Hidden Power Legends IV/nature combinations

[Amazing Ampharos]

I'm going to be short on the text this time. Shoddy Battle correctly demonstrates ingame limitations on possible IV/nature combinations on legendaries and Pokemon with XD or Pokemon Box moves. Here's what's possible for those searching.

Perfect IV possible natures: Modest, Timid, Lax, Naive, Rash, Calm, Careful, Hardy, Docile

Modest Hidden Powers that work by default: Fighting, Ground, Flying, Dark

HP Fire with modest: 31/26/31/30/30/31

HP Water with modest: 31/19/31/30/30/31

HP Electric with modest: 31/11/31/31/30/31

HP Grass with modest: 31/02/31/31/30/31

HP Ice with modest: 27/30/30/31/31/31 OR 31/10/30/31/31/31

HP Poison with modest: 31/03/30/31/30/30

HP Psychic with modest: 31/26/31/30/31/31

HP Bug with modest: 31/19/31/30/31/30

HP Rock with modest: 31/03/30/30/31/30

HP Ghost with modest: 31/31/30/31/31/26 OR 27/31/30/31/31/30 OR 31/15/26/31/31/30

HP Dragon with modest: 31/02/31/31/31/31

HP Steel with modest: 31/03/31/31/31/30

Timid Hidden Powers that work by default: Water, Electric, Grass, Ice, Poison, Ground, Bug, Rock, Dark

HP Fire with timid: 31/18/31/30/30/31

HP Fighting with timid: 31/03/30/30/30/30

HP Flying with timid: 31/03/31/30/30/30

HP Psychic with timid: 31/10/31/30/31/31

HP Ghost with timid: 31/11/30/31/31/30

HP Dragon with timid: 31/02/31/31/31/31

HP Steel with timid: 31/03/31/31/31/30

Mild Hidden Powers that work by default: Fire, Psychic, Bug, Steel

HP Ice with Mild: 31/26/30/31/31/31

I'll probably update later, but this should satisfy most people's needs. Eventually we can make this into a complete database to make sure no one ever has to calculate Hidden Power IVs.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Is that speed in the 4th slot as opposed to the 6th? Sorry to be confused but the wifi community usually puts speed last so I'm not sure.

 

[Syberia]

Does this address Colosseum/XD Birds/Dogs? If I recall correctly, they use an entirely different system of PIDs than the R/S/E/FR/LG/E/D/P pokemon do (and thus show up as hacked with pAC).

If what I just said is entirely incorrect, then never mind.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Speed is 4th as per Shoddy Battle standards, and those Pokemon were assumed to use the same system of PIDs. If it's different, we definitely need information on it.

 

[Syberia]

If they were the same PIDs, then why does pAC read every event/XD/Colosseum pokemon as hacked?

And why did my Serene Grace Togepi become Hustle when I evolved it to a Togekiss? If the PID was interpreted the same way by D/P as it was by XD, would it not have stayed the same?

 

[Raikou]

Speed is 4th as per Shoddy Battle standards, and those Pokemon were assumed to use the same system of PIDs. If it's different, we definitely need information on it.

It is different. It uses one of 4 different seeds at different intervals in the game (for example, the starter eons never have PID's that allow for them to be female) and for every set of IV's there are more possible PID's than in the cart based games.

That's all I know since no one has bothered to reverse engineer the GCN games. Why you'd go through all that trouble just to get accurate numbers for a battle sim is beyond me, it would be easier to restrict legendaries to a slightly lower total IV average.

 

[Syberia]

I was just pointing it out. I think for practicality's sake it's perfectly fine to do it the way you have it laid out already, and ignore those pokemon for the time being.

And since I can't post this in Policy Review, in response to the topic in which it was proposed that XD moves be banned on Shoddy, that would also mean that Raikou/Suicune/Entei would have to be banned as well, given their supposed "impossibility" to obtain a good one. Which obviously is not true, given that there's a GREAT Suicune floating around the Wi-Fi forums currently.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

No one suggested banning XD moves. You obviously misunderstood.

 

[Syberia]

It would seem that I did.

I'm all for the unbanning of things that are not SR-able, though. WishBliss, I'm looking at you. Hell, we don't even know for certain what natures the thing came in. And Surf should only be allowed on Hardy Raichu.

I wonder where the XD birds would fit in all of this, though. They're not SR-able, but they "could" somehow magically end up with the right IV/Nature/Hidden Power combination.

 

[Little Green Yoda]

1) Isn't this the information that X-Act was mentioning when he referred to "dangerous information" that shouldn't be publicly disclosed? Something to the effect of allowing people to know which IVs to hack for to make something look legit?

2) Are you going to list every possible combo or just the ones above a certain IV threshold? I think this mission to make Shoddy an exact replica of the ingame possibilities is getting a bit extreme. It seems like all these limitations are just going to make things needlessly complicated (when ironically enough, the simplification of rules was one of the arguments to unban previously banned Pokemon).

 

[Syberia]

1) Isn't this the information that X-Act was mentioning when he referred to "dangerous information" that shouldn't be publicly disclosed? Something to the effect of allowing people to know which IVs to hack for to make something look legit?

He didn't list the PIDs that correspond to the IVs, so it's pretty harmless.

Besides, if someone hacked a legend with one of these "perfect" Hidden Powers, the thing would be looked over so closely by just about everyone that it'd be really stupid to do it in the first place.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The purpose of listing this was for people who use Shoddy Battle to be able to easily find these IVs to use them. On that note, I don't think this is "too far" at all; it's just faithfully recreating the game. In theory, Shoddy Battle's metagame should be an idealized version of what WiFi's could become one day; allowing illegal Pokemon isn't going to help with that. I don't see how this is really a complicated affair; it's not like the average user has to know a thing about PIDs to be able to tell what Shoddy Battle will and won't let him use.

Also, the idea behind banning the event Pokemon isn't because you can't reset for them; it's because you can't get them at all and we can't even know what is legal or not on them in terms of their stats. You can't reset for Ho-oh either, unless by reset you mean "play the whole game again", and we allow any (legal) Ho-oh you want in ubers.

 

[X-Act]

That info is not entirely correct. Pokemon from DP with perfect 31s can only be 5 of those natures iirc; only Pokemon from ADV can be any of those you listed.

How did you find those natures btw?

 

[carlos1982]

The purpose of listing this was for people who use Shoddy Battle to be able to easily find these IVs to use them. On that note, I don't think this is "too far" at all; it's just faithfully recreating the game. In theory, Shoddy Battle's metagame should be an idealized version of what WiFi's could become one day; allowing illegal Pokemon isn't going to help with that. I don't see how this is really a complicated affair; it's not like the average user has to know a thing about PIDs to be able to tell what Shoddy Battle will and won't let him use.

Also, the idea behind banning the event Pokemon isn't because you can't reset for them; it's because you can't get them at all and we can't even know what is legal or not on them in terms of their stats. You can't reset for Ho-oh either, unless by reset you mean "play the whole game again", and we allow any (legal) Ho-oh you want in ubers.

I thought the US and Japan got the mystic ticket, meaning that Ho oh is resetable.

 

[hinode]

I assume that Synchronize is already factored into these legal combinations when applicable, corrent?

 

[c l e a r]

Ho-oh and Lugia from Naval Rock is resetable, I got mine in TCG Worlds 05 and reseted, got a really, really, nice Lugia with 23/28/28/28/30/31 in Bold.

Japanese Mew from Emerald is SRable.

Japanese Celebi from the JPN Collos is resetable, given that you back from game data from a foreign device and do it over and over again.

XD Birds... should be SRable, IF you do the same method above.

Jirachi as we all know, is SRable in WISHMKR and Pokemon Channel. Just keep starting a new game with a dummy game.

Manaphy is SRable.
All the PBR Events are SRable, but locked in Natures.

 

[cim]

Wait, what? So, what proof do we have (other than AA's word) that this is how Nintendo's random generator works? Maybe I missed a thread, but before we all submit to this "this is impossible in the game" stuff can someone link me to some proof? The source code, perhaps, or even just a detailed and lengthy explanation?

 

[Toothache]

The problem with releasing the source is that hackers can use this to their advantage. Put simply, the reason not all Pokemon generated from the games is possible is because of the PID number, which only can generate (in the case of D/P and the Adv games at least) 16% of the total possible combinations of IVs/nature/etc. Bred pokemon follow a different logic, but for wild Pokemon and legendaries this applies

 

[c l e a r]

yeah, I would like to know fully how to find these PIDs too, it would help to determine what is legal and what isn't myself rather than taking someone else's word for it.

Oh and XD Lugia is resetable, you just have to go through to painful process of not missing one Shadow Pokemon so you can purify them and use it in the chamber to max out the all 10 circles, save, then go through the final door. Catch Lugia, then die purposely to Greevil in the final battle. Get bumped back to wherever, dump Lugia in the chamber, check his nature, IVs, etc.

 

[cim]

So, the danger here is that hackers will make more legit looking Pokémon. If this data was extracted from the game, then what's stopping the hackers from, you know, doing this exact thing themselves? Other than a lot of time, nothing. I don't think any battler should be restricted, but then not know exactly why because of a fear of "hackers using it". It's like being arrested and never being told why and not having trial, well except this is just a game and being arrested is serious business.

Anyway, Smogon shouldn't just be going "GRAAH THIS IS WHAT WE FOUND OUT BUT WE CANT TELL YOU WY TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT GRAAH!". Restricting knowledge never helped anybody.

(also, Clear the problem isn't that some things arent resettable, because given the time, everything is. )

 

[c l e a r]

yeah, so the problem is now Wishbliss or movie Darkrai or the Tickling Blue Dildo?

 

[cim]

No, the problem is that they're claiming the RNG can't pick certain IV and nature combos. They won't show proof though, which makes me wonder why they'd implement this on Shoddy when they're unwilling to talk about how they know this stuff works.

 

[the_artic_one]

So, the danger here is that hackers will make more legit looking Pokémon. If this data was extracted from the game, then what's stopping the hackers from, you know, doing this exact thing themselves? Other than a lot of time, nothing. I don't think any battler should be restricted, but then not know exactly why because of a fear of "hackers using it". It's like being arrested and never being told why and not having trial, well except this is just a game and being arrested is serious business.

Anyway, Smogon shouldn't just be going "GRAAH THIS IS WHAT WE FOUND OUT BUT WE CANT TELL YOU WY TAKE OUR WORD FOR IT GRAAH!". Restricting knowledge never helped anybody.

What's stopping you from extracting the data and looking at it yourself? Oh yeah, you (like many people including hackers) don't know ARM assembly and don't know how a PRNG works.

If they explain it to everyone, any moron on gamefaqs with pokesav can make hacked pokemon that are undetectable. At the moment, only the most diligent of hackers can figure it out and so far, everyone who's managed to accomplish this has been responsible enough to know how dangerous this data would be if they explained it in depth.

Undetectable hacks are a scary thing for any breeder because it would probably be the end of trading as we know it.

 

[c l e a r]

well, as far I'm concerned. Certain games have certain RNG methods as I was once told.

for example in XD, Pokemon there tend to hit extremes "31,30, 0, 1" less often, where as in other games, you do have other chances.

And I thought stuff that are in eggs, are at this point, cannot be determined. (the onces that are breeded from parents passing down their IVs), since that will contradict with the RNG since the breed link overides it.

 

[cim]

You know what's more scary then undetectable hacks? Having a random group of people say "hey there's a restriction here that we're gonig to force you to use, but we can't tell you why it exists or how it work or prove our hypothesis to you because then breeders will feel bad".

If they aren't going to show us proof, they should at least not force it on Shoddy.