Hail Team needs some help

Olijar

Hey, Here's a hail team I've been running. It's 7-2, mainly on surprise, I think. Haha. Give me some changes if you can see any. I do need a good Rapid Spinner. I was thinking BoltBeam Starmie? Who would you replace?

Abomasnow @ Snow Warning
172 Def, 252 Sp At, 80 Sp Def
Modest @ Lefties
Energy Ball
Substitute
Leech Seed
Blizzard

Shocking Lead I know. What really surprised me is how I killed 50-75% of leads I faced with this set. I'm not quite sure how, but this guy packs a punch.

Rotom (h) @ Levitate
252 Def, 252 Sp Def, 6 Sp. Atk
Modest @ White Herb/ Lum Berry
Overheat
Thunderbolt
Will-o-wisp
Sucker Punch


Mamoswine @ Snow Cloak
252 Atk, 252 Hp, 6 Spd
Adamant @ Bright Powder
Ice Shard
Earthquake
Body Slam
Stone Edge

Dragon/Fire/Rock counter. Nuff said.

Walrein @ Ice Body
220 HP, 128 Def, 128 Sp Def, 34 Sp Atk
Modest @ Leftovers
Blizzard
Roar
Substitute
Protect

Stallrein in his normal Glory.

Tentacruel @ Liquid Ooze
252 HP, 252 Sp Def, 6 HP
Calm @ Black Sludge
Surf
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Sludge Bomb

Supports Stallrein's Roar. Spins for my teams horrible SR problem. Surf For Heatran, what little help it is. Sludge Bomb for a different time than other team members.




My 6th spot is now undertermined. Here's the choices:

Weavile (Jolly Nature)- Sweeper, with a wide move variety. Probably Night Slash, Brick Break, Ice Punch/Shard, and Sword Dance.

Dragonite-(Naughty/Modest/Adamant)-Cleric/Sweeper/Type Coverage. Heal Bell, Fire Fang/Flamethrower, Outrage, Roost/Blizzard

Starmie-(Modest)-Bolt Beam. Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Rapid Spin.
 
Basically, in a Hail team, having 6 Ice Pokémon is never a really good idea. You'll struggle immensely against common threats, Fighting types in particular. Having one extremely fragile Fighting immunity doesn't really help you by much, especially considering you're doing about.. Nothing, against Pokémon such as Lucario, Machamp and Infernape, and the latter is in my opinion your biggest issue. There's a couple of types you GOT to resist, especially(!) Rock, Fighting, Fire and Steel. I seriously recommend getting rid of three or four Pokémon in favor of some decent resists.

Tentacruel is definitely the first thing that crosses my mind. Not only is Tentacruel a awesome counter to most Fire types, especially Infernape, but Tentacruel also provide some extremely useful Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin. The latter is a obligatory move in a Hail team imo, as Stealth Rock usually wear down a Hail team waay to easily. Toxic Spikes is awesome used in conjuction with Stallrein, who I suggest you'll keep.

A RestTalking Rotom - and I'm not speaking of the old, fragile form - is another thing that could help you out a lot. Rotom is a great counter to Metagross and Scizor in particular. In addition, you got yourself a more reliable switch on Fighting types, without having to fear a predicted Stone Edge. Unlike Froslass, Rotom is pretty bulky, and learn Will-o-Wisp. However, it does indeed need some form of recovery due Hail cancling out Leftovers.

Stallrein needs 416 HP (220 EVs iirc) to keep its SubProtect-cyclus "infinite", althrough you can reduce the HP-stat to 400 for any particular reason. I would also go with Bold nature, and maybe Roar in favor of Signal Beam, which I find pretty useless. I think Blizzard always is more powerful then Signal Beam, even if it's resisted. Roar, on the other hand, is a great way to prevent the opponent from setting up on you, which easily could occur.

Oh, and a "backup" plan incase Abomasnow shouldn't really be necessary. :p Just keep Abomasnow alive. A SubSeed set usually don't die all that easily in my experience, and is genereally a more efficient moveset rather then using Toxic+Protect. If you were to take my advice, Tentacruel and its Toxic Spikes would already cover a lot of ground. What I just love about Abomasnow and the SubSeeding set is that Grass types usually don't dare to switch in in fear of Blizzard. However, I would've tried out Ice Shard too, to actually have an answer to that pesky Skymin.. Abomasnow is perfectly capable of taking atleast one hit, unlike the rest of your team.

I would probably just ran a standard Mamoswine, too. Maybe the LO-set. It's a great way to break through Sandstorm teams, as most of them are weak to the Ground/Ice combination.

Oh well, I'll shut up. I hope my advice was for any use, and good luck with your team. :)
 
You could use some other Pokemon than Ice. More than half of your team is weak
to Rock.
Use a Pokemon that balances out all the Ice-Types. It's late and I'm tired of
writing my own RMT so I'm not helping a lot.
 
Your pokémon will last longer in battle if you invest first into HP before going for the Defenses. Against something with set amounts of damage (Seismic Toss) your pokémon will be more easily taken down. In addition to that you'd get greater Leftovers recovery.

Save Walerein which needs Surf to beat it... Heatran rips through this team. I would using one for yourself or packing a Tentacruel for the fire resistance/Toxic Spiking.

I would not suggest giving Froslass Focus Sash as you will have to deal with Stealth Rock and that really nulls it unless you gave Abomasnow Leech Seed.

Glaceon's base 130 SAtk could really use some love in the EV department. Setting up Hail would take a bit too long especially if the opponent's TTar or Hippo is still alive. If you really want to keep it give it Choice Specs. With HP Ground and just a Modest Nature without any SAtk EVs it will KO a Max HP Heatran 100% of the time.

A Rotom would be great for your team as well, but watch out for Heatran happily taking Wisps to just rip through your team. Seeing as a lot of your team is slow I would suggest using Thunder Wave if you did use one.

Your team really isn't gonig to welcome status too much at the moment, so I'd suggest pack stuff like a cleric, Restalker, etc.

I would suggest replacing Froslass as SR is so common and the set seems very situational.
 
Rag said:
Basically, in a Hail team, having 6 Ice Pokémon is never a really good idea. You'll struggle immensely against common threats, Fighting types in particular. Having one extremely fragile Fighting immunity doesn't really help you by much, especially considering you're doing about.. Nothing, against Pokémon such as Lucario, Machamp and Infernape, and the latter is in my opinion your biggest issue. There's a couple of types you GOT to resist, especially(!) Rock, Fighting, Fire and Steel. I seriously recommend getting rid of three or four Pokémon in favor of some decent resists.

Hmm. Yeah, I agree overall. I have only seen one Machamp, and he got pasted by an Articuno in a previous version of this. Lucario, however, shockingly, hasn't been much of an issue. The ones I faced have been running bulkier I think, because Weavile has outspeeded them. He has used Brick Break, and usually killed them. However, you raise very strong points. Apes are going to kill me here.

Tentacruel is definitely the first thing that crosses my mind. Not only is Tentacruel a awesome counter to most Fire types, especially Infernape, but Tentacruel also provide some extremely useful Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin. The latter is a obligatory move in a Hail team imo, as Stealth Rock usually wear down a Hail team waay to easily. Toxic Spikes is awesome used in conjuction with Stallrein, who I suggest you'll keep.

Wow I had forgotten he had can rapid spin. Excellent Idea, I'll work this into my team in conjuction with Stallrein.

A RestTalking Rotom - and I'm not speaking of the old, fragile form - is another thing that could help you out a lot. Rotom is a great counter to Metagross and Scizor in particular. In addition, you got yourself a more reliable switch on Fighting types, without having to fear a predicted Stone Edge. Unlike Froslass, Rotom is pretty bulky, and learn Will-o-Wisp. However, it does indeed need some form of recovery due Hail cancling out Leftovers.

Rotom might add some versatility I guess. I don't know if I like this yet though. I'll continue thinking about this, espeically if I keep have Scizor issues.

Stallrein needs 416 HP (220 EVs iirc) to keep its SubProtect-cyclus "infinite", althrough you can reduce the HP-stat to 400 for any particular reason. I would also go with Bold nature, and maybe Roar in favor of Signal Beam, which I find pretty useless. I think Blizzard always is more powerful then Signal Beam, even if it's resisted. Roar, on the other hand, is a great way to prevent the opponent from setting up on you, which easily could occur.

After adding Tentacruel, that sounds good to me.

Oh, and a "backup" plan incase Abomasnow shouldn't really be necessary. :p Just keep Abomasnow alive. A SubSeed set usually don't die all that easily in my experience, and is genereally a more efficient moveset rather then using Toxic+Protect. If you were to take my advice, Tentacruel and its Toxic Spikes would already cover a lot of ground. What I just love about Abomasnow and the SubSeeding set is that Grass types usually don't dare to switch in in fear of Blizzard. However, I would've tried out Ice Shard too, to actually have an answer to that pesky Skymin.. Abomasnow is perfectly capable of taking atleast one hit, unlike the rest of your team.

You really think Sub-seeding works? *has had bad expirience with it*

I would probably just ran a standard Mamoswine, too. Maybe the LO-set. It's a great way to break through Sandstorm teams, as most of them are weak to the Ground/Ice combination.

This Mamoswine is desgined to stay a little more, but he will probably get closer to standard Mamoswine at some point.

Oh well, I'll shut up. I hope my advice was for any use, and good luck with your team. :)

Yep, it helped. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Myth,

Heatran does rip this apart. I'll check back on what my change to Tentacruel does for the team about this problem.
 
Walrein
Change the spread to 220HP, 252 Def, 36 SpD. Currently you are running 252 Hp Evs, which puts your HP stat at 424. This is indivisible by 16, which means you cannot Sub/Protect stall forever. You lose 25% of your health (106HP) when you Sub, and then gain 6.25% rounded down of your HP from both Ice Body and Lefties each turn (26HP). This means that after 2 turns you only gain 26x4=104HP back, which is 2 HP less that what you started with. This may seem trivial, but it can be extremely important when you are on low health as it can mean you will eventually not be able to make a Sub. 220Hp EVs give you a HP stat of 416, which is divisible by 16, allowing you to stall indefinitely. Also, since Stallrein likes to last a while, I recommend you give it another move over Blizzard because of its limited PP. I suggest either Surf or Ice Beam / Icy Wind. Also, get rid of Signal Beam, use Roar.
 
Try giving Tentacruel the Analysis Spread:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tentacruel

*Under "Support"

However, replace Ice Beam with Blizzard (b/c of Hail), and Surf with Hydro Pump (for power). That way you can remove the Special Attack EVs, and invest them into either Speed or Special Defense, I use that version on Hail teams and the base power more than makes up for the 24 lost Special Attack.
 
I actually prefer Rotom-F (The Fridge), with Blizzard/Thunderbolt/Sleep Talk/Rest over Frosslass. It's more durable, and also fits the Hail Team with Blizzard, not to mention it's not actually an Ice Type.

Put Scizor over Weavile. Not only is Scizor more durable then Weavile, he helps to eliminate some of the weaknesses this team has, and actually provides priority moves of a different type.

Glaceon seems out of place if this team is a pure stall hail team, but if it's not a pure stall team it's ok. Suitable replacements include Tentacruel, Zapdos, or Heatran. You might want to try Shaymin (not Skymin) or Celebi, but bear in mind that they're both weak to fire, which your team is already completely weak to.
 
Scizor is also weak to fire...

Use a Swampert over Weavile (resists Fire, Rock, & Steel as well!), and it can abuse Blizzard too with its 85 Special Attack.

Its EQ alone kills Fire, Rock and Steel types.

Mixpert@ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpA
Nature: Relaxed
~ Earthquake
~ Blizzard*
~ Hydro Pump
~ Stealth Rock / Roar


Use Tentacruel over Glaceon

Support Tentacruel
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 204 HP / 96 SpA / 172 SpD / 36 Spe
Nature: Calm

~ Hydro Pump
~ Blizzard
~ Rapid Spin
~ Toxic Spikes


Use Rotom-F over Froslass


Rotom-F @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs:252 HP / 136 Speed / 120
Nature: Calm
-Discharge
-Blizzard
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Levitate works great with Rotom-F because it can switch into Forretress alot easier. Imagine if Forretress switched into Tentacruel when it was setting up Toxic Spikes. Forretress is either going to use Explosion, Rapid Spin, or most likely: Earthquake. Rotom-F is immune to all of those attacks, so really, there is no risk in sending Rotom-F in.

Rotom-F even resists Gyro Ball, something that Froslass is weak to, so paired with Tentacruel, Rotom-F works perfectly.


Perhaps even swap in Jirachi for Wish Support. Jirachi is resistant to Steel, and Rock Attacks, making it also able to handle attacks normally aimed at Abamosnow, while Abamosnow can take Earthquakes directed at Jirachi.

Try the: Wish / U-turner (probably use Reflect).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top