Heracross (OU Revamp) [Done!]

[Excal]

[OVERVIEW]

Heracross's decent Special Defense and high Attack let it take quite a few special hits and fire back hard physically. Furthermore, its key resistances to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks allow it to check Pokemon like Nidoking, Golem, Steelix, and Machamp; when it's healthy, it can safely switch in and check an unboosted Marowak that lacks the uncommon Hidden Power Flying. On top of its high Attack and Special Defense, its Speed is quite good. This allows Heracross to outspeed Exeggutor, Tyranitar, and Umbreon, which all get maimed by Megahorn.

However, Heracross's only prominent STAB move, Megahorn, is resisted by very common types like Flying and Steel. This means that Pokemon like a healthy Zapdos, Skarmory, and Steelix can reliably pivot in and cause trouble for the Hercules beetle, with the threats of Thunder from Zapdos, Drill Peck or Whirlwind from Skarmory, and Roar or Explosion from Steelix, among some more niche moves from these Pokemon. Overall, Heracross can be very effective at shutting down difficult threats throughout the game, but patience must be exhibited when using it, as it needs to wait for some Pokemon that may very well be long-lasting to get KOed or weakened before it can try to clean.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Curse / Seismic Toss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Heracross has quite the shallow movepool but a decent combination of bulk and typing, which makes RestTalk the perfect strategy for it. Megahorn will heavily dent anything that doesn't resist it. Combining these attributes, Heracross can have decent matchups against Pokemon like Raikou and Suicune. Raikou sustains massive damage from Megahorn, and Heracross also outdamages Suicune while not minding Toxic too much thanks to Rest, making it a very reliable Suicune pivot and enabling it to force Suicune out often.

For the last moveslot, Curse and Seismic Toss are the two best choices. Curse can make Heracross an extremely effective late-game sweeper after checks like Skarmory, Steelix, and Zapdos have been removed from the battle. In more desperate situations, with timely Thunder misses from Zapdos, Heracross may actually be able to edge it out in the one-on-one scenario, but this is unlikely and extremely risky. Curse can also allow Heracross to match up decently versus Snorlax sometimes, as Megahorn does quite a lot of damage, and even after a Curse, Heracross still outspeeds Snorlax.

Seismic Toss is more of a conservative and defensive choice, which gives Heracross more consistent damage output against Pokemon like Machamp, Steelix, and even Nidoking, which all resist Megahorn. Seismic Toss does a great job at chipping Skarmory when it enters into Heracross, and if Skarmory uses Rest and is forced out without burning any sleep turns, it can no longer safely switch into Heracross because it gets outsped and 4HKOed by Seismic Toss. Otherwise, Heracross will most likely have to switch out after hitting a healthy Skarmory with a Seismic Toss. Also, Seismic Toss gives Forretress more trouble, especially since it's a Pokemon that usually has no recovery other than Leftovers. However, without Curse, Heracross will not be as potent of an end-game cleaner.

Team Options
========

Unfortunately, most Pokemon that resist Megahorn like Zapdos and Skarmory are quite common and shut Heracross down quite easily, so getting rid of its common checks is crucial for it to shine. This means that Heracross really appreciates lures for these Pokemon. Using a Self-Destruct CurseLax with Heracross is a great way to lure in and KO opposing Skarmory. Exeggutor can often cripple and even remove Zapdos with Explosion; it can also use Hidden Power Fire to pressure Skarmory and cripple it with a status move. Tyranitar is a great teammate for being an essential Normal-type switch-in and a Pursuit trapper that can assist in taking down meddling Ghost-types like Gengar; it can even take advantage of Skarmory's fear of Fire Blast to chip it with Pursuit, bringing it closer to the range Seismic Toss Heracross can KO it from. An additional sleep absorber like Sleep Talk Raikou or Sleep Talk Snorlax can pair decently well with Heracross for its matchup versus both Zapdos and Jynx. In Raikou's case, Heracross can absorb sleep from Nidoking and Snorlax, while Raikou covers Jynx and Exeggutor. Golem provides Rapid Spin, a Normal resistance, and more offensive presence as a spinner, which pairs nicely with Heracross both offensively and defensively. Raikou will check both Zapdos and Skarmory defensively, two of Heracross's worst nemeses, while Heracross checks Nidoking and Machamp, giving the two Pokemon great defensive synergy as well.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Earthquake provides really good coverage for Pokemon like Gengar, Nidoking, and Raikou, which otherwise might stay in to deal chip damage, but since it does nothing to combat Zapdos and Skarmory, moves like Curse and Seismic Toss are usually better.

Heracross can opt for a set utilizing Curse, Megahorn, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Rock if you want to exchange staying power for offensive pressure. This set works like Curse Machamp but with better special bulk and key resistances; however, compared to Machamp, it has a worse STAB move, and it's still walled by Skarmory.

An Endure + Reversal set is marginally viable, as Reversal can 2HKO Skarmory, but it is difficult to pull off, as its biggest issue is simply that it's difficult to get the opponent to attack and lower Heracross's HP down to 1%. One of Heracross's selling points is its ability to shrug off status via its longevity and Rest, but this variant of Heracross will despise status. Also, if Spikes are in play, it’s only a one-time use, so Rapid Spin support is mandatory with this set. Starmie fits the role well here, as it can potentially remove Gengar with Psychic or slow down faster Pokemon with Thunder Wave.

Counter can be used to bait and take out Snorlax and Machamp, and with Curse it can remove Skarmory, but the Curse set is more consistent against Snorlax, and it's probably more effective for other teammates to remove Skarmory to support Heracross's potential end-game sweep; Counter can also potentially be used against Marowak, but this is far less realistic.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Flying-types**: Skarmory and Zapdos are the most reliable Heracross checks. Skarmory is more effective at stopping Curse Heracross, since it always wins the one-on-one matchup, while Zapdos is more effective at stopping Seismic Toss variants because they can't 4HKO it; however, both are very good versus either version. The rarer Reflect Zapdos can shut down Curse variants even more consistently while still doing excellently versus the Seismic Toss variant. Charizard, Moltres, and Dragonite, though far less prominent, are safe switch-ins against Heracross, bar less viable Hidden Power Rock sets. However, Dragonite must have super effective moves like Hidden Power Flying and Fire Blast, or Heracross will chip it down.

**Ghost-types**: Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, takes negligible damage from Megahorn, and can threaten Heracross with Explosion, Destiny Bond, Ice Punch freezes, or force it out with Fire Punch; however, it must watch out for Earthquake if it doesn't want to trade, and Curse sets can mitigate the danger of Explosion while somewhat avoiding Destiny Bond mind games. Misdreavus can force Heracross out with the threat of Perish trap or maybe even engage in Destiny Bond mind games, but it only functions as a soft check at most, since Megahorn still stings and can land a 3HKO with just a little bit of chip damage.

**Other Bug-resistant Pokemon**: Steelix can boost alongside Heracross with Curse and phaze it with Roar or even trade with Explosion, but it does not make for an effective Seismic Toss Heracross counter. Nidoking could potentially turn the tides around with a surprise Flamethrower or Fire Blast, but Heracross can still heal itself by using Rest, and Nidoking almost never has an active form of recovery, so it wants to avoid taking chip damage. Similarly, Heracross also has to watch out for Fire Blast from Muk, which also resists Megahorn and has reasonably decent natural bulk. Machamp can also pack Fire Blast, but it's more uncommon; furthermore, Hidden Power Flying is an option on Machamp to hit both Heracross and Exeggutor with super effective damage. Entei, although a very niche pick, can switch in with ease, set up Sunny Day, and destroy Heracross with its Fire Blast. Heracross can check itself, but you should try to manage its PP well in case you later on decide to engage in a PP war. Seismic Toss Heracross, evidently, will lose in the long run to RestTalk + Curse Heracross.

**Miltank**: Miltank can switch in safely enough and lower Heracross's Attack with Growl as well as drain Curse's PP while healing up with Milk Drink, but it can't really damage Heracross.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [Rabia, 336073]]

 

[Earthworm]

After my botched attempt to transfer this thread to Excal through mod tools, I am just going to quote the old posts.

one thing you should mention in OO is that a curse + 3attacks set (megahorn, hp rock, eq) is actually borderline decent. functions as a more specially bulky machamp with niche resistances but doesn't boast the powerful fighting stab. also gets hard walled by skarm but you can always hope they don't have it lol. my fault for not including it in the skeleton, wasn't sure if it warranted any consideration but I gave it a try and it's not horrible if you want 2 machamps on your offense team. other than that, looks good, heracross is really as simple as they come so not much needs to be said. consider it QC'd

Great analysis, as always. I'm not sure if I should try to add anything since it's already QCed, but if it still helps...

I think you should mention somewhere (in the intro maybe) that Heracross can act as a decent check to the likes of Machamp and Marowak, which is a big reason to play it in my opinion.

In the C&C section, I'm not sure if we should claim that Zapdos is the best Heracross answer alongside Skarmory unless he packs Drill Peck, as Thunder fails to 2HKO Heraceoss with Leftovers recovery, which means you have to hope for a crit against an opposing Curse Heracross if you want to beat it, because if you don't it will probably overpower you. Don't forget the accuracy of Thunder too. Offensive Dragonite doesn't stop Heracross reliably neither, since most of them don't use Fire Blast or HP Flying. The Defensive variant, however, is an excellent counter. Also, since you mentionned Gengar as an answer despite the necessity to sacrifice himself or to carry the uncommon Fire Punch in order to take the insect down, you should add Misdreavus too because the Perish Trap variant is really scary, Confuse Ray is also very annoying, although he takes much more damage from Megahorn. Finally, Miltank is a decent answer as well even though he can't kill Heracross by himself, but will completely shut down his offensive capabilities.

Again, great job.

I'm totally on board with the points made about Miltank, Dnite and Skarm being better than Zapdos(still think Zapdos is a clear cut above other options though) and already made the proper changes.

It does already say on the intro that Hera has a key resistance to eq, which suggests a decent matchup against any user of eq as a main source of damage, but since wak takes only one turn to hit incredibly hard and if you (happen to be Curse and) curse up once you're then slower and succeptible to rs flinches (while still taking 40+% damage), I'm not sure if Hera is a decent enough check for wak to be noted on the intro, as wak most likely wins the 1v1 (granted there aren't many things that can be called decent checks to it, so I believe this is still up to debate). Also the fact that fblast on champ is fairly common and that if you get unlucky sTalks you drop to the 3HKO (or of it gets lucky with CC crits) makes me unsure about calling Hera a decent check to it, the low pps on both moves do make a case for Hera, though.

I also think Missy takes a lot of damage from Megahorn and must carry Rest for it to be a reliable check to Hera, since Hera can just switch out and can sometimes even stay in to go for the kill. But seeing that Gengar can't really force out Hera without threatening to sacrifice himself or running uncommon moves, I think this might be more of a case to remove Gengar than to add Missy.

Gonna tag Lavos so he can speak his mind about all this, so we can decide what to keep/add/remove

Miltank and Misdreavus are not Heracross checks. Gengar is a check in the sense that it can boom or Dbond, but it still gets worn down and can't meaningfully chip Hera without Fire Punch, which is barely used. So it's only "checking" Hera by trading with it, and that's not always a good trade to make. Reflect+Haze Dragonite is so rare nowadays that it's hardly worth a mention.

Zapdos is the best offensive answer to Heracross and it does threaten a 2HKO with Spikes damage accounted for. Hera can't break it, so it doesn't matter if Thunder misses the 2HKO from full, Zap can force it to Rest and is likely to kill it from there. Skarm is a good defensive answer but provides far less return momentum, additionally most Skarm don't run Sleep Talk meaning Hera can eventually force a Rest via Stoss which will open up a hole for the Hera user to exploit.

What is it that I'm failing to see about Miltank? I get that mHorn is a 3HKO on flat stats, but imo she can switch in and growl+milk drink away, rendering hera useless easily enough. Also, since defensive Dnite is rare, does the offensive one pack STAB Flying or a Fire move frequently enough to force hera out?

Ok I'm pretty neutral on Miltank, list it if you want. Offensive Dnite is also pretty rare but it's almost exclusively the standard Boltbeam+Dpunch+para move (body slam or twave). Hera can chip it down unless it has one of those coverage moves

Zapdos+Skarm are the 2 quintessential Heracross counters.

Dragonite/Gengar/Nidoking can check Hera depending on their moveset (aka using a Fire-Move). Muk and Machamp can somewhat check Hera too with their respective Firemove because they resists MHorn. Stoss-Hera can wear most of these mons down tho (exception: Gengar).
Steelix and Miltank arent really checks because they cant really do much back to Heracross but they can delay it (especially the Cursevariants) and stall its moves for a bit. So they are fine midgame answers to Hera.

Generally one can say that Heracross derives most of its value from its defensive qualities (typing+stats) which makes it one of the best checks to a gross amount of mixed attackers and physical threats like Machamp/Marowak. Most of the time Heracross wont be a huge offensive presence due to its rather peculiar move pool but its Mega Horn is strong enough to threaten most of GSC with a 3hko and his 100% counters are few and far between. If those few counters werent as popular as they are Heracross would be a greater threat. Mega Horn is just barely strong enough to attain critical KO's (3hko on Suicune, 2hko on Marowak after Spikes, 2hko vs Raikou, 3hko vs Lax).

Seismic Toss is the more useful 4th move most of the time because with it Hera provides value during the entire game chipping away at all mons and countering/checking the shits hes supposed to check better (mixed stuff like Nido who resists Mhorn, Machamp).
Curse on the other hand makes Heracross a potent lategame powerhouse that needs alot of support to remove the multitude of its checks (for example Steelix somewhat counters Curse-Hera whereas Stoss-Hera checks Steelix).

EQ is a niche option that is worse than both Curse/Stoss most of the time and only works on very few teams. Hidden Power Rock is a bad 4th coverage because it doesnt achieve even a 3hko vs Zapdos its most important target. HP[Rock] is probably only worth it on a Curse3ATk-Set which isnt really viable either.
HP[Fighting] has probably more worth than HP[Rock] tbh.

Good writeup all in all. :thumbsup:

The difference between a "check" and a "counter" should be kept in mind when critiquing what is listed in C&C sections.

Like, yeah, nothing holds a torch to Skarm & Zapdos' ability to counter Heracross. But Miltank & Misdreavus can show up in a pinch to force it out. Missy obviously needs to be full-health and have Ptrap, whereas Miltank (like all the things it checks) also needs to be plenty healthy and dies to an unfortunate crit, but it still works well enough because even HP Fighting variants fail to 2HKO (which you need to be able to beat something with instant recovery).

It's worth noting that an SPL team of Exeggutor/Cloyster/Raikou/Misdreavus/Miltank/Snorlax got me plenty of wins, and that team basically leans on Miltank for Heracross support. And it does pretty well against Heracross, too. It's usually things like Gengar & Exeggutor (especially those with Thief, haha) that give that team headaches.

Reversal probably needs to have a deeper treatment; it's pretty good, for real. Reversal can even get a 2HKO on Skarm. Shit's bananas when it goes off. The main problems are cleric clause & getting a savvy opponent to actually bother attacking Heracross so you can Endure down to 1HP. Spikes are an obvious issue too, but that actually has an easy (if hand-tying) fix: just run Starmie as mandatory support. Heracross' base 85 speed is also not a liability, that's positively blistering in the GSC metagame. Against a Zapdos/Cloyster/Exeggutor/Snorlax/Steelix/Machamp team, blow up on the Zapdos and guess what else can outspeed Heracross? Nothing baby!

amcheck
add remove (comments)

bug

[OVERVIEW]

Heracross has a decent SpDef stat Special Defense and a really high Attack, which lets it take quite a few special hits on the Special side and fire back hard on the Physical side physically. Its Bug typing is both a blessing and a curse, meaning it can allows it to switch into the very common Earthquake easily, which effectively checks Nidoking and Steelix, for example, since they rarely pack any Fire-type moves. (effectively checking Nidoking and Steelix, for example, since they rarely pack any Fire-type moves) but However, this also leaves his its only prominent STAB move resisted by very common types, (AC) such as Flying and Steel.

[SET]

Set 1: SleepTalk
Item: Leftovers
Move 1: Rest
Move 2: Sleep Talk
Move 3: Megahorn
Move 4: Curse / Seismic Toss

[SET COMMENTS]

Heracross has quite the shallow movepool and but a decent combination of bulk and typing, which makes RestTalking the perfect strategy for it. Megahorn is the 120 Base Power STAB nuke, which a 120 BP STAB move that heavily dents anything that doesn't resist it. Curse and or Seismic Toss rounds up the set, (AC) providing respectively late game either late-game sweeping power and or a better way to hit Skarmory so another teamate (like Marowak or DrumLax) teammate like Marowak or Drumlax has an easier time taking it down.

Unfortunately, most things Pokemon that do resist the main move Megahorn like Zapdos and Skarmory are quite common and shut Heracross down quite easily, like Zapdos and (especially) Skarmory, so getting rid of its common checks is crucial for Heracross to shine. Even Seismic Toss only does 30% to Skarmory and even less to Zapdos, so even if you get them on the switch, it's usually best to just switch Heracross out.

[Other Options]

Earthquake provides really good coverage, since it hits things like Gengar, Nidoking, (AC) which otherwise might stay in to deal chip damage, (AC) (who otherwise might stay in to chip Heracross) and Raikou, (AC) which gets 2HKOed by it, (AC) and Gengar (practically securing the 2HKO that Megahorn almost always fails to get) super effectively, but it does nothing to combat Hera’s Heracross's main problem of Zapdos and Skarmory being unbreakable, so the main set is usually better.

You Heracross can opt to have a Curse+3 attacks (Megahorn, Earthquake and Hidden Power Rock) for a set utilizing Curse, Megahorn, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Rock if you want to exchange staying power for offensive pressure. This set works like a poor man's Curse Machamp, (RC) with better special bulk and key resistances, but it has a worse STAB move and is still hard walled by Skarmory, like the main set.

An Endure + Reversal (added spaces) set is marginally viable, but Heracross isn’t fast enough for it to be consistent, not to mention it’s only a one-time use if Spikes are in play.

[Checks and Counters]

Skarmory is the best defensive check, while Zapdos is the best offensive one, but. (add period) Charizard and Dragonite, though far less prominent, are safe switch-ins too for almost all Heracross, bar less viable Hidden Power Rock sets. Keep in mind that Dragonite must have super effective moves, (AC) or Heracross might chip it down. Steelix can’t do much besides trade with Explosion or phaze with Roar it out, but it’s hard to break through and takes 5 five Seismic Tosses to KO (Earthquake does roughly the same damage, but far less if Steelix already has a Curse under its belt, which is usually does). Miltank can switch in safely enough and Growl your damage and/or lower Heracross's Attack with Growl as well as curse pp Curse PP (not sure what this means tbh) away while healing up with Milk Drink, but it can't really damage Heracross. Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, takes negligible damage from Megahorn, (AC) and can threaten Heracross with Explosion or Destiny Bond, but it must watch out for Earthquake if it doesn't want to trade, (AC) and Curse sets can mitigate the danger of Explosion while helping with DBond mindgames Destiny Bond mind games. Do note that unless Gengar is carrying the rare Fire Punch, it cannot force Heracross out without threatening to also faint. Heracross can check itself, but it's not recommended unless you're ok with starting willing to start a pp war (replace this with whatever it's supposed to mean) with your opponent or you're if your Heracross is packing Curse and they're theirs is not.

 

[Excal]

I added significant detail to almost every part of the analysis, added many components from all the previous feedback, implemented the amcheck, and cleaned up a lot of loose ends. I think this is QC ready!

 

[Earthworm]

Heracross's only prominent STAB move, Megahorn, is resisted by very common types like Flying- and Steel-type for example. This means that a healthy Zapdos, Skarmory, Gengar, and Steelix can reliably pivot in and cause trouble for the Hercules beetle with the threats of Thunder from Zapdos, Drill Peck/Whirlwind from Skarmory, Explosion from Gengar, and Roar/Explosion from Steelix, among some more niche moves from these Pokemon.

This part feels a bit incomplete. I would end this paragraph by saying that while it is effective at shutting down some difficult threats throughout the game, it typically needs to be more patient and wait for Pokemon to get KOed or weakened before it can go to town itself.

Combining these attributes, Heracross can have decent matchups against Pokemon like Raikou, Suicune, Nidoking. Raikou's Thunder only has around a four percent chance to 2HKO Heracross after Spikes while Heracross has a guaranteed 2HKO after Spikes with Megahorn; Thunderbolt variants of Raikou have an extremely miniscule chance to 3HKO Heracross from full health, so it can effectively use Rest and Sleep Talk to force it out. Heracross outdamages Suicune and doesn't mind Toxic too much as it can easily use Rest to remove poison, making it a very reliable Suicune pivot. Nidoking needs Flamethrower to damage Heracross more significantly; otherwise, Heracross absorbs Nidoking's Lovely Kiss and despite Nidoking's Bug-type resistance, Megahorn still does a nice chunk of damage.

This seems like too much matchup detail for Pokemon that are like 35/65 vs Hera and will probably just hit it on the switch for a big chunk then switch out. Nidoking is also strange to mention here since before this you were talking about Heracross's big damage on neutral targets. I'd try to summarise this part of the paragraph as much as possible if you are going to keep it.

Seismic Toss does a great job at chipping Pokemon like Zapdos and Skarmory that enter into Heracross, although Heracross will most likely have to switch out afterward.

I'd remove Zapdos from here, it barely cares at all. I'd also describe the Skarmory thing in more detail, i.e. because Hera outspeeds, if it switches out to an elec as Skarm rests, non stalk skarm can no longer switch in safely due to being 4hkoed by stoss.

Using a Self-Destruct CurseLax with Heracross is a great way to lure and heavily damage opposing Skarmory.

Definitely say KO instead of heavily damage.

Also, it can use Fire Blast or even the rare Thunderbolt to deal significant damage to Skarmory and even Cloyster who threatens Explosion and can take an unboosted Megahorn decently well.

I think these mentions are unnecessary. Fire Blast is not a surprise so Skarmory will typically switch out of Ttar, and Tbolt is too niche. If anything, I'd possibly mention Pursuit chipping Skarmory for STossCross.

Defensively, Starmie forms an excellent core with Heracross for providing Rapid Spin, doing very well versus Machamp, and resisting both of Jynx's STAB moves; however, more insurance will be needed versus Snorlax when combining these two together.

Machamp is odd to mention here, unless you mean the variants Heracross doesn't handle well, in which case you should say that. I am a little bit sceptical about their synergy as well. I would consider taking Starmie out of here.

[Other Options]

One of Heracross's selling points is its ability to shrug off status via its longevity and Rest, so taking status will particularly hurt this set and Heracross's ability to consistently check Suicune.

I don't think you need to mention Suicune here, plenty of common Pokemon handle it fine. Also, the causation in this sentence and the one prior ("so"/"as") sounds off to me. Not sure on Starmie being the only choice for Spin support mention but I don't mind it too much.

Maybe mention Thief and Counter at the end.

[Checks and Counters]

Steelix can’t do much besides trade with Explosion or phaze with Roar, but Curse sets are completely unable to beat it.

Steelix can Curse up against Curse Heracross then phaze it. It makes a pretty bad answer to SToss cross though.

Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, takes negligible damage from Megahorn, and can threaten Heracross with Explosion or Destiny Bond, but it must watch out for Earthquake if it doesn't want to trade, and Curse sets can mitigate the danger of Explosion while helping with Destiny Bond mind games. Note that unless Gengar is carrying the rare Fire Punch, it cannot force Heracross out without threatening Explosion or Destiny Bond.

Gengar is also fairly well-positioned to go for a freeze against SToss Heracross in particular.

Speaking of Fire-type moves, Heracross also has to watch out for Fire Blast Machamp and even much more off-beat Pokemon's Fire-type moves like Muk's Fire Blast.

I would separate these because FB is less common on Champ and almost always on Muk. You can then mention that Machamp can run HP Flying for Heracross which still allows it to hit Exeggutor SE.

Misdreavus can force Heracross out with the threat of Perish-Trap or maybe even engage in Destiny Bond mind games, but only functions as a soft check at most.

I think it'd be worthwhile to mention the XHKO from unboosted Megahorn here.

Heracross can check itself, but it's not recommended unless you're willing to start a PP war with your opponent or if your Heracross is packing Curse and theirs is not.

I don't think these reasons justify saying that it is not recommended.

 

[Excal]

Thanks so much for the detailed feedback, Earthworm!

This part feels a bit incomplete. I would end this paragraph by saying that while it is effective at shutting down some difficult threats throughout the game, it typically needs to be more patient and wait for Pokemon to get KOed or weakened before it can go to town itself.

Implemented.

This seems like too much matchup detail for Pokemon that are like 35/65 vs Hera and will probably just hit it on the switch for a big chunk then switch out. Nidoking is also strange to mention here since before this you were talking about Heracross's big damage on neutral targets. I'd try to summarise this part of the paragraph as much as possible if you are going to keep it.

You're right, there was way too much unnecessary detail. I decided it was still important to highlight Raikou and Suicune as examples here (took out Nidoking), so I just reduced the detail heavily and mentioned Hera's ability to often force both these Pokemon out. There may still be a bit of room for improvement in this section, so let me know what you think.

I'd remove Zapdos from here, it barely cares at all. I'd also describe the Skarmory thing in more detail, i.e. because Hera outspeeds, if it switches out to an elec as Skarm rests, non stalk skarm can no longer switch in safely due to being 4hkoed by stoss.

Implemented.

Definitely say KO instead of heavily damage.

Implemented.

I think these mentions are unnecessary. Fire Blast is not a surprise so Skarmory will typically switch out of Ttar, and Tbolt is too niche. If anything, I'd possibly mention Pursuit chipping Skarmory for STossCross.

Implemented.

Machamp is odd to mention here, unless you mean the variants Heracross doesn't handle well, in which case you should say that. I am a little bit sceptical about their synergy as well. I would consider taking Starmie out of here.

I took Starmie out, you're right. My original intention was to express that the two paired together make things incredibly difficult for Machamp and I've seen some people use the two together, but the Snorlax weakness kind of stinks and I agree that their synergy is questionable.

I don't think you need to mention Suicune here, plenty of common Pokemon handle it fine. Also, the causation in this sentence and the one prior ("so"/"as") sounds off to me. Not sure on Starmie being the only choice for Spin support mention but I don't mind it too much.

Removed mention of Suicune and re-worded the part with Starmie being "mandatory". I just said Rapid Spin support is mandatory and highlighted Starmie as the example. Also re-worded the sentence so that the causation wasn't off.

Maybe mention Thief and Counter at the end.

Included a brief mention of these moves for the sake of their existence, but admittedly I haven't used them much. I added very brief descriptions about their potential, but it's highly likely I missed a target with Counter or maybe I didn't elaborate enough with Thief. Let me know what you think.

Steelix can Curse up against Curse Heracross then phaze it. It makes a pretty bad answer to SToss cross though.

Implemented.

Gengar is also fairly well-positioned to go for a freeze against SToss Heracross in particular.

Implemented.

I would separate these because FB is less common on Champ and almost always on Muk. You can then mention that Machamp can run HP Flying for Heracross which still allows it to hit Exeggutor SE.

Implemented.

I think it'd be worthwhile to mention the XHKO from unboosted Megahorn here.

Implemented.

I don't think these reasons justify saying that it is not recommended.

This was a remnant of the last writeup, I reworded this part more accurately.

I also made some other more nuanced changes like separating Checks & Counters into two paragraphs, moving Charizard and Dragonite to the bottom with the more niche answers and adding Moltres as a mention within that sentence, added a mention of Entei in counters, consolidated the team options into one paragraph, etc.

 

[Excal]

After talking with Earthworm I made a few new changes, and notably removed the mention of Thief. We decided that Heracross does not have the right qualities to properly utilize the move.

 

[Earthworm]

This is now QC 1/2.

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

If Nidoking has a Fire-type move like Flamethrower, it can check Heracross reasonably well, but this is quite rare.

It's still not as clear since Heracross has the chance to heal itself with RestTalk while Nido has no active form of recovery. I'd probably remove Nido as a potential check but mention that Heracross could be catched off-guard by a Fire Blast/Flamethrower Nidoking which can turn the matchup around.

Tyranitar is a great teammate for being an essential Normal-type resist and a trapper that can assist in taking down meddling Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus and can even take advantage of Skarmory's fear of Fire Blast to chip it with Pursuit, bringing it closer to the range Seismic Toss Heracross can KO it from.

I'd probably reword this. Misdreavus gets chipped by Megahorn even without Curse and Gengar has a bad matchup vs CurseHera unless it has some uncommon set (Fire Punch, Psychic, PerishTrap). Minor nitpick though and I'd give my approval even if you want to keep it that way.

I think it's worth pointing out that Zapdos is the better check for SToss variants and Skarm excels at checking Curse ones which can influence which lures you want to pair with your Hera.
Both are great checks for either variant of course.

Great analysis!

 

[Excal]

Thanks for the feedback, FOMG!

It's still not as clear since Heracross has the chance to heal itself with RestTalk while Nido has no active form of recovery. I'd probably remove Nido as a potential check but mention that Heracross could be catched off-guard by a Fire Blast/Flamethrower Nidoking which can turn the matchup around.

I agree here, but decided to reword it to account for the very rare Morning Sun Nidoking by saying this:
"Nidoking could potentially turn the tides around with a surprise Flamethrower or Fire Blast, but Heracross can still heal itself by using Rest and Nidoking almost never has an active form of recovery, so it wants to avoid taking chip damage."

I'd probably reword this. Misdreavus gets chipped by Megahorn even without Curse and Gengar has a bad matchup vs CurseHera unless it has some uncommon set (Fire Punch, Psychic, PerishTrap). Minor nitpick though and I'd give my approval even if you want to keep it that way.

Both, especially Gengar, can potentially make life difficult for Heracross, so I decided to reword it to be less absolute. Hopefully this change improves it:
"Tyranitar is a great teammate for being an essential Normal-type resist and a trapper that can assist in taking down meddling Ghost-types like Gengar and Misdreavus that have a chance at causing trouble for Heracross; Tyranitar can even take advantage of Skarmory's fear of Fire Blast to chip it with Pursuit, bringing it closer to the range Seismic Toss Heracross can KO it from."

I think it's worth pointing out that Zapdos is the better check for SToss variants and Skarm excels at checking Curse ones which can influence which lures you want to pair with your Hera.
Both are great checks for either variant of course.

Here's how I added this detail:
"Skarmory is the best defensive check while Zapdos is the best offensive check, meaning that Skarmory is more effective at stopping Curse Heracross while Zapdos is more effective at stopping Seismic Toss variants, but both are very good versus either version."

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

We talked on discord and made some small improvements. QC 2/2

 

[Excal]

This analysis is now GP Ready!

 

[Lumari]

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2

check

[OVERVIEW]

Heracross's has decent Special Defense and really high Attack, which lets let it take quite a few special hits and fire back hard physically. Furthermore, its Bug typing gives it key resistances to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks, allowing allow it to check Pokemon like Nidoking, Golem, Steelix, and Machamp; when it's healthy, it can safely switch in and check an unboosted Marowak that lacks the uncommon Hidden Power Flying. On top of its high Attack and Special Defense, its Speed is quite good. This allows Heracross to outspeed Exeggutor, Tyranitar, and Umbreon, which all get maimed by Megahorn.

However, Heracross's only prominent STAB move, Megahorn, is resisted by very common types like Flying (RC) and Steel-type for example. This means that Pokemon like a healthy Zapdos, Skarmory, and Steelix can reliably pivot in and cause trouble for the Hercules beetle, (AC) with the threats of Thunder from Zapdos, Drill Peck or Whirlwind from Skarmory, and Roar or Explosion from Steelix, among some more niche moves from these Pokemon. Overall, Heracross can be very effective at shutting down difficult threats throughout the game, but patience must be exhibited when using it, as it needs to wait for some Pokemon that may very well be long-lasting to get KOed or weakened before it can try to clean.

[SET]
Set 1 name: RestTalk
Item: Leftovers
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Curse / Seismic Toss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

Heracross has quite the shallow movepool but a decent combination of bulk and typing, which makes Rest-Talking RestTalk the perfect strategy for it. Megahorn will heavily dent anything that doesn't resist it. Combining these attributes, Heracross can have decent matchups against Pokemon like Raikou and Suicune. Raikou sustains massive damage from Megahorn, and Heracross also outdamages Suicune while not minding Toxic too much thanks to Rest, as it can easily use Rest to remove poison, making it a very reliable Suicune pivot and enabling it to force Suicune out often.

For the last moveslot, either Curse or and Seismic Toss are the two best choices. Curse can make Heracross an extremely effective late-game sweeper after checks like Skarmory, Steelix, and Zapdos have been removed from the battle. In more desperate situations, with timely Thunder misses from Zapdos, Heracross may actually be able to edge out in the 1v1 one-on-one scenario, but this is unlikely and extremely risky. Curse can also allow Heracross to match up decently versus Snorlax sometimes, as Megahorn does quite a lot of damage, (AC) and even after a Curse, Heracross still outspeeds Snorlax.

Seismic Toss is more of a conservative and defensive choice, which gives Heracross more consistent damage output against Pokemon like Machamp, Steelix, and even Nidoking, which all resist Megahorn. Seismic Toss does a great job at chipping Skarmory when it enters into Heracross, and if Skarmory uses Rest and is forced out without burning any sleep turns, it can no longer safely switch into Heracross because it gets outsped and Seismic Toss is a 4HKO from full. Otherwise, Heracross will most likely have to switch out after hitting a healthy Skarmory with a Seismic Toss. Also, Seismic Toss gives Forretress more trouble, especially since it's a Pokemon that usually does not heal has no recovery other than passive Leftovers recovery. However, without Curse, Heracross will not be as potent of an endgame cleaner.

[Team Options]

Unfortunately, most Pokemon that resist Megahorn like Zapdos and Skarmory are quite common and shut Heracross down quite easily, so getting rid of its common checks is crucial for Heracross to shine. This means that Heracross really appreciates lures for these Pokemon. Using a Self-Destruct CurseLax with Heracross is a great way to lure and KO opposing Skarmory. Exeggutor can often cripple and even force an Explosion on Zapdos; ("remove Zapdos with Explosion"? not sure how else it makes sense) it can also use Hidden Power Fire to pressure Skarmory and cripple it with a status move as well. Tyranitar is a great teammate for being an essential Normal-type resist switch-in and a Pursuit trapper that can assist in taking down meddling Ghost-types like Gengar; it can even take advantage of Skarmory's fear of Fire Blast to chip it with Pursuit, bringing it closer to the range Seismic Toss Heracross can KO it from. An additional sleep absorber like Sleep Talk Raikou or Sleep Talk Snorlax can pair decently well with Heracross to match up well versus both Zapdos and Jynx. In Raikou's case, Heracross can absorb sleep from Nidoking and Snorlax while Raikou covers Jynx and Exeggutor. Golem provides Rapid Spin, a Normal-type resistance, and more offensive presence as a spinner, which pairs nicely with Heracross both offensively and defensively. Raikou will check both Zapdos and Skarmory defensively, two of Heracross's worst nemeses, while Heracross checks Nidoking and Machamp, giving the two Pokemon great defensive synergy as well.

[Other Options]

Earthquake provides really good coverage since it hits on Pokemon like Gengar, Nidoking, and Raikou, which otherwise might stay in to deal chip damage, but since (reduces run-on technically) it does nothing to combat Zapdos and Skarmory, so moves like Curse and Seismic Toss are usually better.

Heracross can opt for a set utilizing Curse, Megahorn, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Rock if you want to exchange staying power for offensive pressure. This set works like Curse Machamp but with better special bulk and key resistances; however, compared to Machamp, it has a worse STAB move, (AC) and it's still walled by Skarmory.

An Endure + Reversal set is marginally viable, (AC) as Reversal can 2HKO Skarmory, but it is difficult to pull off, as its biggest issue is simply that it's difficult to get the opponent to attack and lower your Heracross's HP down to 1%. One of Heracross's selling points is its ability to shrug off status via its longevity and Rest, but this variant of Heracross will despise status. Also, if Spikes are in play, it’s only a one-time use, so Rapid Spin support should be mandatory with this set. Starmie fits the role well here, as it can potentially remove Gengar with Psychic or slow down faster Pokemon with Thunder Wave.

Counter can be used to bait and take out Snorlax and Machamp, and with Curse it can be used to bait remove Skarmory, but the Curse set is more consistent against Snorlax, (AC) and it's probably more effective for other teammates to remove Skarmory to support Heracross's potential endgame clean; Counter can also potentially be used against Marowak, but this is far less realistic.

[Checks and Counters]

Skarmory and Zapdos are the most reliable Heracross checks. Skarmory is more effective at stopping Curse Heracross, (AC) since it always wins the 1v1 one-on-one matchup, while Zapdos is more effective at stopping Seismic Toss variants because it's not 4HKOed by Seismic Toss they can't 4HKO it; (SC) but however, both are very good versus either version. The rarer Reflect Zapdos can shut down Curse variants even more consistently while still doing excellently versus the Seismic Toss variant. Steelix can boost alongside Heracross with Curse and phaze it with Roar (RC) or even trade with Explosion, but it does not make for an effective Seismic Toss Heracross counter. Miltank can switch in safely enough and lower Heracross's Attack with Growl as well as drain Curse PP away while healing up with Milk Drink, but it can't really damage Heracross. Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, takes negligible damage from Megahorn, and can threaten Heracross with Explosion, Destiny Bond, or freezes with Ice Punch freezes or force it out with Fire Punch; however, but it must watch out for Earthquake if it doesn't want to trade, (AC) and Curse sets can mitigate the danger of Explosion while helping with somewhat avoiding Destiny Bond mind games; Fire Punch can also be used to force Heracross out. Nidoking could potentially turn the tides around with a surprise Flamethrower or Fire Blast, but Heracross can still heal itself by using Rest, (AC) and Nidoking almost never has an active form of recovery, so it wants to avoid taking chip damage.

Speaking of Fire-type moves, Similarly, Heracross also has to watch out for Fire Blast from Muk, which also resists Megahorn and has reasonably decent natural bulk. Machamp can also pack Fire Blast which threatens Heracross, but it's more uncommon; furthermore, Hidden Power Flying from Machamp is an option on Machamp to hit both Heracross and Exeggutor with super effective damage, so Heracross must also watch out for that. Charizard, Moltres, and Dragonite, though far less prominent, are safe switch-ins against Heracross, bar less viable Hidden Power Rock sets. However, Dragonite must have super effective moves like Hidden Power Flying or and Fire Blast, or Heracross might chip it down. Entei, although a very niche pick, can switch in with ease, set up a Sunny Day, and destroy Heracross with its Fire Blast. Misdreavus can force Heracross out with the threat of Perish trap (RH) or maybe even engage in Destiny Bond mind games, but it only functions as a soft check at most, AC) because Megahorn still stings and can land a 3HKO with just a little bit of chip damage. Heracross can check itself, but you should try to manage your its PP well in case later on you later on decide to engage in a PP war. Seismic Toss Heracross, evidently, will lose in the long run to RestTalk + Curse Heracross.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[Excal]

remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2

check

[OVERVIEW]

Heracross's has decent Special Defense and really high Attack, which lets let it take quite a few special hits and fire back hard physically. Furthermore, its Bug typing gives it key resistances to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks, allowing allow it to check Pokemon like Nidoking, Golem, Steelix, and Machamp; when it's healthy, it can safely switch in and check an unboosted Marowak that lacks the uncommon Hidden Power Flying. On top of its high Attack and Special Defense, its Speed is quite good. This allows Heracross to outspeed Exeggutor, Tyranitar, and Umbreon, which all get maimed by Megahorn.

However, Heracross's only prominent STAB move, Megahorn, is resisted by very common types like Flying (RC) and Steel-type for example. This means that Pokemon like a healthy Zapdos, Skarmory, and Steelix can reliably pivot in and cause trouble for the Hercules beetle, (AC) with the threats of Thunder from Zapdos, Drill Peck or Whirlwind from Skarmory, and Roar or Explosion from Steelix, among some more niche moves from these Pokemon. Overall, Heracross can be very effective at shutting down difficult threats throughout the game, but patience must be exhibited when using it, as it needs to wait for some Pokemon that may very well be long-lasting to get KOed or weakened before it can try to clean.

[SET]
Set 1 name: RestTalk
Item: Leftovers
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Curse / Seismic Toss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]

Heracross has quite the shallow movepool but a decent combination of bulk and typing, which makes Rest-Talking RestTalk the perfect strategy for it. Megahorn will heavily dent anything that doesn't resist it. Combining these attributes, Heracross can have decent matchups against Pokemon like Raikou and Suicune. Raikou sustains massive damage from Megahorn, and Heracross also outdamages Suicune while not minding Toxic too much thanks to Rest, as it can easily use Rest to remove poison, making it a very reliable Suicune pivot and enabling it to force Suicune out often.

For the last moveslot, either Curse or and Seismic Toss are the two best choices. Curse can make Heracross an extremely effective late-game sweeper after checks like Skarmory, Steelix, and Zapdos have been removed from the battle. In more desperate situations, with timely Thunder misses from Zapdos, Heracross may actually be able to edge out in the 1v1 one-on-one scenario, but this is unlikely and extremely risky. Curse can also allow Heracross to match up decently versus Snorlax sometimes, as Megahorn does quite a lot of damage, (AC) and even after a Curse, Heracross still outspeeds Snorlax.

Seismic Toss is more of a conservative and defensive choice, which gives Heracross more consistent damage output against Pokemon like Machamp, Steelix, and even Nidoking, which all resist Megahorn. Seismic Toss does a great job at chipping Skarmory when it enters into Heracross, and if Skarmory uses Rest and is forced out without burning any sleep turns, it can no longer safely switch into Heracross because it gets outsped and Seismic Toss is a 4HKO from full. Otherwise, Heracross will most likely have to switch out after hitting a healthy Skarmory with a Seismic Toss. Also, Seismic Toss gives Forretress more trouble, especially since it's a Pokemon that usually does not heal has no recovery other than passive Leftovers recovery. However, without Curse, Heracross will not be as potent of an endgame cleaner.

[Team Options]

Unfortunately, most Pokemon that resist Megahorn like Zapdos and Skarmory are quite common and shut Heracross down quite easily, so getting rid of its common checks is crucial for Heracross to shine. This means that Heracross really appreciates lures for these Pokemon. Using a Self-Destruct CurseLax with Heracross is a great way to lure and KO opposing Skarmory. Exeggutor can often cripple and even force an Explosion on Zapdos; ("remove Zapdos with Explosion"? not sure how else it makes sense) it can also use Hidden Power Fire to pressure Skarmory and cripple it with a status move as well. Tyranitar is a great teammate for being an essential Normal-type resist switch-in and a Pursuit trapper that can assist in taking down meddling Ghost-types like Gengar; it can even take advantage of Skarmory's fear of Fire Blast to chip it with Pursuit, bringing it closer to the range Seismic Toss Heracross can KO it from. An additional sleep absorber like Sleep Talk Raikou or Sleep Talk Snorlax can pair decently well with Heracross to match up well versus both Zapdos and Jynx. In Raikou's case, Heracross can absorb sleep from Nidoking and Snorlax while Raikou covers Jynx and Exeggutor. Golem provides Rapid Spin, a Normal-type resistance, and more offensive presence as a spinner, which pairs nicely with Heracross both offensively and defensively. Raikou will check both Zapdos and Skarmory defensively, two of Heracross's worst nemeses, while Heracross checks Nidoking and Machamp, giving the two Pokemon great defensive synergy as well.

[Other Options]

Earthquake provides really good coverage since it hits on Pokemon like Gengar, Nidoking, and Raikou, which otherwise might stay in to deal chip damage, but since (reduces run-on technically) it does nothing to combat Zapdos and Skarmory, so moves like Curse and Seismic Toss are usually better.

Heracross can opt for a set utilizing Curse, Megahorn, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Rock if you want to exchange staying power for offensive pressure. This set works like Curse Machamp but with better special bulk and key resistances; however, compared to Machamp, it has a worse STAB move, (AC) and it's still walled by Skarmory.

An Endure + Reversal set is marginally viable, (AC) as Reversal can 2HKO Skarmory, but it is difficult to pull off, as its biggest issue is simply that it's difficult to get the opponent to attack and lower your Heracross's HP down to 1%. One of Heracross's selling points is its ability to shrug off status via its longevity and Rest, but this variant of Heracross will despise status. Also, if Spikes are in play, it’s only a one-time use, so Rapid Spin support should be mandatory with this set. Starmie fits the role well here, as it can potentially remove Gengar with Psychic or slow down faster Pokemon with Thunder Wave.

Counter can be used to bait and take out Snorlax and Machamp, and with Curse it can be used to bait remove Skarmory, but the Curse set is more consistent against Snorlax, (AC) and it's probably more effective for other teammates to remove Skarmory to support Heracross's potential endgame clean; Counter can also potentially be used against Marowak, but this is far less realistic.

[Checks and Counters]

Skarmory and Zapdos are the most reliable Heracross checks. Skarmory is more effective at stopping Curse Heracross, (AC) since it always wins the 1v1 one-on-one matchup, while Zapdos is more effective at stopping Seismic Toss variants because it's not 4HKOed by Seismic Toss they can't 4HKO it; (SC) but however, both are very good versus either version. The rarer Reflect Zapdos can shut down Curse variants even more consistently while still doing excellently versus the Seismic Toss variant. Steelix can boost alongside Heracross with Curse and phaze it with Roar (RC) or even trade with Explosion, but it does not make for an effective Seismic Toss Heracross counter. Miltank can switch in safely enough and lower Heracross's Attack with Growl as well as drain Curse PP away while healing up with Milk Drink, but it can't really damage Heracross. Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, takes negligible damage from Megahorn, and can threaten Heracross with Explosion, Destiny Bond, or freezes with Ice Punch freezes or force it out with Fire Punch; however, but it must watch out for Earthquake if it doesn't want to trade, (AC) and Curse sets can mitigate the danger of Explosion while helping with somewhat avoiding Destiny Bond mind games; Fire Punch can also be used to force Heracross out. Nidoking could potentially turn the tides around with a surprise Flamethrower or Fire Blast, but Heracross can still heal itself by using Rest, (AC) and Nidoking almost never has an active form of recovery, so it wants to avoid taking chip damage.

Speaking of Fire-type moves, Similarly, Heracross also has to watch out for Fire Blast from Muk, which also resists Megahorn and has reasonably decent natural bulk. Machamp can also pack Fire Blast which threatens Heracross, but it's more uncommon; furthermore, Hidden Power Flying from Machamp is an option on Machamp to hit both Heracross and Exeggutor with super effective damage, so Heracross must also watch out for that. Charizard, Moltres, and Dragonite, though far less prominent, are safe switch-ins against Heracross, bar less viable Hidden Power Rock sets. However, Dragonite must have super effective moves like Hidden Power Flying or and Fire Blast, or Heracross might chip it down. Entei, although a very niche pick, can switch in with ease, set up a Sunny Day, and destroy Heracross with its Fire Blast. Misdreavus can force Heracross out with the threat of Perish trap (RH) or maybe even engage in Destiny Bond mind games, but it only functions as a soft check at most, AC) because Megahorn still stings and can land a 3HKO with just a little bit of chip damage. Heracross can check itself, but you should try to manage your its PP well in case later on you later on decide to engage in a PP war. Seismic Toss Heracross, evidently, will lose in the long run to RestTalk + Curse Heracross.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

Thanks so much for the check! This is now GP 1/2.

 

[Rabia]

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[OVERVIEW]

Heracross's decent Special Defense and high Attack let it take quite a few special hits and fire back hard physically. Furthermore, its key resistances to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks allow it to check Pokemon like Nidoking, Golem, Steelix, and Machamp; when it's healthy, it can safely switch in and check an unboosted Marowak that lacks the uncommon Hidden Power Flying. On top of its high Attack and Special Defense, its Speed is quite good. This allows Heracross to outspeed Exeggutor, Tyranitar, and Umbreon, which all get maimed by Megahorn.

However, Heracross's only prominent (feel like an adjective like "viable" is what you mean here?) STAB move, Megahorn, is resisted by very common types like Flying and Steel. This means that Pokemon like a healthy Zapdos, Skarmory, and Steelix can reliably pivot in and cause trouble for the Hercules beetle, (there was a double space here)with the threats of Thunder from Zapdos, Drill Peck or Whirlwind from Skarmory, and Roar or Explosion from Steelix, among some more niche moves from these Pokemon. Overall, Heracross can be very effective at shutting down difficult threats throughout the game, but patience must be exhibited when using it, as it needs to wait for some Pokemon that may very well be long-lasting to get KOed or weakened before it can try to clean.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Megahorn
move 4: Curse / Seismic Toss
item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Heracross has quite the shallow movepool but a decent combination of bulk and typing, which makes RestTalk the perfect strategy for it. Megahorn will heavily dent anything that doesn't resist it. Combining these attributes, Heracross can have decent matchups against Pokemon like Raikou and Suicune. Raikou sustains massive damage from Megahorn, and Heracross also outdamages Suicune while not minding Toxic too much thanks to Rest, making it a very reliable Suicune pivot and enabling it to force Suicune out often.

For the last moveslot, Curse and Seismic Toss are the two best choices. Curse can make Heracross an extremely effective late-game sweeper after checks like Skarmory, Steelix, and Zapdos have been removed from the battle. In more desperate situations, with timely Thunder misses from Zapdos, Heracross may actually be able to edge it out in the one-on-one scenario, but this is unlikely and extremely risky. Curse can also allow Heracross to match up decently versus Snorlax sometimes, as Megahorn does quite a lot of damage, and even after a Curse, Heracross still outspeeds Snorlax.

Seismic Toss is more of a conservative and defensive choice, which gives Heracross more consistent damage output against Pokemon like Machamp, Steelix, and even Nidoking, which all resist Megahorn. Seismic Toss does a great job at chipping Skarmory when it enters into Heracross, and if Skarmory uses Rest and is forced out without burning any sleep turns, it can no longer safely switch into Heracross because it gets outsped and Seismic Toss is a 4HKO from full 4HKOed by Seismic Toss. Otherwise, Heracross will most likely have to switch out after hitting a healthy Skarmory with a Seismic Toss. Also, Seismic Toss gives Forretress more trouble, especially since it's a Pokemon that usually has no recovery other than Leftovers. However, without Curse, Heracross will not be as potent of an end-game(AH) cleaner.

Team Options
========

Unfortunately, most Pokemon that resist Megahorn like Zapdos and Skarmory are quite common and shut Heracross down quite easily, so getting rid of its common checks is crucial for Heracross it to shine. This means that Heracross really appreciates lures for these Pokemon. Using a Self-Destruct CurseLax with Heracross is a great way to lure in and KO opposing Skarmory. Exeggutor can often cripple and even remove Zapdos with Explosion; it can also use Hidden Power Fire to pressure Skarmory and cripple it with a status move. Tyranitar is a great teammate for being an essential Normal-type switch-in and a Pursuit trapper that can assist in taking down meddling Ghost-types like Gengar; it can even take advantage of Skarmory's fear of Fire Blast to chip it with Pursuit, bringing it closer to the range Seismic Toss Heracross can KO it from. An additional sleep absorber like Sleep Talk Raikou or Sleep Talk Snorlax can pair decently well with Heracross to match up well for its matchup (bit of repetitive prose here) versus both Zapdos and Jynx. In Raikou's case, Heracross can absorb sleep from Nidoking and Snorlax,(AC) while Raikou covers Jynx and Exeggutor. Golem provides Rapid Spin, a Normal-type resistance, and more offensive presence as a spinner, which pairs nicely with Heracross both offensively and defensively. Raikou will check both Zapdos and Skarmory defensively, two of Heracross's worst nemeses, while Heracross checks Nidoking and Machamp, giving the two Pokemon great defensive synergy as well.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Earthquake provides really good coverage on for Pokemon like Gengar, Nidoking, and Raikou, which otherwise might stay in to deal chip damage, but since it does nothing to combat Zapdos and Skarmory, moves like Curse and Seismic Toss are usually better.

Heracross can opt for a set utilizing Curse, Megahorn, Earthquake, and Hidden Power Rock if you want to exchange staying power for offensive pressure. This set works like Curse Machamp but with better special bulk and key resistances; however, compared to Machamp, it has a worse STAB move, and it's still walled by Skarmory.

An Endure + Reversal set is marginally viable, as Reversal can 2HKO Skarmory, but it is difficult to pull off, as its biggest issue is simply that it's difficult to get the opponent to attack and lower Heracross's HP down to 1%. One of Heracross's selling points is its ability to shrug off status via its longevity and Rest, but this variant of Heracross will despise status. Also, if Spikes are in play, it’s only a one-time use, so Rapid Spin support should be is mandatory with this set. Starmie fits the role well here, as it can potentially remove Gengar with Psychic or slow down faster Pokemon with Thunder Wave.

Counter can be used to bait and take out Snorlax and Machamp, and with Curse it can remove Skarmory, but the Curse set is more consistent against Snorlax, and it's probably more effective for other teammates to remove Skarmory to support Heracross's potential end-game(AH) clean sweep; Counter can also potentially be used against Marowak, but this is far less realistic.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Flying-types**: Skarmory and Zapdos are the most reliable Heracross checks. Skarmory is more effective at stopping Curse Heracross, since it always wins the one-on-one matchup, while Zapdos is more effective at stopping Seismic Toss variants because they can't 4HKO it; however, both are very good versus either version. The rarer Reflect Zapdos can shut down Curse variants even more consistently while still doing excellently versus the Seismic Toss variant. Charizard, Moltres, and Dragonite, though far less prominent, are safe switch-ins against Heracross, bar less viable Hidden Power Rock sets. However, Dragonite must have super effective moves like Hidden Power Flying and Fire Blast, or Heracross might (might? or will?) chip it down.

**Ghost-types**: Gengar is immune to Seismic Toss, takes negligible damage from Megahorn, and can threaten Heracross with Explosion, Destiny Bond, Ice Punch freezes, or force it out with Fire Punch; however, it must watch out for Earthquake if it doesn't want to trade, and Curse sets can mitigate the danger of Explosion while somewhat avoiding Destiny Bond mind games. Misdreavus can force Heracross out with the threat of Perish trap or maybe even engage in Destiny Bond mind games, but it only functions as a soft check at most, because since Megahorn still stings and can land a 3HKO with just a little bit of chip damage.

**Other Bug-resistant Pokemon**: Steelix can boost alongside Heracross with Curse and phaze it with Roar or even trade with Explosion, but it does not make for an effective Seismic Toss Heracross counter. Nidoking could potentially turn the tides around with a surprise Flamethrower or Fire Blast, but Heracross can still heal itself by using Rest, and Nidoking almost never has an active form of recovery, so it wants to avoid taking chip damage. Similarly, Heracross also has to watch out for Fire Blast from Muk, which also resists Megahorn and has reasonably decent natural bulk. Machamp can also pack Fire Blast, but it's more uncommon; furthermore, Hidden Power Flying is an option on Machamp to hit both Heracross and Exeggutor with super effective damage. Entei, although a very niche pick, can switch in with ease, set up Sunny Day, and destroy Heracross with its Fire Blast. Heracross can check itself, but you should try to manage its PP well in case you later on decide to engage in a PP war. Seismic Toss Heracross, evidently, will lose in the long run to RestTalk + Curse Heracross.

**Miltank**: Miltank can switch in safely enough and lower Heracross's Attack with Growl as well as drain Curse Curse's PP while healing up with Milk Drink, but it can't really damage Heracross.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[Earthworm, 15210], [FriendOfMrGolem120, 424525]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [, ]]

gp 2/2 once done

 

[Excal]

Implemented everything, thanks so much!
This is now done and ready to upload Earthworm!

 

[Earthworm]

Uploaded.