Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]

Matthew

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damn i really like this meta. current iterations of aggro shaman are much more midrange than they used to be, and even though their core set of cards are busted, at least you have more time to respond to them now.

yogg swinging games is dumb, but most of the time it's like a pretty good board clear that might give you a secret or two. not justifying it cuz it is dumb and it shouldn't have been printed, but at least in practice it's usually ok.

i don't mind losing to a worse player when they aren't playing outright terribly. hearthstone is a card game, and there is inherent rng in every card game (draw order at least) and matchup in most of them. i mind feeling like i never had a chance, like when a discardlock high rolls or a tempo mage nutdraws.
The first part of your post is a little funny considering that VS data reaper report puts mid-range shaman at a 56% win rate. That's higher than patron. Also, according to their data, there is no bad match-up aside from the mirror. You can't react to shaman, they can always react to you.
 

ryan

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right, my point is that unlike old undertaker decks or miracle rogue or whatever, it's not "you're dead by turn 5" so whether you can or can't react to them, you at least have time to. it's a more "honest" deck whether it's broken or not.
 

ryan

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you're playing one of the right decks to get there!

whats the meta looking like up there right now? ive split my time between wild and standard and haven't played too hard, so i'm chillin around like 12 in both
 
you're playing one of the right decks to get there!

whats the meta looking like up there right now? ive split my time between wild and standard and haven't played too hard, so i'm chillin around like 12 in both
For the last little while (@ rank 5) I've mostly been queuing into various Shaman and Druid decks, with a little bit of Tempo Mage and Hunter in there as well. Kinda funny but I've been enjoying playing against the Shamans the most, there's a lot of people (myself included) who have switched from face to midrange shaman. There's a lot of strong stuff in there but it's much more fun than getting blown out by Call of the Wild on turn 8 or Yogg on turn 10.

I played a little dragon warrior the night before so I started that up again at Rank 5 today and managed to win all my matches. One zoolock, one midrange shaman, mostly control and dragon warriors, and one poor soul who was running Barnes Hunter that got Yshaarj early and Barnes late. Seems like a bit of a fluke that I didn't run into any druids but I'm sure it's just variance and I'll see more tomorrow.

I've played something like 3 games of Wild since it came out so I've no idea what's going on there, and I haven't seen many resources about it. How is it? Seems to me like N'Zoth might be a little ridiculous in that format.
 

ryan

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you'd think so, but outside of n'zoth secret pally, which hasn't been that common itself, it's mostly just a bunch of experimental decks and shamans. the stuff that synergizes with n'zoth (belcher, boom, shredder), is so strong itself that you're better off just curving out on people like in the pre-standard meta. or just aggro shaman-ing everyone.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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While I do hate the metagame I got to legend this season, opposed to last (the first!), and ran a control warrior deck from 4 to legend.




The list is honestly probably one of the strongest I've played since Patron Warrior. It is favorable against the Yogg-Maly Druid, Mage, and I'd dare say Shaman if you play the match-up right (still probably 50-50 or 45-55). I think this is the only deck which I think Yogg is okay in. You never spam spells, you are trying to control the board. Yogg ends up to be a third Brawl + a removal spell a lot of the time, but I think it fits the build really well. Elise is there for a secondary win condition if you play against a control deck. Regardless I underestimated Ironforge Portal; that card is strong. It is no Shieldmaiden but it is still strong in its own right given the relative strength of four drops.

edit:

My list used to run Sylvanas but then VLPS added me and spoke how it was bad compared to a second Bash. I think I agree in this meta.
 
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Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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Double post fuck it, the standard meta is weird right now. Mid-range shaman is the best deck but people are playing weird lists with it. Yogg maly druid is amazing but falls to the warrior list I was running. This is a meta that I've not seen. Everything is cancer yogg but aggro is not as impressive, and to top that no aggro list is dominate against everything else.

This meta still sucks, that's my final stance

Edit: not a double post
 
just finished up batstone and man that was a sweet tourney. pretty interesting that shaman was still top dog in it tho.

what id like to ask of you guys is: if you could bring back one card from wild and remove one card from standard what would it be? for example, i would bring back belcher and take out tuskarr
 
yea tuskarrs ass lol

initially i would have said loatheb because i really like how the card encourages some form of counterplay. however i'm scared that it'd lead to more of boring curvestone in the meta rn because reactionary spells are the only way to deal with the ridiculous power of certain minions (alex's champion, preventing a houndmaster play, etc.). I really do miss healbot :pirate:
 

ryan

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yea it's gotta be healbot, lightbomb, loatheb, or belcher. prolly not belcher tho cuz it literally enables nzoth decks for every class.

i've played a bit of that control warr list card for card -1 ichor +sylv, it's definitely strong, but it's scary sometimes to play it because you end up answering literally every card in the opponent's deck so fucking often. i beat a midshaman where at one point i literally was just removing all of his topdecks until i pulled an ironforge portal and started beating his face with a tomb pillager. like the threat density is non-existent because you're playing the elise game, but it's even more non-existent than older elise warrior lists because you're playing the elise + yogg game where you're going absolutely balls out full removal. but there's no way to get around it in such a list because the more threats you add, the weaker the overall strategy gets.

basically what i'm saying is that the deck is strong and the main thing i have against it isn't necessarily even a game-deciding bad thing when it pops up.
 
was thinking about this earlier and thought i might ask here: has blizzard ever gave a real answer as to why they so poorly they decide on nerfing cards? as im sure youre all aware, blizzard rarely seems to take advantage of their fully-digital nature and nerf overpowered cards (which is baffling in its own right,) but the few times they do nerf things they get pummeled into the dirt. why does bladeflurry get nerfed beyond recognition but shaman, already the best class by a good margin, was given the tools it needed to beat one of its poorest matchups in zoolock. by no means am i disregarding the fact that blizzard is a multimillion dollar business and know what theyre doing from a moneymaking standpoint, but they just dont seem to listen to...well, anyone really.

written on mobile so sorry for weird writing but goddamn ladder is like 40% shaman for me and its insufferable
 
was thinking about this earlier and thought i might ask here: has blizzard ever gave a real answer as to why they so poorly they decide on nerfing cards? as im sure youre all aware, blizzard rarely seems to take advantage of their fully-digital nature and nerf overpowered cards (which is baffling in its own right,) but the few times they do nerf things they get pummeled into the dirt. why does bladeflurry get nerfed beyond recognition but shaman, already the best class by a good margin, was given the tools it needed to beat one of its poorest matchups in zoolock. by no means am i disregarding the fact that blizzard is a multimillion dollar business and know what theyre doing from a moneymaking standpoint, but they just dont seem to listen to...well, anyone really.

written on mobile so sorry for weird writing but goddamn ladder is like 40% shaman for me and its insufferable
Iirc their official stance has been that they dont want to nerf cards because it feels bad for players to come back to the game and find that their cards do different things, which makes them change their decks and whatnot to account for any changes.

Truthfully, its more along the lines that Blizzard wants the card developers to be pumping out content for the next expansion rather than fiddling with balance. The nerfs to Blade Flurry, Force of Nature, and the like only happened because they're in the classic set, and basically defined how certain classes played (all good rogue decks involved deadly poison hit blade flurry combos for board clears and finishers, combo druid is stupid). The rest of the cards wont see changes because they'll be cycled out of play at the end of their run and not enough people play Wild for Blizzard to care. There's also issues in that people who play at a certain level see things than others do, so you'll have a ton of people complaining about 4 mana 7/7 while Rank 20s ask for Priest nerfs, and Blizzard cares a lot about what the very casual players think. It makes it a lot easier for them to make no changes and allow seasons to take their toll rather than buffing or nerfing things and risking pissing off either side.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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Just to add a little to that a no high rank / legend player is not going to see how horrible Yogg and Tuskarr are, but it becomes apparent when you get to that "next level" of play.

People that post in this thread, on the internet forums as a whole, are not average players. We have many X legend players here and apparently that is less than 1% of the game. People in rank 15 (and that is their rank) don't understand the meta.

Edit:
According to vS shaman is only 22.5 percent of the game at the moment (with almost a 54% win percentage), however a blizzard employee said that shaman is only about half of what HunterTaker used to be (which puts it at about 12.5% but I think they're including low (dumpster) legend and high (15+) ranks in those numbers.
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
Chakki isn't a bad player, in fact he's quite good, however his personality sucks.

He's a HCT champion this year

Edit:
Dreamhack, not HCT
 
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ryan

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wtf i love chakki

blizzard legit never nerfs rng cards, and when they do it isn't the rng part of the card they nerf. if we never got a shredder or dr. boom nerf, i think it's fair to assume we're never seeing a yogg or tuskarr nerf. it's retarded but what can you do. they might start taking more of a batstone approach; brode was stoked on the idea when firebat announced batstone, and they used to be very against banning cards for tournaments (everyone wanted to ban pagle and tink from tournaments before they were nerfed, and blizzard was not happy about it).
 
Decided to buy the Welcome bundle with $5 bucks that someone gave me on my EU account that I never spend my own money on. This was the result.



Class legendary was Grommash Hellscream. Me and the homie go way back though, so not surprised (4th Grommash I've opened in my lifetime).

Still can't build any standard Control Warrior list on EU though unless C'Thun minus Vek'lor :(

BTW does anyone here have an EU account? Add me if you do - Mulligan#1429. I have no friends there :(
 

ryan

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does anyone else think spirit claws is busted? like most decent cards feel busted in shaman so it's hard to look at it objectively but it feels impossible for anything to stick early-game against other shamans unless you're shaman too and you slam totem golem. midshaman is impossible if you cant keep up with their early board cuz then they just spiral out with thunderbluff unless you're warrior and pop a brawl, and with spirit claws (and bolt + rockbiter + sticky early drops) it feels impossible to contend their board. but i mean spirit claws basically made midshaman an archetype so it's an easy thing to point to and say that this is the cause of this specific issue with shaman, obviously there are many.
 

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