That would be neat, but I can't seem to think of any way to actually pull it off.
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Hemiswap! ~ The Trading Metagame [Play on Pandora!]
- Thread starter Jajoken
- Start date
This is a really cool concept, i especially like the cover art too :3 good job on coming up with dis!
I'm seeing a lot of debate on how to handle these "trash teams", some say to ban weak Pokemon, weak moves, or a combination of the two. But really, these are unnecessary measures - especially for a meta that hasn't even been coded yet (i think)! Like other people have stated, 50% win rate is pretty terrible. It might be used a lot at the start, but eventually most people will lean to proper Hemiswap teams. I predict that past 1100 ELO trash teams will be non-existant. And besides, you shouldn't ban these NFEs because someone may find some amazingly convoluted strategy to take advantage of using weakmons, why would you restrict this theoretical creativity!?!?!?
However, I do agree some rule should made so that you must have 6 Pokemon on any Hemiswap team. Since not only would figuring out what would happen if you only brought 3 Pokemon be confusing, but also a waste of time.
I'm seeing a lot of debate on how to handle these "trash teams", some say to ban weak Pokemon, weak moves, or a combination of the two. But really, these are unnecessary measures - especially for a meta that hasn't even been coded yet (i think)! Like other people have stated, 50% win rate is pretty terrible. It might be used a lot at the start, but eventually most people will lean to proper Hemiswap teams. I predict that past 1100 ELO trash teams will be non-existant. And besides, you shouldn't ban these NFEs because someone may find some amazingly convoluted strategy to take advantage of using weakmons, why would you restrict this theoretical creativity!?!?!?
However, I do agree some rule should made so that you must have 6 Pokemon on any Hemiswap team. Since not only would figuring out what would happen if you only brought 3 Pokemon be confusing, but also a waste of time.
I more or less agree. Just nice to have some potential precautions that I can put into effect if it ever becomes an issue. Although, loopholes like AV no attacks sets make me think any safeguards I can put in place will be inadequate.
I will add the 6 Pokemon requirement to the OP, however. There is literally no valid argument for having less than a full team (unless you don't want to get phased...I guess?)
I'm about to head out on vacation, so before I go I thought I'd make a post on how to play this OM manually with minimal trouble on normal servers. Still would be nice to get coded, but this is a fairly low effort method that should take no longer than a few minutes to set up.
1) Create two separate teams in Teambuilder, each with only three Pokemon. These would normally represent the first half and second half of a single team. Designate one half-team as "hit" and one half-team as "miss." Maybe name them something like "Hemiswap 1 HIT" or "Hemiswap Trick Room HIT"
2) Click Export for each half-team and copy/paste the data on Pastebin as separate files. Post them and hold onto the links.
3) Challenge someone to an Ubers/custom battle using the following "team." Primal Groudon was chosen so you can't cheat the system by holding Bright Powder or Wide Lens. No weighted dice around here.
Coin Flip (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
- Dynamic Punch
If the first Dynamic Punch lands, you trade the half-team designated "hit." If it misses, you trade the one designated "miss." (NOTE: If you trust this person, you can save some time by flipping a real coin, and subbing in heads for hit and tails for miss. But isn't this way more fun?)
4) Send the person you challenged the Pastebin for the half-team that the "coin flip" chose.
5) Open the Import/Export menu in Teambuilder for the remaining half-team you didn't trade. Copy and paste the team data that was traded to you immediately under your current three Pokemon, with one line of space between Pokemon.
6) Highlight the entire team's data and copy it, but don't save. Instead, navigate out of that team and create a new one. Import the data you just copied, and save this as a team of six, naming it something like "Hemiswap TRADE A". This way, you can keep the half-teams for future trades without having to delete part of them.
7) Now, challenge the person to an OU or custom game using your completed team. If you ended up with a repeat Pokemon, then a custom game will be necessary to evade species clause. If you can, try not to pay too close attention to the Teambuilder data before battling. You normally wouldn't have the privledge of looking at the exact EV spreads. You can still see the stats by hovering over a Pokemon in battle, though!
8) Enjoy your battle! If you wouldn't mind posting a replay, it would be great if you shared them in the thread. I'll add them to the OP.
1) Create two separate teams in Teambuilder, each with only three Pokemon. These would normally represent the first half and second half of a single team. Designate one half-team as "hit" and one half-team as "miss." Maybe name them something like "Hemiswap 1 HIT" or "Hemiswap Trick Room HIT"
2) Click Export for each half-team and copy/paste the data on Pastebin as separate files. Post them and hold onto the links.
3) Challenge someone to an Ubers/custom battle using the following "team." Primal Groudon was chosen so you can't cheat the system by holding Bright Powder or Wide Lens. No weighted dice around here.
Coin Flip (Groudon) @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
- Dynamic Punch
If the first Dynamic Punch lands, you trade the half-team designated "hit." If it misses, you trade the one designated "miss." (NOTE: If you trust this person, you can save some time by flipping a real coin, and subbing in heads for hit and tails for miss. But isn't this way more fun?)
4) Send the person you challenged the Pastebin for the half-team that the "coin flip" chose.
5) Open the Import/Export menu in Teambuilder for the remaining half-team you didn't trade. Copy and paste the team data that was traded to you immediately under your current three Pokemon, with one line of space between Pokemon.
6) Highlight the entire team's data and copy it, but don't save. Instead, navigate out of that team and create a new one. Import the data you just copied, and save this as a team of six, naming it something like "Hemiswap TRADE A". This way, you can keep the half-teams for future trades without having to delete part of them.
7) Now, challenge the person to an OU or custom game using your completed team. If you ended up with a repeat Pokemon, then a custom game will be necessary to evade species clause. If you can, try not to pay too close attention to the Teambuilder data before battling. You normally wouldn't have the privledge of looking at the exact EV spreads. You can still see the stats by hovering over a Pokemon in battle, though!
8) Enjoy your battle! If you wouldn't mind posting a replay, it would be great if you shared them in the thread. I'll add them to the OP.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
The only issue with this is you see the exact EVS like you said. Honestly, if non-noobs play this it should be a lot of fun but I don't think a ladder is viable because of reasons like half trash teams. I look forward to trying this out!
If it's a match between friends, hopefully neither of you will tryhard enough to run calcs with exact EVs lol.
As a side-note, I've seen posts that seem to indicate that a PS! command that randomly picks one of a few defined options exists. Or in fewer words: a coin flip. Is this a real thing? Probably easier than running a 1v1 match with weird sets.
Aye, it is real, it's /pick [something], [something]
Easy way out though. Man up and punch stuff with groudon.
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
In the past TI has coded OMs that have won OMotM if they weren't already coded, so this shouldn't be a concern. I would vote for this because it's such a good idea, but it's so hard to decide because there's so many good choices ;-;
Oh, cool. I guess that works then.
Someone was saying that "all pokemon should have 4 moves" should be a rule to prevent trash teams but what about Ditto? It only learns one move. Unown too but that's less competitively relevant.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
I still think the best fix is keep 4 trade 2. You can still have cores like FerroCent (although Jellicent sucks now you get the point) or Talon + spinner, but it makes trash teams unusable since the winrate dops to 33%. A meta where you can guarantee a coin flip sounds terrible and I would not play it, as on lower ladder you will get someone using that crap. But otherwise it would be pretty interesting to try and counterteam yourself.
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
Yeah, its a team builder ban. Those can be bypassed. Just be wary of trash strats.
Having less than 4 moves is actually viable in some cases, for example I often run banded crobat in UU with brave bird / u-turn / sleep talk since I don't want sleep talk calling anything else.
Also I kinda want to see at least once two players both using half trash team battle and one of the two ending up with 6 trash mons.
Other than that, really cool idea.
Also I kinda want to see at least once two players both using half trash team battle and one of the two ending up with 6 trash mons.
Other than that, really cool idea.
Rejoice! Got some code for you :)
PS. You need the very latest version of PS to run it.
Code:
{
name: "Hemi Swap",
desc: [
"Each player's team will be split and shared with their opponent.",
"• <a href=\"https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/3544210/\">Hemiswap</a>"
],
section: "Other Metagames",
ruleset: ['OU'],
teamLength: {
validate: [6, 6]
},
onBegin: function () {
let p1gives = this.p1.pokemon.splice(this.random(2) * 3, 3);
let p2gives = this.p2.pokemon.splice(this.random(2) * 3, 3);
Array.prototype.push.apply(this.p1.pokemon, p2gives);
Array.prototype.push.apply(this.p2.pokemon, p1gives);
for (let i = 0; i < this.sides.length; i++) {
let side = this.sides[i];
side.pokemonLeft = side.pokemon.length;
for (let j = 0; j < side.pokemon.length; j++) {
let pokemon = side.pokemon[j];
let oldPos = pokemon.position;
pokemon.position = j;
if (side !== pokemon.side) {
pokemon.side.team[oldPos] = null;
pokemon.side = side;
pokemon.side.team.push(pokemon.set);
pokemon.fullname = pokemon.side.id + ': ' + pokemon.name;
pokemon.id = pokemon.fullname;
}
}
}
this.p1.team = this.p1.team.compact();
this.p2.team = this.p2.team.compact();
}
}PS. You need the very latest version of PS to run it.
No, that's only for the host server.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-hemiswap-2939866
We have a replay!
Also showing why full trash teams suck. (All of the Eon's were lvl 5)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-hemiswap-2939988
And another, this time with real teams!
We have a replay!
Also showing why full trash teams suck. (All of the Eon's were lvl 5)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pandora-hemiswap-2939988
And another, this time with real teams!
Last edited:
thesecondbest
Just Kidding I'm First
We all know full trash sucks, half trash is the real problem. There is literally no way to guarantee above a 50% winrate vs half trash. This will make the meta stale.
Game Theory, my friend :)