Yeah I don't see you staying in many turns, toxic orb is much better here. I think it still has good use too, as a good status wall, and a total counter for Chansey then.
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Heracross Discussion
- Thread starter smashlloyd20
- Start date
Probably not unless it was CBed, but if Emboar was coming in the switch I don't think it would matter as you'd get 2HKOed by Close Combat (unless Hera uses Megahorn or Emboar has a scarf). But really you wouldn't switch either Hera or Emboar into the other unless you were desperate; it's just far too risky.
Oh and I reckon CB is still quite viable. If you do a little bit of good predicting the combination of Guts and CB is enough to wreck anything apart.
Oh and I reckon CB is still quite viable. If you do a little bit of good predicting the combination of Guts and CB is enough to wreck anything apart.
Flare Blitz from a Blaze Emboar 252 Hp/252 Atk LO does 226.5%-266.9% to a standard Heracross.
Close Combat from a Guts Heracross (with no boosts) 252 atk/252 spe LO does 90.6%-106.8% to the aforementioned Emboar.
Close Combat from a Guts Heracross (with no boosts) 252 atk/252 spe CB does 104.2%-123.1% to the aforementioned Emboar.
So without choice band, guts boost or a swords dance boost Heracross cannot defeat Emboar in one hit every time, but as you said, its too risky to have either face eachother unless either has boosts. If Emboar had a Flame Charge speed boost up, then he would no doubt crush Heracross.
The only merit of using CB over Toxic orb is if you plan on switching him in on a status move. Which isn't really a good plan to build a set around.
i dont see why they wouldnt use CS. Sure CB and LO give him more power, but in UU the common speed range is 95-110. Heck almost all of the fire types are over 95, almost all of the flyings are over 95, and a few psychics are as well. Heracross really needs that speed with him.
This is not the place to discuss why Emboar is better than Arcanine in some ways.
I have used a Flame Charge Emboar to defeat a Heracross before. It was amazingly fun. The person ragequit.
I have been having some sucess with a kinda gimmick set.
Heracross@Salac bery Moxie
252 attack 252 speed 4 hp
Jolly
-Endure
-Close Combat
-Megahorn
-Earthquake/Aerial ace
After you kill something with Close combat people will be just tempted to try to revenge it with -1/-1 defense, thats when you endure and get a pretty amazing speed with salac berry. And after a +1/+1 hera, you will only be killed by pretty most prioty or something scarfed. It has great coverage on its stabs, and aerial ace can be used if you run in likes of hitmontop(but they have priority so you prolly dont want to stay in after endure).
Heracross@Salac bery Moxie
252 attack 252 speed 4 hp
Jolly
-Endure
-Close Combat
-Megahorn
-Earthquake/Aerial ace
After you kill something with Close combat people will be just tempted to try to revenge it with -1/-1 defense, thats when you endure and get a pretty amazing speed with salac berry. And after a +1/+1 hera, you will only be killed by pretty most prioty or something scarfed. It has great coverage on its stabs, and aerial ace can be used if you run in likes of hitmontop(but they have priority so you prolly dont want to stay in after endure).
Priority is far too common in this metagame as its a necessity on most teams to deal with the top UU threats, so I just don't see this set working.
First off we don't have a UU DW. Secondly if we did the amount of priorety would put quite the damper on this. Even if the first two points were somehow invalid, why the hell would you run earthquake over reversal? The only type it beats is poision, and the only two common posions in UU are Crobat, and Drapion. If anything you may want stone edge.
All this aside, really looking to see how hera plays out in uu, handling psychics and the ability to check loads of top threats with a scarf really makes for an excellent poke.
^You haven't played UU much, have you?
What priority? This is BW UU. Hitmontop is the only common priority user in the tier. Occasionally you'll see Aqua Jet Azumarill or a Sucker Punch Bisharp. Priority moves aren't popular in UU and the pokemon that use them are easy to counter.
In OU, you have 3 of the top 14 pokemon commonly using priority moves. Not to mention Tyranitar causing perma-Sand, Gliscor not caring about non-SD Heracross, and Excadrill who will always outspeed you in Sand (all 3 of which are also in the top 14). In UU, none of that exists and the only priority user that has a chance of breaking the top 10 is lol Hitmontop.
Nidoqueen/king, as well as doing more damage to Victini without the miss chance. It can also finish off a lot of pokemon, gaining Moxie boosts without resorting to miss chances or Def drops.
If you think Crobat and Drapion are common in BW UU, I suggest you check which tier your team is set for on PO (assuming you've even played a UU match in the last month). Your post basically tells me that you're still playing DP UU and using it to theorymon about sets for BW UU.
The only problem with his set is the unreleased Moxie. He'll have to resort to Swarm for now. And I'd personally use Substitute over Endure because it's way easier to set up and it prevents random statuses.
Heracross is slower than the most common Psychics, Victini and Celebi, so that kinda sucks for it. It's also slower than Kyurem, the most popular scarfer...and it's also slower than most things on a Drought team. It has its uses, but Heracross is far from "excellent" in the tier.
What priority? This is BW UU. Hitmontop is the only common priority user in the tier. Occasionally you'll see Aqua Jet Azumarill or a Sucker Punch Bisharp. Priority moves aren't popular in UU and the pokemon that use them are easy to counter.
In OU, you have 3 of the top 14 pokemon commonly using priority moves. Not to mention Tyranitar causing perma-Sand, Gliscor not caring about non-SD Heracross, and Excadrill who will always outspeed you in Sand (all 3 of which are also in the top 14). In UU, none of that exists and the only priority user that has a chance of breaking the top 10 is lol Hitmontop.
Nidoqueen/king, as well as doing more damage to Victini without the miss chance. It can also finish off a lot of pokemon, gaining Moxie boosts without resorting to miss chances or Def drops.
If you think Crobat and Drapion are common in BW UU, I suggest you check which tier your team is set for on PO (assuming you've even played a UU match in the last month). Your post basically tells me that you're still playing DP UU and using it to theorymon about sets for BW UU.
The only problem with his set is the unreleased Moxie. He'll have to resort to Swarm for now. And I'd personally use Substitute over Endure because it's way easier to set up and it prevents random statuses.
Heracross is slower than the most common Psychics, Victini and Celebi, so that kinda sucks for it. It's also slower than Kyurem, the most popular scarfer...and it's also slower than most things on a Drought team. It has its uses, but Heracross is far from "excellent" in the tier.
I said with a scarf when talking about psychics. True I did forget the Nidos, and hitting Victini with more accuracy is a plus. You are right about the priorety, I haven't played any UU since the first week of it's release (damn it school), I just remember running in to lots of Hitmontop.
I use a sub+3, much more versatile and allow better recovery when Outpredicted/ Outpredicting. Switching on a wall is almost a free sub, then you can easily kill anything they throw at you, or severely damage it. Here's my set:
Heracross @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Mega Horn
-Stone Edge
-Substitute
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Since I aim to switch on walls, I use the Adamant nature (He's too slow for me to use Jolly anyway). I will mostly always outspeed any walls (and most of them will switch out anyway) and then proceed with w/e is necessary. Lefties helps recover sub dmg and stuff.
I used to have a choicebanded Hera, but getting outpredicted or outpredicting hurts him too much.
Dusclops and Gligar are a problem though.
Heracross @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
-Close Combat
-Mega Horn
-Stone Edge
-Substitute
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
Since I aim to switch on walls, I use the Adamant nature (He's too slow for me to use Jolly anyway). I will mostly always outspeed any walls (and most of them will switch out anyway) and then proceed with w/e is necessary. Lefties helps recover sub dmg and stuff.
I used to have a choicebanded Hera, but getting outpredicted or outpredicting hurts him too much.
Dusclops and Gligar are a problem though.
ES Arcanine would like a word with you :P
Gonna give a shout out to Subcross, it actually works fantastic in this metagame. Given sun sweepers are outspeeding Scarfcross anyday of the week and CBcross is too easy to predict and outspeed. Subcross works great actually being able to scare off things which can't handle it and getting a Sub up.
Hitmontop is on a shitload of teams. Yeah, only about 5 or so Pokemon in the tier are using strong priority, but damn, those mons can be common.
Last Gen the following wasn't very well known, but it was extremely efficient. Now, as of yet I've not tested in in BW UU, since I rarely get the chance to go on PO
Heracross @ Life Orb
Jolly / Guts
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
Contrary to what many people believed, this is NOT a defensive set. It's designed so that Heracross can stick around a lot longer, and to have the MASSIVE damage output of LO + an activated Guts while asleep. His STABs hit hard enough that other coverage moves are barely even needed.
Heracross @ Life Orb
Jolly / Guts
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 252 Spe
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
Contrary to what many people believed, this is NOT a defensive set. It's designed so that Heracross can stick around a lot longer, and to have the MASSIVE damage output of LO + an activated Guts while asleep. His STABs hit hard enough that other coverage moves are barely even needed.
Sub+3 Moves
Use Moxie instead of guts for the sub set. I have been using it for a while in OU and it works great. If you get a free sub you can sweep hard. This thing is OU material not UU.
Use Moxie instead of guts for the sub set. I have been using it for a while in OU and it works great. If you get a free sub you can sweep hard. This thing is OU material not UU.
I haven't seen Hitmontop much during laddering.
How does evolite gligar do against herracross? With taut, I'd think gligar would wall it, but not sure
If anything Moxie should go with Choice Scarf. Revenge something, and BAM! You have a pseudo-DD going along.
I could've sworn Eviolite Gligar was a hard counter to Hera. I'd prefer Eviolite Scyther myself, but Stealth Rock >_>
@Cherub Agent: That was the exact same Heracross set I use in Ubers to counter Darkrai. LOL. With stuff like Arcanine and Victini around though, I don't think Heracross is really gonna do much, and Sleep Talk does have a 1/3 chance of failing.