flying press is better then high jump kick because double typed and it has more coverage unless your gonna hav a flying gem+ acrobatics tactic. otherwise your could just hav like rock slide fill in for the flying type move.and i was just saying about the fighting gem if it comes out in like z or something. and yes i was talking about in like a multi/double battle. hawlucha is really good if you pair it with an element gem.
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Pokémon Hawlucha
- Thread starter Molk
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Well, I understand most of what you said, but....
You don't understand how good High Jump Kick is, do you? High Jump Kick is the move that people shit themselves in fear with when they see something like a Mega Medicham about to come in and fuck them up.
^Now replace that scenario with something that is faster, really, really fast, and then you'll understand how good High Jump Kick is and why Hawlucha absolutely needs it. Also, I don't think we can talk about theoretical things like gems at this point.
ya true i guess high jump kick does have a base power of 130 while flying press only has 80 BUT DONT GET ME WRONG I USE HIGH JUMP KICK ALL THE TIME im just saying flying press is basicly a 2 for 1 deal(even better with swords dance). oh and hawlucha only has 18 more base speed then mega medicham.
honesly, i do like the high jump kick though. paired with sky attack and power herb is destructive. honesly i do know how powerful high jump kick is. scrafty paired with it is sooo awesome. it can practly 1 shot anything.oh and going back to the protect/detect thing, its good to have it because of the massive amount of shell smashers which can demolish a hawucha(im sorry if this didnt make sence, i was watching football while doing this)
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Problem with Flying Press is, it actually hits for neutral damage at best on a lot of things that you would want to use either Fighting or Flying on. Neutral on Bug, rock, and steel, while resisted by poison, electric, flying, and psychic.
I love Flying Press so very much, but it really can't replace either Acrobatics or HJK in that slot. Hawlucha can OHKO a lot of Pokemon from many of those types, either unboosted or with one SD, using either HJK or Acro, that can survive a +2 Flying Press because of the poor type coverage.
Now, if Hawlucha gained double STAB on it, that'd be completely different and utterly amazing.
Someone go throw this thing on things like Smeargle to see what their animations look like...
For Unburden sets, do they need to run max speed? I figure you could probably sacrifice some speed for bulk (what little bulk you've got) because Hawlucha already sits at a very nice speed tier. He's still sadly outsped by things like Greninja, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, 'Zam, Noivern and Weavile, but an Unburden boost essentially makes him scarfed without being delegated to one attack. But his immediate speed is still nice so... do people still go for full speed instead?
I feel that if your team has sufficient checks to the aforementioned Pokemon that outspeed Hawlucha, you could use Hawlucha with Limber instead. Unburden is cool as hell and Hawlucha looks like it's poster boy and all, but it's not always necessary. Hawlucha's speed tier lets it do amazing things like revenge many of the Megas without a boost. It's not stopping Mega Pinsir any time soon though (unless you give it that anti-flying berry, but that's situational, and it doesn't help too much against Talonflame either).
I think Hawlucha's supportive options should be further discussed, as this thread has almost been exclusively about the 2 STAB + 2 Misc. sets (though I feel these are the best general Hawlucha sets) and some gimmicky power herb ones, with a bit of Baton Pass here and there.
Hawlucha has some great anti-lead options. It's got access to Encore, Taunt, Baton Pass, as well as plenty of boosting moves. In this regard, it can do a lot of what Mienshao can do, but with better speed. Hawlucha can be tailor made to hard counter dual screen Klefki as well (Limber, Brick Break, Taunt, Encore all make the set of keys wish it was never born) but this is generally a waste of Hawlucha's capabilities.
Let's also discuss the things that generally can get past Hawlucha in OU. Aegislash and Talonflame had been mentioned all throughout the thread (though Talonflame is kind of a shallow check who risks getting KO'd on the switch if rocks are up, so it's better suited to revenging Hawlucha). On the topic of Aegislash, the mixed-attacker sets are definitely ones to watch out for, as there may not even be any mind game shenanigans if they simply fire off Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak after switching in on anything you did. Though you could run a gimmicky fling set to try and catch it off guard, your best bet is probably just to let someone else handle Aegislash. While you can play games with SD sets, Hawlucha does not want to take any hits from Aegislash really, and shouldn't bother staying in. Though if you really want to try beating Aegislash with Hawlucha, you can attempt to use Me First to hit it with a 1.5x Shadow Ball. Though I doubt this KOs shield form with Hawlucha's univested special attacking stat.
What other things give Hawlucha problems? I can see Landorus-T being a huge thorn in our flying friend's side. Intimidate + resistance to high jump kick means relying on Acrobatics for damage, which Landorus-T can definitely tank. Hawlucha may not be weak to Earthquake or Stone Edge, but some variants of Landorus-T carry hidden power ice, which is not fun to take. Hawlucha CAN itself pack Hidden Power Ice (it's special attack is pretty awful though), but other than Ground/Flying types, you'll probably just want to smack things hard with +2 Acrobatics or something.
I doubt Hawlucha enjoys taking Slowbro head on either, and it would be more prudent to simply U-Turn or Baton Pass out against it, rather than risk Scald burns or simply getting wrecked by Ice Beam/Psyshock. Gliscor can be troubling thanks to it's good defense and similarity to Landorus-T, but since so many people forgo attacking moves other than Earthquake on Gliscor, you may end up being immune to Gliscor just by taunting it.
Hawlucha's pretty hard to switch into, and it can mess up defensive 'mons with Encore, Taunt, and it's plethora of support options. But Hawlucha is pretty easy to revenge kill. While a lot of things are 2HKO'd by +2 Hawlucha, most things can endure that initial hit and finish it off. Scarfers beat Hawlucha if it isn't boosted by unburden, and it can easily be worn down throughout the battle to be picked off by priority somewhere along the line.
I feel that if your team has sufficient checks to the aforementioned Pokemon that outspeed Hawlucha, you could use Hawlucha with Limber instead. Unburden is cool as hell and Hawlucha looks like it's poster boy and all, but it's not always necessary. Hawlucha's speed tier lets it do amazing things like revenge many of the Megas without a boost. It's not stopping Mega Pinsir any time soon though (unless you give it that anti-flying berry, but that's situational, and it doesn't help too much against Talonflame either).
I think Hawlucha's supportive options should be further discussed, as this thread has almost been exclusively about the 2 STAB + 2 Misc. sets (though I feel these are the best general Hawlucha sets) and some gimmicky power herb ones, with a bit of Baton Pass here and there.
Hawlucha has some great anti-lead options. It's got access to Encore, Taunt, Baton Pass, as well as plenty of boosting moves. In this regard, it can do a lot of what Mienshao can do, but with better speed. Hawlucha can be tailor made to hard counter dual screen Klefki as well (Limber, Brick Break, Taunt, Encore all make the set of keys wish it was never born) but this is generally a waste of Hawlucha's capabilities.
Let's also discuss the things that generally can get past Hawlucha in OU. Aegislash and Talonflame had been mentioned all throughout the thread (though Talonflame is kind of a shallow check who risks getting KO'd on the switch if rocks are up, so it's better suited to revenging Hawlucha). On the topic of Aegislash, the mixed-attacker sets are definitely ones to watch out for, as there may not even be any mind game shenanigans if they simply fire off Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak after switching in on anything you did. Though you could run a gimmicky fling set to try and catch it off guard, your best bet is probably just to let someone else handle Aegislash. While you can play games with SD sets, Hawlucha does not want to take any hits from Aegislash really, and shouldn't bother staying in. Though if you really want to try beating Aegislash with Hawlucha, you can attempt to use Me First to hit it with a 1.5x Shadow Ball. Though I doubt this KOs shield form with Hawlucha's univested special attacking stat.
What other things give Hawlucha problems? I can see Landorus-T being a huge thorn in our flying friend's side. Intimidate + resistance to high jump kick means relying on Acrobatics for damage, which Landorus-T can definitely tank. Hawlucha may not be weak to Earthquake or Stone Edge, but some variants of Landorus-T carry hidden power ice, which is not fun to take. Hawlucha CAN itself pack Hidden Power Ice (it's special attack is pretty awful though), but other than Ground/Flying types, you'll probably just want to smack things hard with +2 Acrobatics or something.
I doubt Hawlucha enjoys taking Slowbro head on either, and it would be more prudent to simply U-Turn or Baton Pass out against it, rather than risk Scald burns or simply getting wrecked by Ice Beam/Psyshock. Gliscor can be troubling thanks to it's good defense and similarity to Landorus-T, but since so many people forgo attacking moves other than Earthquake on Gliscor, you may end up being immune to Gliscor just by taunting it.
Hawlucha's pretty hard to switch into, and it can mess up defensive 'mons with Encore, Taunt, and it's plethora of support options. But Hawlucha is pretty easy to revenge kill. While a lot of things are 2HKO'd by +2 Hawlucha, most things can endure that initial hit and finish it off. Scarfers beat Hawlucha if it isn't boosted by unburden, and it can easily be worn down throughout the battle to be picked off by priority somewhere along the line.
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wait, its not double STAB? i though it was because its flying and fighting type........ then screw flying press HJK for dat win
Flying Press only checks Fighting type for STAB. If a Flying type somehow used it, such as a Pidgey using Mirror Move, it wouldn't get STAB.
that sucks thxs for clearing it up
So how dangerous is using HJK in Doubles? What other options does Hawlucha have for strong Fighting moves?
I've been using Hawlucha as a main guy on my doubles team and it hasn't bitten me in the butt at all. HJK hasn't been too risky for me yet. You have to be good at predicting who is going to protect though, because missing one is a guarantee he's done. As far as other fighting moves he only gets..what, Flying Press? I think that's the only other decently high BP fighting move he has. And it's way too gimmicky to be helpful. The dual typing costs you a hit that should be super effective more often than it helps in my experience.
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About all he has aside from HJK is Brick Break. I'd say HJK is moderately more hazardous to use in Doubles because Protect is more common there, but he can make up for that with Rock Slide.
One of Hawlucha's biggest drawbacks is poor movepool, sadly. Acro/HJK is utterly amazing coverage but they're pretty much literally his only primary offensive options.
One of Hawlucha's biggest drawbacks is poor movepool, sadly. Acro/HJK is utterly amazing coverage but they're pretty much literally his only primary offensive options.
I feel Hawlucha is far more suited to a support role in doubles. He's fast enough to get up Quick Guard and out speed most other users and because of its new mechanics, its a nice check to pranksters and Taloneflame's Brave Bird. It has a reliable recovery in Roost, and Brick Break can be used to break down the screens.
Hawlucha @ Leftovers
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Quick Guard
- Brick Break
- Roost
- U-turn
I've been using this set on my VGC's team, and its been pretty reliable. It shuts down all Fake Out attempts, allowing who is my teammate to attack unhindered.
Hawlucha @ Leftovers
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Quick Guard
- Brick Break
- Roost
- U-turn
I've been using this set on my VGC's team, and its been pretty reliable. It shuts down all Fake Out attempts, allowing who is my teammate to attack unhindered.
How about posting the Power Herb set as flying gem isn't even released.
I've actually been running a power herb, sky attack, unburden set that has been working quite well. Also this thing is a beast in UU. With most priority users out of the picture, this thing is something that will often ruin somebody's day.
i find it useful so you can put some EVs elsewhere other than speed even 0 speed unburden boost is fast as hell
I've recently trained myself a Hawlucha, and I love it. I run a set that's either overly gimmicky or totally spectacular.
Hawlucha@Power Herb
Jolly Nature, EVs 252 atk, 252 spe, 4 HP.
Unburden ability
- Sky Attack
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Acrobatics
In this set, the goal is to open with sky attack (if not resisted), to activate unburden -- you'll outspeed pretty much everything after the unburden boost, and you have a chance of flinching the opponent, too! After that, you use Acrobatics, as it gets a boost when the power herb is consumed. If you find yourself against something that could counter you, Hawlucha can use U-turn with super-speed to switch to something else. I run this as a volt-turn team with a Manectric, so if someone tries to thunder Hawlucha, he absorbs it with lightning rod! If you're going mega-manectric, he's also pretty good because he can volt-turn intimidate the enemies repeatedly.
Hawlucha@Power Herb
Jolly Nature, EVs 252 atk, 252 spe, 4 HP.
Unburden ability
- Sky Attack
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Acrobatics
In this set, the goal is to open with sky attack (if not resisted), to activate unburden -- you'll outspeed pretty much everything after the unburden boost, and you have a chance of flinching the opponent, too! After that, you use Acrobatics, as it gets a boost when the power herb is consumed. If you find yourself against something that could counter you, Hawlucha can use U-turn with super-speed to switch to something else. I run this as a volt-turn team with a Manectric, so if someone tries to thunder Hawlucha, he absorbs it with lightning rod! If you're going mega-manectric, he's also pretty good because he can volt-turn intimidate the enemies repeatedly.
The big issue with this set is that you're running Sky Attack and a Power Herb, both, for a boost that you're explicitly not planning on keeping. I'd almost say that Limber/Mold Breaker with SD would be preferable on a U-Turning Hawlucha. That way you can at least threaten a sweep lategame once you've cleared out the few things that wall Hawlucha.
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Eh? Last time I checked unburden's speed boost was lost once you switched out. I don't think that mechanic changed...
...And I've been ninja'd
...dammit I'm dumb, you're right, it's when the user loses an item that it gets the boost, not just not having an item. Got acrobatics' mechanics confused with it
S'ok. This is why I just run itemless HJK/Acro/AD/Encore Hawlucha.
That Encore is pretty nice, especially if you can manage to Encore something like King's Shield. Aegislash can counter Hawlucha normally, but even Shield Forme splinters under a +6 Acrobatics or two, as does... everything.
Personally, I like using this guy in UU with Hawlucha@Sitrus Berry 252 Atk 252Speed 4HP Jolly with Hone Claws/Hi Jump Kick/Acrobatics/Rock Slide
silver97
GUNDELEROS WE DO THE PATTO DI SANGUE
damn this poor wrestler needs the gems so bad. if it manage to setup a swords dance then it becomes very difficult to deal with him because unburden boost gives him an awesoome speed that can be beaten only by priority moves or vvery few pokemon that gain a boost in speed with speed boost. this could be a very threatening pokemon if only the gems were available.
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