@Wyzra, I play a bit of NU from time to time and I have found that a very effective HO/Semi baton pass combination is Dual Screen Gardevoir, SD/RP Baton Pass Gliscor and bibarel with a moveset of Waterfall/Return/Aqua Jet/Toxic. Although this is not purely HO, it contains many of the aspects of HO and it can be used to sweep the majority of other teams. The reason, IMO that HO is so deadly in NU is that a lot of NU is stall as there are a lot of strong walls there. This makes HO a great strategy as it is almost impossible to wall.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Heavy Offense
- Thread starter The SPrinkLer
- Start date
- Status
This sounds easy on paper, but in the battle is pretty hard to pull off, as many can attest to.
First of all, if someone wants to try out this kind of teams, you have to be very patient. It takes some time to finally get engaged on this kind of teams, since after playing all your "poke-career" with bulky teams that switch a lot, this style becomes basically "new" since you basically dont switch at all (last thing you want to let your opponent get is momentum).
Second, having momentum on your side. By always keeping the pressure on your opponent, forcing switches and playing easily, you get the best results. A nice example could be this:
You got a DD with your Kingdra, your opponent brought in a Salamence. Now, you are at +1 speed and +0 attack. Most players will rely on switching to Scizor or any other shit like that to take the Outrage. Never rush to finish an opponent's poke in this situation. Your best bet here is to just plain Substitute. Dont go in mindgames of "will it stay to hit him with outrage, should i DD, should i waterfall, gaaaah". If your opponent switches, bam you got a sub and more chances to set-up, while SR takes a toll on the opponent, AND will potentially get swept. If the Mence stays oh well now you are sure it will stay in so blegh kill it. Of course someone would say "HEY HE CAN PREDICT IT NOOB", but in a real battle, the pressure can get so high, that the opponent is more prone to either do mistakes or not think correctly.
Third and an important one, this kind of team gets REALLY screwed by luck factors. All the momentum you build in the course of the match can be lost easily by a Stone Edge miss, a crit from a Swampert's EQ, or Flamethrower burning you, etc. So when playing this, you need to always have a plan b, in the event this kind of shit happens.
I wanted to answer some questions so here i come:
A) How do you deal with lead metagross
My Azelf spread beats Metagross always. Here is how it usually goes:
Reflect Turn 1, they MM for 35%~
Taunt Turn 2, they SR or MM, if they SR I got it right, if they MM then im left at 30%~
Stealth Rock Turn 3, as they kill me.
Then the fun starts, Kingdra can set-up on Metagross, and also scout explosions, which is pretty cool, or when im feeling confident I go to Scizor, who is faster than Leadgross and then decimates it.
B) How do you deal with staus (Say wisp rotom)
Thing is most thing usually dont have time to status you, and if they manage to do it, they are rendered pretty much useless. Example +1 Mence vs Rotom. Mence 2HKOs even after a Burn, so Rotom is doomed, weeeee Scizor sweeps.
c) Who do you send on double switches (say Lo kills somebody)
Depends on who I have left, usually the one with lowest HP, OR Metagross. Mainly because Metagross beats so much shit 1 on 1 that its very good. Also, I was forgetting, most people, if their lead is alive, bring it for a Double Switch after dead. So if your opponent's lead is Metagross and has like 50%, bringing Metagross is your best bet. Or if they have Heatran, Salamence can come in. Its just a little tip that usually works.
Also the complicated question, doesn't choice scarf present a serious problem.
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking Scarfs are a total bane. Of course they are annoying, but they are easily played around. Better yet, this is why I have both Lucario and Scizor. Their priority is so strong that they can beat most Scarfers. Scarf Rotom after Overheat ends up being Mence fodder, so yay Mence can sweep after Rotom kills Lucario.
Is heavy offence still viable nowadays with all the rotoms around here?
It is still viable, yes. Harder to pull-off of course, but since a lot of Rotoms are mostly scarfed, its a nice way to get momentum on your side, not even mentioning that Tyranitar in HO totally fucks over Rotom. Defensive ones are always a pain, but by weakening it with lets say Salamence, Scizor can come in, finish that ghost, and then have an easier time, not only for him, but for Gyarados/Lucario/Metagross.
Is there a better solution to rotoms? (I tried heatran to absorb wow)
Rotoms will be a pain, but basically, by using the "concept" of this kind of teams, you can pull off a lot of things. In my specific case, most of my teams have even 3 things that get walled by the same thing. So once I can weaken the Rotom, the opponent can fall pretty easily to the other 2 broskis.
What is the best HO team you used in HO? (is it the one you posted?)
I started using Azelf/Gyara/Mence/Nape/Gross/Kingdra. This was one of Stath's teams when he started explaining HO to me, so I had to use it as a template. Eventually, with patience and a lot of battling, I got the "ability" of making my own team, and in my opinion (not like it matters, I just like to have good self-esteem) is one of the best physical HO teams.
It consists of:
DS Azelf - I have a nice "bond" with this pixie, mainly because I managed to get an Azelf spread that beats every lead (barring aero of course).
DD Kingdra - This is the thing that usually comes after Azelf falls, getting my DS. Kingdra is bulky, and behind screens it becomes a true monster, so its pretty easy to set-up and scout in the meanwhile. Eventually they will bring a Choiced thing to stop it, and thats when my other teammates enter to set-up.
DD Mence - This is the thing that usually dies first in my games, since Kingdra usually gets phazed. Mence is a total beast, pair that with DD and you got a fearsome sweeper. Best thing of Mence is that behind screens it will get always a DD. PS: I use Yache, so have fun trying to revenge me with Mamo, Weavile or Scarfape.
SD Luke - Stall breaker, defeats every single member in stall, barring the always annoying Gyarados, but its cool because most stall teams rely on Gyarados to phaze Mence, so by hurting it, Lucario has a sweep.
SD Scizor - This thing rapes Bulky offensive teams. As said before, Kingdra lures in Scarf Heatran and all those friends, which usually get sacked. Scizor shines in the way that it can KO so many things, it usually destroys stall as well. Scizor + Lucario are walled by basically the same, so they couple excellently.
Agiligross - Try to revenge me with Heatran or Starmie or company, youll get a nasty surprise when this thing gets an Agility and sweeps your ass. Main killer of very offensive teams, or in other cases, opposite HO teams. This also can get some kills in stall, since it puts quite a dent in Rotom. (MM does around 35% or something).
Did you make it to top 50 on shoddy with a HO team? (off topic question but I was just wondering xD)
Yes! It took a while, but after practicing a lot, it managed to get #1 in suspect and top 15 in OU. [/brag]
Just my 2 cents.
First of all, if someone wants to try out this kind of teams, you have to be very patient. It takes some time to finally get engaged on this kind of teams, since after playing all your "poke-career" with bulky teams that switch a lot, this style becomes basically "new" since you basically dont switch at all (last thing you want to let your opponent get is momentum).
Second, having momentum on your side. By always keeping the pressure on your opponent, forcing switches and playing easily, you get the best results. A nice example could be this:
You got a DD with your Kingdra, your opponent brought in a Salamence. Now, you are at +1 speed and +0 attack. Most players will rely on switching to Scizor or any other shit like that to take the Outrage. Never rush to finish an opponent's poke in this situation. Your best bet here is to just plain Substitute. Dont go in mindgames of "will it stay to hit him with outrage, should i DD, should i waterfall, gaaaah". If your opponent switches, bam you got a sub and more chances to set-up, while SR takes a toll on the opponent, AND will potentially get swept. If the Mence stays oh well now you are sure it will stay in so blegh kill it. Of course someone would say "HEY HE CAN PREDICT IT NOOB", but in a real battle, the pressure can get so high, that the opponent is more prone to either do mistakes or not think correctly.
Third and an important one, this kind of team gets REALLY screwed by luck factors. All the momentum you build in the course of the match can be lost easily by a Stone Edge miss, a crit from a Swampert's EQ, or Flamethrower burning you, etc. So when playing this, you need to always have a plan b, in the event this kind of shit happens.
I wanted to answer some questions so here i come:
A) How do you deal with lead metagross
My Azelf spread beats Metagross always. Here is how it usually goes:
Reflect Turn 1, they MM for 35%~
Taunt Turn 2, they SR or MM, if they SR I got it right, if they MM then im left at 30%~
Stealth Rock Turn 3, as they kill me.
Then the fun starts, Kingdra can set-up on Metagross, and also scout explosions, which is pretty cool, or when im feeling confident I go to Scizor, who is faster than Leadgross and then decimates it.
B) How do you deal with staus (Say wisp rotom)
Thing is most thing usually dont have time to status you, and if they manage to do it, they are rendered pretty much useless. Example +1 Mence vs Rotom. Mence 2HKOs even after a Burn, so Rotom is doomed, weeeee Scizor sweeps.
c) Who do you send on double switches (say Lo kills somebody)
Depends on who I have left, usually the one with lowest HP, OR Metagross. Mainly because Metagross beats so much shit 1 on 1 that its very good. Also, I was forgetting, most people, if their lead is alive, bring it for a Double Switch after dead. So if your opponent's lead is Metagross and has like 50%, bringing Metagross is your best bet. Or if they have Heatran, Salamence can come in. Its just a little tip that usually works.
Also the complicated question, doesn't choice scarf present a serious problem.
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking Scarfs are a total bane. Of course they are annoying, but they are easily played around. Better yet, this is why I have both Lucario and Scizor. Their priority is so strong that they can beat most Scarfers. Scarf Rotom after Overheat ends up being Mence fodder, so yay Mence can sweep after Rotom kills Lucario.
Is heavy offence still viable nowadays with all the rotoms around here?
It is still viable, yes. Harder to pull-off of course, but since a lot of Rotoms are mostly scarfed, its a nice way to get momentum on your side, not even mentioning that Tyranitar in HO totally fucks over Rotom. Defensive ones are always a pain, but by weakening it with lets say Salamence, Scizor can come in, finish that ghost, and then have an easier time, not only for him, but for Gyarados/Lucario/Metagross.
Is there a better solution to rotoms? (I tried heatran to absorb wow)
Rotoms will be a pain, but basically, by using the "concept" of this kind of teams, you can pull off a lot of things. In my specific case, most of my teams have even 3 things that get walled by the same thing. So once I can weaken the Rotom, the opponent can fall pretty easily to the other 2 broskis.
What is the best HO team you used in HO? (is it the one you posted?)
I started using Azelf/Gyara/Mence/Nape/Gross/Kingdra. This was one of Stath's teams when he started explaining HO to me, so I had to use it as a template. Eventually, with patience and a lot of battling, I got the "ability" of making my own team, and in my opinion (not like it matters, I just like to have good self-esteem) is one of the best physical HO teams.
It consists of:
DS Azelf - I have a nice "bond" with this pixie, mainly because I managed to get an Azelf spread that beats every lead (barring aero of course).
DD Kingdra - This is the thing that usually comes after Azelf falls, getting my DS. Kingdra is bulky, and behind screens it becomes a true monster, so its pretty easy to set-up and scout in the meanwhile. Eventually they will bring a Choiced thing to stop it, and thats when my other teammates enter to set-up.
DD Mence - This is the thing that usually dies first in my games, since Kingdra usually gets phazed. Mence is a total beast, pair that with DD and you got a fearsome sweeper. Best thing of Mence is that behind screens it will get always a DD. PS: I use Yache, so have fun trying to revenge me with Mamo, Weavile or Scarfape.
SD Luke - Stall breaker, defeats every single member in stall, barring the always annoying Gyarados, but its cool because most stall teams rely on Gyarados to phaze Mence, so by hurting it, Lucario has a sweep.
SD Scizor - This thing rapes Bulky offensive teams. As said before, Kingdra lures in Scarf Heatran and all those friends, which usually get sacked. Scizor shines in the way that it can KO so many things, it usually destroys stall as well. Scizor + Lucario are walled by basically the same, so they couple excellently.
Agiligross - Try to revenge me with Heatran or Starmie or company, youll get a nasty surprise when this thing gets an Agility and sweeps your ass. Main killer of very offensive teams, or in other cases, opposite HO teams. This also can get some kills in stall, since it puts quite a dent in Rotom. (MM does around 35% or something).
Did you make it to top 50 on shoddy with a HO team? (off topic question but I was just wondering xD)
Yes! It took a while, but after practicing a lot, it managed to get #1 in suspect and top 15 in OU. [/brag]
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for posting in this thread Rey! It means a lot coming from such an established HO user. Rey is one of the best around, and has good points in his post.
My concern regarding status has not been addressed, unless you're saying that you should just let your sweeper take the status and keep it in until it dies, which is a pretty dumb idea especially if said status is paralysis - a paralysed pokemon on a hyper offence team is worse than a frozen pokemon on a hyper offence team. The only other way around this is to have all six pokemon on the team be able to outspeed and OHKO every single status inducer in OU without using any stat boosting moves.
As I said, this is why building momentum is so important. The deal here is that they wont have time to paralise you, but anyways if they manage to get a paralisis on you... then what? I still have a +2 Lucario/+2 Scizor/+1 Mence about to sweep you, and they will hurt you as fuck, specially since most of the things that like Paralisis are slow teams or stall. Why would my opponent sacrifice his Blissey just to paralise my +1 Mence? Dont forget that when played correctly, your pokes will be set-up when a status threat appears, so they will be overhauled. Now what else besides gimmick things spread paralysis in OU? Hmmm... Jirachi? Oh have fun trying to Paralise my Mence while I hit you with EQ. Same applies for Metagross, and even for Lucario, since he cant be flinched.
Celebi maybe? Oh ok paralise my Scizor while I OHKO you with X-Scissor. Lucario? Oh man +2 Crunch followed by ES finishes you so now Mence and Metagross have to worry even less.
Again, to answer your question, if you play correctly, they wont be able to hit you with paralisis, and if they do, it wont really affect you, since you will still have other 4 sweepers waiting.
Celebi maybe? Oh ok paralise my Scizor while I OHKO you with X-Scissor. Lucario? Oh man +2 Crunch followed by ES finishes you so now Mence and Metagross have to worry even less.
Again, to answer your question, if you play correctly, they wont be able to hit you with paralisis, and if they do, it wont really affect you, since you will still have other 4 sweepers waiting.
As an example, let's say your opponent sends in his full health Blissey against a Gengar's Shadow Ball. Now Blissey has a free turn to paralyse something, thus rendering one pokemon on the team deadweight.
Note that this is not just a problem with heavy offence teams, it is a problem with all teams that don't run Aromatherapy/Heal Bell on something.
Note that this is not just a problem with heavy offence teams, it is a problem with all teams that don't run Aromatherapy/Heal Bell on something.
Gengar, when used in a Hyper Offense team, usually carries Explosion, well not usually, but always. If I ever considered to use Gengar on a Hyper Offense team, it would have to be LOed and with Explosion, because Special teams really need that Blissey down early game, something Special Exploders can do easily.
So my statement about every pokemon on a heavy offence team outspeeding and OHKOing all the common paralysers without stat boosts was true? And what about the other status effects? Do all the pokemon on a hyper offence team outspeed and OHKO all the common Toxic and Will-o-Wisp users without stat boosts?
Correct.
I've used this quite alot back when I was a wi-fi freak. Tried it out in shoddy, and this kind of team struggles against heavy stall. Its like a match made in heaven for these two, heavy stall will come out on top most of the time. I try to stay away from this style of play in DPP. In DP, this was quite popular and was the most dominant one back when Garchomp was there along with Deoxys-S to set up the quickest SR / dual screens, etc.
Hyper offense is really about long term thinking over anything else. When i start a match I try to form plans to win as soon as possible, begining with how to keep SR from going up.
But I think a lot of people really miss the bauty of long term thinking. If im in an agiligross sweep and rotom comes in, I stay in to hit it so that later my LO gyara sweeps. If my gyara is in a sweep and rotom comes in, I stay in to make sure later metagross busts thruogh it. The combination of metagross and LO gyarados is the fundamental core of my best hyper offense teams and it is one of th best combination of sweepers in general.
These combinations of sweepers is what hyper offense is all about. You need to have pokemon that are walled by the same shit. If DDgyara dies to porygon, later mence may get through.
I also think the early game of Hyper offense is the hardest part to learn. The whole hyper offense game is about setting up the right guys at the right time, which means you cant just send in lucario early to set up on blissey, because lucario may be the key to winning the end game.. Even if your team matchup is terrible, if you play correctly(perfectly) you can win almost 100% of your matches. There is no team (well maybe if you ran a ton of walls with scarf jolteon and scarf weavile) that HO doesnt have the potential to beat, it is always a matter of planning and correct play.
But I think a lot of people really miss the bauty of long term thinking. If im in an agiligross sweep and rotom comes in, I stay in to hit it so that later my LO gyara sweeps. If my gyara is in a sweep and rotom comes in, I stay in to make sure later metagross busts thruogh it. The combination of metagross and LO gyarados is the fundamental core of my best hyper offense teams and it is one of th best combination of sweepers in general.
These combinations of sweepers is what hyper offense is all about. You need to have pokemon that are walled by the same shit. If DDgyara dies to porygon, later mence may get through.
I also think the early game of Hyper offense is the hardest part to learn. The whole hyper offense game is about setting up the right guys at the right time, which means you cant just send in lucario early to set up on blissey, because lucario may be the key to winning the end game.. Even if your team matchup is terrible, if you play correctly(perfectly) you can win almost 100% of your matches. There is no team (well maybe if you ran a ton of walls with scarf jolteon and scarf weavile) that HO doesnt have the potential to beat, it is always a matter of planning and correct play.
yeah getting to top 50 with a heavy offence team is amazing dude, congrats on that!
regarding that team you posted, without t-tar how is rotom handled? cause scizor/metagross and even kingdra at times are really hindered by it :/ also, what does one switch into after scizor is killed by magnezone? (if screens aren't up) I used to use tyranitar + scizor so I could go to t-tar, dance and kill the next thing when the opponent is locked into magnezone, so yeah I would like to know how to handle such a situation :) also, without t-tar to change the weather, how are rain dance teams handled?
regarding tyranitar, what moveset should it run? and for salamence should dragon claw be used or outrage? (naive or jolly? xD) I'm assuming lucario runs adamant for more power, just as lucario and kingdra...
one more thing, how does this thing get rid of the pesky skarm/hippo and crocune ? phazing and healing off their damage while your LO wears you out is really annoying :/ especially where 2 pokes are weak to hippowdon's EQ... I'm not questioning you or anything, just that these are issues I've faced and I would really like to know how to work them out :) thanks again rey! :D
yeah getting to top 50 with a heavy offence team is amazing dude, congrats on that!
regarding that team you posted, without t-tar how is rotom handled? cause scizor/metagross and even kingdra at times are really hindered by it :/ also, what does one switch into after scizor is killed by magnezone? (if screens aren't up) I used to use tyranitar + scizor so I could go to t-tar, dance and kill the next thing when the opponent is locked into magnezone, so yeah I would like to know how to handle such a situation :)
regarding tyranitar, what moveset should it run? and for salamence should dragon claw be used or outrage? (naive or jolly? xD) I'm assuming lucario runs adamant for more power, just as lucario and kingdra...
one more thing, how does this thing get rid of the pesky skarm/hippo and crocune ? phazing and healing off their damage while your LO wears you out is really annoying :/ I'm not questioning you or anything, just that these are issues I've faced and I would really like to know how to work them out :) thanks again rey! :D
tyranitar should be jolly to outrun as much as possible.
rotom can be handled a variety of ways, the best is probably kingdra. See, most HO teams run a special kingdra set that is kind of hard to pick out of the analysis:
Kingdra@ lumberry
adamant
252 attack/252 speed
outrage
waterfall
DD
Sub
This kingdra set is really amazing and pretty much walks on paralysis pokemon. you take the status move while you dragon dance, then you sub while they repeat the status move. you then net one more dragon dance then you would normally have gotten of youd subbed the first turn. Outrage is absolutely neccessary on mence, it 2hkos many things that resist it as it is.
You're thinking of a different type of HO, and imo a less well rounded version. A good HO team completely shits on stall. you can't just throw in a lot of set up sweepers and a lead and call it a good HO team, even if it has decent type synergy. A good HO team should always have what I call a 'soften and sweep' strategy. You overload on pokes that are stopped by the same pokes, sac one of your pokes to weaken the counter and the rest of your team can sweep. This point was made famous by stath's greek RMT in the archives.
This is also the answer to the question regarding status. You'll get hit by status but as long as you can weaken a core member of the opponent's defesive core, it doesn't matter in the long run.
A) If you are using DS Azelf, the best course of action is to reflect then taunt, as they will generally try the mm + bp combo, and then once they see you set up screens they will try and get rocks up. After that you should be able to use all of your moves on them. Oh, and dont' use the explosion ds azelf. The taunt one is better. Explosions have 2 outcomes: either you kill something, causing a nasty double-switch, or you don't, meaning you basically did nothing because your sweepers should be able to ko anyway. worst case, you might be allowing it to set up (since you have no taunt)!
B)When I see w-o-w rotom, I just immediately bring in mence or something and outrage it. Even better, if I am using a team with sub lum berry kingdra it is extremely easy to beat. W-o-w (and status in general) often simply causes the opponent to sac important walls. I can't tell you how many wins I have gotten because people simply had to use gliscor's toxic on gyara, rotom's w-o-w on mence, or any status on sub lum kingdra.
C)I usually send in an intimidator if I haven't seen their team. This allows me to at least get an intimidate off if I make a poor switchin. If I have seen their team and know that they are likely to send in something that threatens both intimidators (ie scarf latias) I send in something to set up on that (in your case, ttar).
Scarves themselves aren't a problem. They tend to just allow free setup. The problem is when they have a scarfer that usually isn't scarved (think scarf mence). They will often net free kills from the surprise value alone. Also, I think that people tend to stay to rigidly with the no switching mentality and end up giving away free kills. If you have put your opponent in a situation where they cannot predict, then you may do so freely. For example, the opponent will use eq every time they bring in gliscor on lucario, or flygon on gross. They simply can't afford to u-turn or whatever. Use this to your advantage.
@ Sparko: Rotom (scarf especially) is really annoying for my teams. He can beat everything on the team barring ttar and mence (and sort of kingdra). The good news is that the w-o-w version is complete setup bait for sub lum kingdra and often ends up saccing itself because it has to try and w-o-w everything in sight instead of switching out to bring in the appropriate counter.
Finally, regarding water HO, I am not going to say anything regarding water HO. Stathakis is still working on it. All I am going to tell you is that the team is not all water types, but pretty much everything has a water move. Also, it does not use a standard lead (at least the incarnation I looked at didn't). If Stathakis decides to post here about it possibly trying to do a sort of group collaboration on a new HO, that would be awesome, but it is his team and therefore his call.
Doing a 4 water team has brought me from struggling at 1280 rating to 1350 so far. The one scarfer that really hurts me is latias. I think I need to switch my kingra to a sub version though, and use empoleon more vs latias. It's tough because most latias carry thunderbolt if they are not scarfed.
Latias is a bitch. Yea, try the sub version of Kingdra and see how that works out.
I like using HO tbh WoW rest talk rotom really fucks it over especially if you use agilitygross to early.
Most of them are close calls because it involves sacing Pokemon. You'll very rarely, if ever get a 5-0 or 6-0.
You misunderstand me. HO gets a better matchup against stall than with bulky offence. It can win against both as all good teams, but there is a difference.
I never really tried heavy offense but when I have I got out predicted.
Heavy offense doesn't require prediction so you can't really get "outpredicted".
I forgot to mention in my previous post that water HO wasn't that good the last time I saw stath use it. I don't know why, but everyone would beat it. i think it has to do with the fact that it was physical and special. The team would just be walled by stuff other than bulky waters and then lose. Since I doubt he is still using this version, I will go ahead and post it.
He was using lead venomoth (he liked that it could beat jirachi more easily than roserade), Rain Dance bronzong, Sub + Charge Beam Rotom-W, MixDra (I think Waterfall, Dragon Pulse, Hydro Pump, + something that was not draco or outrage), Sub Petaya Empoleon, and DD Gyara. I think one of the problems is that the team in no way sets up empoleon. Nothing encourages stuff that empoleon resists. There isn't much on this team that I would bullet punch, for example.
One of HO's biggest problems is if the opponent has a lot of answers for each thing that aren't the normal counters you want. I didn't like DD tyranitar much because it allowed stuff like machamp to be useful against the team, and the sandstorm nullified leftovers and increased the amount of recoil LOrbers took each turn. I would recommend that people who aren't using sub lum DD kingdra should try it out over ttar. Kingdra is walled by sort of the same stuff as gyara and mence, and is a great status absorber (often gets +2 +2 from status spammers like celebi, jirachi, and rotom). Also, use sniper, not swift swim. Sniper isn't that aewsome of an ability, but when you get a crit, it will often kill something it wouldn't have otherwise. I have killed a heatran with outrage at +1 because I got a Sniper crit. I would rather have a chance of activating an ability every game rather than only against rain teams. Also, I would highly recommend Jolly. It allows you to outspeed trans and lucarios and still get some HP out of it. If you don't care about HP much you can invest to beat Jolly Gyara too, but meh.
He was using lead venomoth (he liked that it could beat jirachi more easily than roserade), Rain Dance bronzong, Sub + Charge Beam Rotom-W, MixDra (I think Waterfall, Dragon Pulse, Hydro Pump, + something that was not draco or outrage), Sub Petaya Empoleon, and DD Gyara. I think one of the problems is that the team in no way sets up empoleon. Nothing encourages stuff that empoleon resists. There isn't much on this team that I would bullet punch, for example.
One of HO's biggest problems is if the opponent has a lot of answers for each thing that aren't the normal counters you want. I didn't like DD tyranitar much because it allowed stuff like machamp to be useful against the team, and the sandstorm nullified leftovers and increased the amount of recoil LOrbers took each turn. I would recommend that people who aren't using sub lum DD kingdra should try it out over ttar. Kingdra is walled by sort of the same stuff as gyara and mence, and is a great status absorber (often gets +2 +2 from status spammers like celebi, jirachi, and rotom). Also, use sniper, not swift swim. Sniper isn't that aewsome of an ability, but when you get a crit, it will often kill something it wouldn't have otherwise. I have killed a heatran with outrage at +1 because I got a Sniper crit. I would rather have a chance of activating an ability every game rather than only against rain teams. Also, I would highly recommend Jolly. It allows you to outspeed trans and lucarios and still get some HP out of it. If you don't care about HP much you can invest to beat Jolly Gyara too, but meh.
- Status
