Heracross

I think one of Scarf Heracrosses main advantages over something else was Sleep Talk + Megahorn + CC + Stone Edge. This way he had variety + Guts boost. Don't really see this changing much.
 
well I'm going to repost my theorymon here
SD Baitcross
Heracross @ Shed Shell
Ability: Overconfidence
Nature: Adamant
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Def
~ Megahorn
~ Stone Edge
~ Close Combat
~ Swords Dance

To be used wtih T-tar to bait shanderaa; set up SD and hit hard. Only common fire types are shanderaa and heatran; bandtar does well vs. both

Very few ghosts in this meta is very good for cross.
 
Shed Shell is scarcely worth an item slot. The selling point of Heracross was the sheer power of its high-powered STAB moves, and sacrificing a Choice Band, status orb or even Leftovers for the sake of evading Shandera doesn't let it do its job well.

Sub + 3 Attack can bait and kill Shandera as well, while Scarf Heracross outspeeds any varient due to superior base speed.
 
I've tested Choice Scarf Overconfidence Heracross, and I have to say, it does very well. All you have to do is bring it in on something it can revenge kill (Preferably something that it can KO with Megahorn/CC) and kill it for an automatic +1. Then, after that, even things that resist CC or Megahorn will take a very hard hit, or even another KO. The only thing is that CC can't hit ghosts, so Shanderaa will be a problem if you're locked into CC.

It's very good at cleaning up late game. :]
 
Princess of Johto said:
I've tested Choice Scarf Overconfidence Heracross, and I have to say, it does very well. All you have to do is bring it in on something it can revenge kill (Preferably something that it can KO with Megahorn/CC) and kill it for an automatic +1. Then, after that, even things that resist CC or Megahorn will take a very hard hit, or even another KO. The only thing is that CC can't hit ghosts, so Shanderaa will be a problem if you're locked into CC.

It's very good at cleaning up late game. :]
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Agreed, I run this on my monobug team (which is pretty good actually) and he makes great late game clean up. If I play him earlier I usually have to go for rockslide as EQ and CC are easy to get around (usually in Shandy and Zapdos) but after an OC boost rockslide does phenom damage.
 
Overconfidence eases predict, specially with big coverage moves (Tbolt/Surf/CC, to a lesser extent). Your opponent isnt likely to let you net that +1 if you have these moves, its just too dangerous.

Of course, you should be aware of Shandera, but you can play over it.
 
LO heracross with tailwind support in rotation battles is amazing. + 1 overconfidence boost that stays while you're rotating out, avoiding damage?
 
Princess of Johto said:
I've tested Choice Scarf Overconfidence Heracross, and I have to say, it does very well. All you have to do is bring it in on something it can revenge kill (Preferably something that it can KO with Megahorn/CC) and kill it for an automatic +1. Then, after that, even things that resist CC or Megahorn will take a very hard hit, or even another KO. The only thing is that CC can't hit ghosts, so Shanderaa will be a problem if you're locked into CC.

It's very good at cleaning up late game. :]
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I agree, an incredible late game sweeper.
 
I've been using a Choice Scarf Heracross in standard OU and it is by far, the most threatening pokemon on my team. Megahorn(when it hits) and Close Combat create so many holes in the opposing team. Nobody is prepared for Heracross, which makes it easy to plow through the opposing team. That being set, I have a few lures on my team, which makes it easy to get rid of the walls that Heracross detests. In the BW metagame, Fighting is a fantastic STAB to have and Heracross can readily abuse it. Also, Bug STAB complements Fighting pretty well. Although, BW's new sleep mechanics really screw around with Heracross, I find that Sleep Talk is still worth the slot with all the sleep running around in this metagame.

Also, Guts is really the ability to abuse. It's incredibly easy to switch into a weak Boil Over or one layer of Toxic Spikes and just start breaking through the opposing team with your STAB moves. Although Sheer Force has its perks late game, it is more situational as you have to have a strong Pursuit user to get rid of all Ghost pokemon before you can attempt to sweep. Also Flying types that resist your STAB need to be dealt with. Obviously, if your team can satisfy these requirements, then Choice Scarf Heracross with Sheer Force is something to be scared of. However, Guts Heracross is not limited to late game, which makes it arguably better.
 
Guts is a must for heracross. I'd actually say his potentially best set is the one that got thrown around in UU a fair amount: LO + Offensive RestTalk. The big boosts, status absorption, and recovery lets you do heavy damage to stall without taking much back. Against offensive teams, you get a sleep absorber, which is nice.

That having been said, I don't really feel heracross is going to be great this generation at all.
 
googlyeyesultra said:
Guts is a must for heracross. I'd actually say his potentially best set is the one that got thrown around in UU a fair amount: LO + Offensive RestTalk. The big boosts, status absorption, and recovery lets you do heavy damage to stall without taking much back. Against offensive teams, you get a sleep absorber, which is nice.

That having been said, I don't really feel heracross is going to be great this generation at all.
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I think he got a light boost. Sure roobo now outclasses him as a guts user but OC scarfcross has a good niche as a revenger that can turn sweeper really easily.
 
Perhaps he could be a Speed recipient from, say, Ninjask? If he got a Sub as well he could run SD for a fast +2 +2 and then sweep with Sheer Force... best of all, it resists its STABs, making Ditto less effective as a counter. You'd need to run a Stone Edge resist, though, or risk losing to the Eccentric copy. Simplest way would probably just be to lure and kill their Ditto first, though.
 
Acritter said:
Perhaps he could be a Speed recipient from, say, Ninjask? If he got a Sub as well he could run SD for a fast +2 +2 and then sweep with Sheer Force... best of all, it resists its STABs, making Ditto less effective as a counter. You'd need to run a Stone Edge resist, though, or risk losing to the Eccentric copy. Simplest way would probably just be to lure and kill their Ditto first, though.
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If you mean the ability (which I assume b/c it's in caps) he doesn't get Sheer Force. Moxie (woot for the new name) is much better for this plan anyway as CC and Megahorn don't get the Encourage/ Sheer Force boost (IDk about megahorn really) Any non BP recipient or nonscarf hera's should deff. run Guts though.
 
I'm just tossing out an idea I thought of, but wouldn't heracross be a great counter to Doryuuzu?

Resistance to Earthquake, neutral damage from X-scissor and Rock Slide. I havent done any calcs, but I'm pretty sure he'd survive a hit from those commonly used moves even from a +2 Sword Dance, then he could hit back with Close Combat.

The only thing is that you probably wouldn't want to use him as a switch in, even if its from an earthquake.

What do you guys think?
 
Yeah, Hera can't switch in. He does pretty decently in revenging it though, but most good players will just switch out to a Gliscor.

Also note that Hera dies 100% of the time to a +2 Return factoring in SR.
 
UnhandledException said:
Yeah, Hera can't switch in. He does pretty decently in revenging it though, but most good players will just switch out to a Gliscor.

Also note that Hera dies 100% of the time to a +2 Return factoring in SR.
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Yeah, thats why I didnt mention it (the return that is, I should have though in after thought)

And you are correct, I was only talking about it in the idea of a revenge killer.



I've seen some Heracross usage in the 5th gen, and he from what I've seen is finding his own unique niche. I saw one take an earthquake from full health from a dory, hit it with a Close Combat and since He had both a jolly nature/Scarf he was able to sweep (I think the opponents name was Dnite or something) the guy's remaning Tyranitar and about 70% health Ononosuko.

It's just Gliscor is predicatable, everyone here should know that something unpredicatable used correctly can be a game changer. And alot of people don't expect Heracross to have, or aren't even aware it has overconfidence as a dreamworld abillity.

I'm not saying it's neccesarily better then Gliscor, but I definately think he's a solid option.
 
What happened to the Flame Orb Guts Set? Heracross isn't the fastest but he is fairly fast with a Jolly nature and what's outrunning him would outrun him anyways (Scarf and Weather pokes) and most Heatran don't run Choice Scarf which get beat by Close Combat.

Heracross-Flame Orb
Jolly Nature
Trait: Guts
6 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd

-Swords Dance
-Megahorn
-Close Combat
-Facade

This beats many of his common counters and resists Mach Punchers. The real bonus of this set is Facade. Thanks to the Burn, Facade has 140 base power and hurts many of it's switchins. The prevalence of weather is annoying (either everything outruns it or it's taking heavy residual damage from burn+weather every turn) but this is still one of the best uses for Heracross in my opinion.

And I don't know how many Gliscor's run speed to outrun Jolly Heracross, with the downslide of Lucario and Heracross and being able to afford Impish. After +2 and Guts (and Stealth Rock), Facade massacres Gliscor with Stealth Rock or other damage as well as Weezing, Gyrados, Dragonite if Multi-Scale isn't up, etc.
 
problems occur with the everpresence of sandstorm. losing 3/16 of yor health a turn means hera dies in 3 (yeah I'm a sophmore in calculus and yet I still can't count for shit; should be 5) turns assuming some small amount of previous damage.
 
Breludicolo said:
problems occur with the everpresence of sandstorm. losing 3/16 of yor health a turn means hera dies in 3 turns assuming some small amount of previous damage.
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Um...if he takes no other damage, that is 5 turns+some other damage. 3 Turns is only slightly more than half lost by residual. No, his problem there is taking any sort of attack then, mainly from Landlos and Doryuzu in Sand as he will outspeed pretty much everything else on most sand teams. Although it is good that he could still take unboosted Earthquakes from Doryuzu and those 3 turns of residual damage and still be alive and kicking. Landlos is the biggest problem there. Other weather pokes as well. Burungeru is a non-issue really since after +2 and Guts, Heracross's Megahorn 2 hit koes.
 
Another interesting thing about dory is that he makes a good counter to breloom and doryuzuu, who are sure to be big threats this gen. Since dory doesn't get any fire type attacks, he'll be forced to use aerial ace if he wants to counter him (which he probably won't due to it's poor coverage). He also outspeeds shanderaa, which is always useful.
 
With it's unique typing and the abundance of Nattorei and Burungeru, I believe MoPCross would actually find some opportunities to switch in and set-up.

Heracross@Salac Berry
Adamant
Moxie / Guts
96 HP / 178 Atk / 236 Spd
Close Combat
Stone-Edge
Substitute
Swords Dance

With enough HP to have its sub not break against a min-Atk / min-SAtk Power Whip and Boil Over / Shadow ball, it can set up Swords Dance behind the sub on Nattorei and Burungeru. Its mediocre speed helps here, because if anything faster, say a choice scarf Shanderra, comes in on a substitute, then Heracross subs up until salac is activated, and now Heracross has 397 Spd with a protection of substitute.
I think Moxie shines in this set, because Substitute allows Heracross to evade status, reducing the chance of a Guts activation. Also, since MoPCross is meant to be (and excels at) a one-time late-game sweeper, any Attack boosts, whether it be from Swords Dance or from Moxie, is welcome. Being able to kill the opponent behind the sub AND get an attack boost is awesome, since there are times where Heracross cannot pull a Swords Dance. Moxie is a well-appreciated addition that aids this particular set, allowing Heracross to keep the offensive momentum.

As long as Acrobat Gliscor is running around, though, Heracross will not be seeing much action. Fling-FlameOrb Facade Heracross (with Guts) is a very interesting choice as well, burning the Gliscor that WILL switch in and just breaking walls in general. However, it has an even worse case of Mixmence's wall-breaking limitations in which, it gets worn down way too quickly and Heracross's wall-breaking capabilities is largely dependent on the player's prediction, as there will always be a monster that can take a Close Combat, Megahorn or a Facade without much hassle.
 
Pocket said:
With it's unique typing and the abundance of Nattorei and Burungeru, I believe MoPCross would actually find some opportunities to switch in and set-up.

Heracross@Salac Berry
Adamant
Moxie / Guts
96 HP / 178 Atk / 236 Spd
Close Combat
Stone-Edge
Substitute
Swords Dance

With enough HP to have its sub not break against a min-Atk / min-SAtk Power Whip and Boil Over / Shadow ball, it can set up Swords Dance behind the sub on Nattorei and Burungeru. Its mediocre speed helps here, because if anything faster, say a choice scarf Shanderra, comes in on a substitute, then Heracross subs up until salac is activated, and now Heracross has 397 Spd with a protection of substitute.
I think Moxie shines in this set, because Substitute allows Heracross to evade status, reducing the chance of a Guts activation. Also, since MoPCross is meant to be (and excels at) a one-time late-game sweeper, any Attack boosts, whether it be from Swords Dance or from Moxie, is welcome. Being able to kill the opponent behind the sub AND get an attack boost is awesome, since there are times where Heracross cannot pull a Swords Dance. Moxie is a well-appreciated addition that aids this particular set, allowing Heracross to keep the offensive momentum.

As long as Acrobat Gliscor is running around, though, Heracross will not be seeing much action. Fling-FlameOrb Facade Heracross (with Guts) is a very interesting choice as well, burning the Gliscor that WILL switch in and just breaking walls in general. However, it has an even worse case of Mixmence's wall-breaking limitations in which, it gets worn down way too quickly and Heracross's wall-breaking capabilities is largely dependent on the player's prediction, as there will always be a monster that can take a Close Combat, Megahorn or a Facade without much hassle.
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Problem is, those that CAN take a Megahorn/Close Combat/Facade are SLOW. Heracross worries more from faster Scarf and weather pokes than from them. After Swords Dance+Guts, Heracross owns Impish Gliscor, Gyrados, Weezing, Zapdos, Salamence, Dragonite, Burungeru...(some require Stealth Rock like Gliscor and Dragonite to ensure) with Facade. You obviously wouldn't be switching Heracross into things like Gliscor and only on things that he threatens (there are quite a number of things he threatens) to get Swords Dance in. It's not walls he is worried about (he's a huge wall smasher) but things faster than 295 spd coming in to smash him on Swords Dance or revenge.

Actually, I wouldn't switch Gliscor in at all on Heracross unless it is Jolly Gliscor.
 
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