryce (32) : 2HKO Seel and 3HKO Dewgong. Golbat can only defeat Seel as Dewgong 2HKOes with Aurora Beam.
Rival (33) : Outspeed and 2HKO everything but Magnemite and Haunter (OHKOed by Wing Attack) with Sharp Beak Wing Attack.
Clair (38) : Wing Attack 2HKOes Dragonair. Due to super effective moves, Crobat should only beat 2 Dragonair at most. Beats Kingdra 1v1 as it 3HKOes with Fly + 2 Wing Attack and is only 3HKOed.
Rival (40) : Fly OHKOes Sneasel, Kadabra and Haunter while Wing Attack 2HKOes Meganium (it's better to avoid using Fly due to Reflect) and Golbat. Great outside of Magneton.
Will (40) : Beats a Xatu, barely living a Psychic and 2HKOing with Fly+Wing Attack and Jynx, OHKOed by Fly. Alright considering the type disadvantage.
Koga (40) : OHKOes Ariados and Venomoth with SB Wing Attack. Avoid Foretress due to Explosion. Muk is 3HKOed by Wing Attack and can't do much with Sludge Bomb. The other Crobat is outsped and 3HKOed by Wing Attack.
Bruno (40) : 2HKO Hitmontop with Wing Attack as it goes for Quick Attack. Avoid Onix. OHKO Hitmonlee with Wing Attack and Hitmonchan with Fly. Rock Slide from Machamp doesn't ko even after Quick Attack and it gets 2HKOed by Wing Attack. Really great here as Crobat is one of the few things along Pidgeot able to take down the three hitmon and Machamp by itself (and Onix is never a problem).
Karen (40) : 4HKO Umbreon. Outspeed and 2HKO Gengar as it uses Curse. 2HKOes Vileplume and Murkrow with Wing Attack. Houndoom is 3HKOed and 2HKOes back with Flamethrower. Pretty nice as Crobat can at least beat 2 mons and 3 according to the order she sends her pokemon.
Lance (40) : Only beats Gyarados, 3HKOing with Fly + 2 Wing Attack while it goes for Rain Dance and Hyper Beam.
Bugsy (16) : Only beats the cocoons.
Rival (16) : Beats Gastly and potentially Zubat if lucky with confusion.
Whitney (20) : Dig 2HKOes Clefairy. It's hopeless against Miltank tho as it's going to use Milk Drink and slowly overwhelm.
Rival (22) : OHKO Haunter and Magnemite with Dig. Zubat is OHKOed by Surf.
Morty (25) : Dig is an OHKO on everything but Quagsire is so slow to the point even Gastly outspeeds. It still puts in work but between Curse and Hypnosis, a sweep is highly unlikely.
Chuck (30) : 2HKO Primeape with Surf and 4HKO Poliwath with Strength. Leer + Dynamic Punch is nearly an OHKO and as Poliwrath outspeeds, it's ard to win.
Jasmine (31) : Outspeed and OHKO Magnemite with Dig. 2HKO Steelix with Surf (3HKO if it uses Sunny Day). Easy win.
Pryce (32) : Strength 2HKOes Seel and 3HKOes Dewgong. Surf is a 2HKO on Piloswine. Quagsire is favored here barring an attack drop from Aurora Beam.
Rival (33) : Surf 2HKOes Golbat with Mystic Water as well as Sneasel. Dig OHKOes Magnemite and Haunter. Pretty good outside Meganium.
Clair (38) : Earthquake 2HKOes Dragonair, even with Soft Sand. Seeing as how Dragonair 5HKOes with Dragon Breath, Quagsire can only beat two. Kingdra 2HKOes with Surf and is only 3HKOed.
Rival (40) : Earthquake OHKOes Sneasel, Surf 2HKOes Golbat, Earthquake OHKOes Kadabra, Haunter and Magneton. Easily defeats these 4.
Will (40) : Everything but Slowbro outspeeds. Surf 2HKOes Xatu which only 3HKOes so you can beat it. Slowbro is 3HKOed by Earthquake. Jynx is OHKOed by Earthquake. Psychic from Exeggutor 2HKOes. Except if it beats Xatu and Jynx goes for Double Slap, Quagsire won't be able to claim more than one kill.
Koga (40) : 2HKO Ariados and Venomoth with Earthquake. Avoid Foretress as you 3HKO it and it has Explosion. Crobat is going to hax. Muk is OHKOed by Earthquake which is great.
Bruno (40) : OHKO Hitmontop while it uses Dig with Earthquake. It's sometimes ossible to beat the three Hitmon as Quagsire 2HKOes Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee with Earthquake while barely taking High Jump Kick + Double Kick + 2 Mach Punch.
Karen (40) : 3HKO Umbreon with Earthquake. OHKO Gengar and Houndoom with Earthquake. It's possible to take down the three if lucky enough.
Lance (40) : Beats a lvl 47 Dragonite, 2HKOing with NVI Ice Punch. Otherwise, it can beat either Aerodactyl or CHarizard 1v1.
Rival (22) : OHKO Haunter after Curse with Surf, outspeed and OHKO Magnemite with it. Avoid Bayleef and Zubat is a range. Beats the three mons outside the starter
Morty (25) : Outspeed and OHKO Gastly with Surf. Haunter #1 is surprisingly outsped and 2HKOed by Surf. Haunter #2 outspeeds but is 2HKOed. Gengar is too much as it outspeeds and is only 3HKOed. Still good as Chinchou can hope to defeat three mons.
Chuck (30) : Lanturn outspeeds both and 2HKOes with Surf and Spark. Clean sweep.
Jasmine (30) : MW Surf is range on Magnemite and 2HKOes Steelix. Should still result in a sweep most of the time.
Pryce (32) : OHKOes Seel and 2HKOes Dewgong with Magnet Spark. Piloswine is 2HKOed by Surf. Alternatively, it's possible to use Mystic Water and Piloswine will be a range. Either way it's a solid win without any problem.
Rival (33) : 2HKO Golbat and Sneasel with Surf. OHKO Magnemite and Haunter after Curse with Surf. Easily beats these 4.
Clair (38) : Outspeed Kingdra and 2HKOes with Magnet Thunder. Not hard to win as Kingdra mostly goes for Smokescreen.
Rival (40) : Surf 2HKOes Sneasel. Flee Meganium and use Rain Dance on Golbat. From there, Lanturn can OHKO Golbat with Thunder and outspeed and OHKO Magneton, Kadabra and Haunter with Surf. Pretty good.
Will (40) : Magnet Thunder OHKOes both Xatu and Slowbro. Jynx is 2HKOed by Surf. Lanturn can claim at most 3 kills here as it only outspeeds Slowbro. It's possible to beat Xatu, Slowbro and Jynx but be wary of confusion.
Koga (40) : Surf under Rain OHKOes Ariados and 2HKOes Foretress and Venomoth. Muk is 3HKOed by Thunder and Crobat is OHKOed. It's hard to win due to poison but Lanturn is great here as it should beat the bugs and Crobat.
Bruno (40) : Beats Hitmontop with Surf + Rain boosted Surf and Hitmonchan by 3HKOing as well as Onix with Surf. Hitmonlee does too much and Machamp 2HKOes with Cross Chop.
Karen (40) : Magnet Thunder 4HKOes Umbreon. Gengar isn't even OHKOed by Surf after Curse so avoid this. Beats Houndoom + Murkrow as it 2HKOes with Surf and OHKOes with Magnet Spark respectively while taking 2 Crunch and a Faint Attack.
Lance (40) : outspeed and 3HKO Gyarados with Spark. Can beat either Aerodactyl or CHarizard 1v1, being 3HKOed while 2HKOing with Surf.
Rival (40) : Outspeed everything. Sneasel, Meganium and Magneton are OHKOed by Sacred Fire. Golbat is 2HKOed by Shadow Ball. Kadabra and Haunter are OHKOed by Shadow Ball. Easy sweep.
Will (41) : Ho-Oh outspeeds everything. Shadow Ball OHKOes Xatus and Jynx and 2HKOes Exeggutor and Slowbro. No trouble winning here.
Koga (41/42) : Fly OHKOes Ariados and Venomoth. Foretress is OHKOed by Sacred Fire. Muk is 2HKOed by Earthquake. Crobat is 2HKOed by Sacred Fire. Barring major unluck, Ho-Oh should sweep (Sacred Fire burn helps against Crobat in that regard).
Bruno (42) : Earthquake 2HKOes Hitmontop. Onix then goes for Sandstorm while being 2HKOed by Earthquake. Hitmonchan is OHKOed by Fly. Then, Machamp comes and is OHKOed by Fly. Hitmonlee is OHKOed by Fly. I tried this several times and Onix using Sandstorm is clutch.
Karen (42/43) : 3HKO Umbreon with Fly and 2 Earthquake. Gengar is OHKOed by Earthquake. Murkrow is OHKOed by Sacred Fire. Vileplume is OHKOed by Fly. Houndoom is outsped and OHKOed by Earthquake. A sweep is possible here, even though Umbreon is going to be annoying.
Lance (43) : Pretty bad. 2HKOes Gyarados with Fly. Dragonite are only 3HKOed by Fly and it's hard to hit assuming paralysis (not to mention Thunder hits duringthe charging tour). Still Ho-Oh beats Gyrados, Charizard and level 50 Dragonite which is pretty cool.
Honestly, with the possible exception of Ho-Oh, most mons were kinda average and deserve C-tier.
Dunparce
Dunsparce was a bit better than expected. While it can be tricky to find (got lucky and Dunsparce was the fourth thing I encountered in Dark Cave), it had a really strong early game performance, sweeping with ease the first 3 gyms thanks to Rage. While this doesn't matter for Falkner, having a mon that can defeat Whitney easily is always great due to how painful she can be. However, it doesn't stop here as Dunsparce was still alright to good afterwards, being able to potentially win against Morty and especially Pryce with Curlout. Even Chuck wasn't that bad as Dunsparce outspeeds and 3HKOes Poliwrath with Headbutt and it could at least beat Jasmine's Magnemite. Clair was good as Dunsparce can beat the three Dragonair by itself. The E4 was pretty bad but at least Dunsparce could take down at least 1 mon per fight and sometimes more. I think that coming really early, not being hard to train (it's bulky, relatively strong with Headbutt/Return and not that slow), strong early game performance and ability to do something throughout the adventure make up for the 1% encounter rate and C-tier would be perfect for Dunparce.
Zubat
Zubat was really bad before evolving (it's probably better to catch it at the union cave because before getting Swift and Bite, it's barely impossible to train outside of Bellsprout tower) but was way better afterwards. Golbat was great against the rival outside of Magnemite/Magneton all the time and had a strong Morty performance. Chuck was a free win which is always great and Crobat could beat Claire's Kingdra 1v1. Its selling point tho was the Bruno performance, as it could defeat the three Hitmon and Machamp. This is particularly great because except for Pidgeot and like Kadabra/Alakazam, it's hard to find a mon able to do so (and Onix is so easy to ko to the point it hardly matters). Koga was also pretty good and Crobat has great chance to win by itself. Even against Will and Karen, Crobat was able to take down 2 and 3 mons. Really the combination of being an early encounter really easy to find, not too hard to train once it's a Golbat and several amazing matchup (Chuck, Koga and Bruno) and some otherwise good matchup (Morty and Clair) makes this mon C-tier.
Wooper
Wooper is another C-tier. As a Wooper, it was fairly useless but became way better as a Quagsire. It didn't have many outright wins outside of Jasmine but was still consistent in most gyms, Morty and Pryce being great for instance. Quagsire was a bit like Granbull, it's strong and relatively bulky and it doesn't have a single really bad matchup but it sadly can't really pull a win by itself due to its lackluster speed. It's more of a "glue" that always helps no matter the fight but can't defeat an opponent. Not much to add and I don't think this will be contested but Wooper deserves C-tier.
Chinchou
Chinchou likewise is also C-tier. It's really strong once you get til until Clair, sweeping with ease Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce and not too hard to train as it comes at level 20. It's good against Clair as it can beat Kingdra 1v1 but becomes worse at the Elite 4. WIll isn't that good due to Confuse Ray, Koga isn't the fight that matters the most, it can't hope to defeat something outside of Hitmonchan, Hitmontop and Onix against Bruno which are the 3 easiest mons to deal with. Defeating Houndoom against Karen but it sadly can only beat it and Murkrow and not more. Lance was kinda bad as it can only beat one thing without healing. My main problem with Chinchou tho is the slow growth rate as it takes away a lot of experience from the team and training it can take time. Chinchou was still pretty fun to use and I recommend everyone trying it as it's an unique water-type but between slow growth rate, needing the Thunder TM and back track for Rain Dance as well as having an average at best Elite 4, C-tier is good for it.
Ho-Oh
I'm torn between B- and C-tier on this although I'm leaning toward the latter. Ho-Oh is obviously great against the rival and the Elite 4. The problem is that it comes so late and isn't good against Lance which is by far the most important fight. Lance is always going to be hard and few things are good against him but I think a late game encounter like Ho-Oh should do better against the Champion. It's probably more of a matter of tiering philosophy but I don't value the rival fight and Koga too much as they are fairly easy most of the time. Outside of Lance, Ho-Oh was incredible, beating with ease Silver and the Elite 4, never struggling, even against Karen which should get beaten confortably. I think Ho-Oh fits better in C-tier because unlike Lugia it's not good against Lance but I wouldn't mind B-tier as well.
Next run is going to be Phanpy, Heracross, Aipom and Staryu.
It's been two weeks as of today since my last post regarding placements. I never finished my test but my tiering would not have differed from what was said here. As a result, I will not count my experiences in regards to these placements.
Totodile is placed in A Tier. It should not come as a surprise. Numerous people have stated that this mon, while feeling like an S early on, falls short to be an S Tier. A lot of it's MUs are riddled with 3HKOs or higher. Some MUs are just not favorable to it as well (Chuck and Clair). While it has bulk and the ability to deal back some pretty good hits, it does not qualify for S Tier due to lacking power later on in its lifespan
Nidoran (M) is placed in C Tier. Testers have stated that C Tier is a better fit for it due to middling power (They tend to not OHKO super effective MUs) , a good chunk of investment (A fair usage of TMs), and lack of good MUs.
Spearow is placed in A Tier. Spearow is one of the better normals in GSC. It is obtained early on in the game, able to sweep a good majority of the game, and has very few MUs where it can't do much. While there was an argument for S, this was quickly dropped and A was a more common nomination.
Growlithe is placed in B Tier (Crystal). Coming in right before Falkner is a good spot for it and allows it to get those early MUs that it desperately needs to achieve this rank. What disbars this from A tier is some investment required for it to break out of C tier. Dig (not usually contested), Fire Blast (a LOT of money), and Sunny Day to allow FB to hit some OHKOs. Another factor is requiring the a bit of a backtrack for the DST Trick if you want Arcanine before Whitney (as the shortcut won't be open yet). It also has a Slow Growth Rate which hurts it a bit as well. As for MUs, it sweeps a fairly good chunk of the early game ones and falters around the mid game before picking back up slightly at the end game. These compounded hurt it in the end.
With these four out of the way, it's time for some more Pokemon to get placed. Gyarados, Pidgey, Jynx, Wooper, Mareep, Nidoqueen, and Magmar. The time limit on these is 2 weeks as well. So on September 1st is when these will be placed. Thank you all for your continued testing.
Bugsy (19) : I tried setting up 6 Defense Curl against Metapod and it still resulted in a loss, as Scyther could still 6HKO with Fury Cutter. Pretty bad matchup (especially considering it had a high level)
Rival (20) : 2HKOes Gastly with Mud Slap, avoid Croconaw as it 3HKOes with Water Gun and 3HKO Zubat with Tackle.
Whitney (21) : Curlout should sweep as it 2HKOes both Clefairy (which is outsped) and Miltank. Just be wary of misses or possible Stomp flinch.
Rival (22) : 2HKOes Haunter with Mud Slap as it uses Curse. Flee Croconaw. OHKO Magnemite with Mud Slap. 2HKO Zubat with Headbutt.
Morty (25) : Donphan only outspeeds the fist Gastly. The best strategy here is Curlout by setting it on Gastly. Gastly is OHKOed by it, as are both Haunter. Sometimes, Gengar comes second and lives the second Rollout. It's really AI reliant and you need to hit but a sweep is largely possible with a Bitter Berry.
Chuck (30) : Curlout can win here. It 3HKOes Primeape and OHKOes Poliwrath, resulting in a possible sweep as Donphan outspeeds the second mon. The problem is that you absolutely need to hit as otherwise Poliwrath is going to ko with Surf.
Pryce (32) : Curlout 2HKOes Seel and OHKOes Dewgong. Dewgong outspeeds after speed drop and does a lot with Aurora Beam. Piloswine outspeeds after speed drop and Blizzard does too much. Still alright as it can beat 2 mons with a type disadvantage.
Rival (33) : 3HKOes Golbat with Headbutt. Avoid Ferraligatr. OHKO Haunter and Magnemite with Mud Slap. 2HKO Sneasel. Should beat Haunter, Magnemite and Sneasel easily but Golbat can be annoying.
Clair (38) : Only beats at best 2 Dragonair as Surf and Ice Beam 2HKOes while Strength 2HKOes.
Rival (40) : OHKOes Sneasel. Avoid Ferraligatr. 2HKOes Golbat with Strength. OHKOes Kadabra, Haunter and Magneton.
Will (40) : Nop. Only potentially beats Slowbro as Earthquake is a roll for the 2HKO. The rest outspeeds and 2HKOes.
Koga (40/41) : 2HKO Ariados, OHKO Venomoth and OHKO Muk. Foretress is a 3HKO and will most likely use Explosion. Crobat is just going to hax
Buno (41) : Donphan OHKOes Hitmontop as it goes for Dig, OHKOes Onix with Earthquake, OHKOes Hitmonlee and 2HKOes both Machamp, which is outsped and Hitmonchan. As Donphan can take a hit from Hitmonlee, an Earthquake from Onix and either a Cross Chop from Machamp or 2 Ice Punch from Hitmonchan, it can take down 4 mons. Amazing matchup as Donphan beats 4 mons including the star by itself.
Karen (41) : Beats Houndoom 1v1 and that’s it.
Lance (41) : Wins 1v1 against either Aerodactyl or the Thunder Dnite. Loses to the rest
Whitney (20) : Fury Cutter 3HKOes Clefairy and 2HKOes Miltank. A miss or a flinch can prevent the sweep but due to how bulky Heracross is, it's still favorable.
Rival (22) : Avoid Haunter. 3HKOes Croconaw and Magnemite with Headbutt and 2HKOes Zubat with it.
Morty (25) : Nop
Chuck (31) : Outspeed and 2HKOes Primeape with Strength and 3HKOes Poliwrath. Should win here as it takes Surf really well.
Jasmine (32) : Nop
Pryce (32) : 2HKOes Seel and 3HKOes Dewgong and Piloswine with Strength, while outspeeding even after Icy Wind. Heracross should win except if Piloswine hits 3 Blizzard.
Rival (33) : 2HKO Sneasel and 3HKOes Ferraligatr with PB Headbutt. Avoid the rest
Clair (38) : Beats the 3 Dragonair, 2HKOing wit PB Headbutt while being 6HKOed. Alternatively, it can win 1v1 against Kingdra as even Hyper Beam is a 3HKO and Heracross outspeeds and 3HKOes.
Rival (40) : Outspeed and 2HKO Sneasel. OHKO Haunter with Earthquake. 3HKO ferraligatr and OHKO Kadabra.
Will (40) : Nop. Everything 2HKOes and Heracross only 3HKOes.
Koga (40) : Only wins against Venomoth and Ariados.
Bruno (40/41) : Beats the 3 Hitmon and Onix, 2HKOing with PB Strength and Earthquake respectively. Avoid Machamp as Rock Slide does too much.
Karen (41) : OHKO Gengar with Earthquake, 2HKO Murkrow and 3HKOes Vileplume with Strength. Should beat the three.
Lance (41) : 3HKOes Gyarados while outspeeding and not being 2HKOed.
Whitney (20) : Fury Cutter 4HKOes Clefiary and 2HKOes Miltank. It's a bit luck reliant but Aipom can usually take 2 Rollout from Miltank and has great hopes to win.
Rival (22) : 3HKOes Croconaw and Magnemite with Headbutt and 2HKOes Zubat. Barring Supersonic unluck, it should beat the three.
Morty (25) : Nop
Chuck (30) : 2HKOes Primeape with Headbutt and 3HKOes Poliwrath. Luck reliant but there is a realistic chance to win as Primeape can't OHKO.
Jasmine (31) : Nop
Pryce (32) : 2HKOes Seel and 3HKOes Dewgong, while outspeeding the latter in spite of speed drop. Piloswine is 3HKOed. Aipom should have no problems winning against the first two.
Rival (33) : 2HKOes Golbat and Sneasel with Return. OHKOes Haunter with Shadow Ball. 3HKOes Ferraligatr. Aipom should beat the whole team with the exception of Magnemite here.
Clair (38) : With a PRZCureBerry, Aipom is able to beat the three Dragonair. It 2HKOes with Return and is 4HKOed. It’s also possible to sometimes 1v1 Kingdra as it gets 2HKOed by Return +Screech+Return and goes for Smokescreen or Hyper Beam while being outsped. It’s way more reliable to beat the three Dragonair though.
Rival (40) : OHKOes Sneasel, Kadabra and Haunter with Return or Shadow Ball respectively. 2HKOes Golbat and Ferraligatr is a range for the 2HKO with Return.
Will (40) : Beats either Xatu or Exeggutor, outspeeding and 2HKOing with Shadow Ball. Jynx is outsped and OHKOed by Return.
Koga (40) : 2HKOes Ariados and Venomoth with Return and Foretress with Fire Punch. Avoid the rest.
Bruno (40) : 2HKOes Hitmontop with Return and 2HKOes Onix with Ice Punch.
Karen (40) : Only beats Murkrow and Gengar
Lance (40) : 3HKOes Gyarados while it goes for Rain Dance and can’t OHKO.
Rival (22) : Surf 2HKOes Haunter, OHKO Magnemite and Zubat. Croconaw is 4HKOed and can be beaten with Surf and Recover assuming no Curse
Morty (25) : Outspeeds everything and OHKOes Gastly and Haunter with Surf and 2HKOes Gengar. With a Bitter Berry to prevent sleep,it’s an easy win.
Chuck (30) : Rain MW Surf OHKOes Primeape and Thunder 2HKOes Primeape. No problem here.
Jasmine (31) : Surf OHKOes everything.
Pryce (32) : Surf OHKOes Piloswine. Thunder OHKOes Seel and 2HKOes Dewgong. Another clear win.
Rival (33) : Rain Dance Surf OHKOes Golbat, Magnemite and Sneasel. Ferraligatr is 2HKOed by Thunder+ Surf. Haunter is OHKOed by Surf.
Clair (38) : Blizzard OHKOes Dragonair. Starmie isn’t going to beat Kingdra most of the time as it gets 3HKOed by Hyper Beam and 2 Surf while it 3HKOes and has to set up Rain Dance for Thunder.
Rival (40) : Set up Rain Dance on Sneasel and everything but Gatr (Thunder is a range) is OHKOed by Surf. Starmie just has to setup another Rain Dance on Kadabra. Clean win.
Will (40/41) : Thunder OHKOes Xatus and 2HKOes Slowbro. Blizzard OHKOes Exeggutor. Rain Surf 2HKOes Jynx. Assuming Jynx doesn’t go for Lovely Kiss, it should be a clear win here.
Koga (41/42) : Rain Dance Surf OHKOes the bugs. Muk is 2HKOed by Rain Surf + unrain Surf. Crobat is 2HKOed by Thunder but outspeeds. Starmie does really well but between Muk and Crobat attacking and Foretress possibly using Protect (and thus Muk being 3HKOed), it’s luck reliant.
Bruno (42) : Use Surf and Rain Dance on Dig to 2HKO Hitmontop. Hitmon are 2HKOed by Rain Dance Surf + Surf as is Machamp. It’s really AI reliant (and weirdly enough the moves used are always different) but while Starmie can help a lot, winning is kinda tricky because it’s going to get overwhelm.
Karen (42) : Avoid Umbreon. Try to set up Rain on Murkrow as otherwise, Houndoom isn’t OHKOed. Surf is a 2HKO on Gengar and it’s going to use Curse. Good as Starmie should beat three mons, including the star.
Lance (42/43) : Starmie outspeeds everything but Aerodactyl. Use Thunder On Gyarados to OHKO it. Dragonite are OHKOed by Blizzard and Charizard/Aerodactyl by Surf. Starmie should sweep here barring a Blizzard miss as it can one Hyper Beam from Gyarados and one from Aerodactyl while OHKOing everything.
Phanpy
Phanpy was weird to use and definitely better than expected but I think it deserves C-tier. It had several good matchup, being able to win against Falkner, Whitney, Morty and Chuck as well as having a really strong Bruno fight and it can defeat Houndoom against Karen 1v1. It really reminds me of Graveler as it really has the same winning matchup, trading Bugsy for a possible Chuck win. What distinguishes them is the encounter, training and reliability tho. Encountering Phanpy isn't easy because it's a 5% encounter rate only the morning, which is already annoying by itself but adding to that it has a flee rate of 50% and a catching rate of only 120 at the begening of the game. Getting Phanpy isn't that easy and it comes at only level 2 and requires babying and training Phanpy and Donphan wasn't an easy task. It's well-known that they have no STAB until Earthquake and are specially frail so training them really took time especially when they are in the med fast group. Another problem I had with Phanpy is inconsistency because Curlout can miss, resulting in a loss. Assuming a miss or a possible flinch from Stomp (or Attract), Miltank is going to win and Morty will most likely be a loss, just like Chuck which is isn't winnable assuming a miss on Poliwrath. That's why I feel that despite having a B-tier performance like Graveler, these flaws prevent Phanpy from being higher. Some more testings on it would be great but Curlout was nice here.
By the way, I think Silver Phanpy might be D-tier. Its Elite 4 performance was alright and being so strong against Bruno was nice. Tbh, reading Ryota’s log, it really had the same performance as Rhyon, with a bit better Bruno fight. I’ll still try to test it tho because training Donphan is awful and it will take a long time to get to level 40.
Heracross
I think it deserves D-tier. Heracross had an alright gym performance, winning against Whitney most of the time, Chuck and Pryce and doing great against Clair. However, it's not that good outside these matchup really with Morty and Jasmine being hard loss and the elite 4 is honestly below average outside of Bruno. If it was just that I'd agree with Heracross being C-tier because it has its uses but you can't overlook how hard to catch it is. If it wasn't for Ryota's images, I'd have taken some times trying to figure out how to get it because it's not that easy to find the right tree and you need the right number to encounter it before Whitney. Catching it wasn't easy too due to the 10% flee rate and 45 catch rate. And being in the slow growth rate is annoying because it takes away lots of experience from the team (but at least unlike Phanpy it's incredible at sweeping route being strong, bulky and fast). For these reasons, I believe Heracross should be in D-tier and I feel that C-tier overlooks how hard catching it and how much slow growth rate is annoying.
Aipom
Aipom is C-tier. It was alright most of the time, being able to take out at least a mon, except for Jasmine and Pryce. Where it was quite good is for Clair as it has great chances to beat the 3 Dragonair which is always great. The Elite 4 was mostly bad and Aipom could only hope to take down 1 to 2 mons. The reason I feel that it should be C-tier and not D-tier are that it’s an early encounter, easy to get and in the fast growth rate. This really helped when I was using both Heracross and Starmie. It’s not the best mon to use as it can’t sweep by itself but it still helps, especially against Clair where it was really helpful. The combination of these factors make Aipom fine in C-tier imo.
Starmie
Starmie is B-tier. It’s pretty straightforward, honestly, sweeping with ease Morty, Chuck, Jasmine, Pryce and Lance while having a great Elite 4 performance. Performance wise, it’s A-tier for sure, I wouldn’t call it S-tier because it’s not available for the first 3 gyms, doesn’t win against Clair and most Elite 4 members outside of Will and has to rely on Blizzard. What prevents it from being A-tier tho is the investment required. Starmie needs 3 TMs, which are all annoying to get as well as the DST Trick. The DST Trick is mostly alright after beating Whitney but still takes time. Rain Dance is an important back track that is time consuming and Blizzard/Thunder are expensive. Starmie can still win gyms 5-7 without Thunder thanks to Rain Dance, Surf and Recover but it’s going to be long. Adding to that the slow growth rate is going to take away a lot of experience. That’s why I think B-tier is better due to needing 2 back track (for Water Stone and Rain Dance), 2 expensive TMs, having to rely on Blizzard and slow growth rate. Still, it was really fun to use and I’d advice trying it, sweeping Lance was great.
Next run is going to be : Jigglypuff (expect D-tier), Onix (no trade) (expect C/D-tier), Ekans (expect D-tier), Sandshrew (expect C-tier) and Kadabra (expect S-tier) in Gold.
Hi y'all, I was thinking about commenting for a long time but I figured I'd first finish the run I had stopped playing from the previous thread (basically because I was very unhappy with my team's levels at Clair and felt I had screwed it up).
Even though at first I disliked that the list was started fresh and felt it neglected the contributions we'd made, I do agree that it had some inflation problems that this one attempts to fix. With that in mind, I'd like to link to my previous run to update my noms. I won't be talking about [BAN ME PLEASE] because, well, I don't wanna go down that road. Feel free to compare my run to other ones, though. I'm obviously ignoring the X items used since they're banned here—although they wouldn't change my noms anyway.
Poliwrath (C) is fine in B. It's essentially a discount Totodile that struggles against the first three gyms, has a solid midgame with great Morty and Jasmine performances and exchanges a worse (awful) Will for a better Karen in the E4. Its biggest problem is its low Speed since it means it'll struggle to get more than one kill against Lance without healing (Hypnosis can somewhat make up for it but you have to hit), its most salient point being its ability to live two Outrages from the lv. 50 Dragonite. The reasons for going with B instead of C are its Morty and Karen performances, Medium Slow leveling and access to all Water TMs. Pro tip: if you don't wanna go through its awful pre-Surf period you can catch it at level 20 with a Good Rod in Violet City (not a big detour). You can delay evolving it until after Morty since Poliwhirl outspeeds one more mon and gets the same ranges.
Bellsprout (C) should be C. Three words (or an acronym and two words I guess?): STAB Sludge Bomb. It's the strongest user of the move available and it's what differentiates it from other Grass-types. Bellsprout starts bad since it can't train in the Tower so it's better to catch it post Falkner and train around the Union Cave. Bugsy and Morty are obviously dreadful, Whitney is doable but not very efficient. Bellsprout's biggest draw is being one of the best [BAN ME PLEASE] partners for the Azalea rival since your options are few (you'll still need to put Croconaw to sleep, that thing is borked). Once you get Sludge Bomb the world is brighter. Chuck, Clair, and Bruno are excellent matchups, Pryce is solid even though it's not a clean sweep, Jasmine is bad, Will and Koga are awful, and Karen is good. Yes it sometimes needs to use Sleep Powder which is unreliable but then again it's less reliable to not have it. Sludge Bomb being able to 2HKO Clair's Kingdra, Bruno's Machamp and Karen's Umbreon with poison is just great. The sad thing is lacking a better Grass-type move than Vine Whip since it only 3HKOs Pryce's Piloswine and Will's Slowbro, but at the same time the E4 is horrible for all Grass-types (3/5ths resist the type, plus four of Lance's mons) so Bel's distinction IMO makes it the best one. It's only fair that it shares rank with Chikorita, even though they play out differently (it has better Clair, Bruno, and Karen matchups in exchange for worse Jasmine, Pryce, and Will). I'm interested to see how Vileplume will do since it exchanges a stronger STAB and speed for higher bulk.
Pidgey should be C with a chance of B. It starts well against Falkner and Bugsy but falls off badly at Whitney, having average Morty and Chuck matchups and awful Jasmine and Pryce. After evolution it can beat Clair's Kingdra one-on-one which is nice, but its biggest selling point is its E4 performance. Against Will you can beat three mons, possibly four depending on choice of moves, against Koga it can beat the non-Forretress since Return 2HKOs Muk and Crobat if it hits, and it beats all of Bruno's Fighting-types, including 2HKOing Machamp and living Rock Slide even after two Quick Attacks. Karen was more iffy since Gengar was only 3HKOed by Wing Attack meaning Curse and D-Bond were threats, Umbreon was 3HKOed (alongside OHKOing Murkrow and 2HKOing Vileplume) but Houndoom outsped and 2HKOed. Against Lance it could beat Gyarados and possibly the lv. 50 Dragonite if it derped and used Safeguard but otherwise it 2HKOed. This sounds like perfect C, however what makes me consider B is that I read other runs where Pidgeot outsped and 2HKOed Houndoom and Charizard, if that's more likely than being slower (which is possible since my Pidgeot had 91 Speed, whereas in my current run Magmar had 99 at the same level and they have similar base stat) then those performances become much better. Also even though its midgame is clearly worse than Fearow's I'm not sure it's two-tiers worse, but that's more debatable. Anyway, I recommend using Pidgeot.
Raikou is fine at C. Getting Spark with one Rare Candy is great and ThunderDance is very strong (allowing it to do stuff like beating Houndoom one-on-one, for example), however it's really frail physically and it falls short of a performance redeeming of the annoyance which is to find it/catch it pre-Master Ball (it's up to you to decide if beating Kingdra is worth it). It does relatively well against Lance since it can defeat the three non-Dragonite and only Aero outspeeds but, again, physical moves hurt.
Now onto my run. I used Chikorita, Geodude (no trade), Mankey, Magmar, and Chinchou in Gold. The idea was to train Geodude against NPC until Whitney and then grind in the wild so the others would get more experience, however it turns out two Medium Fast and one Slow mon need A LOT of experience. Even facing optional trainers wasn't enough to get better levels for Clair (however from other testers I gather they didn't do very differently). That was remedied in Victory Road since I didn't want to ruin their performances. Also I decided to catch Ho-Oh because why not, no training required.
WARNING: This is a lot of text, apologies in advance.
Falkner (level 13): Razor Leaf and Tackle both 3HKO Pidgey and 5HKO Pidgeotto, it outspeeds both. Pidgeotto's Gust does 6-7/39 damage with Reflect so if you use it the turn before KOing Pidgey you can win reliably even without crits, they never use Mud-Slap.
Bugsy (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Metapod, guaranteed with a crit. Kakuna is 5HKOed by Tackle after a Harden and has Poison Sting so best to avoid. Even with Reflect and Poisonpowder you're just prolonging the inevitable since Scyther's Fury Cutter will end up KOing you before you can do much back. Bad matchup as expected.
Azalea Town Rival (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Gastly, guaranteed with a crit. Zubat is 4HKOed by Tackle (note that Bayleef doesn't learn Swift) and does 5 damage back with Leech Life. Razor Leaf is around a 6HKO on Quilava while its Ember does 18-19/56, so very close to a 3HKO. Mediocre matchup.
Whitney (level 21 - 22): Headbutt and Razor Leaf both 3HKO Clefairy. Miltank is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf so if you set up Reflect before beating Clefairy you can defeat it. A Gold Berry ensures this, but note that it might not 4HKO Tank without Miracle Seed (PoisonPowder can help). Also depending on the damage from Clefairy it can sometimes not activate right before Reflect ends, which is very troll. Note that my Bayleef is female (I literally realized in this fight) so that helps, obviously.
Clefairy's Metronome once called Fire Spin and then Roar and another time OHKOed my Bayleef from near full health with Present, lmao.
Burned Tower Rival (level 24): Haunter outspeeds and Curses, Razor Leaf barely 4HKOs from full so it can sometimes live two, best to avoid. Zubat is 2HKOed by Headbutt. Magnemite might live three Razor Leafs but doesn't do much back besides annoying you. Tried Mud-Slap for the heck of it, it 2HKOs so not very useful. Quilava is outsped and barely not 3HKOed while Ember also fails to 3HKO from full, however Quick Attack will finish you off. You win 1-on-1 if you flinch, basically.
Morty (level 25): Miracle Seed Razor Leaf 3HKOs Gastly so I think we know where this is going. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs so it dies after Curse. The first Haunter is 3HKOed and can put you to sleep or Curse. Gengar is faster and is like a 6HKO so no point. The second Haunter outspeeds and barely doesn't 3HKO with Night Shade from full (Bayleef has 75 HP) while being 4HKOed back.
Chuck (level 29): Razor Leaf only 4HKOs Primeape but Headbutt 3HKOs reliably. Return is also a 3HKO. Razor Leaf also 3HKOs Poliwrath, who you outspeed and can use Reflect to minimize DynamicPunch's damage. As always, Mint Berry helps in case he puts you to sleep or Bitter Berry to not get screwed over by confusion.
Jasmine (level 30): Razor Leaf is like a 5HKO on Magnemite, pointless. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs and you get para'd. Steelix is around a 5HKO with Razor Leaf and can proc Hyper Potion, also Iron Tail stings without Reflect. Poor matchup.
(level 32): I'm dumb and saved over every single file so I had to sac all my team to Steelix so I could try facing Pryce first. Don't be like me, kids. Razor Leaf now 3HKOs the Magnemite but they still annoy with para. Mud-Slap 2HKOs and can make it miss T-Wave. Steelix is very close to a 3HKO with Razor Leaf so you can potentially beat it with Reflect (since Iron Tail does about a fifth), however an untimely crit can proc Hyper Potion and screw you over. Two consecutive crits kill, obviously, and Mud-Slap can help clinch the KO and avoid Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup all-in-all but winnable.
Pryce (level 31): Seel is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf and can Icy Wind which makes you slower than Dewgong so you should switch out. Dewgong's own Icy Wind + Aurora Beam almost 2HKOs (left me in red and would've killed if Seel had Aurora Beam'd) while Razor Leaf 3HKOs, you can win if you get the para from Body Slam. If you're at full it spams Aurora Beam which 3HKOs so you beat it. Piloswine outspeeds you at -1 and finishes you off. If you're at full you 2HKO while living a Blizzard with 20/92 HP, however it seems to like to Icy Wind which can kill you after the drop. You can beat Seel and one of the other two without healing, not a very good matchup.
(level 32): You still don't OHKO Seel (maybe I have bad DVs? I dunno) but you do 2HKO Dewgong and you can actually live Piloswine's Blizzard from 60/107 HP—albeit with one 1 HP left. Possible sweep without healing, much moreso considering Blizzard will often miss.
Underground Rival (level 32 - 33): Golbat is 3HKOed by Body Slam and confuses, Bitter Berry helps. For some reason it used Leech Life, Wing Attack appears to be a roll to 3HKO (it did 35/107). Quilava and Meganium 3HKO each other with Flame Wheel and Body Slam, you win if you don't get burned since you're faster and can para. You only 3HKO Magnemite with Razor Leaf so it T-Waves you, Mud-Slap 2HKOs. Haunter outspeeds if you're para'd and can Curse while Razor Leaf is only a 3HKO, Mud-Slap doesn't even do that. Sneasel is faster and Screeches but you 2HKO, you win if you're healthy. Basically it struggles to beat both Golbat and Quilava and if it does it'll be too weak to beat Sneasel or Haunter, can beat Magnemite with Mud-Slap. Three mons at best, bad MU.
Clair (level 36 - 37): Body Slam 3HKOs the Dragonair while they can only 5HKO with DragonBreath, however paralysis is annoying. Return is slightly stronger but not even with Pink Bow does it 2HKO. Against Kingdra it's actually a tough matchup, Body Slam and Razor Leaf are only 5HKOs so it'll proc Hyper Potion. At least Reflect means Hyper Beam will barely touch you but DragonBreath can eventually beat you (it's a 4HKO from full). Both Body Slam para or PoisonPowder poison are both helpful since they can't be healed.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Body Slam 2HKOs Sneasel which Screeches and 3HKOs Golbat which does 41/130 with Wing Attack normally, so if you're at -2 you can set up a Reflect on its face and still beat it (it also aids against confusion). Typhlosion appears to be 3/4HKOed but finishes you off (Flame Wheel does 57-66 damage). If you're at full fsr it starts spamming Smokescreen. Magneton seems to be a 5HKO with Razor Leaf, crits can help but you will get para'd. Haunter is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf (2HKOed after Curse) and Kadabra appears to live a Body Slam with a sliver of health but doesn't do anything back. Return helps ensure the 3HKO against Typhlosion and the OHKO against Kadabra but the rest is the same. With Earthquake you 2HKO Typhlosion (you're faster but if you're weakened it can pick you off with Quick Attack) and OHKO Magneton, Haunter, and Kadabra. Meganium outspeeds everything. Very solid matchup with EQ since you KO up to five mons (choose between Typh and Golbat), average otherwise.
Will (level 41): Body Slam 3HKOs Xatu nº 1 which Confuse Rays. Psychic does around 43/137 so Meganium can live three. You can also Light Screen up to take pitiful damage but be careful of SpDef drops. PB Return is a roll to 2HKO. Jynx is 2HKOed and can put you to sleep. Exeggutor seems to be a 5HKO and Reflects so it's unlikely you can beat it. PB Return is close to 3HKOing so you might win 1v1 since Psychic is also a 3HKO but you have Light Screen. Slowbro is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf (3HKOed after Amnesia) and Xatu is 3HKOed. If using SunnyBeam, Slowbro is 2HKOed through Amnesia and so is Jynx. If Jynx doesn't put you to sleep you can get up to four kills but it's gonna be a long fight. Meganium outspeeds everything. Average matchup.
Koga (level 41): Ohh boy. PB Body Slam 3HKOs Ariados and Venomoth and appears to be a 4HKO on Muk before Acid Armor, best to avoid. Can't touch Forretress. Body Slam appears to 4HKO Crobat but it procs healing and Double-Team is annoying. Neither PB Return nor Earthquake seem to 2HKO Ariados, it lives with a sliver of health. Venomoth seems to be a positive roll. Return only 4HKOs Muk but EQ 2HKOs (with Soft Sand it's a roll to 2HKO after Acid Armor), Sludge Bomb 2HKOs back if it uses it. Crobat appears to live three PB Returns and 3HKOs with Wing Attack, even with Reflect up it's a loss since it heals and has DT. Even with Soft Sand EQ can't do anything to Forretress. Meganium outspeeds everything but Crobat. Bad matchup as expected, the only thing you can 2HKO is Muk with EQ so even if you can get three KOs it's not worth it.
Bruno (level 41 - 42): Pink Bow Body Slam 3HKOs Hitmontop which does nothing with Quick Attack, 3HKOs Hitmonchan which can weaken you with Fire Punch and 2HKOs Hitmonlee, living all their hits in low yellow. Machamp seems to be a 6HKO (not counting healing) and Cross Chop is a roll to 2HKO from full, you can Reflect up but it'll crit you eventually. Razor Leaf obviously KOs Onix. Return doesn't make any matchup better outside of 4HKOing Machamp but it'll proc Max Potion so it's the same, really. Its only chance at sweeping is if Lee Swaggers (you need to avoid Chan because otherwise it'll attack) while you're holding a Bitter Berry and using Return, which can then 2HKO Machamp. SunnyBeam 2HKOs all Hitmons and seems to be a bad roll to 2HKO Machamp with MiracleSeed, unfortunately you'll get too weakened even if you set up both screens. Average matchup since you're generally beating everything but Champ and lose the 1v1 even with Reflect, however being able to minisweep with the Swagger boost is fun. Also it can always support its team with screens.
Karen (level 42): PB Return 4HKOs Umbreon on a roll which debuffs you with Sand-Attack and confuses. Vileplume is 3HKOed and can para and heal. Houndoom outspeeds and Flamethrower leaves you in red, Return only 3HKOs back. Earthquake is a 2HKO (also KOs Gengar after Curse) but unless you've set up Light Screen before (and are healthy!) it's a loss. Return 2HKOs Murkrow, Faint Attack does 31/140. MiracleSeed SunnyBeam 3HKOs Umbreon for what it's worth, while generally 2HKOing Murkrow. Gengar is only 3HKOed so Curse will still ruin you. Can beat three mons but it'll struggle against both Umbreon and Vileplume and needs EQ for Gengar, so bad matchup. Btw I simply took off Razor Leaf because what was the point. Gengar and Houndoom outspeed.
Lance (level 42): Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados on a roll which does less than 40% with Hyper Beam after setting up rain. If you use SunnyBeam (not on the first turn) you still only 3HKO. The Blizzard Dnite comes in, Return appears to be a 5HKO and it does 105/140 if it hits, no point in trying to set up Light Screen. Aerodactyl's Wing Attack does exactly 70 damage so it 2HKOs and Razor Leaf is only a 4HKO back (SunnyBeam 2HKOs but only chance to set up is if you lure the Hyper Beam, and even then you'll likely die). Thunder Dragonite is a bit better than its sibling since it can only threaten you with Hyper Beam and you have Reflect, although para and only 5HKOing is bad. Charizard almost OHKOs and appears to be a 3HKO, can't say for certain. Lv. 50 Dragonite does 45% with Outrage while you 5HKO. You can possibly do well with Light Screen since it'll get confused but since it'll proc healing I doubt you can beat it. Only Aero and Charizard outspeed but since it's at most KOing Gyara and the Thunder Nite (and that's a stretch imo) it's a bad matchup.
Falkner (level 11 - 12): Rock Throw OHKOs Pidgey if it hits, Pidgeotto can live in red at level 11. Mud-Slap from Pidgey does 3 damage and Pidgeotto's does 5 (3 after a Defense Curl) so you can lose even with a Berry if you miss too much.
Bugsy (level 18 - 19): Hit three Rock Throws = GG. Metapod can sometimes live after a Harden but other than that it's three KOs, nothing new here.
Azalea Town Rival (level 19): Hard Stone Rock Throw OHKOs every one of Silver's mons. Any order of Magnitude will OHKO Gastly and 7 and above will defeat Quilava, so the only thing of worry is Zubat's Bite flinching (particularly if you got para'd) or a burn from Quilava, which does 7/48 with Ember. Excellent matchup.
Whitney (level 21 - 22): Fought as few trainers as possible so as to not overlevel while getting the Rollout TM. You 2HKO Clefairy with Rock Throw. Miltank's Stomp stings so you might want to get a Defense Curl before. Needs Magnitude 7 or higher to 3HKO the cow. With CurlOut, you 2HKO Clef and OHKO Miltank on the third hit if you don't get flinched. Be careful of Metronome, otherwise this is a solid matchup.
Interestingly, even though Geodude was male Miltank only used Attract when I had a Reflect up, not with a Defense Curl.
Burned Tower Rival (level 22): Haunter Curses so any order of Magnitude KOs. Zubat dies to Rock Throw and Magnemite to Magnitude, both outspeed and can confuse so watch out. Quilava can live a Rock Throw or Magnitudes lower than 7, however it only threatens you with burns.
Morty (level 24 - 25): Tried it as Geodude first. Gastly outspeeds and Curses before dying. Haunter can Hypnosis or Night Shade and drops to a Magnitude 6 or higher. Gengar for some reason prefers Mean Look over Shadow Ball and is OHKOed by Magnitude 7 or higher. If you still have the Mint Berry intact you can KO no problem. The second Haunter also dies to Magnitude 6. Good matchup even before evolving.
(level 25): You're still slower than Gastly which Curses. Haunter nº 1 now drops to Magnitude 5 too. Then for some reason comes Haunte nº 2, which can live a Magnitude 5 and Night Shade. Even after taking two Night Shades (and being at 19 HP) Gengar doesn't Shadow Ball, apparently it only does when it's super effective. It still lives the Magnitude 6 so the only difference with Geodude is the first Haunter.
Chuck (level 29): Two Magnitudes 7 or higher 2HKO Primeape who likes to Leer or Rage, Karate Chop 3HKOs. Lol Poliwrath.
(level 29): Magnitude obviously KOs the Mags, Supersonic is annoying tho so you might want to give it a Bitter Berry. Steelix is outsped and 4HKOed by Magnitude 7 (3HKO with 8) and Iron Tail OHKOs back, bad matchup I'd say. At least you outspeed the steel snake.
Pryce (level 29): Seel is a speedtie, you need Magnitude 9 to OHKO it so you're most likely getting hit. Piloswine comes in and outspeeds and OHKOs with Blizzard, you don't even 2HKO back. Against Dewgong they 2HKO each other but it wins because it's faster.
Underground Rival (level 29 - 30): Just for the hell of it. Rock Throw only 2HKOs Golbat and Bite stings, doing about a quarter. Magnemite's SonicBoom also does around a quarter. Sneasel's Faint Attack also does around a quarter so it can KO you if it hits it twice, Rock Throw doesn't OHKO. You barely live Quilava's Flame Wheel after all that damage and KO with Magnitude 7. With Rollout (and Bitter Berry) you 2HKO Golbat, then OHKO Sneasel, then OHKO Magnemite (level up here), then OHKO Haunter which Mean Looks fsr. Quilava's Flame Wheel is a roll to KO at that point and dies to Magnitude. Being slower than even Magnemite is annoying when you're hitting everything for super effective damage.
Clair (level 33): Lol no. Didn't try it against the Tbolt Dragonair but even at a higher level it'll take a lot from Twister—also it's hard to know if it's Tbolt or not when it comes in).
Victory Road Rival (level 39 - 40): Rock Throw OHKOs Sneasel which likes to Fury Cutter. Strength KOs Kadabra as it Future Sights which will do 42/107. Magnitude KOs Haunter which might Curse you, in which case you need an order of 8 or higher to OHKO Typhlosion (or use Earthquake), Flame Wheel does 24 damage back. Magneton Sonicbooms and dies. Golbat lives a Rock Throw and either confuses or Bites you for 19 damage. Everything outspeeds you so it's hard to sweep without luck, but still a solid matchup.
Will (level 41): Xatu's Psychic 2HKOs while Rock Throw 2HKOs back, you need it to use Confuse Ray and hold a Berry to win. Avoid Exeggutor. Slowbro is 3HKOed by Earthquake but finishes you off with Psychic. If you're at full it likes to set up so you can win that exchange. Jynx OHKOs with Ice Punch. Xatu n° 2 is like n° 1. You only outspeed Slowbro and are unlikely to beat more than one mon, but if you defeated the first Xatu without taking damage you can potentially beat Slowbro too (and you can always boom if you're into that). Bad matchup of course.
Koga (level 41): Rock Throw 2HKOs Ariados which leaves you in red with Giga Drain but generally Double-Teams. Earthquake 3HKOs Forretress which is cool, it's a speedtie tho so it can do over half with boom. Hard Stone Rock Throw 2HKOs Crobat and doesn't always proc healing, evasion is annoying of course. Without Hard Stone it's a favorable roll. Needs Soft Sand to OHKO Muk with Earthquake, it's faster so it can Minimize or Acid Armor on you. Venomoth is 2HKOed but between confusion and Psychic doing 42/110 it can win so might wanna avoid. Great matchup I'd say, only outspeeding Ariados and Forretress is annoying but luckily Muk and Crobat can barely harm you so you should get four kills easily.
Bruno (level 41): OHKOs Hitmontop with Earthquake as it Digs. It can live a Hi Jump Kick in low yellow, Soft Sand EQ appears to be a good roll to OHKO. For some reason Lee uses Foresight sometimes? So if that happens you can beat it unharmed. Graveler also lives two Ice Punches from Hitmonchan at full. Onix doesn't EQ if you're healthy and instead Binds, it does live an EQ of your own at full tho (at 42 it's still not guaranteed). Its own does a bit less than half. Machamp outspeeds and OHKOS. Will generally only beat two mons, might be three if Lee screws up (you can use a Bitter Berry for Swagger). Bad matchup obviously since you're slower than everything, but could be worse.
Karen (level 41): Earthquake 3HKOs Umbreon which outspeeds. Vileplume OHKOs with Petal Dance, avoid. Gengar is OHKOed but it always used Curse. Houndoom leaves you in red and is OHKOed. Hard Stone Rock Throw is a roll to OHKO (guaranteed at level 42), Faint Attack does 46/110. You're generally only gonna be beating two (Gengar + one of Murkrow or Houndoom), however when you're at full the AI fsr uses Roar/Whirlwind so there's a chance you beat three. Meh matchup although 1v1ing Houndoom is always cool.
Lance (level 41): Avoid Gyarados. Aero is 2HKOed by Rock Throw and Hyper Beam does 25/110, so less than a quarter. If it AncientPowers first and then HB you'll have taken 40 damage from that exchange, great as long as you don't miss. Avoid Blizzard Dnite. Charizard's Flamethrower does 50/110 and you OHKO back, meaning you can very well beat both it and Aero without healing. Thunder Dnite 3HKOs with Twister and is 3HKOed back. Lv. 50 Dragonite is also 3HKOed but Outrage is almost an OHKO. You'll only beat Aero and Charizard so it's far from a great matchup but it's still better than most can say (also it funnily goes well with elemental punches Primeape). I honestly expected Charizard's Flamethrower to do more, I'm disappointed.
If you use Rollout against Aerodactyl you still 2HKO, then the Blizzard Dragonite comes in. If it misses it's a roll to KO (achieved at level 42), then sometimes the Thunder Dnite will switch in and you can tank a Twister and KO it with enough health to survive a Flamethrower from Charizard. Even if it requires a lot of luck, being able to KO four mons is impressive
Burned Tower Rival (level 22): Can't touch Haunter without Dig, it outspeeds and generally Licks while you 2HKO (OHKO after Curse). Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed by Headbutt. Quilava outspeeds and does a lot with Ember while being 2HKOed back with Dig (anything else fails to). I was left in red after all the damage. Magnemite is KOed with Karate Chop, it might live with 1 HP if you're at level 22.
Morty (level 25 - 26): Dig OHKOs Gastly and the first Haunter which is a speedtie. Gengar outspeeds and might Mean Look or Hypnosis, a Mint Berry helps since he has to hit it twice as you 2HKO. After leveling up you OHKO the second Haunter, at 25 you're outsped and it lives so it can Night Shade. Dig is obviously required to actually hurt the Ghosts but solid matchup, I'd say.
Chuck (level 29): You 2HKO opposing Primeape with BlackBelt Karate Chop. Poliwrath seems to be a 4HKO and can put you to sleep or 2HKO with DynamicPunch (you barely live at -1) so you need a lot of luck to win. Since Return is still weak I tried Pink Bow Strength and it's also a 4HKO so same deal.
Jasmine (level 29): Karate Chop OHKOs both Magnemite, however it only 5HKOs Steelix which brings you to low yellow with Iron Tail. Black Belt DynamicPunch isn't quite a 2HKO but it becomes one after a self-hit, obviously you need to be very lucky. I also tried Fire Punch, it's a 3HKO so it procs Hyper Potion but it can burn to soften up the Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup, KOing the Magnemite isn't that great.
Pryce (level 30): Any physical move 2HKOs Seel, Headbutt is best because of flinch. Karate Chop puts Dewgong in low yellow/red health while Aurora Beam does 20/90 damage, doesn't even 2HKO with crits lol. Piloswine is 2HKOed, sometimes it procs Hyper Potion and sometimes it doesn't. For some reason it spams Mist, but even if it Blizzards it only does 40 damage. Fantastic matchup. DynamicPunch obviously OHKOs everything but I'd rather try to crit Karate Chop thrice than use it.
Underground Rival (level 31 - 32): Headbutt 3HKOs Golbat which 2HKOs with Wing Attack but generally uses Confuse Ray first (Bitter Berry can help). Strength is still a 3HKO. Haunter is OHKOed on a roll by Dig after leveling up (at 31 it barely lives), you can't touch it otherwise. Karate Chop is barely not a 2HKO on Quilava but it + Dig is. Flame Wheel does 27/97, so over a quarter. BlackBelt DynamicPunch still doesn't OHKO. Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed, Sneasel's Quick Attack can put you in red after a Wing Attack and a Flame Wheel. Good matchup outside of Golbat.
Clair (level 36): Seismic Toss and Karate Chop 3HKO Dragonair which T-Waves back. Strength comes close to 2HKO but needs Pink Bow, Return is weaker. BlackBelt DynamicPunch leaves it in red so it can die to confusion. Kingdra is 4HKOed by Seismic Toss or Karate Chop and 2HKOs back with Surf. DynamicPunch just barely 2HKOs. If you connect all 5 D-Punches you can actually sweep, but we know that's super unlikely (3,125% chance, not even counting that the Nair can live and paralize you) so I'd say this is not a good matchup but not bad either, you can at least beat a couple Nairs.
Victory Road Rival (level 39 - 40): Karate Chop OHKOes Sneasel. Pink Bow Strength appears to be an unfavorable roll to 2HKO Golbat, I always left it in red. Golbat generally uses Confuse Ray while Wing Attack does 55/117, so a bit less than half. PB Return improves the odds. Strength OHKOs Kadabra and Dig OHKOs Haunter (and you avoid Curse) and 2HKOs Typhlosion after leveling up while it does 36 damage with Flame Wheel. At 39 it's a roll to 2HKO but since you're 3HKOed you win if you're healthy. Karate Chop doesn't OHKO Magneton so you need to Dig again. Primeape outspeeds everything. Solid matchup with Dig, only iffy one is Golbat due to confusion.
Will (level 41): Pink Bow Return 2HKOs (might be a roll) Xatu nº 1 and it likes to Confuse Ray. Psychic leaves Primeape in red and then Quick Attack finishes it off. You need either a crit Karate Chop or to hit DynamicPunch to KO Jynx which OHKOs back. You also need to break through confusion if you don't have Bitter Berry. Exeggutor seems to be a 3HKO (it KOs back), Slowbro a 4HKO but it spams Curse and Xatu nº 2 a 3HKO. ThunderPunch is a 3HKO on Slowbro so you can beat it as it Curses and NMI Ice Punch seems to 2HKO Exeggutor but it destroys you. You can live a Psychic from anything but Jynx and Exeggutor, if you're lucky you can get two kills, maybe three with ThunderPunch. Primeape outspeeds everything. Awful matchup.
Koga level 41): PB Return only 3HKOs Ariados, same as Seismic Toss funnily. It could be a bad roll to 2HKO but since Ariados likes to Giga Drain I never got it. It's a 2HKO on Venomoth luckily, most of the time. Veno spams Toxic generally but Psychic is a 2HKO. Crobat seems to be a 4HKO but between DT, Wing Attack 2HKOing and healing there's no point. Forretress sadly lives three Seismic Tosses at level 41 with 1 HP so you need a Rare Candy to beat it. Swift doesn't hurt you really but you risk the boom. PB Return 3HKOs Muk and it generally doesn't Acid Armor, choosing to Minimize first and either Toxic or 2HKO with Sludge Bomb (it does around 60/123 so it's a roll from full), so if you hit the Returns you can win. Charcoal Fire Punch 2HKOs Ariados, is a bad roll to 2HKO Venomoth and OHKOs Forretress, Ice Punch 3HKOs Crobat but it beats you anyway. Pink Bow appears to be necessary to 3HKO Muk (you can technically Dig the first time but the more turns you waste the higher the odds of Acid Armor), since Forry likes to Spike I'd say PB is the better item. Primeape outspeeds everything but Crobat. Not exactly a solid matchup but you can beat up to four mons with Fire Punch.
Bruno (level 41): Return 3HKOs Hitmontop, you can beat it unscathed if you Dig on its Dig. Hitmonlee is 2HKOed but does over half with Hi Jump Kick. Hitmonchan lives two PB Returns on a roll and can beat you with Mach Punch after you've been weakened. It can also live a Return after Swagger. Seismic Toss 3HKOs all Hitmon. Machamp is a loss even from full since you only 4HKO and Cross Chop 2HKOs you. Karate Chop doesn't quite 2HKO Onix. With Black Belt DynamicPunch you put Hitmontop in low yellow, OHKO Lee, leave Chan in red (so it's a 50% chance that you'll only be hit with one Mach Punch) and does just over half to Machamp. If you hit all five you win a fridge. Average matchup I'd say, it takes too much damage from Lee + Chan so it's hard to beat more than three. Nothing outspeeds Primeape.
Karen (level 41 - 42): Black Belt Karate Chop 3HKOs Umbreon which Sand-Attacks and confuses, you can 2HKO with a crit so nb. Return 3HKOs Vileplume which paras and does about 45% with Petal Dance, avoid. Dig 2HKOs Gengar or OHKOs after Curse, you're slower tho so be careful of Destiny Bond (it mostly Cursed so I never saw it). Both Karate Chop and Return 2HKO Murkrow which does nothing with Faint Attack. BB Karate Chop leaves Houndoom in low yellow/red which does a ton with Flamethrower and is also faster. Since it procs Max Potion you have higher chances to crit but that's about it. DynamicPunch almost OHKOs Umbreon, leaving it in red. Ice Punch 3HKOs Vileplume and 2HKOs Murkrow, same as Return. DynamicPunch OHKOs Murkrow and Houndoom. Clearly can't sweep without healing and it's best to avoid both Vileplume and Gengar, however only needing to hit two DynamicPunches to beat the toughest mons (or one and critting Karate Chop, but that's less likely) means the matchup is positive. It's annoying that you don't outspeed Houndoom at level 42, however.
Lance (level 42): Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados which does 65% back with Hyper Beam after setting up rain. Aerodactyl then picks you off. ThunderPunch 2HKOs Gyara so you can beat it unscathed, unfortunately it only 3HKOs Aero which outspeeds and 2HKOs with Wing Attack. Avoid. Ice Punch 2HKOs lv. 47 Dragonite which T-Wave and then Hyper Beam, putting you in red/low yellow. Charizard outspeeds and 2HKOs while being 3HKOed, much like Aero. Lv. 50 Dragonite is 2HKOed (!) and likes to go for Safeguard, you can barely live a Hyper Beam so you win at full. If you run PrzcureBerry you can actually KO up to three mons including the boss, which is pretty remarkable considering it's a Primeape. I'll call this a positive matchup as long as you use the elemental punches. Color me impressed, Koko.
Burned Tower Rival (level 21): Surf is a roll to 2HKO Haunter so you might kill after Curse, you might not. Magnemite is outsped and 2HKOed, still might want to switch out to avoid Curse damage. Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed, watch out for confusion. Quilava outspeeds and can't do much while being 2HKOed back. Basically Surf 2HKOs everything except Haunter sometimes.
Morty (level 24): Gastly drops to Surf, Haunter is faster and can Curse or Hypnosis as you 2HKO. Gengar is barely 3HKOed so you need it to miss a couple of Hypnosis, you can always T-Wave it first. Doable but needs luck. The second Haunter is 2HKOed while Chinchou lives three Night Shades from full. Positive matchup since it can definitely beat the three non-Gengar.
Chuck (level 29): Surf 2HKOs, while Magnet Spark + Surf comes very close to so you might be able to outspeed the second turn and KO. If it uses Leer you should switch out because DynamicPunch will sting (it does around 50/114 otherwise). You outspeed Wrath and it barely lives two Magnet Sparks so you might as well use a Mint Berry for sleep. Good matchup, I'd say.
Jasmine (level 29 - 30): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf, however Steelix uses Sunny Day and can proc Hyper Potion so it becomes a 3HKO. Rock Throw does 20/118 back, so 1/6. Best way to do it is setting up rain on the first Mag and then OHKOing everything, a paralysis berry is recommended. Great matchup outside of parahax.
Pryce (level 30 - 31): Seel lives the Magnet Spark (I'm starting to see a trend here), then Piloswine comes and tanks the Surf but doesn't do much back with Fury Attack, you'll need to hit it thrice because of Hyper Potion. It's a roll with MysticWater. Dewgong does even less than against Magmar and is 2HKOed after leveling up, otherwise it's a 3HKO. I finished in high green, excellent matchup.
Underground Rival
(level 32 - 33): Sadly I couldn't get the Thunder TM because the casino is blocked. Golbat outspeeds and can confuse or attempt to flinch with Bite, which does 14/126 or 1/9th. Spark 2HKOs and you can outspeed after the para. Magnemite is swept away by Surf. Haunter can only Curse as it's otherwise 2HKOed. Sneasel is 3HKOed by two Sparks + Surf, it can't do much damage but you might need to switch out if you were Cursed. Quilava can't touch you and is OHKOed. It only outspeeds Magnemite but it's so fat that it's a solid matchup, only annoying things are confusion and Curse.
Clair (level 36): Surf is like a 5HKO on Dragonair, with rain it becomes a 3HKO. Apparently it's a speedtie which is annoying, they can't do much back besides para you tho. Kingdra is like 5HKOed by Magnet Spark and it'll likely proc Hyper Potion, meanwhile Hyper Beam does around 45%. DragonBreath does 40/142 so about 28.5%. With the Thunder TM you do 40% min and are able to avoid misses from Smokescreen, however DragonBreath para is annoying. Possibly the best way to beat it is by paralyzing it first turn and then setting up rain and beating it as it has to recharge from Hyper Beam (be careful of rain-boosted Surf which almost 3HKOs). Not a particularly exciting matchup but can beat the ace one-on-one.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf. Sneasel dies to Spark + Surf so you can fish for para, worst thing it can do is Screech + Quick Attack which does around 24/153, it'll generally Fury Cutter tho. Magneton can T-Wave you, Haunter Curses or Confuse Rays, Kadabra Future Sights which does actually respectable 34 damage, Typhlosion Smokescreens and Golbat Confuse Rays or Bites, meaning a lot of hax is involved so it's hard to sweep even if they can't directly hurt you. Best strategy is to set up rain and OHKO Sneasel, Magneton and Haunter and reset it against Kadabra (you'll have to switch out if Cursed) so you can KO Typhlosion and Golbat with Thunder. Lanturn only outspeeds Magneton. Positive matchup with rain, still annoying. In its best performance I finished in high yellow.
Will (level 41): Magnet Spark leaves Xatu in red, it generally confuses so Bitter Berry might be a better option. Psychic does around 55/163 so it's close to a 3HKO. With a Berry and a para from Spark you might walk out unharmed. Switch out against Exeggutor. Slowbro is 2HKOed by Spark, 3HKOed after Amnesia. Jynx is only 3HKOed by Surf and can put you to sleep so don't bother. Xatu nº 2 is essentially the same as the first one. Since Psychic 3HKOs it's hard to beat more than two, you basically need para or confusion luck. You can also use Thunder outside of rain if you want (since it's more likely to hit than Spark to para). It OHKOs both Xatu and leaves Slowbro in red (with Magnet it can OHKO). Since you only need it to hit twice I'd say it's a good alternative. Lanturn only outspeeds Slowbro and Exeggutor. Not what I'd call a good matchup but you can beat all Electric-weaks.
Koga (level 41): MW Surf 2HKOs Ariados as it uses Double Team, Forretress which Spikes and 3HKOs Venomoth which can Toxic you or confuse you (Surf + Thunder 2HKOs if you wanna risk that). Muk is only 4HKOed and can Toxic or Minimize. Spark doesn't seem to 2HKO Crobat without Magnet. Rain-boosted MW Surf fails to OHKO Ariados and Forretress (does 2HKO Venomoth and 3HKO Muk) so it might be better to use Magnet after all. Venomoth's Psychic does 38/163 and Muk's Sludge Bomb does 64/163. Without MysticWater Surf doesn't 2HKO Forretress but you can always use Surf + Thunder (also 2HKOs Venomoth). Magnet Thunder in rain 3HKOs Muk not minding Minimize and OHKOs Crobat on a roll (note that I leveled up after beating Muk, it might fail to KO otherwise), so you can potentially set up rain against Muk and beat both since they don't like to attack often. Only Crobat and Venomoth outspeed. Very good matchup since even if it can't always sweep it can beat the two big ones or one plus the other three.
Bruno (level 41 - 42): MW Surf 3HKOs Hitmontop, if you set up rain as it Digs you KO the following turn. Dig does 47-50/163, so over 25%. Hitmonlee comes in and threatens to 2HKO you with Hi Jump Kick (does 65 damage), your only way of beating it is if it doesn't use it or if you para with Thunder. Hitmonchan does 26 damage with each Mach Punch so it's hard to realistically beat all three Hitmon without healing, if you para'd Lee you can potentially live the two Machs but the damage comes dangerously close to 100%. Note that without MysticWater Surf + rain-boosted Surf becomes a bad roll. Onix is obviously OHKOed by Surf, but do note that at level 41 it appeared to be a speedtie. If it only happened to me then it might've been the DVs. Machamp is generally a no, Cross Chop 2HKOs from full and Rain-boosted Surf barely 2HKOs. There's a chance since it'll miss a CC 36% of the time, of course. I wanna say meh to bad matchup, it'll most likely beat three mons without healing and they're the easiest ones. Also Dig does a ton, like wtf.
Karen (level 41 - 42): Three Magnet Thunders in rain don't quite KO Umbreon so you need to use Surf. Avoid Vileplume. Houndoom is 2HKOed by Surf and does around 40% with Crunch. MW Surf 3HKOs Gengar so it doesn't kill after Curse, best to avoid. Murkrow appears to live a Spark so you need to use Thunder, Faint Attack does around 39/167 back. Bad matchup generally, although if it can set up rain on Murkrow it can KO it, Houndoom and Gengar after Curse. Setting up on Gengar is also possible but you'll take damage from Curse. You only outspeed Umbreon and Vileplume which you wanna avoid.
Lance (level 42): Fsr Gyarados spams Flail, Magnet Spark doesn't quite KO so you need to hit Thunder or set up your own rain. If it Hyper Beams it does 81/167, a bit less than half. Lv. 47 Dragonite paras while you 3HKO with Thunder. Its Hyper Beam does over 60%. You'll be lucky if you beat one since you need to have rain set up. Both Aero and Charizard are 2HKOed by Surf (needs Mystic Water to OHKO in rain), Magnet Thunder is a roll to OHKO Aero but not Charizard so you probably won't be beating both unless they come in a row. The strategy would be: tank a Hyper Beam from Aero that will put you at around half, set up rain and KO on the recharge turn, and then tank Charizard's HB (which does around 60 damage, so less than 40%) and KO back. You should be able to live those two attacks + Gyarados's Flail, but if Aero doesn't Hyper Beam the strategy will fail. If you can beat all three non-Dnite I'll call this a positive matchup but otherwise it's pretty meh, no Ice-type moves sucks.
Morty (level 24 - 25): Fire Punch KOs Gastly and, after leveling up, the first Haunter. Gengar is outsped (I'm 59 Speed) and 2HKOed so its only hope is to hit a Hypnosis. Mint Berry takes care of that. Haunter can live if you're not Charcoal and do some damage with Night Shade before dropping. Note that Gengar outspeeds and lives two Fire Punches if you're at level 24.
Chuck (level 29): Fire Punch 2HKOs Primeape ez pz, worst it can do is Leer. Magnet ThunderPunch appears to be a bad roll to 2HKO Poliwrath and it likes to use Mind Reader for some reason instead of Surf. DynamicPunch OHKOs at -1, other than that I call this a solid matchup since AI is bad.
Jasmine (level 30): Ember or Fire Punch OHKOs the Magnemite. Steelix lives the FP in low red and does around 50/84 with Rock Throw. Not perfect matchup since it dies to a crit but pretty solid as expected.
Pryce (level 30): ThunderPunch doesn't OHKO Seel and is a roll to 2HKO Dewgong (guaranteed with Magnet), however since you take no damage it's fine. Piloswine can live the Fire Punch if you don't have Charcoal but doesn't do anything back. Excellent matchup.
Underground Rival Golbat is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, Wing Attack does 30% back (funnily, Headbutt flinch into TPunch also 2HKOs). Haunter surprisingly lives a Fire Punch and can Curse you or waste a turn with Mean Look. Quilava is 3HKOed by Headbutt and ThunderPunch (Return is weaker but Pink Bow Strength 2HKOs) and Flame Wheel does little. Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed, Quick Attack does 1/7th. Not a perfect matchup but all-around great.
Clair (level 36): Its strongest move against Dragonair is Pink Bow Strength (Return is still weaker) and it's a roll to 2HKO, meanwhile Surf 2HKOs back. If you use Sunny Day Fire Punch is a 3HKO but it causes Nair to spam T-Wave and Slam. Then Kingdra comes in and OHKOs with Surf while you 4HKO. I guess you can use DynamicPunch if you're into that. It 2HKOs the Nair and appears to 3HKO Kingdra with a BlackBelt (clinches with confusion), however it can proc Hyper Potion so you'll run out of PP. One thing to mention is that if you set up sun before Kingdra comes in it'll prioritize Smokescreen or DragonBreath instead of just Surfing twice, however DragonBreath + Hyper Beam 2HKOs. Awful matchup as expected, can only win with hax.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Sneasel dies to Fire Punch, Golbat is 2HKOed by Thunder Punch and does 30/108 with Wing Attack, Haunter lives Fire Punch in red and can Curse or Confuse Ray, Kadabra is 2HKOed and Future Sights, Tpyhlosion seems to be a 4HKO with Thunder Punch and Magneton is obviously OHKOed. Setting up sun on Sneasel is risky because of Screech (and Magmar is already very frail physically) but sun-boosted Fire Punch leaves Golbat in red and OHKOs Haunter and Kadabra. With Return you OHKO Kadabra and 3HKO Typhlosion. Magmar outspeeds everything. It's not easy to get a full sweep but you should take out five mons (one of Typh and Golbat, as always) reliably.
Will (level 41): ThunderPunch leaves both Xatu in low red and they can confuse you, Magmar lives two Psychics from full. Exeggutor drops in one hit from Fire Punch but Jynx appears to survive it so it can put you to sleep or do half back. Flamethrower kills it obviously. Slowbro is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, 3HKO after Amnesia. Sun-boosted Fire Punch doesn't OHKO Xatu but Flamethrower does, with a Bitter Berry you can beat it unscathed. The problem is that Slowbro comes next so sun will have run out when the second Xatu comes in. You can live two Psychics from Slowbro and Xatu but then Xatu's Quick Attack finishes you off, it might spam Confuse Ray tho. Hard to sweep since Magmar is so frail but should beat four easily. You outspeed everything. Very good matchup.
Koga (level 41 - 42): Fire Punch OHKOs Ariados and Forretress. Muk seems to be a positive roll to 3HKO and it generally Minimizes so you can beat it while taking around half from Sludge Bomb (Flamethrower ensures this). ThunderPunch 2HKOs Crobat and Fire Punch OHKOs Ariados. You can generally beat Sludge Bomb + Wing Attack as long as you're not poisoned. If you set up Sunny Day on Forretress as it Protects you can easily 2HKO Muk and leave Crobat in low yellow. Only Crobat outspeeds. Excellent matchup I'd say.
Bruno (level 42 - 43): Fire Punch 3HKOs Hitmontop which does a bit less than half with Dig, if you set up sun as it's underground you KO it the following turn. Flamethrower also 2HKOs. Onix comes in and it's a good roll to OHKO with Flamethrower after leveling up. Machamp lives a hit and finishes you off so best to avoid it. If you attempt to 1v1 it you can barely live a Cross Chop from full and don't quite 2HKO with Charcoal Flamethrower. Depending on how much prior damage you've taken Hitmonlee will decide to attack you or Swagger, in which case you can 2HKO it and Hitmonchan as long as you don't get confused. Otherwise Chan's Mach Punch will KO you. Nothing outspeeds you. Meh matchup, can beat up to three mons but its Defense is too low so it isn't reliable.
Karen (level 42 - 43): Flamethrower 3HKOs Umbreon, Sun-boosted is a 2HKO. DynamicPunch is a 2HKO and if it hits itself it's almost in range of Flamethrower. Gengar is OHKOed after Curse, if it Licks it's a 2HKO or a OHKO on rolls in sun. Both ThunderPunch and Sun-boosted Flamethrower OHKO Murkrow. Magmar outspeeds Houndoom and can 3HKO with Return or OHKO with DynamicPunch, Crunch 2HKOs back. Fire Punch doesn't OHKO Vileplume, Flamethrower does. Can easily beat three mons and likely four so it's a solid matchup once again. Outspeeding Houndoom even at level 42 is particularly cool.
Lance (level 42 - 43): Magnet ThunderPunch almost OHKOs Gyarados which sets up rain. Aerodactyl almost OHKOs back with Rock Slide while being 2HKOed. Return only 4HKOs the lv. 47 Dragonite, even with a Pink Bow. Hyper Beam puts you in red. Magnet ThunderPunch 2HKOs Charizard while you tank its Hyper Beam just fine, and you outspeed even at level 42. This is basically the same performance as Typhlosion's so not much else to say, bad matchup as expected.
Clair (level 40): Shark Beak Fly almost OHKOs the Dragonair, you have Safeguard to prevent T-Wave. Surf/Tbolt do around 30/142 HP and you can Recover the damage if need be. Kingdra is 2HKOed by Fly and its Surf does around half. Excellent matchup, really its biggest issue is catching it before the Master Ball.
I didn't face the rival because I needed my HM slave.
Will (level 40): Both Sacred Fire and Fly 2HKO Xatu, you can use Safeguard to prevent confusion. Fly appears to 3HKO Slowbro but it Curses so it's best to avoid it. Fly doesn't quite KO Exeggutor but it does KO Jynx, Sacred Fire also beats both. Spell Tag Shadow Ball OHKO both Xatu and 2HKO Slowbro even after Curse. Just for the lols, sun-boosted Sacred Fire OHKOs both Xatu but Slowbro lives! a SolarBeam. Ho-Oh outspeeds everything. Excellent matchup as expected, only Slowbro is annoying if your best move for it is Fly.
Koga (level 40): Sacred Fire OHKOs Ariados and 3HKOs Muk, a burn can help turn it into a 2HKO. Sharp Beak Fly doesn't 2HKO and Minimize + Acid Armor makes it less useful. Crobat is also 2HKOed with a burn. You'll have to use Fly at a point otherwise you'll run out of PP before Forretress. Fly OHKOs Venomoth. Earthquake leaves Muk in red. Only Crobat outspeeds. Great matchup, the biggest issue is running out of Sacred Fire PP so you might want to avoid one of Crobat/Muk due to evasion.
Bruno (level 40): Sacred Fire 2HKOs Hitmontop, don't use Fly as it'll Detect. It also 2HKOs Onix so you can beat it if you burn. Chan and Lee are OHKOed by Fly but Machamp lives one and OHKOs with Rock Slide. If you burn it with Sacred Fire you can live and win even if it procs healing. Since Fly does so much. Solid matchup, can clean the three Hitmon and one of Onix or Machamp 50% of the time if you account for misses. At level 42 Fly still doesn't guarantee the KO on Champ so best strategy is to burn it.
Karen (level 40): Umbreon is 3HKOed by both Sacred Fire and Sharp Beak Fly. Gengar outspeeds and Curses, it's otherwise 2HKOed. At level 40 Murkrow lives both attacks but doesn't do much back. Houndoom outspeeds and does 37/142, so about 25%, while being 2HKOed by Fly. Vileplume appears to be a roll to OHKO. Even at level 42 you're not OHKOing Murkrow. Needs Earthquake to KO both Gengar and Houndoom (the latter is a roll), otherwise it's best to just switch out of Gengar since without Curse it can beat Houndoom 1v1. Sun-boosted Charcoal Sacred Fire 2HKOs Umbreon at level 41 but doesn't OHKO Gengar. It does KO Murkrow, tho. I'd say best course of action is switching out of Gengar since you can tank special hits easily but between Sand-Attack and Curse you won't be able to beat Houndoom, other than that this performs as a worse Magmar.
Lance (level 40): Sharp Beak Fly is a 2HKO on rolls on Gyarados which does 81/142 with rain Surf. Thunder Dragonite does 71 damage, so half. Fly is a 3HKO but remember that Thunder can hit you mid-air. Avoid. Blizzard Dnite does 83 damage with Hyper Beam. You can beat it 1v1 since you can Recover on the recharge turn and have Safeguard in case of paralysis, although it's not super reliable since Twister does double the damage mid-air. Avoid Aerodactyl. Charizard does 54 damage with Hyper Beam, Fly seems to be a roll to 2HKO. Lv. 50 Dragonite outspeeds you at level 40 but not at 41. Its Hyper Beam does around 100 damage and Outrage 58 while you 3HKO. It's a win most of the time with healing since it likes to waste turns using Safeguard. It can beat any of Gyarados/BlizzNite/Charizard/Lv. 50 Nite but it'll realistically only beat two, three at most with recover spam. I guess being able to beat the ace means it's not really a bad matchup but Fly is the opposite of efficiency and I hate how they can hit you in the air.
Chikorita is C. We all know what it does: it's a support mon first and foremost, and that makes it have a harder time sweeping than offensive threats. That's not to say its attacking stats are bad, however, the problem is its lack of powerful moves and generally bad offensive typing. Chikorita can beat Falkner, Whitney generally, Chuck, Jasmine's Steelix and Pryce as Meganium, does relatively well against Clair's Kingdra although it can lose, has an average Will and a positive Bruno (especially if you avoid Hitmonchan and get Hitmonlee to Swagger), and is bad against Bugsy, Morty, most rival fights, Koga, Karen, and Lance. As stated in the Bellsprout paragraph, even though they're very different their performances are similar at the end of the day so they belong in the same tier.
Graveler is B. Geodude is probably the best Pokémon for the first four gyms, especially when paired with Chikorita since it covers the rival so well. It then has a dip in performance that makes it only able to beat the weakest mons (or none in Clair's case). However, once it gets to the E4 and learns Earthquake it goes back to being usable. A generally bad Will (at most getting one KO) is followed by a great Koga where it can beat four mons, a surprisingly solid Bruno since it can sometimes get three kills, an average Karen being able to beat Gengar and Houndoom and a bad Lance but where it can KO both Aero and Charizard with little issue or even attempt a Rollout minisweep. It has such a variable performance that it can be hard to tier but I think B is best due to it's better than average E4.
Mankey (G) is C. Mankey probably requires the Dig TM more than anything and that's already pretty limiting, however it makes some nice use of it. Great Morty, average Chuck and Jasmine, very solid Pryce, positive Clair, awful Will, bad Koga, average Bruno, solid Karen (would be better if it outsped Houndoom but sadly Primeape only hit 94 Speed at level 42) and a surprisingly good Lance with the elemental punches. Prior to Karen I was thinking that it sadly didn't deserve more than D since it relied too much on DynamicPunch to beat the aces (Jasmine's Steelix, Clair's Kingdra, Bruno's Machamp) due to not getting Cross Chop until level 46, however those last two fights settled any doubt. C fits it just fine.
Magmar (GS) is top A. Anyone who's tried it knows that Magmar is top 5 material, so much that it was S tier at one point in the past alongside Gatr and Fearow (and the undisputed king Alakazam, of course). Perhaps what most defines Magmar is its cost efficiency: since it gets all of Fire Punch, Sunny Day, and Flamethrower by level up, the only moves it needs are ThunderPunch and Headbutt—both really cheap. Magmar starts off great against Morty, beats Chuck, sweeps Jasmine and is unfazed by Pryce. Its first big roadblock is Clair, where it sadly doesn't have a strong enough Return so it fails to 2HKO the Dragonair and is ruined by Kingdra. It picks up in the E4 with great Will and Koga, has an average at best Bruno, a solid Karen and a bad Lance (as all Fire-types) but where it can at least outspeed and 2HKO both Gyarados and Charizard. Not much more to say.
Chinchou is mostly C, might have a shot at B. Lanturn is a very unique mon in that it's a Water-type that doesn't learn any Ice-type moves (only Ice Beam with Crystal tutors but that's postgame). That alone means that it'll struggle in the final boss fight. Slow growth rate is also annoying but that's shared with a bunch of other mid-game Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras or Tentacruel. Chinchou has an average Morty spamming Surf, some very good fights against Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce, a relatively solid Clair since it can 1v1 Kingdra (and unlike other Electric-types, it doesn't get wrecked if it tries to ThunderDance), and very good rival fights as long as you didn't choose Totodile as a starter. The problems start at the E4, where its low speed means that it'll get weakened by repeated hits. Gets at most three KOs against Will, Bruno and Karen, a good Koga fight since it can beat Crobat reliably plus the three bugs, and a not great Lance as expected, where it's generally gonna KO only Gyarados and one of Aerodactyl or Charizard but might beat the three. When compared to the other mid-game Slow Water-types it's clearly better than Cloyster and worse than Starmie and Lapras, and I'd argue worse than Tentacruel since its Speed plus Barrier come in handy lategame. If any of the two should be B it's Tenta I'd say, but Chinchou is definitely not bad—just not great.
Ho-Oh is fine in B. The E4 is pretty solid since its biggest issue is running out of Sacred Fire PP, Will and Koga are sweeps, Bruno it KOs all Hitmon and can beat Machamp if it burns/Rock Slide misses, has a solid Karen beating three or possibly four mons and its Lance performance is better than I expected, defeating Charizard plus the level 50 Dragonite as long as it outspeeds since it can Recover the Hyper Beam damage and 3HKO. It might even get a third KO against Gyara or the Blizzard Dnite but then you'll have to spam Recover (also Twister hitting you for twice the damage as you Fly is disgusting). If you hate yourself and wanna catch it before Clair it also has a winning performance there thanks to Safeguard and its great Special Defense, being a roll to OHKO the Dragonair and a 2HKO on Kingdra with Sharp Beak Fly. Even if Lugia is better I don't think its Lance matchup should be that damning.
On the topic of Tentacruel, has anyone tried catching Tentacool with a Good Rod in the Olivine Harbor? While it's likely to be better to catch level 24 Tentacruel post-Morty you do get to use it for two more important fights this way, and Surf should be good enough to hold you until evolution (which comes just in time for Chuck, unlike Psyduck or Goldeen). After that it does Tentacruel things as usual. Another mon I think could be worth catching at level 20 is Qwilfish, although it comes at the expense of a good matchup against Whitney leveling it up from level 5 with only Poison Sting and Swift/Headbutt sounds disgusting. Just something I thought was worth mentioning.
Great job with this thread, guys!!
EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention last night is Game Corner TMs. From my experience you have enough money to buy the first one right before the Radio Tower arc and the second one before Clair, so if a mon such as Electrode needs them to perform well against Chuck you'll have to sell a lot of items (on the other hand something like Starmie can possibly work even without Thunder). How much should it count against them? As Ryota said in their tests just needing them is already a pretty big investment, even if it's not like Gen I Hyper Beam.
Hi y'all, I was thinking about commenting for a long time but I figured I'd first finish the run I had stopped playing from the previous thread (basically because I was very unhappy with my team's levels at Clair and felt I had screwed it up).
Even though at first I disliked that the list was started fresh and felt it neglected the contributions we'd made, I do agree that it had some inflation problems that this one attempts to fix. With that in mind, I'd like to link to my previous run to update my noms. I won't be talking about [BAN ME PLEASE] because, well, I don't wanna go down that road. Feel free to compare my run to other ones, though. I'm obviously ignoring the X items used since they're banned here—although they wouldn't change my noms anyway.
Poliwrath (C) is fine in B. It's essentially a discount Totodile that struggles against the first three gyms, has a solid midgame with great Morty and Jasmine performances and exchanges a worse (awful) Will for a better Karen in the E4. Its biggest problem is its low Speed since it means it'll struggle to get more than one kill against Lance without healing (Hypnosis can somewhat make up for it but you have to hit), its most salient point being its ability to live two Outrages from the lv. 50 Dragonite. The reasons for going with B instead of C are its Morty and Karen performances, Medium Slow leveling and access to all Water TMs. Pro tip: if you don't wanna go through its awful pre-Surf period you can catch it at level 20 with a Good Rod in Violet City (not a big detour). You can delay evolving it until after Morty since Poliwhirl outspeeds one more mon and gets the same ranges.
Bellsprout (C) should be C. Three words (or an acronym and two words I guess?): STAB Sludge Bomb. It's the strongest user of the move available and it's what differentiates it from other Grass-types. Bellsprout starts bad since it can't train in the Tower so it's better to catch it post Falkner and train around the Union Cave. Bugsy and Morty are obviously dreadful, Whitney is doable but not very efficient. Bellsprout's biggest draw is being one of the best [BAN ME PLEASE] partners for the Azalea rival since your options are few (you'll still need to put Croconaw to sleep, that thing is borked). Once you get Sludge Bomb the world is brighter. Chuck, Clair, and Bruno are excellent matchups, Pryce is solid even though it's not a clean sweep, Jasmine is bad, Will and Koga are awful, and Karen is good. Yes it sometimes needs to use Sleep Powder which is unreliable but then again it's less reliable to not have it. Sludge Bomb being able to 2HKO Clair's Kingdra, Bruno's Machamp and Karen's Umbreon with poison is just great. The sad thing is lacking a better Grass-type move than Vine Whip since it only 3HKOs Pryce's Piloswine and Will's Slowbro, but at the same time the E4 is horrible for all Grass-types (3/5ths resist the type, plus four of Lance's mons) so Bel's distinction IMO makes it the best one. It's only fair that it shares rank with Chikorita, even though they play out differently (it has better Clair, Bruno, and Karen matchups in exchange for worse Jasmine, Pryce, and Will). I'm interested to see how Vileplume will do since it exchanges a stronger STAB and speed for higher bulk.
Pidgey should be C with a chance of B. It starts well against Falkner and Bugsy but falls off badly at Whitney, having average Morty and Chuck matchups and awful Jasmine and Pryce. After evolution it can beat Clair's Kingdra one-on-one which is nice, but its biggest selling point is its E4 performance. Against Will you can beat three mons, possibly four depending on choice of moves, against Koga it can beat the non-Forretress since Return 2HKOs Muk and Crobat if it hits, and it beats all of Bruno's Fighting-types, including 2HKOing Machamp and living Rock Slide even after two Quick Attacks. Karen was more iffy since Gengar was only 3HKOed by Wing Attack meaning Curse and D-Bond were threats, Umbreon was 3HKOed (alongside OHKOing Murkrow and 2HKOing Vileplume) but Houndoom outsped and 2HKOed. Against Lance it could beat Gyarados and possibly the lv. 50 Dragonite if it derped and used Safeguard but otherwise it 2HKOed. This sounds like perfect C, however what makes me consider B is that I read other runs where Pidgeot outsped and 2HKOed Houndoom and Charizard, if that's more likely than being slower (which is possible since my Pidgeot had 91 Speed, whereas in my current run Magmar had 99 at the same level and they have similar base stat) then those performances become much better. Also even though its midgame is clearly worse than Fearow's I'm not sure it's two-tiers worse, but that's more debatable. Anyway, I recommend using Pidgeot.
Raikou is fine at C. Getting Spark with one Rare Candy is great and ThunderDance is very strong (allowing it to do stuff like beating Houndoom one-on-one, for example), however it's really frail physically and it falls short of a performance redeeming of the annoyance which is to find it/catch it pre-Master Ball (it's up to you to decide if beating Kingdra is worth it). It does relatively well against Lance since it can defeat the three non-Dragonite and only Aero outspeeds but, again, physical moves hurt.
Now onto my run. I used Chikorita, Geodude (no trade), Mankey, Magmar, and Chinchou in Gold. The idea was to train Geodude against NPC until Whitney and then grind in the wild so the others would get more experience, however it turns out two Medium Fast and one Slow mon need A LOT of experience. Even facing optional trainers wasn't enough to get better levels for Clair (however from other testers I gather they didn't do very differently). That was remedied in Victory Road since I didn't want to ruin their performances. Also I decided to catch Ho-Oh because why not, no training required.
WARNING: This is a lot of text, apologies in advance.
Falkner (level 13): Razor Leaf and Tackle both 3HKO Pidgey and 5HKO Pidgeotto, it outspeeds both. Pidgeotto's Gust does 6-7/39 damage with Reflect so if you use it the turn before KOing Pidgey you can win reliably even without crits, they never use Mud-Slap.
Bugsy (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Metapod, guaranteed with a crit. Kakuna is 5HKOed by Tackle after a Harden and has Poison Sting so best to avoid. Even with Reflect and Poisonpowder you're just prolonging the inevitable since Scyther's Fury Cutter will end up KOing you before you can do much back. Bad matchup as expected.
Azalea Town Rival (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Gastly, guaranteed with a crit. Zubat is 4HKOed by Tackle (note that Bayleef doesn't learn Swift) and does 5 damage back with Leech Life. Razor Leaf is around a 6HKO on Quilava while its Ember does 18-19/56, so very close to a 3HKO. Mediocre matchup.
Whitney (level 21 - 22): Headbutt and Razor Leaf both 3HKO Clefairy. Miltank is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf so if you set up Reflect before beating Clefairy you can defeat it. A Gold Berry ensures this, but note that it might not 4HKO Tank without Miracle Seed (PoisonPowder can help). Also depending on the damage from Clefairy it can sometimes not activate right before Reflect ends, which is very troll. Note that my Bayleef is female (I literally realized in this fight) so that helps, obviously.
Clefairy's Metronome once called Fire Spin and then Roar and another time OHKOed my Bayleef from near full health with Present, lmao.
Burned Tower Rival (level 24): Haunter outspeeds and Curses, Razor Leaf barely 4HKOs from full so it can sometimes live two, best to avoid. Zubat is 2HKOed by Headbutt. Magnemite might live three Razor Leafs but doesn't do much back besides annoying you. Tried Mud-Slap for the heck of it, it 2HKOs so not very useful. Quilava is outsped and barely not 3HKOed while Ember also fails to 3HKO from full, however Quick Attack will finish you off. You win 1-on-1 if you flinch, basically.
Morty (level 25): Miracle Seed Razor Leaf 3HKOs Gastly so I think we know where this is going. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs so it dies after Curse. The first Haunter is 3HKOed and can put you to sleep or Curse. Gengar is faster and is like a 6HKO so no point. The second Haunter outspeeds and barely doesn't 3HKO with Night Shade from full (Bayleef has 75 HP) while being 4HKOed back.
Chuck (level 29): Razor Leaf only 4HKOs Primeape but Headbutt 3HKOs reliably. Return is also a 3HKO. Razor Leaf also 3HKOs Poliwrath, who you outspeed and can use Reflect to minimize DynamicPunch's damage. As always, Mint Berry helps in case he puts you to sleep or Bitter Berry to not get screwed over by confusion.
Jasmine (level 30): Razor Leaf is like a 5HKO on Magnemite, pointless. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs and you get para'd. Steelix is around a 5HKO with Razor Leaf and can proc Hyper Potion, also Iron Tail stings without Reflect. Poor matchup.
(level 32): I'm dumb and saved over every single file so I had to sac all my team to Steelix so I could try facing Pryce first. Don't be like me, kids. Razor Leaf now 3HKOs the Magnemite but they still annoy with para. Mud-Slap 2HKOs and can make it miss T-Wave. Steelix is very close to a 3HKO with Razor Leaf so you can potentially beat it with Reflect (since Iron Tail does about a fifth), however an untimely crit can proc Hyper Potion and screw you over. Two consecutive crits kill, obviously, and Mud-Slap can help clinch the KO and avoid Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup all-in-all but winnable.
Pryce (level 31): Seel is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf and can Icy Wind which makes you slower than Dewgong so you should switch out. Dewgong's own Icy Wind + Aurora Beam almost 2HKOs (left me in red and would've killed if Seel had Aurora Beam'd) while Razor Leaf 3HKOs, you can win if you get the para from Body Slam. If you're at full it spams Aurora Beam which 3HKOs so you beat it. Piloswine outspeeds you at -1 and finishes you off. If you're at full you 2HKO while living a Blizzard with 20/92 HP, however it seems to like to Icy Wind which can kill you after the drop. You can beat Seel and one of the other two without healing, not a very good matchup.
(level 32): You still don't OHKO Seel (maybe I have bad DVs? I dunno) but you do 2HKO Dewgong and you can actually live Piloswine's Blizzard from 60/107 HP—albeit with one 1 HP left. Possible sweep without healing, much moreso considering Blizzard will often miss.
Underground Rival (level 32 - 33): Golbat is 3HKOed by Body Slam and confuses, Bitter Berry helps. For some reason it used Leech Life, Wing Attack appears to be a roll to 3HKO (it did 35/107). Quilava and Meganium 3HKO each other with Flame Wheel and Body Slam, you win if you don't get burned since you're faster and can para. You only 3HKO Magnemite with Razor Leaf so it T-Waves you, Mud-Slap 2HKOs. Haunter outspeeds if you're para'd and can Curse while Razor Leaf is only a 3HKO, Mud-Slap doesn't even do that. Sneasel is faster and Screeches but you 2HKO, you win if you're healthy. Basically it struggles to beat both Golbat and Quilava and if it does it'll be too weak to beat Sneasel or Haunter, can beat Magnemite with Mud-Slap. Three mons at best, bad MU.
Clair (level 36 - 37): Body Slam 3HKOs the Dragonair while they can only 5HKO with DragonBreath, however paralysis is annoying. Return is slightly stronger but not even with Pink Bow does it 2HKO. Against Kingdra it's actually a tough matchup, Body Slam and Razor Leaf are only 5HKOs so it'll proc Hyper Potion. At least Reflect means Hyper Beam will barely touch you but DragonBreath can eventually beat you (it's a 4HKO from full). Both Body Slam para or PoisonPowder poison are both helpful since they can't be healed.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Body Slam 2HKOs Sneasel which Screeches and 3HKOs Golbat which does 41/130 with Wing Attack normally, so if you're at -2 you can set up a Reflect on its face and still beat it (it also aids against confusion). Typhlosion appears to be 3/4HKOed but finishes you off (Flame Wheel does 57-66 damage). If you're at full fsr it starts spamming Smokescreen. Magneton seems to be a 5HKO with Razor Leaf, crits can help but you will get para'd. Haunter is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf (2HKOed after Curse) and Kadabra appears to live a Body Slam with a sliver of health but doesn't do anything back. Return helps ensure the 3HKO against Typhlosion and the OHKO against Kadabra but the rest is the same. With Earthquake you 2HKO Typhlosion (you're faster but if you're weakened it can pick you off with Quick Attack) and OHKO Magneton, Haunter, and Kadabra. Meganium outspeeds everything. Very solid matchup with EQ since you KO up to five mons (choose between Typh and Golbat), average otherwise.
Will (level 41): Body Slam 3HKOs Xatu nº 1 which Confuse Rays. Psychic does around 43/137 so Meganium can live three. You can also Light Screen up to take pitiful damage but be careful of SpDef drops. PB Return is a roll to 2HKO. Jynx is 2HKOed and can put you to sleep. Exeggutor seems to be a 5HKO and Reflects so it's unlikely you can beat it. PB Return is close to 3HKOing so you might win 1v1 since Psychic is also a 3HKO but you have Light Screen. Slowbro is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf (3HKOed after Amnesia) and Xatu is 3HKOed. If using SunnyBeam, Slowbro is 2HKOed through Amnesia and so is Jynx. If Jynx doesn't put you to sleep you can get up to four kills but it's gonna be a long fight. Meganium outspeeds everything. Average matchup.
Koga (level 41): Ohh boy. PB Body Slam 3HKOs Ariados and Venomoth and appears to be a 4HKO on Muk before Acid Armor, best to avoid. Can't touch Forretress. Body Slam appears to 4HKO Crobat but it procs healing and Double-Team is annoying. Neither PB Return nor Earthquake seem to 2HKO Ariados, it lives with a sliver of health. Venomoth seems to be a positive roll. Return only 4HKOs Muk but EQ 2HKOs (with Soft Sand it's a roll to 2HKO after Acid Armor), Sludge Bomb 2HKOs back if it uses it. Crobat appears to live three PB Returns and 3HKOs with Wing Attack, even with Reflect up it's a loss since it heals and has DT. Even with Soft Sand EQ can't do anything to Forretress. Meganium outspeeds everything but Crobat. Bad matchup as expected, the only thing you can 2HKO is Muk with EQ so even if you can get three KOs it's not worth it.
Bruno (level 41 - 42): Pink Bow Body Slam 3HKOs Hitmontop which does nothing with Quick Attack, 3HKOs Hitmonchan which can weaken you with Fire Punch and 2HKOs Hitmonlee, living all their hits in low yellow. Machamp seems to be a 6HKO (not counting healing) and Cross Chop is a roll to 2HKO from full, you can Reflect up but it'll crit you eventually. Razor Leaf obviously KOs Onix. Return doesn't make any matchup better outside of 4HKOing Machamp but it'll proc Max Potion so it's the same, really. Its only chance at sweeping is if Lee Swaggers (you need to avoid Chan because otherwise it'll attack) while you're holding a Bitter Berry and using Return, which can then 2HKO Machamp. SunnyBeam 2HKOs all Hitmons and seems to be a bad roll to 2HKO Machamp with MiracleSeed, unfortunately you'll get too weakened even if you set up both screens. Average matchup since you're generally beating everything but Champ and lose the 1v1 even with Reflect, however being able to minisweep with the Swagger boost is fun. Also it can always support its team with screens.
Karen (level 42): PB Return 4HKOs Umbreon on a roll which debuffs you with Sand-Attack and confuses. Vileplume is 3HKOed and can para and heal. Houndoom outspeeds and Flamethrower leaves you in red, Return only 3HKOs back. Earthquake is a 2HKO (also KOs Gengar after Curse) but unless you've set up Light Screen before (and are healthy!) it's a loss. Return 2HKOs Murkrow, Faint Attack does 31/140. MiracleSeed SunnyBeam 3HKOs Umbreon for what it's worth, while generally 2HKOing Murkrow. Gengar is only 3HKOed so Curse will still ruin you. Can beat three mons but it'll struggle against both Umbreon and Vileplume and needs EQ for Gengar, so bad matchup. Btw I simply took off Razor Leaf because what was the point. Gengar and Houndoom outspeed.
Lance (level 42): Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados on a roll which does less than 40% with Hyper Beam after setting up rain. If you use SunnyBeam (not on the first turn) you still only 3HKO. The Blizzard Dnite comes in, Return appears to be a 5HKO and it does 105/140 if it hits, no point in trying to set up Light Screen. Aerodactyl's Wing Attack does exactly 70 damage so it 2HKOs and Razor Leaf is only a 4HKO back (SunnyBeam 2HKOs but only chance to set up is if you lure the Hyper Beam, and even then you'll likely die). Thunder Dragonite is a bit better than its sibling since it can only threaten you with Hyper Beam and you have Reflect, although para and only 5HKOing is bad. Charizard almost OHKOs and appears to be a 3HKO, can't say for certain. Lv. 50 Dragonite does 45% with Outrage while you 5HKO. You can possibly do well with Light Screen since it'll get confused but since it'll proc healing I doubt you can beat it. Only Aero and Charizard outspeed but since it's at most KOing Gyara and the Thunder Nite (and that's a stretch imo) it's a bad matchup.
Falkner (level 11 - 12): Rock Throw OHKOs Pidgey if it hits, Pidgeotto can live in red at level 11. Mud-Slap from Pidgey does 3 damage and Pidgeotto's does 5 (3 after a Defense Curl) so you can lose even with a Berry if you miss too much.
Bugsy (level 18 - 19): Hit three Rock Throws = GG. Metapod can sometimes live after a Harden but other than that it's three KOs, nothing new here.
Azalea Town Rival (level 19): Hard Stone Rock Throw OHKOs every one of Silver's mons. Any order of Magnitude will OHKO Gastly and 7 and above will defeat Quilava, so the only thing of worry is Zubat's Bite flinching (particularly if you got para'd) or a burn from Quilava, which does 7/48 with Ember. Excellent matchup.
Whitney (level 21 - 22): Fought as few trainers as possible so as to not overlevel while getting the Rollout TM. You 2HKO Clefairy with Rock Throw. Miltank's Stomp stings so you might want to get a Defense Curl before. Needs Magnitude 7 or higher to 3HKO the cow. With CurlOut, you 2HKO Clef and OHKO Miltank on the third hit if you don't get flinched. Be careful of Metronome, otherwise this is a solid matchup.
Interestingly, even though Geodude was male Miltank only used Attract when I had a Reflect up, not with a Defense Curl.
Burned Tower Rival (level 22): Haunter Curses so any order of Magnitude KOs. Zubat dies to Rock Throw and Magnemite to Magnitude, both outspeed and can confuse so watch out. Quilava can live a Rock Throw or Magnitudes lower than 7, however it only threatens you with burns.
Morty (level 24 - 25): Tried it as Geodude first. Gastly outspeeds and Curses before dying. Haunter can Hypnosis or Night Shade and drops to a Magnitude 6 or higher. Gengar for some reason prefers Mean Look over Shadow Ball and is OHKOed by Magnitude 7 or higher. If you still have the Mint Berry intact you can KO no problem. The second Haunter also dies to Magnitude 6. Good matchup even before evolving.
(level 25): You're still slower than Gastly which Curses. Haunter nº 1 now drops to Magnitude 5 too. Then for some reason comes Haunte nº 2, which can live a Magnitude 5 and Night Shade. Even after taking two Night Shades (and being at 19 HP) Gengar doesn't Shadow Ball, apparently it only does when it's super effective. It still lives the Magnitude 6 so the only difference with Geodude is the first Haunter.
Chuck (level 29): Two Magnitudes 7 or higher 2HKO Primeape who likes to Leer or Rage, Karate Chop 3HKOs. Lol Poliwrath.
(level 29): Magnitude obviously KOs the Mags, Supersonic is annoying tho so you might want to give it a Bitter Berry. Steelix is outsped and 4HKOed by Magnitude 7 (3HKO with 8) and Iron Tail OHKOs back, bad matchup I'd say. At least you outspeed the steel snake.
Pryce (level 29): Seel is a speedtie, you need Magnitude 9 to OHKO it so you're most likely getting hit. Piloswine comes in and outspeeds and OHKOs with Blizzard, you don't even 2HKO back. Against Dewgong they 2HKO each other but it wins because it's faster.
Underground Rival (level 29 - 30): Just for the hell of it. Rock Throw only 2HKOs Golbat and Bite stings, doing about a quarter. Magnemite's SonicBoom also does around a quarter. Sneasel's Faint Attack also does around a quarter so it can KO you if it hits it twice, Rock Throw doesn't OHKO. You barely live Quilava's Flame Wheel after all that damage and KO with Magnitude 7. With Rollout (and Bitter Berry) you 2HKO Golbat, then OHKO Sneasel, then OHKO Magnemite (level up here), then OHKO Haunter which Mean Looks fsr. Quilava's Flame Wheel is a roll to KO at that point and dies to Magnitude. Being slower than even Magnemite is annoying when you're hitting everything for super effective damage.
Clair (level 33): Lol no. Didn't try it against the Tbolt Dragonair but even at a higher level it'll take a lot from Twister—also it's hard to know if it's Tbolt or not when it comes in).
Victory Road Rival (level 39 - 40): Rock Throw OHKOs Sneasel which likes to Fury Cutter. Strength KOs Kadabra as it Future Sights which will do 42/107. Magnitude KOs Haunter which might Curse you, in which case you need an order of 8 or higher to OHKO Typhlosion (or use Earthquake), Flame Wheel does 24 damage back. Magneton Sonicbooms and dies. Golbat lives a Rock Throw and either confuses or Bites you for 19 damage. Everything outspeeds you so it's hard to sweep without luck, but still a solid matchup.
Will (level 41): Xatu's Psychic 2HKOs while Rock Throw 2HKOs back, you need it to use Confuse Ray and hold a Berry to win. Avoid Exeggutor. Slowbro is 3HKOed by Earthquake but finishes you off with Psychic. If you're at full it likes to set up so you can win that exchange. Jynx OHKOs with Ice Punch. Xatu n° 2 is like n° 1. You only outspeed Slowbro and are unlikely to beat more than one mon, but if you defeated the first Xatu without taking damage you can potentially beat Slowbro too (and you can always boom if you're into that). Bad matchup of course.
Koga (level 41): Rock Throw 2HKOs Ariados which leaves you in red with Giga Drain but generally Double-Teams. Earthquake 3HKOs Forretress which is cool, it's a speedtie tho so it can do over half with boom. Hard Stone Rock Throw 2HKOs Crobat and doesn't always proc healing, evasion is annoying of course. Without Hard Stone it's a favorable roll. Needs Soft Sand to OHKO Muk with Earthquake, it's faster so it can Minimize or Acid Armor on you. Venomoth is 2HKOed but between confusion and Psychic doing 42/110 it can win so might wanna avoid. Great matchup I'd say, only outspeeding Ariados and Forretress is annoying but luckily Muk and Crobat can barely harm you so you should get four kills easily.
Bruno (level 41): OHKOs Hitmontop with Earthquake as it Digs. It can live a Hi Jump Kick in low yellow, Soft Sand EQ appears to be a good roll to OHKO. For some reason Lee uses Foresight sometimes? So if that happens you can beat it unharmed. Graveler also lives two Ice Punches from Hitmonchan at full. Onix doesn't EQ if you're healthy and instead Binds, it does live an EQ of your own at full tho (at 42 it's still not guaranteed). Its own does a bit less than half. Machamp outspeeds and OHKOS. Will generally only beat two mons, might be three if Lee screws up (you can use a Bitter Berry for Swagger). Bad matchup obviously since you're slower than everything, but could be worse.
Karen (level 41): Earthquake 3HKOs Umbreon which outspeeds. Vileplume OHKOs with Petal Dance, avoid. Gengar is OHKOed but it always used Curse. Houndoom leaves you in red and is OHKOed. Hard Stone Rock Throw is a roll to OHKO (guaranteed at level 42), Faint Attack does 46/110. You're generally only gonna be beating two (Gengar + one of Murkrow or Houndoom), however when you're at full the AI fsr uses Roar/Whirlwind so there's a chance you beat three. Meh matchup although 1v1ing Houndoom is always cool.
Lance (level 41): Avoid Gyarados. Aero is 2HKOed by Rock Throw and Hyper Beam does 25/110, so less than a quarter. If it AncientPowers first and then HB you'll have taken 40 damage from that exchange, great as long as you don't miss. Avoid Blizzard Dnite. Charizard's Flamethrower does 50/110 and you OHKO back, meaning you can very well beat both it and Aero without healing. Thunder Dnite 3HKOs with Twister and is 3HKOed back. Lv. 50 Dragonite is also 3HKOed but Outrage is almost an OHKO. You'll only beat Aero and Charizard so it's far from a great matchup but it's still better than most can say (also it funnily goes well with elemental punches Primeape). I honestly expected Charizard's Flamethrower to do more, I'm disappointed.
If you use Rollout against Aerodactyl you still 2HKO, then the Blizzard Dragonite comes in. If it misses it's a roll to KO (achieved at level 42), then sometimes the Thunder Dnite will switch in and you can tank a Twister and KO it with enough health to survive a Flamethrower from Charizard. Even if it requires a lot of luck, being able to KO four mons is impressive
Burned Tower Rival (level 22): Can't touch Haunter without Dig, it outspeeds and generally Licks while you 2HKO (OHKO after Curse). Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed by Headbutt. Quilava outspeeds and does a lot with Ember while being 2HKOed back with Dig (anything else fails to). I was left in red after all the damage. Magnemite is KOed with Karate Chop, it might live with 1 HP if you're at level 22.
Morty (level 25 - 26): Dig OHKOs Gastly and the first Haunter which is a speedtie. Gengar outspeeds and might Mean Look or Hypnosis, a Mint Berry helps since he has to hit it twice as you 2HKO. After leveling up you OHKO the second Haunter, at 25 you're outsped and it lives so it can Night Shade. Dig is obviously required to actually hurt the Ghosts but solid matchup, I'd say.
Chuck (level 29): You 2HKO opposing Primeape with BlackBelt Karate Chop. Poliwrath seems to be a 4HKO and can put you to sleep or 2HKO with DynamicPunch (you barely live at -1) so you need a lot of luck to win. Since Return is still weak I tried Pink Bow Strength and it's also a 4HKO so same deal.
Jasmine (level 29): Karate Chop OHKOs both Magnemite, however it only 5HKOs Steelix which brings you to low yellow with Iron Tail. Black Belt DynamicPunch isn't quite a 2HKO but it becomes one after a self-hit, obviously you need to be very lucky. I also tried Fire Punch, it's a 3HKO so it procs Hyper Potion but it can burn to soften up the Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup, KOing the Magnemite isn't that great.
Pryce (level 30): Any physical move 2HKOs Seel, Headbutt is best because of flinch. Karate Chop puts Dewgong in low yellow/red health while Aurora Beam does 20/90 damage, doesn't even 2HKO with crits lol. Piloswine is 2HKOed, sometimes it procs Hyper Potion and sometimes it doesn't. For some reason it spams Mist, but even if it Blizzards it only does 40 damage. Fantastic matchup. DynamicPunch obviously OHKOs everything but I'd rather try to crit Karate Chop thrice than use it.
Underground Rival (level 31 - 32): Headbutt 3HKOs Golbat which 2HKOs with Wing Attack but generally uses Confuse Ray first (Bitter Berry can help). Strength is still a 3HKO. Haunter is OHKOed on a roll by Dig after leveling up (at 31 it barely lives), you can't touch it otherwise. Karate Chop is barely not a 2HKO on Quilava but it + Dig is. Flame Wheel does 27/97, so over a quarter. BlackBelt DynamicPunch still doesn't OHKO. Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed, Sneasel's Quick Attack can put you in red after a Wing Attack and a Flame Wheel. Good matchup outside of Golbat.
Clair (level 36): Seismic Toss and Karate Chop 3HKO Dragonair which T-Waves back. Strength comes close to 2HKO but needs Pink Bow, Return is weaker. BlackBelt DynamicPunch leaves it in red so it can die to confusion. Kingdra is 4HKOed by Seismic Toss or Karate Chop and 2HKOs back with Surf. DynamicPunch just barely 2HKOs. If you connect all 5 D-Punches you can actually sweep, but we know that's super unlikely (3,125% chance, not even counting that the Nair can live and paralize you) so I'd say this is not a good matchup but not bad either, you can at least beat a couple Nairs.
Victory Road Rival (level 39 - 40): Karate Chop OHKOes Sneasel. Pink Bow Strength appears to be an unfavorable roll to 2HKO Golbat, I always left it in red. Golbat generally uses Confuse Ray while Wing Attack does 55/117, so a bit less than half. PB Return improves the odds. Strength OHKOs Kadabra and Dig OHKOs Haunter (and you avoid Curse) and 2HKOs Typhlosion after leveling up while it does 36 damage with Flame Wheel. At 39 it's a roll to 2HKO but since you're 3HKOed you win if you're healthy. Karate Chop doesn't OHKO Magneton so you need to Dig again. Primeape outspeeds everything. Solid matchup with Dig, only iffy one is Golbat due to confusion.
Will (level 41): Pink Bow Return 2HKOs (might be a roll) Xatu nº 1 and it likes to Confuse Ray. Psychic leaves Primeape in red and then Quick Attack finishes it off. You need either a crit Karate Chop or to hit DynamicPunch to KO Jynx which OHKOs back. You also need to break through confusion if you don't have Bitter Berry. Exeggutor seems to be a 3HKO (it KOs back), Slowbro a 4HKO but it spams Curse and Xatu nº 2 a 3HKO. ThunderPunch is a 3HKO on Slowbro so you can beat it as it Curses and NMI Ice Punch seems to 2HKO Exeggutor but it destroys you. You can live a Psychic from anything but Jynx and Exeggutor, if you're lucky you can get two kills, maybe three with ThunderPunch. Primeape outspeeds everything. Awful matchup.
Koga level 41): PB Return only 3HKOs Ariados, same as Seismic Toss funnily. It could be a bad roll to 2HKO but since Ariados likes to Giga Drain I never got it. It's a 2HKO on Venomoth luckily, most of the time. Veno spams Toxic generally but Psychic is a 2HKO. Crobat seems to be a 4HKO but between DT, Wing Attack 2HKOing and healing there's no point. Forretress sadly lives three Seismic Tosses at level 41 with 1 HP so you need a Rare Candy to beat it. Swift doesn't hurt you really but you risk the boom. PB Return 3HKOs Muk and it generally doesn't Acid Armor, choosing to Minimize first and either Toxic or 2HKO with Sludge Bomb (it does around 60/123 so it's a roll from full), so if you hit the Returns you can win. Charcoal Fire Punch 2HKOs Ariados, is a bad roll to 2HKO Venomoth and OHKOs Forretress, Ice Punch 3HKOs Crobat but it beats you anyway. Pink Bow appears to be necessary to 3HKO Muk (you can technically Dig the first time but the more turns you waste the higher the odds of Acid Armor), since Forry likes to Spike I'd say PB is the better item. Primeape outspeeds everything but Crobat. Not exactly a solid matchup but you can beat up to four mons with Fire Punch.
Bruno (level 41): Return 3HKOs Hitmontop, you can beat it unscathed if you Dig on its Dig. Hitmonlee is 2HKOed but does over half with Hi Jump Kick. Hitmonchan lives two PB Returns on a roll and can beat you with Mach Punch after you've been weakened. It can also live a Return after Swagger. Seismic Toss 3HKOs all Hitmon. Machamp is a loss even from full since you only 4HKO and Cross Chop 2HKOs you. Karate Chop doesn't quite 2HKO Onix. With Black Belt DynamicPunch you put Hitmontop in low yellow, OHKO Lee, leave Chan in red (so it's a 50% chance that you'll only be hit with one Mach Punch) and does just over half to Machamp. If you hit all five you win a fridge. Average matchup I'd say, it takes too much damage from Lee + Chan so it's hard to beat more than three. Nothing outspeeds Primeape.
Karen (level 41 - 42): Black Belt Karate Chop 3HKOs Umbreon which Sand-Attacks and confuses, you can 2HKO with a crit so nb. Return 3HKOs Vileplume which paras and does about 45% with Petal Dance, avoid. Dig 2HKOs Gengar or OHKOs after Curse, you're slower tho so be careful of Destiny Bond (it mostly Cursed so I never saw it). Both Karate Chop and Return 2HKO Murkrow which does nothing with Faint Attack. BB Karate Chop leaves Houndoom in low yellow/red which does a ton with Flamethrower and is also faster. Since it procs Max Potion you have higher chances to crit but that's about it. DynamicPunch almost OHKOs Umbreon, leaving it in red. Ice Punch 3HKOs Vileplume and 2HKOs Murkrow, same as Return. DynamicPunch OHKOs Murkrow and Houndoom. Clearly can't sweep without healing and it's best to avoid both Vileplume and Gengar, however only needing to hit two DynamicPunches to beat the toughest mons (or one and critting Karate Chop, but that's less likely) means the matchup is positive. It's annoying that you don't outspeed Houndoom at level 42, however.
Lance (level 42): Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados which does 65% back with Hyper Beam after setting up rain. Aerodactyl then picks you off. ThunderPunch 2HKOs Gyara so you can beat it unscathed, unfortunately it only 3HKOs Aero which outspeeds and 2HKOs with Wing Attack. Avoid. Ice Punch 2HKOs lv. 47 Dragonite which T-Wave and then Hyper Beam, putting you in red/low yellow. Charizard outspeeds and 2HKOs while being 3HKOed, much like Aero. Lv. 50 Dragonite is 2HKOed (!) and likes to go for Safeguard, you can barely live a Hyper Beam so you win at full. If you run PrzcureBerry you can actually KO up to three mons including the boss, which is pretty remarkable considering it's a Primeape. I'll call this a positive matchup as long as you use the elemental punches. Color me impressed, Koko.
Burned Tower Rival (level 21): Surf is a roll to 2HKO Haunter so you might kill after Curse, you might not. Magnemite is outsped and 2HKOed, still might want to switch out to avoid Curse damage. Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed, watch out for confusion. Quilava outspeeds and can't do much while being 2HKOed back. Basically Surf 2HKOs everything except Haunter sometimes.
Morty (level 24): Gastly drops to Surf, Haunter is faster and can Curse or Hypnosis as you 2HKO. Gengar is barely 3HKOed so you need it to miss a couple of Hypnosis, you can always T-Wave it first. Doable but needs luck. The second Haunter is 2HKOed while Chinchou lives three Night Shades from full. Positive matchup since it can definitely beat the three non-Gengar.
Chuck (level 29): Surf 2HKOs, while Magnet Spark + Surf comes very close to so you might be able to outspeed the second turn and KO. If it uses Leer you should switch out because DynamicPunch will sting (it does around 50/114 otherwise). You outspeed Wrath and it barely lives two Magnet Sparks so you might as well use a Mint Berry for sleep. Good matchup, I'd say.
Jasmine (level 29 - 30): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf, however Steelix uses Sunny Day and can proc Hyper Potion so it becomes a 3HKO. Rock Throw does 20/118 back, so 1/6. Best way to do it is setting up rain on the first Mag and then OHKOing everything, a paralysis berry is recommended. Great matchup outside of parahax.
Pryce (level 30 - 31): Seel lives the Magnet Spark (I'm starting to see a trend here), then Piloswine comes and tanks the Surf but doesn't do much back with Fury Attack, you'll need to hit it thrice because of Hyper Potion. It's a roll with MysticWater. Dewgong does even less than against Magmar and is 2HKOed after leveling up, otherwise it's a 3HKO. I finished in high green, excellent matchup.
Underground Rival
(level 32 - 33): Sadly I couldn't get the Thunder TM because the casino is blocked. Golbat outspeeds and can confuse or attempt to flinch with Bite, which does 14/126 or 1/9th. Spark 2HKOs and you can outspeed after the para. Magnemite is swept away by Surf. Haunter can only Curse as it's otherwise 2HKOed. Sneasel is 3HKOed by two Sparks + Surf, it can't do much damage but you might need to switch out if you were Cursed. Quilava can't touch you and is OHKOed. It only outspeeds Magnemite but it's so fat that it's a solid matchup, only annoying things are confusion and Curse.
Clair (level 36): Surf is like a 5HKO on Dragonair, with rain it becomes a 3HKO. Apparently it's a speedtie which is annoying, they can't do much back besides para you tho. Kingdra is like 5HKOed by Magnet Spark and it'll likely proc Hyper Potion, meanwhile Hyper Beam does around 45%. DragonBreath does 40/142 so about 28.5%. With the Thunder TM you do 40% min and are able to avoid misses from Smokescreen, however DragonBreath para is annoying. Possibly the best way to beat it is by paralyzing it first turn and then setting up rain and beating it as it has to recharge from Hyper Beam (be careful of rain-boosted Surf which almost 3HKOs). Not a particularly exciting matchup but can beat the ace one-on-one.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf. Sneasel dies to Spark + Surf so you can fish for para, worst thing it can do is Screech + Quick Attack which does around 24/153, it'll generally Fury Cutter tho. Magneton can T-Wave you, Haunter Curses or Confuse Rays, Kadabra Future Sights which does actually respectable 34 damage, Typhlosion Smokescreens and Golbat Confuse Rays or Bites, meaning a lot of hax is involved so it's hard to sweep even if they can't directly hurt you. Best strategy is to set up rain and OHKO Sneasel, Magneton and Haunter and reset it against Kadabra (you'll have to switch out if Cursed) so you can KO Typhlosion and Golbat with Thunder. Lanturn only outspeeds Magneton. Positive matchup with rain, still annoying. In its best performance I finished in high yellow.
Will (level 41): Magnet Spark leaves Xatu in red, it generally confuses so Bitter Berry might be a better option. Psychic does around 55/163 so it's close to a 3HKO. With a Berry and a para from Spark you might walk out unharmed. Switch out against Exeggutor. Slowbro is 2HKOed by Spark, 3HKOed after Amnesia. Jynx is only 3HKOed by Surf and can put you to sleep so don't bother. Xatu nº 2 is essentially the same as the first one. Since Psychic 3HKOs it's hard to beat more than two, you basically need para or confusion luck. You can also use Thunder outside of rain if you want (since it's more likely to hit than Spark to para). It OHKOs both Xatu and leaves Slowbro in red (with Magnet it can OHKO). Since you only need it to hit twice I'd say it's a good alternative. Lanturn only outspeeds Slowbro and Exeggutor. Not what I'd call a good matchup but you can beat all Electric-weaks.
Koga (level 41): MW Surf 2HKOs Ariados as it uses Double Team, Forretress which Spikes and 3HKOs Venomoth which can Toxic you or confuse you (Surf + Thunder 2HKOs if you wanna risk that). Muk is only 4HKOed and can Toxic or Minimize. Spark doesn't seem to 2HKO Crobat without Magnet. Rain-boosted MW Surf fails to OHKO Ariados and Forretress (does 2HKO Venomoth and 3HKO Muk) so it might be better to use Magnet after all. Venomoth's Psychic does 38/163 and Muk's Sludge Bomb does 64/163. Without MysticWater Surf doesn't 2HKO Forretress but you can always use Surf + Thunder (also 2HKOs Venomoth). Magnet Thunder in rain 3HKOs Muk not minding Minimize and OHKOs Crobat on a roll (note that I leveled up after beating Muk, it might fail to KO otherwise), so you can potentially set up rain against Muk and beat both since they don't like to attack often. Only Crobat and Venomoth outspeed. Very good matchup since even if it can't always sweep it can beat the two big ones or one plus the other three.
Bruno (level 41 - 42): MW Surf 3HKOs Hitmontop, if you set up rain as it Digs you KO the following turn. Dig does 47-50/163, so over 25%. Hitmonlee comes in and threatens to 2HKO you with Hi Jump Kick (does 65 damage), your only way of beating it is if it doesn't use it or if you para with Thunder. Hitmonchan does 26 damage with each Mach Punch so it's hard to realistically beat all three Hitmon without healing, if you para'd Lee you can potentially live the two Machs but the damage comes dangerously close to 100%. Note that without MysticWater Surf + rain-boosted Surf becomes a bad roll. Onix is obviously OHKOed by Surf, but do note that at level 41 it appeared to be a speedtie. If it only happened to me then it might've been the DVs. Machamp is generally a no, Cross Chop 2HKOs from full and Rain-boosted Surf barely 2HKOs. There's a chance since it'll miss a CC 36% of the time, of course. I wanna say meh to bad matchup, it'll most likely beat three mons without healing and they're the easiest ones. Also Dig does a ton, like wtf.
Karen (level 41 - 42): Three Magnet Thunders in rain don't quite KO Umbreon so you need to use Surf. Avoid Vileplume. Houndoom is 2HKOed by Surf and does around 40% with Crunch. MW Surf 3HKOs Gengar so it doesn't kill after Curse, best to avoid. Murkrow appears to live a Spark so you need to use Thunder, Faint Attack does around 39/167 back. Bad matchup generally, although if it can set up rain on Murkrow it can KO it, Houndoom and Gengar after Curse. Setting up on Gengar is also possible but you'll take damage from Curse. You only outspeed Umbreon and Vileplume which you wanna avoid.
Lance (level 42): Fsr Gyarados spams Flail, Magnet Spark doesn't quite KO so you need to hit Thunder or set up your own rain. If it Hyper Beams it does 81/167, a bit less than half. Lv. 47 Dragonite paras while you 3HKO with Thunder. Its Hyper Beam does over 60%. You'll be lucky if you beat one since you need to have rain set up. Both Aero and Charizard are 2HKOed by Surf (needs Mystic Water to OHKO in rain), Magnet Thunder is a roll to OHKO Aero but not Charizard so you probably won't be beating both unless they come in a row. The strategy would be: tank a Hyper Beam from Aero that will put you at around half, set up rain and KO on the recharge turn, and then tank Charizard's HB (which does around 60 damage, so less than 40%) and KO back. You should be able to live those two attacks + Gyarados's Flail, but if Aero doesn't Hyper Beam the strategy will fail. If you can beat all three non-Dnite I'll call this a positive matchup but otherwise it's pretty meh, no Ice-type moves sucks.
Morty (level 24 - 25): Fire Punch KOs Gastly and, after leveling up, the first Haunter. Gengar is outsped (I'm 59 Speed) and 2HKOed so its only hope is to hit a Hypnosis. Mint Berry takes care of that. Haunter can live if you're not Charcoal and do some damage with Night Shade before dropping. Note that Gengar outspeeds and lives two Fire Punches if you're at level 24.
Chuck (level 29): Fire Punch 2HKOs Primeape ez pz, worst it can do is Leer. Magnet ThunderPunch appears to be a bad roll to 2HKO Poliwrath and it likes to use Mind Reader for some reason instead of Surf. DynamicPunch OHKOs at -1, other than that I call this a solid matchup since AI is bad.
Jasmine (level 30): Ember or Fire Punch OHKOs the Magnemite. Steelix lives the FP in low red and does around 50/84 with Rock Throw. Not perfect matchup since it dies to a crit but pretty solid as expected.
Pryce (level 30): ThunderPunch doesn't OHKO Seel and is a roll to 2HKO Dewgong (guaranteed with Magnet), however since you take no damage it's fine. Piloswine can live the Fire Punch if you don't have Charcoal but doesn't do anything back. Excellent matchup.
Underground Rival Golbat is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, Wing Attack does 30% back (funnily, Headbutt flinch into TPunch also 2HKOs). Haunter surprisingly lives a Fire Punch and can Curse you or waste a turn with Mean Look. Quilava is 3HKOed by Headbutt and ThunderPunch (Return is weaker but Pink Bow Strength 2HKOs) and Flame Wheel does little. Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed, Quick Attack does 1/7th. Not a perfect matchup but all-around great.
Clair (level 36): Its strongest move against Dragonair is Pink Bow Strength (Return is still weaker) and it's a roll to 2HKO, meanwhile Surf 2HKOs back. If you use Sunny Day Fire Punch is a 3HKO but it causes Nair to spam T-Wave and Slam. Then Kingdra comes in and OHKOs with Surf while you 4HKO. I guess you can use DynamicPunch if you're into that. It 2HKOs the Nair and appears to 3HKO Kingdra with a BlackBelt (clinches with confusion), however it can proc Hyper Potion so you'll run out of PP. One thing to mention is that if you set up sun before Kingdra comes in it'll prioritize Smokescreen or DragonBreath instead of just Surfing twice, however DragonBreath + Hyper Beam 2HKOs. Awful matchup as expected, can only win with hax.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Sneasel dies to Fire Punch, Golbat is 2HKOed by Thunder Punch and does 30/108 with Wing Attack, Haunter lives Fire Punch in red and can Curse or Confuse Ray, Kadabra is 2HKOed and Future Sights, Tpyhlosion seems to be a 4HKO with Thunder Punch and Magneton is obviously OHKOed. Setting up sun on Sneasel is risky because of Screech (and Magmar is already very frail physically) but sun-boosted Fire Punch leaves Golbat in red and OHKOs Haunter and Kadabra. With Return you OHKO Kadabra and 3HKO Typhlosion. Magmar outspeeds everything. It's not easy to get a full sweep but you should take out five mons (one of Typh and Golbat, as always) reliably.
Will (level 41): ThunderPunch leaves both Xatu in low red and they can confuse you, Magmar lives two Psychics from full. Exeggutor drops in one hit from Fire Punch but Jynx appears to survive it so it can put you to sleep or do half back. Flamethrower kills it obviously. Slowbro is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, 3HKO after Amnesia. Sun-boosted Fire Punch doesn't OHKO Xatu but Flamethrower does, with a Bitter Berry you can beat it unscathed. The problem is that Slowbro comes next so sun will have run out when the second Xatu comes in. You can live two Psychics from Slowbro and Xatu but then Xatu's Quick Attack finishes you off, it might spam Confuse Ray tho. Hard to sweep since Magmar is so frail but should beat four easily. You outspeed everything. Very good matchup.
Koga (level 41 - 42): Fire Punch OHKOs Ariados and Forretress. Muk seems to be a positive roll to 3HKO and it generally Minimizes so you can beat it while taking around half from Sludge Bomb (Flamethrower ensures this). ThunderPunch 2HKOs Crobat and Fire Punch OHKOs Ariados. You can generally beat Sludge Bomb + Wing Attack as long as you're not poisoned. If you set up Sunny Day on Forretress as it Protects you can easily 2HKO Muk and leave Crobat in low yellow. Only Crobat outspeeds. Excellent matchup I'd say.
Bruno (level 42 - 43): Fire Punch 3HKOs Hitmontop which does a bit less than half with Dig, if you set up sun as it's underground you KO it the following turn. Flamethrower also 2HKOs. Onix comes in and it's a good roll to OHKO with Flamethrower after leveling up. Machamp lives a hit and finishes you off so best to avoid it. If you attempt to 1v1 it you can barely live a Cross Chop from full and don't quite 2HKO with Charcoal Flamethrower. Depending on how much prior damage you've taken Hitmonlee will decide to attack you or Swagger, in which case you can 2HKO it and Hitmonchan as long as you don't get confused. Otherwise Chan's Mach Punch will KO you. Nothing outspeeds you. Meh matchup, can beat up to three mons but its Defense is too low so it isn't reliable.
Karen (level 42 - 43): Flamethrower 3HKOs Umbreon, Sun-boosted is a 2HKO. DynamicPunch is a 2HKO and if it hits itself it's almost in range of Flamethrower. Gengar is OHKOed after Curse, if it Licks it's a 2HKO or a OHKO on rolls in sun. Both ThunderPunch and Sun-boosted Flamethrower OHKO Murkrow. Magmar outspeeds Houndoom and can 3HKO with Return or OHKO with DynamicPunch, Crunch 2HKOs back. Fire Punch doesn't OHKO Vileplume, Flamethrower does. Can easily beat three mons and likely four so it's a solid matchup once again. Outspeeding Houndoom even at level 42 is particularly cool.
Lance (level 42 - 43): Magnet ThunderPunch almost OHKOs Gyarados which sets up rain. Aerodactyl almost OHKOs back with Rock Slide while being 2HKOed. Return only 4HKOs the lv. 47 Dragonite, even with a Pink Bow. Hyper Beam puts you in red. Magnet ThunderPunch 2HKOs Charizard while you tank its Hyper Beam just fine, and you outspeed even at level 42. This is basically the same performance as Typhlosion's so not much else to say, bad matchup as expected.
Clair (level 40): Shark Beak Fly almost OHKOs the Dragonair, you have Safeguard to prevent T-Wave. Surf/Tbolt do around 30/142 HP and you can Recover the damage if need be. Kingdra is 2HKOed by Fly and its Surf does around half. Excellent matchup, really its biggest issue is catching it before the Master Ball.
I didn't face the rival because I needed my HM slave.
Will (level 40): Both Sacred Fire and Fly 2HKO Xatu, you can use Safeguard to prevent confusion. Fly appears to 3HKO Slowbro but it Curses so it's best to avoid it. Fly doesn't quite KO Exeggutor but it does KO Jynx, Sacred Fire also beats both. Spell Tag Shadow Ball OHKO both Xatu and 2HKO Slowbro even after Curse. Just for the lols, sun-boosted Sacred Fire OHKOs both Xatu but Slowbro lives! a SolarBeam. Ho-Oh outspeeds everything. Excellent matchup as expected, only Slowbro is annoying if your best move for it is Fly.
Koga (level 40): Sacred Fire OHKOs Ariados and 3HKOs Muk, a burn can help turn it into a 2HKO. Sharp Beak Fly doesn't 2HKO and Minimize + Acid Armor makes it less useful. Crobat is also 2HKOed with a burn. You'll have to use Fly at a point otherwise you'll run out of PP before Forretress. Fly OHKOs Venomoth. Earthquake leaves Muk in red. Only Crobat outspeeds. Great matchup, the biggest issue is running out of Sacred Fire PP so you might want to avoid one of Crobat/Muk due to evasion.
Bruno (level 40): Sacred Fire 2HKOs Hitmontop, don't use Fly as it'll Detect. It also 2HKOs Onix so you can beat it if you burn. Chan and Lee are OHKOed by Fly but Machamp lives one and OHKOs with Rock Slide. If you burn it with Sacred Fire you can live and win even if it procs healing. Since Fly does so much. Solid matchup, can clean the three Hitmon and one of Onix or Machamp 50% of the time if you account for misses. At level 42 Fly still doesn't guarantee the KO on Champ so best strategy is to burn it.
Karen (level 40): Umbreon is 3HKOed by both Sacred Fire and Sharp Beak Fly. Gengar outspeeds and Curses, it's otherwise 2HKOed. At level 40 Murkrow lives both attacks but doesn't do much back. Houndoom outspeeds and does 37/142, so about 25%, while being 2HKOed by Fly. Vileplume appears to be a roll to OHKO. Even at level 42 you're not OHKOing Murkrow. Needs Earthquake to KO both Gengar and Houndoom (the latter is a roll), otherwise it's best to just switch out of Gengar since without Curse it can beat Houndoom 1v1. Sun-boosted Charcoal Sacred Fire 2HKOs Umbreon at level 41 but doesn't OHKO Gengar. It does KO Murkrow, tho. I'd say best course of action is switching out of Gengar since you can tank special hits easily but between Sand-Attack and Curse you won't be able to beat Houndoom, other than that this performs as a worse Magmar.
Lance (level 40): Sharp Beak Fly is a 2HKO on rolls on Gyarados which does 81/142 with rain Surf. Thunder Dragonite does 71 damage, so half. Fly is a 3HKO but remember that Thunder can hit you mid-air. Avoid. Blizzard Dnite does 83 damage with Hyper Beam. You can beat it 1v1 since you can Recover on the recharge turn and have Safeguard in case of paralysis, although it's not super reliable since Twister does double the damage mid-air. Avoid Aerodactyl. Charizard does 54 damage with Hyper Beam, Fly seems to be a roll to 2HKO. Lv. 50 Dragonite outspeeds you at level 40 but not at 41. Its Hyper Beam does around 100 damage and Outrage 58 while you 3HKO. It's a win most of the time with healing since it likes to waste turns using Safeguard. It can beat any of Gyarados/BlizzNite/Charizard/Lv. 50 Nite but it'll realistically only beat two, three at most with recover spam. I guess being able to beat the ace means it's not really a bad matchup but Fly is the opposite of efficiency and I hate how they can hit you in the air.
Chikorita is C. We all know what it does: it's a support mon first and foremost, and that makes it have a harder time sweeping than offensive threats. That's not to say its attacking stats are bad, however, the problem is its lack of powerful moves and generally bad offensive typing. Chikorita can beat Falkner, Whitney generally, Chuck, Jasmine's Steelix and Pryce as Meganium, does relatively well against Clair's Kingdra although it can lose, has an average Will and a positive Bruno (especially if you avoid Hitmonchan and get Hitmonlee to Swagger), and is bad against Bugsy, Morty, most rival fights, Koga, Karen, and Lance. As stated in the Bellsprout paragraph, even though they're very different their performances are similar at the end of the day so they belong in the same tier.
Graveler is B. Geodude is probably the best Pokémon for the first four gyms, especially when paired with Chikorita since it covers the rival so well. It then has a dip in performance that makes it only able to beat the weakest mons (or none in Clair's case). However, once it gets to the E4 and learns Earthquake it goes back to being usable. A generally bad Will (at most getting one KO) is followed by a great Koga where it can beat four mons, a surprisingly solid Bruno since it can sometimes get three kills, an average Karen being able to beat Gengar and Houndoom and a bad Lance but where it can KO both Aero and Charizard with little issue or even attempt a Rollout minisweep. It has such a variable performance that it can be hard to tier but I think B is best due to it's better than average E4.
Mankey (G) is C. Mankey probably requires the Dig TM more than anything and that's already pretty limiting, however it makes some nice use of it. Great Morty, average Chuck and Jasmine, very solid Pryce, positive Clair, awful Will, bad Koga, average Bruno, solid Karen (would be better if it outsped Houndoom but sadly Primeape only hit 94 Speed at level 42) and a surprisingly good Lance with the elemental punches. Prior to Karen I was thinking that it sadly didn't deserve more than D since it relied too much on DynamicPunch to beat the aces (Jasmine's Steelix, Clair's Kingdra, Bruno's Machamp) due to not getting Cross Chop until level 46, however those last two fights settled any doubt. C fits it just fine.
Magmar (GS) is top A. Anyone who's tried it knows that Magmar is top 5 material, so much that it was S tier at one point in the past alongside Gatr and Fearow (and the undisputed king Alakazam, of course). Perhaps what most defines Magmar is its cost efficiency: since it gets all of Fire Punch, Sunny Day, and Flamethrower by level up, the only moves it needs are ThunderPunch and Headbutt—both really cheap. Magmar starts off great against Morty, beats Chuck, sweeps Jasmine and is unfazed by Pryce. Its first big roadblock is Clair, where it sadly doesn't have a strong enough Return so it fails to 2HKO the Dragonair and is ruined by Kingdra. It picks up in the E4 with great Will and Koga, has an average at best Bruno, a solid Karen and a bad Lance (as all Fire-types) but where it can at least outspeed and 2HKO both Gyarados and Charizard. Not much more to say.
Chinchou is mostly C, might have a shot at B. Lanturn is a very unique mon in that it's a Water-type that doesn't learn any Ice-type moves (only Ice Beam with Crystal tutors but that's postgame). That alone means that it'll struggle in the final boss fight. Slow growth rate is also annoying but that's shared with a bunch of other mid-game Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras or Tentacruel. Chinchou has an average Morty spamming Surf, some very good fights against Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce, a relatively solid Clair since it can 1v1 Kingdra (and unlike other Electric-types, it doesn't get wrecked if it tries to ThunderDance), and very good rival fights as long as you didn't choose Totodile as a starter. The problems start at the E4, where its low speed means that it'll get weakened by repeated hits. Gets at most three KOs against Will, Bruno and Karen, a good Koga fight since it can beat Crobat reliably plus the three bugs, and a not great Lance as expected, where it's generally gonna KO only Gyarados and one of Aerodactyl or Charizard but might beat the three. When compared to the other mid-game Slow Water-types it's clearly better than Cloyster and worse than Starmie and Lapras, and I'd argue worse than Tentacruel since its Speed plus Barrier come in handy lategame. If any of the two should be B it's Tenta I'd say, but Chinchou is definitely not bad—just not great.
Ho-Oh is fine in B. The E4 is pretty solid since its biggest issue is running out of Sacred Fire PP, Will and Koga are sweeps, Bruno it KOs all Hitmon and can beat Machamp if it burns/Rock Slide misses, has a solid Karen beating three or possibly four mons and its Lance performance is better than I expected, defeating Charizard plus the level 50 Dragonite as long as it outspeeds since it can Recover the Hyper Beam damage and 3HKO. It might even get a third KO against Gyara or the Blizzard Dnite but then you'll have to spam Recover (also Twister hitting you for twice the damage as you Fly is disgusting). If you hate yourself and wanna catch it before Clair it also has a winning performance there thanks to Safeguard and its great Special Defense, being a roll to OHKO the Dragonair and a 2HKO on Kingdra with Sharp Beak Fly. Even if Lugia is better I don't think its Lance matchup should be that damning.
On the topic of Tentacruel, has anyone tried catching Tentacool with a Good Rod in the Olivine Harbor? While it's likely to be better to catch level 24 Tentacruel post-Morty you do get to use it for two more important fights this way, and Surf should be good enough to hold you until evolution (which comes just in time for Chuck, unlike Psyduck or Goldeen). After that it does Tentacruel things as usual. Another mon I think could be worth catching at level 20 is Qwilfish, although it comes at the expense of a good matchup against Whitney leveling it up from level 5 with only Poison Sting and Swift/Headbutt sounds disgusting. Just something I thought was worth mentioning.
One thing here. I stated in my OP that the previous thread's contributions were not forgotten, but would be taken in account to this list as well. That was to be fair to those that had spent their own valuable time in getting those results. Now to say how much they have had an impact is a different story, but overall, those in the previous lists have been accounted for when I place the mons. For example, Totodile will always be S in some people's eyes and I respect those opinions. A lot of people here and even in the old list stated A was more suited. After numerous tests as well, it was smacked in A. I'm sorry that you felt that the previous list was disregarded but that was not the case.
Now onto your noms. Thank you for the amount of work you put in here. I'm happy to see that Wrath has a case for B. In my failed test, I had it placed in the B/C range and was gonna try to push for B. Glad to see someone sees it able to function in that tier. Same thing with Pidgey. I plan to retest it to see if it can be put in B at best, C at worst.
Chikorita is pretty much headed to C. I have seen no arguments to B (and if there are, they tend to get overshadowed by C noms). Overall, I agree with these noms.
Hi y'all, I was thinking about commenting for a long time but I figured I'd first finish the run I had stopped playing from the previous thread (basically because I was very unhappy with my team's levels at Clair and felt I had screwed it up).
Even though at first I disliked that the list was started fresh and felt it neglected the contributions we'd made, I do agree that it had some inflation problems that this one attempts to fix. With that in mind, I'd like to link to my previous run to update my noms. I won't be talking about [BAN ME PLEASE] because, well, I don't wanna go down that road. Feel free to compare my run to other ones, though. I'm obviously ignoring the X items used since they're banned here—although they wouldn't change my noms anyway.
Poliwrath (C) is fine in B. It's essentially a discount Totodile that struggles against the first three gyms, has a solid midgame with great Morty and Jasmine performances and exchanges a worse (awful) Will for a better Karen in the E4. Its biggest problem is its low Speed since it means it'll struggle to get more than one kill against Lance without healing (Hypnosis can somewhat make up for it but you have to hit), its most salient point being its ability to live two Outrages from the lv. 50 Dragonite. The reasons for going with B instead of C are its Morty and Karen performances, Medium Slow leveling and access to all Water TMs. Pro tip: if you don't wanna go through its awful pre-Surf period you can catch it at level 20 with a Good Rod in Violet City (not a big detour). You can delay evolving it until after Morty since Poliwhirl outspeeds one more mon and gets the same ranges.
Bellsprout (C) should be C. Three words (or an acronym and two words I guess?): STAB Sludge Bomb. It's the strongest user of the move available and it's what differentiates it from other Grass-types. Bellsprout starts bad since it can't train in the Tower so it's better to catch it post Falkner and train around the Union Cave. Bugsy and Morty are obviously dreadful, Whitney is doable but not very efficient. Bellsprout's biggest draw is being one of the best [BAN ME PLEASE] partners for the Azalea rival since your options are few (you'll still need to put Croconaw to sleep, that thing is borked). Once you get Sludge Bomb the world is brighter. Chuck, Clair, and Bruno are excellent matchups, Pryce is solid even though it's not a clean sweep, Jasmine is bad, Will and Koga are awful, and Karen is good. Yes it sometimes needs to use Sleep Powder which is unreliable but then again it's less reliable to not have it. Sludge Bomb being able to 2HKO Clair's Kingdra, Bruno's Machamp and Karen's Umbreon with poison is just great. The sad thing is lacking a better Grass-type move than Vine Whip since it only 3HKOs Pryce's Piloswine and Will's Slowbro, but at the same time the E4 is horrible for all Grass-types (3/5ths resist the type, plus four of Lance's mons) so Bel's distinction IMO makes it the best one. It's only fair that it shares rank with Chikorita, even though they play out differently (it has better Clair, Bruno, and Karen matchups in exchange for worse Jasmine, Pryce, and Will). I'm interested to see how Vileplume will do since it exchanges a stronger STAB and speed for higher bulk.
Pidgey should be C with a chance of B. It starts well against Falkner and Bugsy but falls off badly at Whitney, having average Morty and Chuck matchups and awful Jasmine and Pryce. After evolution it can beat Clair's Kingdra one-on-one which is nice, but its biggest selling point is its E4 performance. Against Will you can beat three mons, possibly four depending on choice of moves, against Koga it can beat the non-Forretress since Return 2HKOs Muk and Crobat if it hits, and it beats all of Bruno's Fighting-types, including 2HKOing Machamp and living Rock Slide even after two Quick Attacks. Karen was more iffy since Gengar was only 3HKOed by Wing Attack meaning Curse and D-Bond were threats, Umbreon was 3HKOed (alongside OHKOing Murkrow and 2HKOing Vileplume) but Houndoom outsped and 2HKOed. Against Lance it could beat Gyarados and possibly the lv. 50 Dragonite if it derped and used Safeguard but otherwise it 2HKOed. This sounds like perfect C, however what makes me consider B is that I read other runs where Pidgeot outsped and 2HKOed Houndoom and Charizard, if that's more likely than being slower (which is possible since my Pidgeot had 91 Speed, whereas in my current run Magmar had 99 at the same level and they have similar base stat) then those performances become much better. Also even though its midgame is clearly worse than Fearow's I'm not sure it's two-tiers worse, but that's more debatable. Anyway, I recommend using Pidgeot.
Raikou is fine at C. Getting Spark with one Rare Candy is great and ThunderDance is very strong (allowing it to do stuff like beating Houndoom one-on-one, for example), however it's really frail physically and it falls short of a performance redeeming of the annoyance which is to find it/catch it pre-Master Ball (it's up to you to decide if beating Kingdra is worth it). It does relatively well against Lance since it can defeat the three non-Dragonite and only Aero outspeeds but, again, physical moves hurt.
Now onto my run. I used Chikorita, Geodude (no trade), Mankey, Magmar, and Chinchou in Gold. The idea was to train Geodude against NPC until Whitney and then grind in the wild so the others would get more experience, however it turns out two Medium Fast and one Slow mon need A LOT of experience. Even facing optional trainers wasn't enough to get better levels for Clair (however from other testers I gather they didn't do very differently). That was remedied in Victory Road since I didn't want to ruin their performances. Also I decided to catch Ho-Oh because why not, no training required.
WARNING: This is a lot of text, apologies in advance.
Falkner (level 13): Razor Leaf and Tackle both 3HKO Pidgey and 5HKO Pidgeotto, it outspeeds both. Pidgeotto's Gust does 6-7/39 damage with Reflect so if you use it the turn before KOing Pidgey you can win reliably even without crits, they never use Mud-Slap.
Bugsy (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Metapod, guaranteed with a crit. Kakuna is 5HKOed by Tackle after a Harden and has Poison Sting so best to avoid. Even with Reflect and Poisonpowder you're just prolonging the inevitable since Scyther's Fury Cutter will end up KOing you before you can do much back. Bad matchup as expected.
Azalea Town Rival (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Gastly, guaranteed with a crit. Zubat is 4HKOed by Tackle (note that Bayleef doesn't learn Swift) and does 5 damage back with Leech Life. Razor Leaf is around a 6HKO on Quilava while its Ember does 18-19/56, so very close to a 3HKO. Mediocre matchup.
Whitney (level 21 - 22): Headbutt and Razor Leaf both 3HKO Clefairy. Miltank is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf so if you set up Reflect before beating Clefairy you can defeat it. A Gold Berry ensures this, but note that it might not 4HKO Tank without Miracle Seed (PoisonPowder can help). Also depending on the damage from Clefairy it can sometimes not activate right before Reflect ends, which is very troll. Note that my Bayleef is female (I literally realized in this fight) so that helps, obviously.
Clefairy's Metronome once called Fire Spin and then Roar and another time OHKOed my Bayleef from near full health with Present, lmao.
Burned Tower Rival (level 24): Haunter outspeeds and Curses, Razor Leaf barely 4HKOs from full so it can sometimes live two, best to avoid. Zubat is 2HKOed by Headbutt. Magnemite might live three Razor Leafs but doesn't do much back besides annoying you. Tried Mud-Slap for the heck of it, it 2HKOs so not very useful. Quilava is outsped and barely not 3HKOed while Ember also fails to 3HKO from full, however Quick Attack will finish you off. You win 1-on-1 if you flinch, basically.
Morty (level 25): Miracle Seed Razor Leaf 3HKOs Gastly so I think we know where this is going. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs so it dies after Curse. The first Haunter is 3HKOed and can put you to sleep or Curse. Gengar is faster and is like a 6HKO so no point. The second Haunter outspeeds and barely doesn't 3HKO with Night Shade from full (Bayleef has 75 HP) while being 4HKOed back.
Chuck (level 29): Razor Leaf only 4HKOs Primeape but Headbutt 3HKOs reliably. Return is also a 3HKO. Razor Leaf also 3HKOs Poliwrath, who you outspeed and can use Reflect to minimize DynamicPunch's damage. As always, Mint Berry helps in case he puts you to sleep or Bitter Berry to not get screwed over by confusion.
Jasmine (level 30): Razor Leaf is like a 5HKO on Magnemite, pointless. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs and you get para'd. Steelix is around a 5HKO with Razor Leaf and can proc Hyper Potion, also Iron Tail stings without Reflect. Poor matchup.
(level 32): I'm dumb and saved over every single file so I had to sac all my team to Steelix so I could try facing Pryce first. Don't be like me, kids. Razor Leaf now 3HKOs the Magnemite but they still annoy with para. Mud-Slap 2HKOs and can make it miss T-Wave. Steelix is very close to a 3HKO with Razor Leaf so you can potentially beat it with Reflect (since Iron Tail does about a fifth), however an untimely crit can proc Hyper Potion and screw you over. Two consecutive crits kill, obviously, and Mud-Slap can help clinch the KO and avoid Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup all-in-all but winnable.
Pryce (level 31): Seel is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf and can Icy Wind which makes you slower than Dewgong so you should switch out. Dewgong's own Icy Wind + Aurora Beam almost 2HKOs (left me in red and would've killed if Seel had Aurora Beam'd) while Razor Leaf 3HKOs, you can win if you get the para from Body Slam. If you're at full it spams Aurora Beam which 3HKOs so you beat it. Piloswine outspeeds you at -1 and finishes you off. If you're at full you 2HKO while living a Blizzard with 20/92 HP, however it seems to like to Icy Wind which can kill you after the drop. You can beat Seel and one of the other two without healing, not a very good matchup.
(level 32): You still don't OHKO Seel (maybe I have bad DVs? I dunno) but you do 2HKO Dewgong and you can actually live Piloswine's Blizzard from 60/107 HP—albeit with one 1 HP left. Possible sweep without healing, much moreso considering Blizzard will often miss.
Underground Rival (level 32 - 33): Golbat is 3HKOed by Body Slam and confuses, Bitter Berry helps. For some reason it used Leech Life, Wing Attack appears to be a roll to 3HKO (it did 35/107). Quilava and Meganium 3HKO each other with Flame Wheel and Body Slam, you win if you don't get burned since you're faster and can para. You only 3HKO Magnemite with Razor Leaf so it T-Waves you, Mud-Slap 2HKOs. Haunter outspeeds if you're para'd and can Curse while Razor Leaf is only a 3HKO, Mud-Slap doesn't even do that. Sneasel is faster and Screeches but you 2HKO, you win if you're healthy. Basically it struggles to beat both Golbat and Quilava and if it does it'll be too weak to beat Sneasel or Haunter, can beat Magnemite with Mud-Slap. Three mons at best, bad MU.
Clair (level 36 - 37): Body Slam 3HKOs the Dragonair while they can only 5HKO with DragonBreath, however paralysis is annoying. Return is slightly stronger but not even with Pink Bow does it 2HKO. Against Kingdra it's actually a tough matchup, Body Slam and Razor Leaf are only 5HKOs so it'll proc Hyper Potion. At least Reflect means Hyper Beam will barely touch you but DragonBreath can eventually beat you (it's a 4HKO from full). Both Body Slam para or PoisonPowder poison are both helpful since they can't be healed.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Body Slam 2HKOs Sneasel which Screeches and 3HKOs Golbat which does 41/130 with Wing Attack normally, so if you're at -2 you can set up a Reflect on its face and still beat it (it also aids against confusion). Typhlosion appears to be 3/4HKOed but finishes you off (Flame Wheel does 57-66 damage). If you're at full fsr it starts spamming Smokescreen. Magneton seems to be a 5HKO with Razor Leaf, crits can help but you will get para'd. Haunter is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf (2HKOed after Curse) and Kadabra appears to live a Body Slam with a sliver of health but doesn't do anything back. Return helps ensure the 3HKO against Typhlosion and the OHKO against Kadabra but the rest is the same. With Earthquake you 2HKO Typhlosion (you're faster but if you're weakened it can pick you off with Quick Attack) and OHKO Magneton, Haunter, and Kadabra. Meganium outspeeds everything. Very solid matchup with EQ since you KO up to five mons (choose between Typh and Golbat), average otherwise.
Will (level 41): Body Slam 3HKOs Xatu nº 1 which Confuse Rays. Psychic does around 43/137 so Meganium can live three. You can also Light Screen up to take pitiful damage but be careful of SpDef drops. PB Return is a roll to 2HKO. Jynx is 2HKOed and can put you to sleep. Exeggutor seems to be a 5HKO and Reflects so it's unlikely you can beat it. PB Return is close to 3HKOing so you might win 1v1 since Psychic is also a 3HKO but you have Light Screen. Slowbro is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf (3HKOed after Amnesia) and Xatu is 3HKOed. If using SunnyBeam, Slowbro is 2HKOed through Amnesia and so is Jynx. If Jynx doesn't put you to sleep you can get up to four kills but it's gonna be a long fight. Meganium outspeeds everything. Average matchup.
Koga (level 41): Ohh boy. PB Body Slam 3HKOs Ariados and Venomoth and appears to be a 4HKO on Muk before Acid Armor, best to avoid. Can't touch Forretress. Body Slam appears to 4HKO Crobat but it procs healing and Double-Team is annoying. Neither PB Return nor Earthquake seem to 2HKO Ariados, it lives with a sliver of health. Venomoth seems to be a positive roll. Return only 4HKOs Muk but EQ 2HKOs (with Soft Sand it's a roll to 2HKO after Acid Armor), Sludge Bomb 2HKOs back if it uses it. Crobat appears to live three PB Returns and 3HKOs with Wing Attack, even with Reflect up it's a loss since it heals and has DT. Even with Soft Sand EQ can't do anything to Forretress. Meganium outspeeds everything but Crobat. Bad matchup as expected, the only thing you can 2HKO is Muk with EQ so even if you can get three KOs it's not worth it.
Bruno (level 41 - 42): Pink Bow Body Slam 3HKOs Hitmontop which does nothing with Quick Attack, 3HKOs Hitmonchan which can weaken you with Fire Punch and 2HKOs Hitmonlee, living all their hits in low yellow. Machamp seems to be a 6HKO (not counting healing) and Cross Chop is a roll to 2HKO from full, you can Reflect up but it'll crit you eventually. Razor Leaf obviously KOs Onix. Return doesn't make any matchup better outside of 4HKOing Machamp but it'll proc Max Potion so it's the same, really. Its only chance at sweeping is if Lee Swaggers (you need to avoid Chan because otherwise it'll attack) while you're holding a Bitter Berry and using Return, which can then 2HKO Machamp. SunnyBeam 2HKOs all Hitmons and seems to be a bad roll to 2HKO Machamp with MiracleSeed, unfortunately you'll get too weakened even if you set up both screens. Average matchup since you're generally beating everything but Champ and lose the 1v1 even with Reflect, however being able to minisweep with the Swagger boost is fun. Also it can always support its team with screens.
Karen (level 42): PB Return 4HKOs Umbreon on a roll which debuffs you with Sand-Attack and confuses. Vileplume is 3HKOed and can para and heal. Houndoom outspeeds and Flamethrower leaves you in red, Return only 3HKOs back. Earthquake is a 2HKO (also KOs Gengar after Curse) but unless you've set up Light Screen before (and are healthy!) it's a loss. Return 2HKOs Murkrow, Faint Attack does 31/140. MiracleSeed SunnyBeam 3HKOs Umbreon for what it's worth, while generally 2HKOing Murkrow. Gengar is only 3HKOed so Curse will still ruin you. Can beat three mons but it'll struggle against both Umbreon and Vileplume and needs EQ for Gengar, so bad matchup. Btw I simply took off Razor Leaf because what was the point. Gengar and Houndoom outspeed.
Lance (level 42): Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados on a roll which does less than 40% with Hyper Beam after setting up rain. If you use SunnyBeam (not on the first turn) you still only 3HKO. The Blizzard Dnite comes in, Return appears to be a 5HKO and it does 105/140 if it hits, no point in trying to set up Light Screen. Aerodactyl's Wing Attack does exactly 70 damage so it 2HKOs and Razor Leaf is only a 4HKO back (SunnyBeam 2HKOs but only chance to set up is if you lure the Hyper Beam, and even then you'll likely die). Thunder Dragonite is a bit better than its sibling since it can only threaten you with Hyper Beam and you have Reflect, although para and only 5HKOing is bad. Charizard almost OHKOs and appears to be a 3HKO, can't say for certain. Lv. 50 Dragonite does 45% with Outrage while you 5HKO. You can possibly do well with Light Screen since it'll get confused but since it'll proc healing I doubt you can beat it. Only Aero and Charizard outspeed but since it's at most KOing Gyara and the Thunder Nite (and that's a stretch imo) it's a bad matchup.
Falkner (level 11 - 12): Rock Throw OHKOs Pidgey if it hits, Pidgeotto can live in red at level 11. Mud-Slap from Pidgey does 3 damage and Pidgeotto's does 5 (3 after a Defense Curl) so you can lose even with a Berry if you miss too much.
Bugsy (level 18 - 19): Hit three Rock Throws = GG. Metapod can sometimes live after a Harden but other than that it's three KOs, nothing new here.
Azalea Town Rival (level 19): Hard Stone Rock Throw OHKOs every one of Silver's mons. Any order of Magnitude will OHKO Gastly and 7 and above will defeat Quilava, so the only thing of worry is Zubat's Bite flinching (particularly if you got para'd) or a burn from Quilava, which does 7/48 with Ember. Excellent matchup.
Whitney (level 21 - 22): Fought as few trainers as possible so as to not overlevel while getting the Rollout TM. You 2HKO Clefairy with Rock Throw. Miltank's Stomp stings so you might want to get a Defense Curl before. Needs Magnitude 7 or higher to 3HKO the cow. With CurlOut, you 2HKO Clef and OHKO Miltank on the third hit if you don't get flinched. Be careful of Metronome, otherwise this is a solid matchup.
Interestingly, even though Geodude was male Miltank only used Attract when I had a Reflect up, not with a Defense Curl.
Burned Tower Rival (level 22): Haunter Curses so any order of Magnitude KOs. Zubat dies to Rock Throw and Magnemite to Magnitude, both outspeed and can confuse so watch out. Quilava can live a Rock Throw or Magnitudes lower than 7, however it only threatens you with burns.
Morty (level 24 - 25): Tried it as Geodude first. Gastly outspeeds and Curses before dying. Haunter can Hypnosis or Night Shade and drops to a Magnitude 6 or higher. Gengar for some reason prefers Mean Look over Shadow Ball and is OHKOed by Magnitude 7 or higher. If you still have the Mint Berry intact you can KO no problem. The second Haunter also dies to Magnitude 6. Good matchup even before evolving.
(level 25): You're still slower than Gastly which Curses. Haunter nº 1 now drops to Magnitude 5 too. Then for some reason comes Haunte nº 2, which can live a Magnitude 5 and Night Shade. Even after taking two Night Shades (and being at 19 HP) Gengar doesn't Shadow Ball, apparently it only does when it's super effective. It still lives the Magnitude 6 so the only difference with Geodude is the first Haunter.
Chuck (level 29): Two Magnitudes 7 or higher 2HKO Primeape who likes to Leer or Rage, Karate Chop 3HKOs. Lol Poliwrath.
(level 29): Magnitude obviously KOs the Mags, Supersonic is annoying tho so you might want to give it a Bitter Berry. Steelix is outsped and 4HKOed by Magnitude 7 (3HKO with 8) and Iron Tail OHKOs back, bad matchup I'd say. At least you outspeed the steel snake.
Pryce (level 29): Seel is a speedtie, you need Magnitude 9 to OHKO it so you're most likely getting hit. Piloswine comes in and outspeeds and OHKOs with Blizzard, you don't even 2HKO back. Against Dewgong they 2HKO each other but it wins because it's faster.
Underground Rival (level 29 - 30): Just for the hell of it. Rock Throw only 2HKOs Golbat and Bite stings, doing about a quarter. Magnemite's SonicBoom also does around a quarter. Sneasel's Faint Attack also does around a quarter so it can KO you if it hits it twice, Rock Throw doesn't OHKO. You barely live Quilava's Flame Wheel after all that damage and KO with Magnitude 7. With Rollout (and Bitter Berry) you 2HKO Golbat, then OHKO Sneasel, then OHKO Magnemite (level up here), then OHKO Haunter which Mean Looks fsr. Quilava's Flame Wheel is a roll to KO at that point and dies to Magnitude. Being slower than even Magnemite is annoying when you're hitting everything for super effective damage.
Clair (level 33): Lol no. Didn't try it against the Tbolt Dragonair but even at a higher level it'll take a lot from Twister—also it's hard to know if it's Tbolt or not when it comes in).
Victory Road Rival (level 39 - 40): Rock Throw OHKOs Sneasel which likes to Fury Cutter. Strength KOs Kadabra as it Future Sights which will do 42/107. Magnitude KOs Haunter which might Curse you, in which case you need an order of 8 or higher to OHKO Typhlosion (or use Earthquake), Flame Wheel does 24 damage back. Magneton Sonicbooms and dies. Golbat lives a Rock Throw and either confuses or Bites you for 19 damage. Everything outspeeds you so it's hard to sweep without luck, but still a solid matchup.
Will (level 41): Xatu's Psychic 2HKOs while Rock Throw 2HKOs back, you need it to use Confuse Ray and hold a Berry to win. Avoid Exeggutor. Slowbro is 3HKOed by Earthquake but finishes you off with Psychic. If you're at full it likes to set up so you can win that exchange. Jynx OHKOs with Ice Punch. Xatu n° 2 is like n° 1. You only outspeed Slowbro and are unlikely to beat more than one mon, but if you defeated the first Xatu without taking damage you can potentially beat Slowbro too (and you can always boom if you're into that). Bad matchup of course.
Koga (level 41): Rock Throw 2HKOs Ariados which leaves you in red with Giga Drain but generally Double-Teams. Earthquake 3HKOs Forretress which is cool, it's a speedtie tho so it can do over half with boom. Hard Stone Rock Throw 2HKOs Crobat and doesn't always proc healing, evasion is annoying of course. Without Hard Stone it's a favorable roll. Needs Soft Sand to OHKO Muk with Earthquake, it's faster so it can Minimize or Acid Armor on you. Venomoth is 2HKOed but between confusion and Psychic doing 42/110 it can win so might wanna avoid. Great matchup I'd say, only outspeeding Ariados and Forretress is annoying but luckily Muk and Crobat can barely harm you so you should get four kills easily.
Bruno (level 41): OHKOs Hitmontop with Earthquake as it Digs. It can live a Hi Jump Kick in low yellow, Soft Sand EQ appears to be a good roll to OHKO. For some reason Lee uses Foresight sometimes? So if that happens you can beat it unharmed. Graveler also lives two Ice Punches from Hitmonchan at full. Onix doesn't EQ if you're healthy and instead Binds, it does live an EQ of your own at full tho (at 42 it's still not guaranteed). Its own does a bit less than half. Machamp outspeeds and OHKOS. Will generally only beat two mons, might be three if Lee screws up (you can use a Bitter Berry for Swagger). Bad matchup obviously since you're slower than everything, but could be worse.
Karen (level 41): Earthquake 3HKOs Umbreon which outspeeds. Vileplume OHKOs with Petal Dance, avoid. Gengar is OHKOed but it always used Curse. Houndoom leaves you in red and is OHKOed. Hard Stone Rock Throw is a roll to OHKO (guaranteed at level 42), Faint Attack does 46/110. You're generally only gonna be beating two (Gengar + one of Murkrow or Houndoom), however when you're at full the AI fsr uses Roar/Whirlwind so there's a chance you beat three. Meh matchup although 1v1ing Houndoom is always cool.
Lance (level 41): Avoid Gyarados. Aero is 2HKOed by Rock Throw and Hyper Beam does 25/110, so less than a quarter. If it AncientPowers first and then HB you'll have taken 40 damage from that exchange, great as long as you don't miss. Avoid Blizzard Dnite. Charizard's Flamethrower does 50/110 and you OHKO back, meaning you can very well beat both it and Aero without healing. Thunder Dnite 3HKOs with Twister and is 3HKOed back. Lv. 50 Dragonite is also 3HKOed but Outrage is almost an OHKO. You'll only beat Aero and Charizard so it's far from a great matchup but it's still better than most can say (also it funnily goes well with elemental punches Primeape). I honestly expected Charizard's Flamethrower to do more, I'm disappointed.
If you use Rollout against Aerodactyl you still 2HKO, then the Blizzard Dragonite comes in. If it misses it's a roll to KO (achieved at level 42), then sometimes the Thunder Dnite will switch in and you can tank a Twister and KO it with enough health to survive a Flamethrower from Charizard. Even if it requires a lot of luck, being able to KO four mons is impressive
Burned Tower Rival (level 22): Can't touch Haunter without Dig, it outspeeds and generally Licks while you 2HKO (OHKO after Curse). Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed by Headbutt. Quilava outspeeds and does a lot with Ember while being 2HKOed back with Dig (anything else fails to). I was left in red after all the damage. Magnemite is KOed with Karate Chop, it might live with 1 HP if you're at level 22.
Morty (level 25 - 26): Dig OHKOs Gastly and the first Haunter which is a speedtie. Gengar outspeeds and might Mean Look or Hypnosis, a Mint Berry helps since he has to hit it twice as you 2HKO. After leveling up you OHKO the second Haunter, at 25 you're outsped and it lives so it can Night Shade. Dig is obviously required to actually hurt the Ghosts but solid matchup, I'd say.
Chuck (level 29): You 2HKO opposing Primeape with BlackBelt Karate Chop. Poliwrath seems to be a 4HKO and can put you to sleep or 2HKO with DynamicPunch (you barely live at -1) so you need a lot of luck to win. Since Return is still weak I tried Pink Bow Strength and it's also a 4HKO so same deal.
Jasmine (level 29): Karate Chop OHKOs both Magnemite, however it only 5HKOs Steelix which brings you to low yellow with Iron Tail. Black Belt DynamicPunch isn't quite a 2HKO but it becomes one after a self-hit, obviously you need to be very lucky. I also tried Fire Punch, it's a 3HKO so it procs Hyper Potion but it can burn to soften up the Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup, KOing the Magnemite isn't that great.
Pryce (level 30): Any physical move 2HKOs Seel, Headbutt is best because of flinch. Karate Chop puts Dewgong in low yellow/red health while Aurora Beam does 20/90 damage, doesn't even 2HKO with crits lol. Piloswine is 2HKOed, sometimes it procs Hyper Potion and sometimes it doesn't. For some reason it spams Mist, but even if it Blizzards it only does 40 damage. Fantastic matchup. DynamicPunch obviously OHKOs everything but I'd rather try to crit Karate Chop thrice than use it.
Underground Rival (level 31 - 32): Headbutt 3HKOs Golbat which 2HKOs with Wing Attack but generally uses Confuse Ray first (Bitter Berry can help). Strength is still a 3HKO. Haunter is OHKOed on a roll by Dig after leveling up (at 31 it barely lives), you can't touch it otherwise. Karate Chop is barely not a 2HKO on Quilava but it + Dig is. Flame Wheel does 27/97, so over a quarter. BlackBelt DynamicPunch still doesn't OHKO. Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed, Sneasel's Quick Attack can put you in red after a Wing Attack and a Flame Wheel. Good matchup outside of Golbat.
Clair (level 36): Seismic Toss and Karate Chop 3HKO Dragonair which T-Waves back. Strength comes close to 2HKO but needs Pink Bow, Return is weaker. BlackBelt DynamicPunch leaves it in red so it can die to confusion. Kingdra is 4HKOed by Seismic Toss or Karate Chop and 2HKOs back with Surf. DynamicPunch just barely 2HKOs. If you connect all 5 D-Punches you can actually sweep, but we know that's super unlikely (3,125% chance, not even counting that the Nair can live and paralize you) so I'd say this is not a good matchup but not bad either, you can at least beat a couple Nairs.
Victory Road Rival (level 39 - 40): Karate Chop OHKOes Sneasel. Pink Bow Strength appears to be an unfavorable roll to 2HKO Golbat, I always left it in red. Golbat generally uses Confuse Ray while Wing Attack does 55/117, so a bit less than half. PB Return improves the odds. Strength OHKOs Kadabra and Dig OHKOs Haunter (and you avoid Curse) and 2HKOs Typhlosion after leveling up while it does 36 damage with Flame Wheel. At 39 it's a roll to 2HKO but since you're 3HKOed you win if you're healthy. Karate Chop doesn't OHKO Magneton so you need to Dig again. Primeape outspeeds everything. Solid matchup with Dig, only iffy one is Golbat due to confusion.
Will (level 41): Pink Bow Return 2HKOs (might be a roll) Xatu nº 1 and it likes to Confuse Ray. Psychic leaves Primeape in red and then Quick Attack finishes it off. You need either a crit Karate Chop or to hit DynamicPunch to KO Jynx which OHKOs back. You also need to break through confusion if you don't have Bitter Berry. Exeggutor seems to be a 3HKO (it KOs back), Slowbro a 4HKO but it spams Curse and Xatu nº 2 a 3HKO. ThunderPunch is a 3HKO on Slowbro so you can beat it as it Curses and NMI Ice Punch seems to 2HKO Exeggutor but it destroys you. You can live a Psychic from anything but Jynx and Exeggutor, if you're lucky you can get two kills, maybe three with ThunderPunch. Primeape outspeeds everything. Awful matchup.
Koga level 41): PB Return only 3HKOs Ariados, same as Seismic Toss funnily. It could be a bad roll to 2HKO but since Ariados likes to Giga Drain I never got it. It's a 2HKO on Venomoth luckily, most of the time. Veno spams Toxic generally but Psychic is a 2HKO. Crobat seems to be a 4HKO but between DT, Wing Attack 2HKOing and healing there's no point. Forretress sadly lives three Seismic Tosses at level 41 with 1 HP so you need a Rare Candy to beat it. Swift doesn't hurt you really but you risk the boom. PB Return 3HKOs Muk and it generally doesn't Acid Armor, choosing to Minimize first and either Toxic or 2HKO with Sludge Bomb (it does around 60/123 so it's a roll from full), so if you hit the Returns you can win. Charcoal Fire Punch 2HKOs Ariados, is a bad roll to 2HKO Venomoth and OHKOs Forretress, Ice Punch 3HKOs Crobat but it beats you anyway. Pink Bow appears to be necessary to 3HKO Muk (you can technically Dig the first time but the more turns you waste the higher the odds of Acid Armor), since Forry likes to Spike I'd say PB is the better item. Primeape outspeeds everything but Crobat. Not exactly a solid matchup but you can beat up to four mons with Fire Punch.
Bruno (level 41): Return 3HKOs Hitmontop, you can beat it unscathed if you Dig on its Dig. Hitmonlee is 2HKOed but does over half with Hi Jump Kick. Hitmonchan lives two PB Returns on a roll and can beat you with Mach Punch after you've been weakened. It can also live a Return after Swagger. Seismic Toss 3HKOs all Hitmon. Machamp is a loss even from full since you only 4HKO and Cross Chop 2HKOs you. Karate Chop doesn't quite 2HKO Onix. With Black Belt DynamicPunch you put Hitmontop in low yellow, OHKO Lee, leave Chan in red (so it's a 50% chance that you'll only be hit with one Mach Punch) and does just over half to Machamp. If you hit all five you win a fridge. Average matchup I'd say, it takes too much damage from Lee + Chan so it's hard to beat more than three. Nothing outspeeds Primeape.
Karen (level 41 - 42): Black Belt Karate Chop 3HKOs Umbreon which Sand-Attacks and confuses, you can 2HKO with a crit so nb. Return 3HKOs Vileplume which paras and does about 45% with Petal Dance, avoid. Dig 2HKOs Gengar or OHKOs after Curse, you're slower tho so be careful of Destiny Bond (it mostly Cursed so I never saw it). Both Karate Chop and Return 2HKO Murkrow which does nothing with Faint Attack. BB Karate Chop leaves Houndoom in low yellow/red which does a ton with Flamethrower and is also faster. Since it procs Max Potion you have higher chances to crit but that's about it. DynamicPunch almost OHKOs Umbreon, leaving it in red. Ice Punch 3HKOs Vileplume and 2HKOs Murkrow, same as Return. DynamicPunch OHKOs Murkrow and Houndoom. Clearly can't sweep without healing and it's best to avoid both Vileplume and Gengar, however only needing to hit two DynamicPunches to beat the toughest mons (or one and critting Karate Chop, but that's less likely) means the matchup is positive. It's annoying that you don't outspeed Houndoom at level 42, however.
Lance (level 42): Pink Bow Return 3HKOs Gyarados which does 65% back with Hyper Beam after setting up rain. Aerodactyl then picks you off. ThunderPunch 2HKOs Gyara so you can beat it unscathed, unfortunately it only 3HKOs Aero which outspeeds and 2HKOs with Wing Attack. Avoid. Ice Punch 2HKOs lv. 47 Dragonite which T-Wave and then Hyper Beam, putting you in red/low yellow. Charizard outspeeds and 2HKOs while being 3HKOed, much like Aero. Lv. 50 Dragonite is 2HKOed (!) and likes to go for Safeguard, you can barely live a Hyper Beam so you win at full. If you run PrzcureBerry you can actually KO up to three mons including the boss, which is pretty remarkable considering it's a Primeape. I'll call this a positive matchup as long as you use the elemental punches. Color me impressed, Koko.
Burned Tower Rival (level 21): Surf is a roll to 2HKO Haunter so you might kill after Curse, you might not. Magnemite is outsped and 2HKOed, still might want to switch out to avoid Curse damage. Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed, watch out for confusion. Quilava outspeeds and can't do much while being 2HKOed back. Basically Surf 2HKOs everything except Haunter sometimes.
Morty (level 24): Gastly drops to Surf, Haunter is faster and can Curse or Hypnosis as you 2HKO. Gengar is barely 3HKOed so you need it to miss a couple of Hypnosis, you can always T-Wave it first. Doable but needs luck. The second Haunter is 2HKOed while Chinchou lives three Night Shades from full. Positive matchup since it can definitely beat the three non-Gengar.
Chuck (level 29): Surf 2HKOs, while Magnet Spark + Surf comes very close to so you might be able to outspeed the second turn and KO. If it uses Leer you should switch out because DynamicPunch will sting (it does around 50/114 otherwise). You outspeed Wrath and it barely lives two Magnet Sparks so you might as well use a Mint Berry for sleep. Good matchup, I'd say.
Jasmine (level 29 - 30): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf, however Steelix uses Sunny Day and can proc Hyper Potion so it becomes a 3HKO. Rock Throw does 20/118 back, so 1/6. Best way to do it is setting up rain on the first Mag and then OHKOing everything, a paralysis berry is recommended. Great matchup outside of parahax.
Pryce (level 30 - 31): Seel lives the Magnet Spark (I'm starting to see a trend here), then Piloswine comes and tanks the Surf but doesn't do much back with Fury Attack, you'll need to hit it thrice because of Hyper Potion. It's a roll with MysticWater. Dewgong does even less than against Magmar and is 2HKOed after leveling up, otherwise it's a 3HKO. I finished in high green, excellent matchup.
Underground Rival
(level 32 - 33): Sadly I couldn't get the Thunder TM because the casino is blocked. Golbat outspeeds and can confuse or attempt to flinch with Bite, which does 14/126 or 1/9th. Spark 2HKOs and you can outspeed after the para. Magnemite is swept away by Surf. Haunter can only Curse as it's otherwise 2HKOed. Sneasel is 3HKOed by two Sparks + Surf, it can't do much damage but you might need to switch out if you were Cursed. Quilava can't touch you and is OHKOed. It only outspeeds Magnemite but it's so fat that it's a solid matchup, only annoying things are confusion and Curse.
Clair (level 36): Surf is like a 5HKO on Dragonair, with rain it becomes a 3HKO. Apparently it's a speedtie which is annoying, they can't do much back besides para you tho. Kingdra is like 5HKOed by Magnet Spark and it'll likely proc Hyper Potion, meanwhile Hyper Beam does around 45%. DragonBreath does 40/142 so about 28.5%. With the Thunder TM you do 40% min and are able to avoid misses from Smokescreen, however DragonBreath para is annoying. Possibly the best way to beat it is by paralyzing it first turn and then setting up rain and beating it as it has to recharge from Hyper Beam (be careful of rain-boosted Surf which almost 3HKOs). Not a particularly exciting matchup but can beat the ace one-on-one.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf. Sneasel dies to Spark + Surf so you can fish for para, worst thing it can do is Screech + Quick Attack which does around 24/153, it'll generally Fury Cutter tho. Magneton can T-Wave you, Haunter Curses or Confuse Rays, Kadabra Future Sights which does actually respectable 34 damage, Typhlosion Smokescreens and Golbat Confuse Rays or Bites, meaning a lot of hax is involved so it's hard to sweep even if they can't directly hurt you. Best strategy is to set up rain and OHKO Sneasel, Magneton and Haunter and reset it against Kadabra (you'll have to switch out if Cursed) so you can KO Typhlosion and Golbat with Thunder. Lanturn only outspeeds Magneton. Positive matchup with rain, still annoying. In its best performance I finished in high yellow.
Will (level 41): Magnet Spark leaves Xatu in red, it generally confuses so Bitter Berry might be a better option. Psychic does around 55/163 so it's close to a 3HKO. With a Berry and a para from Spark you might walk out unharmed. Switch out against Exeggutor. Slowbro is 2HKOed by Spark, 3HKOed after Amnesia. Jynx is only 3HKOed by Surf and can put you to sleep so don't bother. Xatu nº 2 is essentially the same as the first one. Since Psychic 3HKOs it's hard to beat more than two, you basically need para or confusion luck. You can also use Thunder outside of rain if you want (since it's more likely to hit than Spark to para). It OHKOs both Xatu and leaves Slowbro in red (with Magnet it can OHKO). Since you only need it to hit twice I'd say it's a good alternative. Lanturn only outspeeds Slowbro and Exeggutor. Not what I'd call a good matchup but you can beat all Electric-weaks.
Koga (level 41): MW Surf 2HKOs Ariados as it uses Double Team, Forretress which Spikes and 3HKOs Venomoth which can Toxic you or confuse you (Surf + Thunder 2HKOs if you wanna risk that). Muk is only 4HKOed and can Toxic or Minimize. Spark doesn't seem to 2HKO Crobat without Magnet. Rain-boosted MW Surf fails to OHKO Ariados and Forretress (does 2HKO Venomoth and 3HKO Muk) so it might be better to use Magnet after all. Venomoth's Psychic does 38/163 and Muk's Sludge Bomb does 64/163. Without MysticWater Surf doesn't 2HKO Forretress but you can always use Surf + Thunder (also 2HKOs Venomoth). Magnet Thunder in rain 3HKOs Muk not minding Minimize and OHKOs Crobat on a roll (note that I leveled up after beating Muk, it might fail to KO otherwise), so you can potentially set up rain against Muk and beat both since they don't like to attack often. Only Crobat and Venomoth outspeed. Very good matchup since even if it can't always sweep it can beat the two big ones or one plus the other three.
Bruno (level 41 - 42): MW Surf 3HKOs Hitmontop, if you set up rain as it Digs you KO the following turn. Dig does 47-50/163, so over 25%. Hitmonlee comes in and threatens to 2HKO you with Hi Jump Kick (does 65 damage), your only way of beating it is if it doesn't use it or if you para with Thunder. Hitmonchan does 26 damage with each Mach Punch so it's hard to realistically beat all three Hitmon without healing, if you para'd Lee you can potentially live the two Machs but the damage comes dangerously close to 100%. Note that without MysticWater Surf + rain-boosted Surf becomes a bad roll. Onix is obviously OHKOed by Surf, but do note that at level 41 it appeared to be a speedtie. If it only happened to me then it might've been the DVs. Machamp is generally a no, Cross Chop 2HKOs from full and Rain-boosted Surf barely 2HKOs. There's a chance since it'll miss a CC 36% of the time, of course. I wanna say meh to bad matchup, it'll most likely beat three mons without healing and they're the easiest ones. Also Dig does a ton, like wtf.
Karen (level 41 - 42): Three Magnet Thunders in rain don't quite KO Umbreon so you need to use Surf. Avoid Vileplume. Houndoom is 2HKOed by Surf and does around 40% with Crunch. MW Surf 3HKOs Gengar so it doesn't kill after Curse, best to avoid. Murkrow appears to live a Spark so you need to use Thunder, Faint Attack does around 39/167 back. Bad matchup generally, although if it can set up rain on Murkrow it can KO it, Houndoom and Gengar after Curse. Setting up on Gengar is also possible but you'll take damage from Curse. You only outspeed Umbreon and Vileplume which you wanna avoid.
Lance (level 42): Fsr Gyarados spams Flail, Magnet Spark doesn't quite KO so you need to hit Thunder or set up your own rain. If it Hyper Beams it does 81/167, a bit less than half. Lv. 47 Dragonite paras while you 3HKO with Thunder. Its Hyper Beam does over 60%. You'll be lucky if you beat one since you need to have rain set up. Both Aero and Charizard are 2HKOed by Surf (needs Mystic Water to OHKO in rain), Magnet Thunder is a roll to OHKO Aero but not Charizard so you probably won't be beating both unless they come in a row. The strategy would be: tank a Hyper Beam from Aero that will put you at around half, set up rain and KO on the recharge turn, and then tank Charizard's HB (which does around 60 damage, so less than 40%) and KO back. You should be able to live those two attacks + Gyarados's Flail, but if Aero doesn't Hyper Beam the strategy will fail. If you can beat all three non-Dnite I'll call this a positive matchup but otherwise it's pretty meh, no Ice-type moves sucks.
Morty (level 24 - 25): Fire Punch KOs Gastly and, after leveling up, the first Haunter. Gengar is outsped (I'm 59 Speed) and 2HKOed so its only hope is to hit a Hypnosis. Mint Berry takes care of that. Haunter can live if you're not Charcoal and do some damage with Night Shade before dropping. Note that Gengar outspeeds and lives two Fire Punches if you're at level 24.
Chuck (level 29): Fire Punch 2HKOs Primeape ez pz, worst it can do is Leer. Magnet ThunderPunch appears to be a bad roll to 2HKO Poliwrath and it likes to use Mind Reader for some reason instead of Surf. DynamicPunch OHKOs at -1, other than that I call this a solid matchup since AI is bad.
Jasmine (level 30): Ember or Fire Punch OHKOs the Magnemite. Steelix lives the FP in low red and does around 50/84 with Rock Throw. Not perfect matchup since it dies to a crit but pretty solid as expected.
Pryce (level 30): ThunderPunch doesn't OHKO Seel and is a roll to 2HKO Dewgong (guaranteed with Magnet), however since you take no damage it's fine. Piloswine can live the Fire Punch if you don't have Charcoal but doesn't do anything back. Excellent matchup.
Underground Rival Golbat is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, Wing Attack does 30% back (funnily, Headbutt flinch into TPunch also 2HKOs). Haunter surprisingly lives a Fire Punch and can Curse you or waste a turn with Mean Look. Quilava is 3HKOed by Headbutt and ThunderPunch (Return is weaker but Pink Bow Strength 2HKOs) and Flame Wheel does little. Sneasel and Magnemite are OHKOed, Quick Attack does 1/7th. Not a perfect matchup but all-around great.
Clair (level 36): Its strongest move against Dragonair is Pink Bow Strength (Return is still weaker) and it's a roll to 2HKO, meanwhile Surf 2HKOs back. If you use Sunny Day Fire Punch is a 3HKO but it causes Nair to spam T-Wave and Slam. Then Kingdra comes in and OHKOs with Surf while you 4HKO. I guess you can use DynamicPunch if you're into that. It 2HKOs the Nair and appears to 3HKO Kingdra with a BlackBelt (clinches with confusion), however it can proc Hyper Potion so you'll run out of PP. One thing to mention is that if you set up sun before Kingdra comes in it'll prioritize Smokescreen or DragonBreath instead of just Surfing twice, however DragonBreath + Hyper Beam 2HKOs. Awful matchup as expected, can only win with hax.
Victory Road Rival (level 39): Sneasel dies to Fire Punch, Golbat is 2HKOed by Thunder Punch and does 30/108 with Wing Attack, Haunter lives Fire Punch in red and can Curse or Confuse Ray, Kadabra is 2HKOed and Future Sights, Tpyhlosion seems to be a 4HKO with Thunder Punch and Magneton is obviously OHKOed. Setting up sun on Sneasel is risky because of Screech (and Magmar is already very frail physically) but sun-boosted Fire Punch leaves Golbat in red and OHKOs Haunter and Kadabra. With Return you OHKO Kadabra and 3HKO Typhlosion. Magmar outspeeds everything. It's not easy to get a full sweep but you should take out five mons (one of Typh and Golbat, as always) reliably.
Will (level 41): ThunderPunch leaves both Xatu in low red and they can confuse you, Magmar lives two Psychics from full. Exeggutor drops in one hit from Fire Punch but Jynx appears to survive it so it can put you to sleep or do half back. Flamethrower kills it obviously. Slowbro is 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, 3HKO after Amnesia. Sun-boosted Fire Punch doesn't OHKO Xatu but Flamethrower does, with a Bitter Berry you can beat it unscathed. The problem is that Slowbro comes next so sun will have run out when the second Xatu comes in. You can live two Psychics from Slowbro and Xatu but then Xatu's Quick Attack finishes you off, it might spam Confuse Ray tho. Hard to sweep since Magmar is so frail but should beat four easily. You outspeed everything. Very good matchup.
Koga (level 41 - 42): Fire Punch OHKOs Ariados and Forretress. Muk seems to be a positive roll to 3HKO and it generally Minimizes so you can beat it while taking around half from Sludge Bomb (Flamethrower ensures this). ThunderPunch 2HKOs Crobat and Fire Punch OHKOs Ariados. You can generally beat Sludge Bomb + Wing Attack as long as you're not poisoned. If you set up Sunny Day on Forretress as it Protects you can easily 2HKO Muk and leave Crobat in low yellow. Only Crobat outspeeds. Excellent matchup I'd say.
Bruno (level 42 - 43): Fire Punch 3HKOs Hitmontop which does a bit less than half with Dig, if you set up sun as it's underground you KO it the following turn. Flamethrower also 2HKOs. Onix comes in and it's a good roll to OHKO with Flamethrower after leveling up. Machamp lives a hit and finishes you off so best to avoid it. If you attempt to 1v1 it you can barely live a Cross Chop from full and don't quite 2HKO with Charcoal Flamethrower. Depending on how much prior damage you've taken Hitmonlee will decide to attack you or Swagger, in which case you can 2HKO it and Hitmonchan as long as you don't get confused. Otherwise Chan's Mach Punch will KO you. Nothing outspeeds you. Meh matchup, can beat up to three mons but its Defense is too low so it isn't reliable.
Karen (level 42 - 43): Flamethrower 3HKOs Umbreon, Sun-boosted is a 2HKO. DynamicPunch is a 2HKO and if it hits itself it's almost in range of Flamethrower. Gengar is OHKOed after Curse, if it Licks it's a 2HKO or a OHKO on rolls in sun. Both ThunderPunch and Sun-boosted Flamethrower OHKO Murkrow. Magmar outspeeds Houndoom and can 3HKO with Return or OHKO with DynamicPunch, Crunch 2HKOs back. Fire Punch doesn't OHKO Vileplume, Flamethrower does. Can easily beat three mons and likely four so it's a solid matchup once again. Outspeeding Houndoom even at level 42 is particularly cool.
Lance (level 42 - 43): Magnet ThunderPunch almost OHKOs Gyarados which sets up rain. Aerodactyl almost OHKOs back with Rock Slide while being 2HKOed. Return only 4HKOs the lv. 47 Dragonite, even with a Pink Bow. Hyper Beam puts you in red. Magnet ThunderPunch 2HKOs Charizard while you tank its Hyper Beam just fine, and you outspeed even at level 42. This is basically the same performance as Typhlosion's so not much else to say, bad matchup as expected.
Clair (level 40): Shark Beak Fly almost OHKOs the Dragonair, you have Safeguard to prevent T-Wave. Surf/Tbolt do around 30/142 HP and you can Recover the damage if need be. Kingdra is 2HKOed by Fly and its Surf does around half. Excellent matchup, really its biggest issue is catching it before the Master Ball.
I didn't face the rival because I needed my HM slave.
Will (level 40): Both Sacred Fire and Fly 2HKO Xatu, you can use Safeguard to prevent confusion. Fly appears to 3HKO Slowbro but it Curses so it's best to avoid it. Fly doesn't quite KO Exeggutor but it does KO Jynx, Sacred Fire also beats both. Spell Tag Shadow Ball OHKO both Xatu and 2HKO Slowbro even after Curse. Just for the lols, sun-boosted Sacred Fire OHKOs both Xatu but Slowbro lives! a SolarBeam. Ho-Oh outspeeds everything. Excellent matchup as expected, only Slowbro is annoying if your best move for it is Fly.
Koga (level 40): Sacred Fire OHKOs Ariados and 3HKOs Muk, a burn can help turn it into a 2HKO. Sharp Beak Fly doesn't 2HKO and Minimize + Acid Armor makes it less useful. Crobat is also 2HKOed with a burn. You'll have to use Fly at a point otherwise you'll run out of PP before Forretress. Fly OHKOs Venomoth. Earthquake leaves Muk in red. Only Crobat outspeeds. Great matchup, the biggest issue is running out of Sacred Fire PP so you might want to avoid one of Crobat/Muk due to evasion.
Bruno (level 40): Sacred Fire 2HKOs Hitmontop, don't use Fly as it'll Detect. It also 2HKOs Onix so you can beat it if you burn. Chan and Lee are OHKOed by Fly but Machamp lives one and OHKOs with Rock Slide. If you burn it with Sacred Fire you can live and win even if it procs healing. Since Fly does so much. Solid matchup, can clean the three Hitmon and one of Onix or Machamp 50% of the time if you account for misses. At level 42 Fly still doesn't guarantee the KO on Champ so best strategy is to burn it.
Karen (level 40): Umbreon is 3HKOed by both Sacred Fire and Sharp Beak Fly. Gengar outspeeds and Curses, it's otherwise 2HKOed. At level 40 Murkrow lives both attacks but doesn't do much back. Houndoom outspeeds and does 37/142, so about 25%, while being 2HKOed by Fly. Vileplume appears to be a roll to OHKO. Even at level 42 you're not OHKOing Murkrow. Needs Earthquake to KO both Gengar and Houndoom (the latter is a roll), otherwise it's best to just switch out of Gengar since without Curse it can beat Houndoom 1v1. Sun-boosted Charcoal Sacred Fire 2HKOs Umbreon at level 41 but doesn't OHKO Gengar. It does KO Murkrow, tho. I'd say best course of action is switching out of Gengar since you can tank special hits easily but between Sand-Attack and Curse you won't be able to beat Houndoom, other than that this performs as a worse Magmar.
Lance (level 40): Sharp Beak Fly is a 2HKO on rolls on Gyarados which does 81/142 with rain Surf. Thunder Dragonite does 71 damage, so half. Fly is a 3HKO but remember that Thunder can hit you mid-air. Avoid. Blizzard Dnite does 83 damage with Hyper Beam. You can beat it 1v1 since you can Recover on the recharge turn and have Safeguard in case of paralysis, although it's not super reliable since Twister does double the damage mid-air. Avoid Aerodactyl. Charizard does 54 damage with Hyper Beam, Fly seems to be a roll to 2HKO. Lv. 50 Dragonite outspeeds you at level 40 but not at 41. Its Hyper Beam does around 100 damage and Outrage 58 while you 3HKO. It's a win most of the time with healing since it likes to waste turns using Safeguard. It can beat any of Gyarados/BlizzNite/Charizard/Lv. 50 Nite but it'll realistically only beat two, three at most with recover spam. I guess being able to beat the ace means it's not really a bad matchup but Fly is the opposite of efficiency and I hate how they can hit you in the air.
Chikorita is C. We all know what it does: it's a support mon first and foremost, and that makes it have a harder time sweeping than offensive threats. That's not to say its attacking stats are bad, however, the problem is its lack of powerful moves and generally bad offensive typing. Chikorita can beat Falkner, Whitney generally, Chuck, Jasmine's Steelix and Pryce as Meganium, does relatively well against Clair's Kingdra although it can lose, has an average Will and a positive Bruno (especially if you avoid Hitmonchan and get Hitmonlee to Swagger), and is bad against Bugsy, Morty, most rival fights, Koga, Karen, and Lance. As stated in the Bellsprout paragraph, even though they're very different their performances are similar at the end of the day so they belong in the same tier.
Graveler is B. Geodude is probably the best Pokémon for the first four gyms, especially when paired with Chikorita since it covers the rival so well. It then has a dip in performance that makes it only able to beat the weakest mons (or none in Clair's case). However, once it gets to the E4 and learns Earthquake it goes back to being usable. A generally bad Will (at most getting one KO) is followed by a great Koga where it can beat four mons, a surprisingly solid Bruno since it can sometimes get three kills, an average Karen being able to beat Gengar and Houndoom and a bad Lance but where it can KO both Aero and Charizard with little issue or even attempt a Rollout minisweep. It has such a variable performance that it can be hard to tier but I think B is best due to it's better than average E4.
Mankey (G) is C. Mankey probably requires the Dig TM more than anything and that's already pretty limiting, however it makes some nice use of it. Great Morty, average Chuck and Jasmine, very solid Pryce, positive Clair, awful Will, bad Koga, average Bruno, solid Karen (would be better if it outsped Houndoom but sadly Primeape only hit 94 Speed at level 42) and a surprisingly good Lance with the elemental punches. Prior to Karen I was thinking that it sadly didn't deserve more than D since it relied too much on DynamicPunch to beat the aces (Jasmine's Steelix, Clair's Kingdra, Bruno's Machamp) due to not getting Cross Chop until level 46, however those last two fights settled any doubt. C fits it just fine.
Magmar (GS) is top A. Anyone who's tried it knows that Magmar is top 5 material, so much that it was S tier at one point in the past alongside Gatr and Fearow (and the undisputed king Alakazam, of course). Perhaps what most defines Magmar is its cost efficiency: since it gets all of Fire Punch, Sunny Day, and Flamethrower by level up, the only moves it needs are ThunderPunch and Headbutt—both really cheap. Magmar starts off great against Morty, beats Chuck, sweeps Jasmine and is unfazed by Pryce. Its first big roadblock is Clair, where it sadly doesn't have a strong enough Return so it fails to 2HKO the Dragonair and is ruined by Kingdra. It picks up in the E4 with great Will and Koga, has an average at best Bruno, a solid Karen and a bad Lance (as all Fire-types) but where it can at least outspeed and 2HKO both Gyarados and Charizard. Not much more to say.
Chinchou is mostly C, might have a shot at B. Lanturn is a very unique mon in that it's a Water-type that doesn't learn any Ice-type moves (only Ice Beam with Crystal tutors but that's postgame). That alone means that it'll struggle in the final boss fight. Slow growth rate is also annoying but that's shared with a bunch of other mid-game Water-types such as Starmie, Lapras or Tentacruel. Chinchou has an average Morty spamming Surf, some very good fights against Chuck, Jasmine and Pryce, a relatively solid Clair since it can 1v1 Kingdra (and unlike other Electric-types, it doesn't get wrecked if it tries to ThunderDance), and very good rival fights as long as you didn't choose Totodile as a starter. The problems start at the E4, where its low speed means that it'll get weakened by repeated hits. Gets at most three KOs against Will, Bruno and Karen, a good Koga fight since it can beat Crobat reliably plus the three bugs, and a not great Lance as expected, where it's generally gonna KO only Gyarados and one of Aerodactyl or Charizard but might beat the three. When compared to the other mid-game Slow Water-types it's clearly better than Cloyster and worse than Starmie and Lapras, and I'd argue worse than Tentacruel since its Speed plus Barrier come in handy lategame. If any of the two should be B it's Tenta I'd say, but Chinchou is definitely not bad—just not great.
Ho-Oh is fine in B. The E4 is pretty solid since its biggest issue is running out of Sacred Fire PP, Will and Koga are sweeps, Bruno it KOs all Hitmon and can beat Machamp if it burns/Rock Slide misses, has a solid Karen beating three or possibly four mons and its Lance performance is better than I expected, defeating Charizard plus the level 50 Dragonite as long as it outspeeds since it can Recover the Hyper Beam damage and 3HKO. It might even get a third KO against Gyara or the Blizzard Dnite but then you'll have to spam Recover (also Twister hitting you for twice the damage as you Fly is disgusting). If you hate yourself and wanna catch it before Clair it also has a winning performance there thanks to Safeguard and its great Special Defense, being a roll to OHKO the Dragonair and a 2HKO on Kingdra with Sharp Beak Fly. Even if Lugia is better I don't think its Lance matchup should be that damning.
On the topic of Tentacruel, has anyone tried catching Tentacool with a Good Rod in the Olivine Harbor? While it's likely to be better to catch level 24 Tentacruel post-Morty you do get to use it for two more important fights this way, and Surf should be good enough to hold you until evolution (which comes just in time for Chuck, unlike Psyduck or Goldeen). After that it does Tentacruel things as usual. Another mon I think could be worth catching at level 20 is Qwilfish, although it comes at the expense of a good matchup against Whitney leveling it up from level 5 with only Poison Sting and Swift/Headbutt sounds disgusting. Just something I thought was worth mentioning.
Wanted to comment on this post for two reasons. While Turdterra already kinda covered it above, I wanted to give my opinion anyway.
Firstly, fantastic post! I appreciate how much data you gave us. Little surprised to see Pidgey that good but I can believe it.
Now for the second reason, and that’s about why people sometimes reboot these lists. I know this is kind of a tangent (as I’m prone to doing, but all the same I like speaking my mind for the purpose of being transparent). Similar to what Turdterra said, I don’t disregard prior work. But sometimes old lists can get very messy and info doesn’t really hold up when put under a modern lens.
I’ll use RBY as an example (not discrediting the work people put in prior to my turn at it, running these games takes time). It was rebooted a grand total of three times, so much so I literally called my version a “Reboot” because I didn’t want to tell people this was on its fourth attempt. Several posts were also many years old and I doubt most people who did stuff for the old versions aside from the tier leader are even around here anymore. Edit: Apparently Mark III was actually published, and I was unaware of this. Still probably needed some modernization with the S-A tiering rubric.
Additionally, from what I remember, a lot of analyses were overly wordy to the point of fatigue. Not that being wordy makes something bad (as it goes hand in hand with critical thinking) but it makes it harder to read all the same.
Thirdly and most importantly, there was some ranks that just felt…off, and X Accuracy OHKO strats was the primary culprit. Banning this probably contributed to why some lists don’t use X items, I’m not gonna make that argument again, but you had people debating Seel in A solely for OHKO strats despite the fact that Seel is hot garbage.
Just wanted to give some perspective on why new versions / reboot lists start with a clean slate and I hope you found this insightful! Thanks for your contributions!
Yeah, I have to be frank here. All of a sudden I have become too busy, and no longer have time to dedicate to testing Pokemon. Given my passion for contributing to the project and what I hoped were meaningful contributions to the previous iteration of the tier list, I can't say I'm happy.
However, I'm also a little...disturbed by how low people seem to be ranking certain Pokemon. Scyther being in C-tier, given its E4 + Lance performance, is an absolute travesty. At the very least Scyther should be in B going off just how obscenely good he is at finishing off some of the game's toughest adversaries, and also being an at least average Pokemon even before that (crushes Chuck, isn't too bad against Clair, and can ace Whitney unless you get unlucky - Morty, Jasmine, Pryce, and the Rival all suck by varying degrees though). Likewise, Starmie being in B-tier in spite of its obscene coverage, speed, and power is incredibly galling, to say the least. Growlithe also deserves better than B given their early appearance, potentially very early evolution, and at least solid performance against every gym and major boss not called Chuck, Clair, or Lance.
I am at least heartened that Donphan (Crystal) made it to C, which is a pretty fair place for it and consistent with my playthroughs where she did a pretty decent - if not exceptional - job. I am also starting to agree that Chikorita truly belongs in C, their performances are just not good enough for them to deserve a higher position from what I have seen and what others have shown. Totodile not being in S is still very strange, I should think easily destroying gyms 1-4 (Whitney being one of them) and doing really well against every major boss not called Chuck, Bruno, or Will - and even then, Feraligatr is perfectly usable against all three and can definitely power through a good number of mons - deserves kudos. Unfortunately I didn't have the time or energy to test Totodile like I said, and given the consensus I am seeing here, it is unlikely their position is gonna change at all.
There is one other placement I find incredibly galling (and quite frankly, some of the testing on this thread shows how certain Pokemon aren't really being used to their full potential), but given the controversy over that position as of late - for which I am largely to blame - I will say no more.
Geodude in A seems completely reasonable even as a Graveler, their ability to pulverize gyms 1-4 is no joke and they can do a good job of crushing Jasmine too if you set up Defense Curls early in the fight, and they do really well against the Rival in pretty much every encounter unless they have Feraligatr or Meganium (and even then, destroy everyone else). Their performances against the E4 + Lance are pretty underwhelming in comparison but they can still beat up half of the Champion's team and can take out Karen's Houndoom, arguably one of the more threatening E4 mons.
Yeah, I have to be frank here. All of a sudden I have become too busy, and no longer have time to dedicate to testing Pokemon. Given my passion for contributing to the project and what I hoped were meaningful contributions to the previous iteration of the tier list, I can't say I'm happy.
However, I'm also a little...disturbed by how low people seem to be ranking certain Pokemon. Scyther being in C-tier, given its E4 + Lance performance, is an absolute travesty. At the very least Scyther should be in B going off just how obscenely good he is at finishing off some of the game's toughest adversaries, and also being an at least average Pokemon even before that (crushes Chuck, isn't too bad against Clair, and can ace Whitney unless you get unlucky - Morty, Jasmine, Pryce, and the Rival all suck by varying degrees though). Likewise, Starmie being in B-tier in spite of its obscene coverage, speed, and power is incredibly galling, to say the least. Growlithe also deserves better than B given their early appearance, potentially very early evolution, and at least solid performance against every gym and major boss not called Chuck, Clair, or Lance.
I am at least heartened that Donphan (Crystal) made it to C, which is a pretty fair place for it and consistent with my playthroughs where she did a pretty decent - if not exceptional - job. I am also starting to agree that Chikorita truly belongs in C, their performances are just not good enough for them to deserve a higher position from what I have seen and what others have shown. Totodile not being in S is still very strange, I should think easily destroying gyms 1-4 (Whitney being one of them) and doing really well against every major boss not called Chuck, Bruno, or Will - and even then, Feraligatr is perfectly usable against all three and can definitely power through a good number of mons - deserves kudos. Unfortunately I didn't have the time or energy to test Totodile like I said, and given the consensus I am seeing here, it is unlikely their position is gonna change at all.
There is one other placement I find incredibly galling (and quite frankly, some of the testing on this thread shows how certain Pokemon aren't really being used to their full potential), but given the controversy over that position as of late - for which I am largely to blame - I will say no more.
First off, you were told Growlithe was in no way making it to A. You can standby that you think it is A, but it has no business in there according to other testers and myself. Starmie, while not decided on B as of yet, has Slow XP Group (which plays a huge factor in a game where XP is very hard to come by), comes in at Level 20 which is considered underleveled, requires WAY too much investment for it play a role in your team (Surf, DST Trick, at least 1 GC TM, no Psychic, etc, etc.) While I won't deny the power of Starmie, that power comes at a great cost in it's efficiency, which by this I mean the sheer amount of money required to get it off it's feat.) It can't do anything to Chuck due to Wrath, it can probably take down Jasmine and is walled by Pryce unless you got ThunderDance or just Thunder for it. Clair is another issue it has and the E4 is just varying degrees that are against it. Now, I haven't tested the mon yet, but I can tell you by just reading what others have said and the amount of work I need to do for it, it's fine in B.
Donphan hasn't been decided on yet. C/D is where it will remain until we hold it's ranking placement.
Totodile has been placed in A and is not moving (was on a 2 week time limit). While the ability to beat Whitney is there, it is not 100% guaranteed. The other reason that has been stated a lot is that it just gets into a rut with its power output and never really claws its way out. So it goes from an S tier to an A tier due to lack of power in the later stages.
By all means, tell the people how to use a Pokemon to it's full potential. You've left that very vague (though I know of one such Pokemon that you constantly refer to) and as such, have my curiosity piqued. You've basically just called out the entire thread, so you might want to clarify on the said Pokemon.
