Heatran (specially defensive)

[Curtains]

I think the problem with this set is that its not really going to be doing anything more than a rest talk roar heatran would do. Without recovery your not switching in alot. Shitty speed plus no recovery is not really a wall , this is more like a bait set to lure in special attacks but it does not do that well because it can't ko much .To be honest whirlwind snorlax with rest is better with the better typing and shit, and if you want to set up rocks use the regular shuca set. Bottom line is rest talk heatran or whirlwind snorlax out class this set a lot if your looking from a stall perspective.

 

[Luf]

I think the problem with this set is that its not really going to be doing anything more than a rest talk roar heatran would do. Without recovery your not switching in alot. Shitty speed plus no recovery is not really a wall , this is more like a bait set to lure in special attacks but it does not do that well because it can't ko much .To be honest whirlwind snorlax with rest is better with the better typing and shit, and if you want to set up rocks use the regular shuca set. Bottom line is rest talk heatran or whirlwind snorlax out class this set a lot if your looking from a stall perspective.

I lol'd at your post. Did you even bother to READ what other people posted?

First of all, this isn't a bait set. It's a tank. How is something labeled "Specially Defensive" a bait set?

Second: This is meant to set up Stealth Rock outside of the lead position, check threats such as Gengar and Scarf Heatran, and spread status. Scarf Heatran does 88.1% - 104.7% to this set. It can then OHKO Scarf Heatran.

Third: How is Snorlax's typing better? Heatran has useful resistances (Steel, Bug, Dark, Ice, Grass, Dragon, Ghost) and immunities (Fire). Sure, Heatran has a 4x weakness to Ground, but that is obviously made up by it's number of useful resistances and immunities. Heatran sure takes a hell lot less than Snorlax does from a CB Scizor U-turn.

Four: How does Heatran have shitty speed? With the current spread, it hits 190 speed. Heatran could simply invest 128 Speed EVs and use Taunt to render CroCune worthless.

 

[Curtains]

I don't see whats funny. This set does not tank anything and it shows from the calcs posted.When you think of the top special attacks of OU what are they? surf, thunderbolt ,earth power, ice beam, grass knot flamethower and the hidden powers. Now think of the various pokemon that run these moves.80% of the time they have another move to severely damage heatran. so what im i walling? zapdos? Ima die anyway so why not max out my speed and spA and have a fightin chance in the end game.And those calcs are not taking in Steath rock which is an auto ko since this is out of the lead position.Shuca heatran does that situation better. Shuca heatran and and roar heatran are better than this set in setting up SR and stall respectively.
190 speed is ass. now more shit can outspeed me like dragonite and crocune and breloom.

 

[Luf]

To prove this set is viable, I will show you some damage calculations.

LO Offensive Cune Hydro Pump vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <71.5% - 84.5%>
Timid LO Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <61.1% - 72%>
Scarf Naive Heatran Earth Power vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <70.5% - 83.9%>
Modest LO Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <38.9% - 45.9%>
LO Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <76.7% - 90.7%>

 

[panamaxis]

Yeah I know this set works well though I would personally slash Protect with Roar.

I think the problem with this set is that its not really going to be doing anything more than a rest talk roar heatran would do.

SR

Without recovery your not switching in alot.

I disagree, especially if you choose to run protect

Shitty speed plus no recovery is not really a wall , this is more like a bait set to lure in special attacks but it does not do that well because it can't ko much.

Not much is exactly shrugging off lava plume with no worries

To be honest whirlwind snorlax with rest is better with the better typing and shit, and if you want to set up rocks use the regular shuca set. Bottom line is rest talk heatran or whirlwind snorlax out class this set a lot if your looking from a stall perspective.

Snorlax doesn't get SR and it allows skarmory to set up on it, rotom has an easier time beating it, basically they play very differently.

Toxic or Will-o-wisp can be used over Stealth Rock.

I'd rather first and foremost mention that they can be used over Roar / Protect and then say if your team already has SR covered then it can go over that. Also its probably worth mentioning flamethrower becomes a good choice if one chooses to run will-o-wisp.
Anyway...
QC APPROVED (1/3)

 

[remlabmez]

lava plume / roar / protect / earthpower would be my choices on this set, I have tested this set and it works very well on a stall team. I will approve after the OP gets fixed

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

lava plume / roar / protect / earthpower would be my choices on this set, I have tested this set and it works very well on a stall team. I will approve after the OP gets fixed

Where would SR be slashed on this (if at all)? Would it be like Pert, with Protect / Stealth Rock? Or would it just get a mention in AC? Personally, I would rather rock with something else considering the lack of recovery and 4MS, but it still deserves a slot.

 

[Delko]

Updated to OP!

lava plume / roar / protect / earthpower would be my choices on this set, I have tested this set and it works very well on a stall team. I will approve after the OP gets fixed

I'm using this set on him as well as I have Hippowdon to set up Stealth Rock, but as SDS said Stealth Rock deserves a (mentioned) slot in Heatran.

Panamaxis, thanks for your imput.
I slashed in Protect with Roar, Toxic / Wow are suggested instead of Roar / Protect and Flamethrower is mentioned as the attacking move when one opted for Wow.

EDIT:

LO Offensive Cune Hydro Pump vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <71.5% - 84.5%>
Timid LO Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <61.1% - 72%>
Scarf Naive Heatran Earth Power vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <70.5% - 83.9%>
Modest LO Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <38.9% - 45.9%>
LO Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran <76.7% - 90.7%>

While these calcs prove the special bulk of Heatran it is still not suggested to keep Heatran in against Suicune, Zapdos or Starmie.
Heatran can't' do much in return to them anyway and while they have a way to recover themselves Heatran doesn't.

 

[Setsuna]

I would like to see Protect be the main slash in the third moveslot, not SR. Also, good to see that you added more useful calcs to the list that SDS and I provided.

The OP looks good now.

Or

Approved (2/3)

 

[Delko]

Thanks Setsuna.. Protect is now main slash in third moveslot.

 

[remlabmez]

Where would SR be slashed on this (if at all)? Would it be like Pert, with Protect / Stealth Rock? Or would it just get a mention in AC? Personally, I would rather rock with something else considering the lack of recovery and 4MS, but it still deserves a slot.

I would rather mention it in the AC, I really dont like SR on this tran at all, but I can live with it being slashed I suppose.

Anyways

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I'm backing SR being in AC on this, since Protect is huge for providing pinch recovery and scouting opponents. As such, it'd probably be a good idea to get the input of one more QC member on the placement of SR for this set.

I'll let someone else like panamaxis or Philip7086 chime in on the placement of SR before this gets its third stamp, because it's a fairly important issue.

 

[Setsuna]

Yeah Stealth Rock should definitely be AC material (I missed that when I checked this).

I'm going to move the topic now though, and get that little detail fixed ASAP, Delko. Other than that, good job!

 

[Delko]

SR is added to AC.
Thanks for the help everyone ^^

 

[Stellar]

Name: Special Defense
move 1: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 2: Earth Power / Dragon Pulse
move 3: Protect
move 4: Roar / Stealth Rock
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD

I've been testing this set out extensively on a team I've been using and Calm with max SpD is really the best option right now. It helps a TON when switching in against Rotom and Jolteon and lets you actually check Gengar if need be (without relying on Focus Blast miss). I'm using Stealth Rock in place of Roar and it does fine, so I would vouch for the above set up being the best. I'm also using Dragon Pulse because it helps a ton to be able to check CB Dragonite or Scarf Flygon locked into Outrage.

 

[Delko]

Thanks Stellar for the suggestions. I did add Stealth Rock and Dragon Pulse in AC instead of of slashing them in.

Status: needs proofreading

 

[jc104]

Name: Heatran (Specially Defensive)
move 1: Lava Plume/ Flamethrower
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Protect
move 4: Roar
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Ability: Flash Fire

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses more on Heatrans decent bulk and unique typing instead of his offensive power. As such this Heatran is best used on teams with a stallish approach. Although Heatran lacks an instant recovery move, which that is usually preferred on a special sponge, he (you can now, according to new guidelines, use either “it” or “he” but you must be consistent within your analysis. I will go with “he” as this seems to be what you have used the most) is sturdy enough to take a couple of special hits. Besides, Heatran’s base 130 Special Attack stat makes him a very difficult Pokemon to switch into even without investment.</p>

<p>Lava plume is a very reliable the preferred move to use on this set; it has high PP and a 30% chance to burn which is always a benefit for a specially defensive Pokemon. Of course Flamethrower is a reliable move too and can be used as well also an option due to its higher Base Power. Earth Power is a great move to use alongside Heatran’s STAB move as it provides decent coverage, especially against opposing Heatran trying to come in on a Fire move to a get obtain a Flash Fire boost. Protect has two functions: it allows Heatran to scout Choice users, reducing the need for prediction and thus making it less necessary to make difficult predictions, and it gives Heatran an additional turn for Leftovers recovery whilst in the meantime also letting your opponent take extra residual damage another 12% from potential burn damage. Roar is another useful move on this set, especially with entry hazard support. (I would expand on this a little)</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Bellow are some damage calculations to show the amazing special bulk Heatran possesses.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran:</li>
<li>Scarftran Earth Power- 70.5% - 83.9%</li>
<li>Scarf Shaymin Earth Power- 59.1% - 70.5%</li>
<li>LO Shaymin Earth Power- 76.7% - 91.2%</li>
<li>LO Gengar Focus Blast- 61.1% - 72%</li>
<li>LO Jolteon HP Fighting- 31.6% - 37.3%</li>
<li>Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt- 37.3% - 43.8%</li>
</ul>

<p>An alternative EV spread can be used. A spread of 252 / HP 156 SpD / 100 Spe will still give Heatran decent defensive capabilities while the extra speed allows him to outrun Rotom-A who run no speed EVs that didn't invest in Speed. (you might want to mention why you want to outrun Rotom; it is a pokemon that can do very little to you)</p>

<p>Heatran has a huge number of support moves he can utilize. Either Toxic or Will-o-wisp can easily go over Protect or Roar. It should be mentioned that if you decide to use use Will-o-wisp, Flamethrower will obviously should be your main offensive move. Stealth Rock is an option on Heatran as well if you desperately need someone to lay it down. Taunt is also useful as always and can can find its way into the moveset of this Heatran as well. (explain why it is useful) Rest provides Heatran with a somewhat reliable recovery move but two turns of sleep is a letdown and makes Heatran setup fodder for a variety of set up Pokemon.</p>

<p>Offensively, Heatran also has also access to a ton variety of useful moves. Fire Blast or Overheat can be used if you want a powerful STAB move but on a defensive Pokemon prefers a reliable move with decent PP is preferred over sheer power any day. Using Dragon Pulse instead of Earth Power can help against Dragonite and Flygon locked into Outrage. And Hidden Power Electric and Hidden Power Grass can also help against Swampert and Gyarados respectively. (full stop)</p>

<p>Since this Heatran is a defensive version, (Toxic) Spikes are greatly appreciated. A Rapid Spin user Spinner would also be is also nice as Heatran would needs as much HP as possible to maintain his defensive capabilities. Forretress does both of these things while also luring out Fire-type moves so that Heatran can get a safe switch-in, making Forretress a great teammate. Since Heatran lacks a reliable recovery move, Wish support is a good idea. Vaporeon can do this, and so can Blissey, but she needs to be aware of watch out for the shared Fighting weakness to Fighting-type moves. RestTalk Roar Gyarados also makes a great teammate as he covers Heatran’s weaknesses quite well. Intimidate also helps in covering Heatran weaker physical defense stat.</p>

Changes in bold and removals in red.

GP Check 1

 

[Delko]

Thanks jc ^^
Updated the OP.

 

[firecape]

I spotted a few errors, mostly just funky wording:

Hide

Name: Heatran (Specially Defensive)
move 1: Lava Plume/ Flamethrower
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Protect
move 4: Roar
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Ability: Flash Fire

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses more on Heatran's decent bulk and unique typing instead of his offensive power. As such this Heatran is best used on teams with a stallish approach. Although Heatran lacks an instant recovery move, which is usually preferred on a special sponge, he is sturdy enough to take a couple of special hits. Besides, Heatran’s base 130 Special Attack stat makes him a very difficult Pokemon to switch into even without investment.</p>

<p>Lava plume is the preferred attack move to use on this set; as it has high PP and a 30% chance to burn, which is always a benefit for a specially defensive Pokemon. Flamethrower is a also an option due to its higher Base Power. Earth Power is a great move to use alongside Heatran’s STAB move as it provides decent coverage, especially against opposing Heatran trying to obtain a Flash Fire boost. Protect has two functions: it allows Heatran to scout Choice users, reducing the need for prediction, and it gives Heatran him an additional turn for Leftovers recovery, whilst while in the meantime letting your opponent take extra residual damage. Roar is another useful move on this set, especially with entry hazard support. Heatran forces a lot of switches so phazing your opponent's team will cause a lot of even more residual damage. Roar also allows you to scout your opponents team which is an advantage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Bellow are some damage calculations to show the amazing special bulk Heatran possesses.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Vs. 252/252 Calm Heatran:</li>
<li>Scarftran Earth Power- 70.5% - 83.9%</li>
<li>Scarf Shaymin Earth Power- 59.1% - 70.5%</li>
<li>LO Shaymin Earth Power- 76.7% - 91.2%</li>
<li>LO Gengar Focus Blast- 61.1% - 72%</li>
<li>LO Jolteon HP Fighting- 31.6% - 37.3%</li>
<li>Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt- 37.3% - 43.8%</li>
</ul>

<p>An alternative EV spread can be used. A spread of 252 / HP / 156 SpD / 100 Spe is useable, and a Calm nature will still give Heatran decent defensive capabilities, while the extra speed allows him to outrun Rotom-A who run no Speed EVs. This way you can take out weakened versions before they can do anything back hit to you.</p>

<p>Heatran has a huge number of support moves he can utilize. Either Toxic or Will-o-wisp can easily go fit (it sounded a little better as fit to me, if you want to keep it that's fine) over Protect or Roar. It should be mentioned Take note that if you decide to use Will-o-wisp, Flamethrower should be your main offensive move. Stealth Rock is an option on Heatran as well if you desperately need someone to lay it down. Taunt is also useful as always, and can find its way into this Heatran's the moveset of this Heatran as well. Taunt shuts down opposing stall teams almost completely and prevents status moves from being used on Heatran and his teammates. Rest provides Heatran with a somewhat reliable recovery move, but two turns of sleep is a letdown and makes Heatran setup fodder for a variety of Pokemon.</p>

edit: Somehow I didn't see this part. (lol)

<p>Offensively, Heatran also has access to a (Space needed) varietyof useful moves. Fire Blast or Overheat can be used if you want a powerful STAB move, but on a defensive Pokemon a reliable move with decent PP is preferred over sheer power. Using Dragon Pulse instead of Earth Power can help against Dragonite and Flygon locked into Outrage. Hidden Power Electric and Hidden Power Grass can also help against Swampert and Gyarados respectively.</p>

<p>Since this Heatran is a defensive version, (Toxic) Spikes are greatly appreciated. A Rapid Spin user is also nice as Heatran needs as much HP as possible to maintain his defensive capabilities. Forretress does both of these things while also luring out Fire-type moves so that Heatran can get a safe switch-in, making Forretress a great teammate. Since Heatran lacks a reliable recovery move, Wish support is a good idea. Vaporeon and Blissey can do this, and so can Blissey, but watch out for the shared weakness to Fighting-type moves in Blissey's case. RestTalk Roar Gyarados also makes a great teammate as he covers Heatran’s weaknesses quite well, while his Intimidate also helps in covering with Heatran's weaker physical defense stat.</p>

 

[Delko]

Thanks Firecape, I edit those changes. ^^

 

[jc104]

Lava plume is the preferred attackmove to use on this set; as it has high PP and a 30% chance to burn, which is always a benefit for a specially defensive Pokemon

I would like to reverse this change because it is wrong. It should either say "set; it ..." or "set, as it...". The clauses most both be able to form complete sentences for a semicolon to be used.

Otherwise those changes look good firecape.

 

[firecape]

Oops sorry, I mean to change it to a comma (I think). Also, somehow I missed the last 2 paragraphs while proofreading, so I made some edits their in my other post.

 

[Delko]

Okay guys thanks ^^
I made the changes.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Hey Delks, make the text normal size lol

pink is grammar edits
blue is prose edits

Name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Lava Plume / Flamethrower
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Protect
move 4: Roar
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Ability: Flash Fire

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses more on Heatran's decent bulk and unique typing instead of his offensive power. As such, this Heatran is best used on teams with a stall-based approach. Although Heatran lacks an instant recovery move, which is usually preferred on a special sponge, he is sturdy enough to take a couple of special hits. Besides, Heatran's base 130 Special Attack stat makes him a very difficult Pokemon to switch into even without EV investment.</p>

<p>Lava plume is the preferred attack move to use on this set as it has high PP and a 30% chance to burn, which is always a benefit for a specially defensive Pokemon. Flamethrower is a also an option due to its higher Base Power. Earth Power is a great move to use alongside Heatran's STAB move as it provides decent coverage, especially against opposing Heatran who are trying to obtain a Flash Fire boost. Protect has two functions: it allows Heatran to scout Choice users, reducing the need for prediction, and it gives him an additional turn for Leftovers recovery, while in the meantime letting your opponent take extra residual damage. Roar is another useful move on this set, especially with entry hazard support. Heatran forces a lot of switches, so phazing your opponent's team will cause even more residual damage. Roar also allows you to scout your opponent's team.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Bellow are some damage calculations of the 252 / 252 Calm Heatran to show the amazing special bulk he possesses.</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Scarftran Earth Power- 70.5% - 83.9%</li>
<li>Scarf Shaymin Earth Power- 59.1% - 70.5%</li>
<li>LO Shaymin Earth Power- 76.7% - 91.2%</li>
<li>LO Gengar Focus Blast- 61.1% - 72%</li>
<li>LO Jolteon HP Fighting- 31.6% - 37.3%</li>
<li>Specs Jolteon Thunderbolt- 37.3% - 43.8%</li>
</ul>

<p>An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 156 SpD / 100 Spe is useable, and a Calm nature will still give Heatran decent defensive capabilities, while the extra Speed allows him to outrun Rotom-A who run no Speed EVs. With this spread, Heatran can take out weakened versions before they can hit him.</p>

<p>Heatran has a huge number of support moves he can utilize. Either Toxic or Will-O-Wisp can easily fit over Protect or Roar. Take note that if you decide to use Will-O-Wisp, Flamethrower should be your main offensive move. Stealth Rock is an option on Heatran as well if you desperately need someone to lay it down. Taunt is also useful, and can find its way into this Heatran's moveset as well. Taunt shuts down opposing stall teams almost completely and prevents status moves from being used on Heatran and his teammates. Rest provides Heatran with a somewhat reliable recovery move, but two turns of sleep is a letdown, and makes Heatran setup fodder for a variety of Pokemon.</p>

<p>Offensively, Heatran also has access to a variety of useful moves. Fire Blast or Overheat can be used if you want a powerful STAB move, but on a defensive Pokemon like this Heatran variant, a reliable move with decent PP is preferred over sheer power. Using Dragon Pulse instead of Earth Power can help against Dragonite and Flygon who are locked into Outrage. Hidden Power Electric and Hidden Power Grass can also help against Gyarados and Swampert, respectively.</p>

<p>Since this Heatran is a defensive version, Toxic Spikes are greatly appreciated. A Rapid Spin user is also nice, as Heatran needs as much HP as possible to maintain his defensive capabilities. Forretress does both of these things while also luring out Fire-type moves so that Heatran can get a safe switch-in, making Forretress a great teammate. Since Heatran lacks a reliable recovery move, Wish support is a good idea. Vaporeon and Blissey can do this, but watch out for the shared weakness to Fighting-type moves in Blissey's case. RestTalk Roar Gyarados also makes a great teammate as he covers Heatran's weaknesses quite well, while his Intimidate also helps in covering Heatran's weaker physical defense stat.</p>

Nice job, and cool set!

 

[Delko]

Thanks Snorlaxe (merci beaucoup ^^)
Edited the OP.