GSC In-Game Tier List Mk. IV

I think cows are B material now.

Volt-Ikazuchi Would Granbull do better vs Jasmine if it has X Accuracy?
Probably. Steelix would still 2HKO it, I guess.

I'd personally try to grab another level on some optional trainers like the Route 34 Trio. The screenshots show just how close Charcoal Fire Punch get to OHKOing the Magnemite.

The matchup is rough, but doable with a little extra effort.

The bigger issue really is how much Iron Tail does to Granbull. You're essentially getting 2HKO'd while 3HKOing back. Sure, Granbull *is* faster, but still...
 
Caught a L21 Quagsire in the Ruins of Alph lake! Didn't take too long to find one, just led with a L20 Chinchou whom I fished for HM use purposes, sprayed a Super Repel, and Surfed around till my boy popped out. Leveled him to L26 by fighting trainers and now I'm in the Mahogany base (Quilava crushed Red Gyara with Rollout; Rollout is seriously an awesome move, guys*). As for Quagsire, his lack of speed even against wild opponents is annoying but his bulk is great and his power thus far has never been found wanting, though that might change later on. My current moveset is Surf/Dig/Amnesia/Tail Whip, and I expect him to have no issues crushing the Rockets in Mahogany with those moves - minus the Gloom ladies.

*Quilava was L27 at best, probably L26 though, and yet Rollout crushed Red Gyara. Tbf Gyara not spamming Dragon Rage helped :)

I think cows are B material now.

Volt-Ikazuchi Would Granbull do better vs Jasmine if it has X Accuracy?
1. They're still in A last I checked. That's fine, I actually would like to try Miltank or Tauros personally. Rollout's OPness and the sheer power of Normals in this game (Raticate and Granbull both impressing me thus far) really makes me wonder whether they deserve to be in B.

2. I thought we hadn't decided the policy for X-Accuracy yet? X-Accuracy pretty much negs Falkner's Mud-Slap FYI and you get one in the tower.
 
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Trying Pokémon Crystal with Spearow, Kenya, Snubbull and post-Surf Ursaring. Everyone has 9 Atk IVs, 8 IVs everywhere else.

For this battle I tested with and without Sprout Tower.

Spearow Lv7 (w/ Berry): Peck 5HKOs Pidgey and 6HKOs Pidgeotto. Pidgey 4HKOs with Tackle (8HKOs after one Growl). Pidgeotto 3HKOs with Gust.

Spearow Lv10 (w/ Berry): Peck 3HKOs Pidgey (2HKO after one Leer) and 4HKOs Pidgeotto (3HKOs after one Leer). Pidgey 6HKOs with Tackle (10HKO after Growl) and Pidgeotto 4HKOs with Gust (5HKOs after Growl).


Spearow Lv15: Peck 2HKOs Metapod and Kakuna, and 3HKOs Scyther.


Spearow Lv16-17 (w/ Pink Bow): Peck 2HKOs Gastly and 3HKOs Bayleef. Fury Attack 6HKOs Zubat. Bayleef's Razor Leaf 6HKOs.

At this point I got Snubbull and Kenya. For Kenya I calculated the experience I'm getting with standard Spearow after acquiring Kenya, and multiplied it by 1.5x to get an idea of which level Kenya should have. Snubbull had 4394 exp less than Spearow at join time. I battled every trainer post-Azalea.

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Fearow Lv21 (w/ Pink Bow): 154 Happiness Return 2HKOs Clefairy easily, but the 3HKO against Miltank (or the 2HKO with Leer) is a range. If Rollout misses or Miltank picks Stomp on the first turn, you don't need ranges since Rollout 3HKOs and Fearow outspeeds. It must be noted that it can defeat Whitney consistently at Lv22.

Kenya Lv19 (w/ Pink Bow): Even with the Swift TM, Kenya doesn't reach the 2HKO against Clefairy. Miltank is out of its reach.

Snubbull Lv19 (w/ Pink Bow): Headbutt 2HKOs Clefairy easily. However, it is a 4HKO against Miltank, who outspeeds and 3HKOs back with Rollout.


Fearow Lv24 (w/ Pink Bow): Return misses the 2HKO by very little against Magnemite, and OHKOs Zubat. Peck 2HKOs Bayleef and Haunter. With the Mud-Slap TM, Fearow can 2HKO Magnemite.

Kenya Lv24 (w/ Pink Bow): Fury Attack 9HKOs Magnemite and 4HKOs Zubat, which means that Kenya OHKOs Zubat and 3HKOs Magnemite with the Swift TM. Peck 2HKOs Bayleef and Haunter. With the Mud-Slap TM, Kenya can 2HKO Magnemite.

Granbull Lv23 (w/ Pink Bow): Bite 2HKOs Haunter. Fire Punch OHKOs Magnemite. Strength OHKOs Zubat and 2HKOs Bayleef.

I battled every trainer available before Surf.

Fearow Lv27 (w/ Mint Berry): Peck OHKOs Gastly, 2HKOs Haunter, and 3HKOs Gengar (2HKO after Leer).

Kenya Lv28 (w/ Mint Berry): Peck OHKOs Gastly, 2HKOs Haunter, and 3HKOs Gengar (2HKO after Leer).

Granbull Lv27 (w/ Mint Berry): Bite OHKOs Gastly, 2HKOs Haunter and 3HKOs Gengar. It must be noted that Granbull speed-ties Gastly and is slower than the rest.

I got a Lv30 Ursaring with the Friend Ball after this. It had 3274 exp more than Fearow at join time.

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Fearow Lv32 (w/ Pink Bow): 206 Friendship Return OHKOs Primeape and 2HKOs Poliwrath.

Kenya Lv34 (w/ Pink Bow): 181 Friendship Return OHKOs Primeape and 2HKOs Poliwrath.

Granbull Lv33 (w/ Pink Bow): Strength OHKOs Primeape and 2HKOs Poliwrath. However, both Primeape and Poliwrath outspeed. Granbull must rely on two Dynamic Punch misses to sweep.

Ursaring Lv33 (w/ Pink Bow): 213 Friendship Return OHKOs Primeape and 2HKOs Poliwrath. However, Primeape outspeeds. Ursaring must rely on one Dynamic Punch miss to sweep.

Granbull and Ursaring's low speed has started to become an issue :/
Both Fearow and Kenya are fantastic so far.
 
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I started another run on a different emulator that can trade so I'm using Golem, Gengar, Machamp and the trade evolution Psychic Slowking. I've decided that because Machop gets boosted experience and 0 Atk DVs for being female I'd keep it 3 levels above my party. This also lets me evolve them all at the same time. A 46 trade Machop would be a level 40 Machop without the exp boost and a level 20 Machop becomes 23 with the boost. I'm sure some people will disagree but even as a kid I gave traded Pokemon 5 levels over my party because I just guessed 50% more exp would be 5 levels.


10 Geodude got to 11 after beating Pidgey and Rock Throw took care of Pidgeotto. I used X Accuracy but a potion or two could be used in GS.
17 Geodude 1HKO's all of Bugsy
18 Geodude is slower than the rivals Gastly, but it still beat it and Zubat. I wasn't mean enough to test Bayleef.
19 Geodude lost to Razor Leaf and on the next attempt Water Gun. Gave up on Clefairy but beat Miltank with 31/49 HP left.
25 Golem is slower than all the ghosts but 1HKO's them so it's an easy sweep with a Mint Berry unless you're pretty unlucky and are slept twice.
27 Golem beat Primape, living Leer into Karate Chop crit. Dies to Surf
32 Golem solod Pryce 3/4 tries. You live Blizzard, outspeed and 3HKO Piloswine who can use other attacks. Magnitude seems
to usually KO Seel. You beat Dewgong 1v1 but will be too weakened to beat all 3
32 Golem beats Magnemites but loses to Steelix.
34 Golem sweeps the rival except for Meganium. If he had Typhlosion Golem would have swept.
37 Golem can beat 1 Dragonair that doesn't have Surf.
40 Golem sweeps the rival except for Meganium. If he had Typhlosion Golem would have swept.
41 Golem with an X Speed and Bitter Berry can sweep all of Wills pokemon except the last Xatu with an X speed and Bitter Berry
41 Golem solos Koga 2/3 tries without items but an X Accuracy makes it consistent.
41 Golem sweeps all except Machamp, who it beats at full health. Golem solos with an X Speed and 2 X Attack
42 Golem sweeps Umbreon, Murkrow and Gengar. Golem solos with 2 x speed, x attack and x accuracy.
42 Golem sweeps Aerodactyl, Thunder Dragonite and Charizard

Geodude is the best Pokemon for the first half of Johto where you want Def but falls off after Morty. It's not that bad though, where falling off means beating all except the Ace instead of soloing the Gym. Routes were bad after Morty heading to Cianwood but after that it's outspeeding things because of how weak everything is East of Ecruteak and it gets to abuse it's high Atk to 1HKO things. Against the Elite 4 for it does pretty good, sweeping one, beating 4/5 of 2 and half of Lance. That doesn't sound that special for an A rank but given how valuable it is in the early game I'd say it deserves it's A rank.

17 Gastly solos Bugsy but the cocoons are slow, needing 20 licks. 4x resisting Fury Cutter makes it do 1, so it's easy to sleep before it builds too much.
17 Gastly can beat his Gastly but if you have something else that handles it well that's better due to status. Bayleef can be Hypnosis and Cursed or you can use a potion. Zubat is a bad matchup.
19 Gastly solos with enough items. You want to hypnosis then curse Clefairy and use a potion, x accuracy and x speed. Hypnosis and Curse Miltank, At which point I was at 20 hp and rollout did 10 damage. You might need a second potion if you
miss sleep on clefairy and it damages you or Miltank gets an early wake.
25 Gengar 1HKO's Gastly, 2HKO's Haunter and 3HKO's Gengar. Evolving didn't change this fight. You can beat Gastly and Haunter while leaving Gengar asleep and damaged with an X Accuracy and Mint Berry.
28 Gengar solos Chuck without needing Hypnosis.
31 Gengar solos Pryce without needing Hypnosis.
32 Gengar solos Jasmine without needing Hypnosis.
34 Gengar solos Rival with X Accuracy or if it has Ice Punch, Fire Punch and Shadow Ball. Without Shadow Ball you solo all
except Haunter, who you still beat 1v1
38 Gengar solos with a PRZcure berry and X Accuracy. You 3HKO Kingdra who 2HKO's back.
40 Gengar solos the rival without needing Hypnosis
40 Gengar solos Wills with an X accuracy if they never get a first turn wake.
41 Gengar solos with an X Accuracy or beats all except Crobat, who it loses to 1v1 without Hypnosis.
41 Gengar solos Bruno with an X Accuracy
41 Gengar solos Karen with an X Accuracy and Dynamic Punch. Otherwise it sweeps all except Houndoom who it loses to.
42 Gengar solos Lance with an X Accuracy as long as you don't get a first turn wake on the 50 Dragonite or Aerodactyl.

Gengar is absolutely worth leveling Gastly for. After Morty it solos every single fight, needing an X Accuracy. While Haunter also solos it tends to need average luck, like 3 turns of sleep and just does everything slower on routes. Haunter 3HKO's everything on routes but Gengar 1HKO's often and 2HKO's more often than 3HKOs. Once it evolves it's the best Pokemon in the game after Alakazam, and it still beats 2/4 gyms. The bulk is noticeable to, in particular I lived Xatu's Psychic, and living one hit is often all Gengar needs to sweep. It definitely deserve A.

22 Machop lost 17 HP easily solosing Whitney,
28 Machamp is only faster than Gastly. Dig 1HKO's everything but you can be slept and cursed so you can beat Gengar and Gastly with a Mint Berry but are better off using something else for the Haunter. I didn't think about it until just not but I wonder if Mud Slap would 1HKO Gastly. Replacing Headbutt with it wouldn't be a problem as I'm about to get Strength.
30 Machamp got 2 crit Karate Chops and won taking 0 damage. I tried again with Strength because that felt too lucky and
got 2 crits again and won. A few more tries without crit and I kept losing because Machamp is slower than both, but with a
Mint Berry you reliably 1v1 either of them. A lot of people are going to want to use their Mint Berry on Morty, but you can
always use awakes.
34 Machamp solos Pryce
34 Machamp solos Jasmine
36 Machamp beats any of the Rival's Pokemon 1v1, but is too slow to beat more than 2.
40 Machamp beats all 3 Dragonair but it depends on damage rolls to beat Kingdra. It can 2HKO but sometimes 3HKO's and Kingdra 3HKOs. She likes to waste here Hyper Potion after 1 Vital Throw. She 3HKO's so it's very reliable with a Hyper Potion of your own but I don't know the chances to 2HKO to save the Potion.
42 Machamp beats any of the Rival's Pokemon 1v1, but is too slow to beat more than 4.
42 Machamp only beats Jynx
42 Machamp beats all except Crobat
43 Machamp sweeps all except Machamp, who it beats if it's healthy.
43 Machamp sweeps all except Houndoom with an X Accuracy, who it beats losing half health. With an X Accuracy, X Speed and Full heal if you get paralyzed you solo Karen.
44 Machamp can beat 1 of Gyarados or 47 Dragonite.

Having the boosted experience is so nice and worth not having Atk DVs. Usually I have to grind wilds before the elite 4 to get everyone 3-4 levels to be at 40 like how everyone else is and this time I didn't need to fight any wilds. It's also my first time playing Crystal, so there were a few extra trainers after Clair, although I skipped the Suicune stuff. It has enough speed to be a major help to your team throughout the game. With the exception of Will and Lance Machamp sweeps every major battle, or can choose to beat either the ace or everything else. I think it should move from B->A

27 Slowking can 1v1 Poliwrath but it's unreliable without an X Special or Mint Berry. You 3HKO it who 5HKO's back but also
2HKO Primape, giving it 3 turns to chip you down. This makes me think the best time to catch Slowking might be before Bugsy
or after Fly.
31 Slowking loses to Dewgong, 5HKOing and being chipped down and rested on but beats the other 2
32 Slowking outspeeds and 1HKO's all of Jasmine and I didn't even get Mystic Water yet.
38 Slowking can beat 2 Dragonairs, not 1HKOing with Nevermeltice Ice Punch. It can 1v1 Kingdra, I lost 83/134 HP
40 Slowking beats any of the Rival's Pokemon 1v1, but is too slow to beat more than 4.
41 Slowking with 2 X Speed and Shadow Ball solos Will. Without items it'll take down 2.
41 Slowking solos Koga with an X Accuracy or itemless if you don't miss too much.
41 Slowking sweeps all except Machamp, who it beats at full health. It solos Bruce with an X speed and X special
41 Slowking beats Umbreon, Murkrow and Gengar. With an X Accuracy, 2 X speed and an X Special you sweep
42 Slowking beat all except Thunder Dragonite and Gyarados 1v1. It only beats 1.

Slowking was exactly as expected, having a very good move pool and stats outside of speed but among the worst backtracking in the game. With it's great bulk the speed isn't as detrimental on routes. I think it would be A rank if it didn't need to backtrack which makes me wonder if early Slowpoke could be A rank. If it can beat Bugsy by cursing on Metapod and Whitney by using Dig and Curse, perhaps with a single Fresh Water and beat Poliwrath I think it could move up, but I'm kind of doubtful it would do well enough against Whitney and Chuck. I think on my next run I'll use a Slowpoke until Chuck to see how it does but for now I'm happy with it in B.

I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on moving Sudowoodo and Remoraid to D, as well as Shellder (GS) to E.

Granbull and Ursaring's low speed has started to become an issue :/
This makes me wonder if early Teddiursa could be better. Ursaring's 55 base speed isn't so bad that it's slower than everything so I wonder how much of a difference the extra stat exp would make. Golems 45 base speed still outspeeds a decent amount of things before the Elite 4. I don't know what Pokemon I want to use next so I might try it out.
 
This makes me wonder if early Teddiursa could be better. Ursaring's 55 base speed isn't so bad that it's slower than everything so I wonder how much of a difference the extra stat exp would make. Golems 45 base speed still outspeeds a decent amount of things before the Elite 4. I don't know what Pokemon I want to use next so I might try it out.
Neither Ursaring nor Granbull face speed issues against generic enemies, but that's because even Sunflora can outspeed a solid bunch of them. It's mostly against bosses that the lackluster speed becomes noticeable, and I'm fearing that it will affect their Elite Four performance. They would have to be able to OHKO stuff for them not to be worse than the current B Tiers. We will see.
 
Granbull and Ursaring don't need their speed as much when they're pretty tanky, especially compared to the B-Tiers like Raticate and Furret.

Granbull also held her own pretty well in the E4, she isn't soloing any member other than Koga but can put in work against any of them, even Lance.
 
I'd also like to hear people's thoughts on moving Sudowoodo and Remoraid to D, as well as Shellder (GS) to E.
Curious as to why Sudowoodo would have to be dropped, especially that low. Its great Attack and physical bulk mitigate its low speed. The beginning moveset of STAB + Low Kick cover the whole game (excluding Nidoking and Nidoqueen) and can be further improved by Dig.

Shellder without Water Stone should definitely drop. With horrid special bulk and very low offensive capabilities (similar to Sneasel actually) it has no reason to be above the lowest tiers. Additionally, it only has Surf and STABless Aurora Beam/Blizzard so its movepool is not saving it either.

Also, regarding your Gastly's notes - 2-3HKOing route Pokemon works against its nomination to A tier. I distinctively remember Jumpluff doing the same. If Haunter and Gengar require constant usage of items and multiple turns to reliably deal with most opponents, it's a sign of inefficiency - you lose both money and time. However, I am impressed it can solo Chuck, Jasmine and Price without Hypnosis.
 
Gengar, Golem, Machamp, Slowking stuff.
Agree about Gengar so far. I've just beaten Morty and my experiences with it are similar. I'm not sure about spamming that many X-Accuracy though since it is functionally similar to the X-Accuracy + OHKO move thing in RBY and why X items are banned there. Thing is, we've allowed X items so far, and banning them now would mean reworking things from scratch. 2HKOing to 3HKOing bosses are impressive. I have not tried it against mooks yet. What is your moveset? Hyp / Fire Punch / Shadow Ball / ???

As for Golem, I disagree with the A ranking. Sure, it's S for the first half of Johto but as your log shows, you need to spam many items against the Elite Four while losing to the Ace of important trainers.

I just tested Machamp and it just feels very similar to Lapras who is at home in B tier. Like it can win against specific match-ups but will be too damaged to sweep.

The reason Slowpoke even gets ranked high is because of Slowpoke Well. Early Slowpoke's performances is just unimpressive.
 
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Curious as to why Sudowoodo would have to be dropped, especially that low. Its great Attack and physical bulk mitigate its low speed. The beginning moveset of STAB + Low Kick cover the whole game (excluding Nidoking and Nidoqueen) and can be further improved by Dig.
Also, lack of quad weakness to Water is pretty nice. So is Rock Slide at Lv. 28. 70/65 isn't awesome in terms of special bulk, but it's no liability either.

It's just after all of the good matchups for a Rock-type and horrifyingly slow.
 
The reason Slowpoke even gets ranked high is because of Slowpoke Well. Early Slowpoke's performances is just unimpressive.
This reminds me of another issue I thought: should slowpoke and slowpoke (trade) be the same tier? Slowpoke evokes at level 37, meaning you'll JUST be getting fully evolved stats and Ice Punch around Clair (admittedly perfect timing but still). In my incomplete Crystal run, my Slowpoke was already starting to lag a bit before I evolved it around level 25 (King's Rock is available immediately after the 4th gym with fairly minor backtracking).

12 or so levels of difference between getting Bro and King (and being stuck with Poke until then) is big in a game with as limited a level curve as this. Anyone else think it's worthy of a tier difference?
 
This reminds me of another issue I thought: should slowpoke and slowpoke (trade) be the same tier? Slowpoke evokes at level 37, meaning you'll JUST be getting fully evolved stats and Ice Punch around Clair (admittedly perfect timing but still). In my incomplete Crystal run, my Slowpoke was already starting to lag a bit before I evolved it around level 25 (King's Rock is available immediately after the 4th gym with fairly minor backtracking).

12 or so levels of difference between getting Bro and King (and being stuck with Poke until then) is big in a game with as limited a level curve as this. Anyone else think it's worthy of a tier difference?
You can catch wild Slowbros in the Slowpoke Well after getting Surf, which is the same time you're going to get the King's Rock.
 
I wasn't aware, but that's more of an endorsement of Slowbro than Slowpoke.
I definitely believe we need to list the Pokemon in the actual form we obtain them.

Slowpoke sucks (okay, not really, but he isn't great either) and we shouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.

Sudowoodo belongs in B, if not even lower. He has no good matchups, he literally appears after gyms where he would have been truly useful (Falkner, Bugsy, and Whitney). Morty outspeeds very easily and crushes him with sleep and/or hax, Pryce hammers his low Sp. Def stat while outspeeding (admittedly Rock Slide and Low Kick can beat the Ice-types down but it's not a safe matchup I think), Chuck breaks you with Fighting-type attacks and Surf while tanking your Rock-type attacks, Jasmine tanks everything you have while hitting hard with Thunderbolts and/or Iron Tail, and lol Clair.

Geodude at least gets the entire earlygame to beat up on and has Ground-type STAB for Morty/Jasmine as well as natural Curlout (the Curl part, anyway) to break through obstacles like Chuck/Jasmine. They're definitely not as good in the later game but they're better than Sudo overall. They also don't necessarily NEED Dig - though Magnitude can be annoying if it's too weak - allowing you to save the TM for someone like Croconaw instead.
 
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I definitely believe we need to list the Pokemon in the actual form we obtain them.

Slowpoke sucks (okay, not really, but he isn't great either) and we shouldn't want people to get the wrong idea.
Not to start an argument, but actually there have been Pokemon that have cases for being gotten later.

In BW1 Purrloin was absolutely one of these cases. No Dark STAB until Pursuit at level 15 is just pitiful and it is far and away the weakest early thing you could use outside of the infamous Pansear; when I can think of redeeming qualities for both Pidove and Woobat your earlygame is on a new level of abysmal.

Heck, even Pansear itself had a case for being used later if it wasn't straight up given to you if you chose Oshawott; any time you can minimize using 30 BP garbage STAB Incinerate is absolutely a positive (those 12 levels to Flame Burst feel like 12 years).

Yamask is a mon that outside of Elesa and Clay could also be caught later even if the list assumes you catch it early on. It's absurdly weak until it evolves and while it still has coverage problems as Cofagrigus it isn't working from 55 Special Attack anymore (lower than Audino and lol Servine).

Even outside of BW1 there are Pokemon like this in DPPT. Oh look, I can get Meditite near Eterna City - yeah it's garbage because it gets Force Palm in 15 painful levels and is stuck with the likes of Rock Smash, Confusion and Hidden Power until then - just catch it at Celestic Town around the time it gets all of its good moves. Bronzor also kinda sucks until Bronzong: base 24 offenses are legendarily low even with Extrasensory.

You get the point. But yeah, some Pokemon really do suck earlygame.
 
Fearow Lv33-34 (w/ Pink Bow): 213 Friendship Return OHKOs Seel and 2HKOs both Dewgong and Piloswine. Blizzard has to miss for a sweep, unfortunately - however, Piloswine uses Icy Wind against full health Fearow, which still outspeeds it, which means that it can beat Piloswine 1 vs 1.

Kenya Lv36-37 (w/ Pink Bow): 193 Friendship Return OHKOs Seel and 2HKOs both Dewgong and Piloswine. Blizzard has to miss for a sweep, unfortunately - however, Piloswine uses Icy Wind against full health Fearow, which still outspeeds it, which means that it can beat Piloswine 1 vs 1.

Granbull Lv35 (w/ Pink Bow): Strength OHKOs Seel, and 2HKOs both Dewgong and Piloswine. Granbull outspeeds both.

Ursaring Lv35 (w/ Pink Bow): 222 Friendship Return OHKOs Seel and Dewgong, and misses out on the OHKO against Piloswine by little. Ursaring outspeeds both.


Fearow Lv34 (w/ Pink Bow): 216 Friendship Return 2HKOs Magnemite, who 2HKOs back. Soft Sand boosted Mud-Slap misses out on the OHKO against Magnemite. Return 8HKOs Steelix.

Kenya Lv37 (w/ Pink Bow): 195 Friendship Return 2HKOs Magnemite, who 2HKOs back. Soft Sand boosted Mud-Slap misses out on the OHKO against Magnemite by little. Return 8HKOs Steelix.

Granbull Lv35 (w/ Charcoal): Fire Punch OHKOs Magnemite and 2HKOs Steelix.

Ursaring Lv35 (w/ Charcoal): Fire Punch OHKOs Magnemite and 2HKOs Steelix.


Fearow Lv35 (w/ Pink Bow): 220 Friendship Return OHKOs Sneasel, and 2HKOs Golbat and Magnemite. Fly OHKOs Haunter and 2HKOs Meganium (3HKO after Reflect). With the Mud-Slap TM, Fearow 2HKOs Magnemite. Confuse Ray and Thunder Wave can disrupt the sweep.

Kenya Lv38 (w/ Pink Bow): 203 Friendship Return OHKOs Sneasel, and 2HKOs Golbat and Magnemite. Fly OHKOs Haunter and Meganium (2HKO after Reflect). With the Mud-Slap TM, Kenya 2HKOs Magnemite. Confuse Ray and Thunder Wave can disrupt the sweep.

Granbull Lv36 (w/ Pink Bow): 203 Friendship Return OHKOs Sneasel and Golbat (it is a range however) and 2HKOs Meganium. Bite 2HKOs Haunter. Fire Punch OHKOs Magnemite and 3HKOs Meganium. With the Shadow Ball TM, it OHKOs Haunter. Golbat and Haunter outspeed and can disrupt the sweep with Confuse Ray or Curse, however.

Ursaring Lv36 (w/ Pink Bow): 227 Friendship Return OHKOs Sneasel and Golbat, and 2HKOs Meganium. Faint Attack 2HKOs Haunter. Fire Punch OHKOs Magnemite and 3HKOs Meganium. Golbat and Haunter outspeed and can disrupt the sweep with Confuse Ray or Curse, however.


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Fearow Lv39 (w/ Pink Bow): 237 Friendship Return can OHKO Dragonair, but it is a range. Return 2HKOs Kingdra.

Kenya Lv43 (w/ Pink Bow): 222 Friendship Return OHKOs Dragonair and 2HKOs Kingdra.

Granbull Lv41 (w/ Pink Bow): 222 Friendship Return OHKOs Dragonair, and 2HKOs Kingdra. However, Dragonair and Kingdra outspeed.

Ursaring Lv40 (w/ Pink Bow): 244 Friendship Return Return OHKOs Dragonair, and 2HKOs Kingdra.
 
Not to start an argument, but actually there have been Pokemon that have cases for being gotten later.

In BW1 Purrloin was absolutely one of these cases. No Dark STAB until Pursuit at level 15 is just pitiful and it is far and away the weakest early thing you could use outside of the infamous Pansear; when I can think of redeeming qualities for both Pidove and Woobat your earlygame is on a new level of abysmal.

Heck, even Pansear itself had a case for being used later if it wasn't straight up given to you if you chose Oshawott; any time you can minimize using 30 BP garbage STAB Incinerate is absolutely a positive (those 12 levels to Flame Burst feel like 12 years).

Yamask is a mon that outside of Elesa and Clay could also be caught later even if the list assumes you catch it early on. It's absurdly weak until it evolves and while it still has coverage problems as Cofagrigus it isn't working from 55 Special Attack anymore (lower than Audino and lol Servine).

Even outside of BW1 there are Pokemon like this in DPPT. Oh look, I can get Meditite near Eterna City - yeah it's garbage because it gets Force Palm in 15 painful levels and is stuck with the likes of Rock Smash, Confusion and Hidden Power until then - just catch it at Celestic Town around the time it gets all of its good moves. Bronzor also kinda sucks until Bronzong: base 24 offenses are legendarily low even with Extrasensory.

You get the point. But yeah, some Pokemon really do suck earlygame.
I do not contest any of that. I'm just saying to note that.

Chuck

Quilava (L31): Flame Wheel for a 3HKO on Primeape (only). Poli is a no-go, even with Rollout setup on Ape. D tier matchup.

Raticate (L30): Return + Quick Attack to KO Primeape who uses Fury Swipes for some reason, 3HKO Poli. First and third try I needed no items to solo. Dynamicpunch OHKOs if ever lands (second try I lost for that), so C tier.

Scyther (L30): Wing Attack OHKO Primeape, level up to L31; Wing Attack + Quick Attack to KO Poliwrath (first hit brings him to red). Only potential problem is Hypnosis - he only used it on my third try (the other two times Mind Reader). In return, at best he 3HKOes you with Surf. A tier matchup.

Quagsire (L30): Surf 3HKO Primeape (chance of 2HKO), 4HKO Poli with Dig while Surf 3HKOs. You should set up Amnesia x2 against Primeape which should tilt the fight in your favor. B tier matchup, need some healing support (Dynamicpunch confusion and Hypnosis sleep) to win.

Pryce

Quilava (L31): Rollout GG on 2/3 separate tries. The third time, I ended up missing Rollout against Piloswine but 2HKOed through Flame Wheel and tanked 2 shots of Fury Attack. No items needed. Easy A. Might use a Guard Spec. to ensure Icy Wind speed drops don't build up and get you flinched by Headbutt, though this never happened for me (the drop happened on one try only IIRC, and no flinches happened on any try).

Raticate (L31): Return OHKOs Seel and reliably 2HKOes Dewgong, laughing off Aurora Beam. Leveled up to L32 after. 3HKOes (with a fair chance at 2HKOing) Piloswine. Blizzard is the only problem - 2HKOes Raticate after prior damage from Dewgong, though a Hyper Potion should patch you up and more or less guarantee you the victory. Didn't need it on to of three tries though. A tier.

Quagsire (L31): Prepared Amnesia 3 against Seel (you outpace him thankfully), laughing off Headbutt and Aurora Beam, then 2HKOed using Sludge Bomb. Sludge Bomb 3HKOes Gong, though Headbutt flinches - he outpaces you - can be annoying and you will need to heal either way once you're done with him. Surf 2HKOes while Blizzard and Fury Attack do very little back. Flinch shenanigans may require healing with Hyper Potion. Highly recommend a Guard Spec - Rest spam by the Seel and Dewgong if you get slower. B-tier. Don't use Dig, it just gives them more Rest opportunities.

Scyther (L31): KOes Seel with Quick Attack + Return. Levels up to L32 after. Dewgong gets 3HKOed by Return, with a fair chance of being 2HKOed. Use a Guard Spec. in the beginning to avoid Icy Wind speed drops and Aurora Beam attack drops (much rarer but happened to me on one of my tries). Can beat Seel and Dewgong more or less solo with the Guard Spec (and likely even without - their Ice-type attacks don't do that much damage), but Piloswine is a no - he gets 3HKOed by Return or Return x2 + Quick Attack x1 and destroys you in return with Blizzard. You could still win if you get lucky with Piloswine missing Blizzards and/or using Fury Attack instead with 1-2 Hyper Potions but it's very unlikely, so...C-tier.

Jasmine:

Quilava (L32): Flame Wheel GG. OHKO on Magnemite, 2HKO on Steelix. Nothing to look at here. No items needed. Easy A.

Raticate (L32): Mud-Slap 3HKO (though usually 2HKO either) Magnemite. Steelix is a no. C tier, at best.

Quagsire (L32): Speed tie with Magnemite. Dig GG, until Steelix, who get one-shotted by Rainsurf and outsped. A-tier. Ez victory, but a Bitter Berry or confusion curing item might be good (though I needed none). A tier.

Scyther (L32): Nope. I couldn't even get past Magnemite 1 - Return barely avoided 3HKO. Steelix F-tier.
 
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Vitamins seems like yet another thing that misses the point of this list: will the average playthrough drop 250k on vitamins? Prob not. If you dump 250k worth of vitamins on a team, it will perform far better than an average run using the same Pokemon. Thus, the results of a run with 250k worth of vitamins dumped on it won't yield results that are relevant and meaningful to crafting an in-game tier list. Just my thoughts.
 
I don't have an opinion on vitamins but I think it would give the one who benefits a huge advantage. Not sure how much of the vitamins that you are using too.
i bought enough to cap and test on everyone, which were around 7 Proteins and 7 Carbos - however it doesn't seem to make a difference, and ultimately it's not something we can assume on every playthrough (because some teams might need GC TMs for example), which is what made me doubtful to begin with
 
Vitamins make only a minor difference unless you are using them on a low base stat at high levels. Maximizing EVs on a Pokemon with low DVs is similar in effect to rolling a perfect Pokemon or using some Rare Candies.
Entei (40lv, 0 DV, 0 EV) - 142/97/73/77/65/85
Entei (40lv, 15 DV, 0 EV) - 154/109/85/89/77/77/97 (+12 all across the board; 8-18% boost to stats)
Entei (40lv, 0 DV, 25600 EV) - 158/113/89/93/81/101 (+16 all across the board; 11-24% boost to stats)
Entei (45lv, 0 DV, 0 EV) - 158/108/81/86/72/95 (+7 to +16 since base values are different; 10-11% boost to all stats)
25600 EVs to all stats require 60 vitamins (588 000 Pokegold).
 

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