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GSC In-Game Tier List Mark V
- Thread starter Turdterra
- Start date
Hi yes, I am alive still. I took a leave of absence (again). Life got in the way and after the last debacle on the list, I lost quite a lot of motivation. I won't hash it out. Those that are curious can easily go and see if if they so choose to. Let me do some responses and catch everyone up on what is happening with the list here.
The list is pretty much done, I just have to stop being lazy, wrap up my test, and then do the final post in this thread on the Pokemon being placed. That's about it for the list and then it moves to Write-Ups.
I started them and got to Pryce. Eventually I got side tracked and pretty much just kinda stopped. But most fights were pretty much becoming the same over and over for all 3 testing mons. I'll finish my runs of course when I get back to it but from what I can tell you, the placements people have put them in are very accurate. Rather just get them finished and done, added in to the tally, and be done.
Simply put, I never added it. I was doing the last round of tallies and tests before putting them in their spots for good. As for when the list came out in 2021, yeah. It should have been finished a very long time ago but there was no urgency for the list to be done so it became a very low priority thing in my oddly busy life. It's not like when I did HGSS and I was still in school and had quite a bit of time.
The list is pretty much done, I just have to stop being lazy, wrap up my test, and then do the final post in this thread on the Pokemon being placed. That's about it for the list and then it moves to Write-Ups.
Requesting the removal of specifying Crystal version for Staryu and Growlithe because it's possible to get the Stones via Mystery Gift, which does work in the 3DS version. Since Trade rankings are allowed I think this is a reasonable request.
I don't think this functionally changes their rankings because the items obtained from Mystery Gift are random + daily locked and DSTing for them in Crystal is obviously way more consistent, but the possibility does exist and worth mentioning.
I don't think this functionally changes their rankings because the items obtained from Mystery Gift are random + daily locked and DSTing for them in Crystal is obviously way more consistent, but the possibility does exist and worth mentioning.
But what if you're not playing the 3DS version of GS? Some people aren't playing Gold or Silver on the 3DS.
I can see that happening though I have my apprehensions. The first major thing is that the 3DS EShop is dead. You cannot buy anything off it, add funds, etc. (Unless I am mistaken) That isn't to say in the future that these games may make it on NSO (Switch Online) or get a port of sorts that allow this Mystery Gift feature once live, but I'm not a fan of putting out the list with something that may not be an option anymore for those that never got this game on the 3DS at the time.
Another thing is that it is daily locked and random. If it weren't daily locked, I would be even more inclined if the first reason could be alleviated somehow so long as the randomness wasn't horrible and the pool of gifts you could get was small.
Another point brought up above me. What if the user is not playing on a 3DS? This is device specific so it's not something I would want to rely on for the sake of the people looking at the list who play actual cart or via other means that do not include a 3DS.
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Holy sweet balls of fire. Is that the actual rate on that?
Considering Scyther used to be S-tier on the HGSS in-game tier list, but was brought down to B-tier simply because of its rarity and 50% chance of getting its good ability (effectively bringing it down to 2.5%), I'm sure that a 0.2% obtain rate for the evolution item would certainly go against a Pokemon on the list.
Considering how easy it is to mod a 3DS (apparently), I would not be surprised if you could still obtain the VC version that way.
And I'm pretty sure the NSO version of Pokémon Trading Card Game emulates the infrared connection for Card Pop, so it's definitely possible if we get Gen 2 on there. The question is obviously if/when like you said.
So you can use it five times per day but only by connecting with five different games. If you theoretically got enough people (or at least 3DSs) in a room to max it out, the randomness becomes less of an issue because you're doing so many rolls between the six of you. However, that's super difficult to set up and you're probably just getting two, maybe six (with a third 3DS and item trading) chances a day.
I said it was possible, not realistic lmao.
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That HGSS tier list was amazingly descriptive. I wish all of the in-game tier lists were that detailed.
Yeah, Steelix had the same issue. It could have been up in the higher A or even S (albeit highly unlikely), Metal Coat was the issue at hand. Scyther was put down super far due to what you stated and the other issue of actually capturing it without it killing you back. It was also found Scyther was better than Scizor iirc due to all these issues and losing Wing Attack Tech STAB was huge. But don't quote me on that. While I led that list to completion, remembering the details of it is.....I'm getting older let's put it there.
Uh, Onix (Trade) is A-tier in the HGSS in-game tier list. Unless if you're referring the GSC list.
The list does claim that PokeAthalon is less time-consuming than getting a Metal Coat. Though I will make the counter-argument that Butterfree makes held items much easier to get. It's not very hard to get a Butterfree by the time you start finding wild Magnemite.
It was legitimately excruciating in the original GSC, with a 2% chance of Magnemite holding it, with no way to increase the odds.
That is what I was referring to yes. He was put in A because of the Metal Coat issue. As for the Butterfree claim. You require extra steps such as needing Thief which is in the Rocket Hideout, on top of fhis it’s a 5% chance normally to have a Magnemite with one, 10% with Compoundeyes. It’s very clear which method is better to obtain Metal Coat. The Compoundeyes method was taken into account on Steelix’s placement in HGSS.
In GSC, you are better off not getting Rocky but getting your own Onix. Due to how Disobedience worked, Rocky will easily disobey you during Bugsy and Whitney as Whitney’s badge raises the obedience cap. Metal Coat in GSC is much much worse to obtain as it is a 2% held rate on Magnemite.
So would Onix have been S-tier if the Metal Coat was easy to obtain? I kind of doubt that Onix would deserve S-tier placement, even then. Steelix only has 85 base attack, so it can't sweep through huge swaths of the game like Gyarados and Alakazam can.
In HGSS? It most certainly can. It has access to Curse and most of the later match ups are very favorable towards it. The other issues with it is that it was slow so it easy to get abused and a good chunk of its moves were inaccurate. But ultimately it wound up in A Tier by quite a few votes if memory serves.
I thought the chances with Compoundeyes increased to 20%? According to Bulbapedia, items with a 5% chance of being held have a 20% chance of being held if the player's lead has Compoundeyes.
yeah I don't support 0.2% Mystery Gift at all in any context
I didn't know that you could even get evolutionary stones this way at all despite doing tons of runs for these lists
that's like...DPPT Munchlax levels of improbability lol
also in general, even if you get a stone evolution off the top of my head it really doesn't move the needle much unless you're a Water type with OP Surf or maybe Vulpix with level 31 Flamethrower. A lot of mons in GSC have trash moves by default
I didn't know that you could even get evolutionary stones this way at all despite doing tons of runs for these lists
that's like...DPPT Munchlax levels of improbability lol
also in general, even if you get a stone evolution off the top of my head it really doesn't move the needle much unless you're a Water type with OP Surf or maybe Vulpix with level 31 Flamethrower. A lot of mons in GSC have trash moves by default
The catch is getting one nowadays.
I tried to check around for one and it was more expensive than a Switch Lite. It's officially on Scalper Tech mode.
Let's be real, can you use Mystery Gift on an emulator? If you can, that's one thing.
That's... actually insane. I can understand it dropping to A, but B-Tier on encounter rate alone!?
That can't be right.
That is a significant number of Pokemon, namely Starmie and Vaporeon. That's why they're rated higher in Crystal. Though I will admit that with other stone evolutions:
Fire Stone: Growlithe gets Flame Wheel on level 34, and Flamethrower on level 50. Also, money's too scarce to get Fire Blast from the Game Corner. So I guess Growlithe can't really benefit from stone evolutions much in GS.
Thunder Stone: Pikachu is literally the only Pokemon in gen 2 that evolves via Thunder Stone. You can't even get one until the post-game in GS. In Crystal, you can only get one via that egg that comes with Dizzy Punch.
Leaf Stone: Sadly, Bellsprout and Oddish suck in gen 2. Bellsprout got hit hard with the nerf stick, losing auto-crit Razor Leaf. Both Weepinbell and Gloom don't get their stronger grass move until past level 40, so they won't even evolve until very late. Exeggutor by contrast is very TM-dependent, and its TMs are available much later than in gen 1.
So all in all, the other stone evolved Pokemon were already kind of bad in GSC, and won't be able to reach their final forms until around the Elite Four. That timing likely means that their tier rankings won't be affected much with a better available evolution stone.
It is in fact correct. At the end game, Scyther just kinda exists iirc. It goes from being a massive threat to kinda just falling off. Being an effective 2.5% encounter with a pretty hard catch rate and potentially KOing you in turn put it in B tier.
Does Scyther fall off because it loses its advantage of having the power of a fully-evolved Pokemon at a point when most opponents are not fully evolved, similar to what Nidoking suffers in gen 1?
Iirc, yes. Things are able to start taking those Wing Attacks and Scyther is fairly frail so it tends to struggle a bit around Pryce/Clair and then on. Scizor is ranked lower due to Metal Coat and losing Wing Attack STAB with Tech. Metal Claw would be nice but you need to stave off leveling it and it doesn't have the comparable power to Wing Attack. Don't get me wrong, Scizor is a great Pokemon, but the loss of speed, lack of reasonably good STAB to abuse Tech, Metal Coat acquisition was too much for it, and Scyther either performed similarly or was outright better than Scizor in matchups.
Ok, so there is a performance factor involved.
I don't remember much about HGSS, so I'd suspect that Scyther isn't doing anything to Jasmine without Brick Break, and I could see Koga and especially Lance folding it, not to mention its general frailty starting to kick in. Even so, I can also see it pulling its weight because even in matchups where it doesn't sweep by itself, getting a quick U-Turn off can definitely help put things in range for easier KOs, supporting its team.
Ngl, a two-tier drop off those availability issues would have major ripple impacts on other lists otherwise.
Meanwhile, Alakazam is considered amazing in-game because unlike most other early game nukes, it never fully falls off, and continues to sweep through huge swaths of the game, even after everything else catches up to it in evolution.