Metagame Hidden Type

G-Luke

Edgy Shit
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Some loser appears to say something about this little meta, and that losers name is Squidy822.

It feels unnecessary that such a sort of "choose a 3rd type" meta disallows two entire types, just for lacking a hidden power.

that is all i have to say
When you can redesign the IV system to incorporate Fairy and Normal for GameFreak, then you can have all the right to complain. The meta game is based around Hidden Power, and OMs make it a point to not stray from the point of the meta because of desires. We work with what we got.
 
Alright, some long overdue updates:
kyurem.gif

First off, Kyurem-Black has been banned from Hidden type! With a whopping 680 BST that births 170/120/95 offensive stats, it's own Mold Breaker mirror, and perfect coverage, Kyurem-Black had little to no defensive counter-play between its sets. Offensive counterplay was also somewhat difficult as well, as Kyurem-Black boasts quite impressive 125/100/90 defensive stats coupled with Dragon/Ice/Electric, Dragon/Ice/Ground, or even less common sets like Ghost or Steel that provided a good defensive typing that wasn't easy to detect at team preview. It was overly oppressive on the metagame and therefore is deserving of a ban. Tagging The Immortal to implement.

Next, I have some other Pokemon on my watchlist, and would like to see some discussion on these three Pokemon before making any decisions.
dragonite.gif

First up we have the most obvious choice, Dragonite. Dragonite pretty much only runs Dragon/Flying/Steel, which only has one weakness of Ice typing. Pair this with Multiscale, decent bulk, Dragon Dance, good coverage, Roost, and a high attacking stat of 134, it can only spell trouble. Dragonite is probably the most intimidating Pokemon in this metagame, and frankly the only reason I didn't outright ban it in this post is because I didn't want to ban multiple Pokemon at once without any discussion of it.
shedinja.gif

Another "Why wasn't this Pokemon banned before?" Pokemon. Shedinja sees very little usage, but the potential it has to cover any of its normal weaknesses between Steel Dark and Water (that isn't detectable at team preview) with Dark and Water both adding a new weakness while Steel adds none, as well as being able to block Toxic and Sandstorm damage with Steel typing, it's odd to say the least how Shedinja has escaped being banned or looked into until now.
heatran.gif

Finally is a more controversial choice, but Heatran benefits so largely from an additional typing, with Grass giving Heatran a much better defensive typing that helps with its Water and Ground weaknesses as well as an extra STAB with either Grassium Z+Solar Beam or the less effective Hidden Power Grass, and its Flying typing that gives it a Ground immunity and helps with its fighting weakness, at the cost of now being rocks weak. From what I've seen, defensive counterplay for Heatran tends to consist of well, using Heatran. There are some fringe Dragon types that do well at checking it, but overall Heatran is a very difficult Pokemon to check. It has access to Magma Storm for trapping, strong STABs, good coverage, and access to Taunt and Toxic to wear down defensive threats. Offensively checking it and wearing it down is a much more effective way of dealing with Heatran, but for now it's definitely something to look out for.

I'll be working on some Samples at some point depending on how bans pan out, but feel free to submit any teams you've had fun using!

That's all for right now, Hidden Type is up for OMOTM again next month! Hopefully we'll be able to get this really fun tier a ladder again, and if we do I'll be able to work on updating some resources to help out all kinds of players. Have a good day!
 
Yay Hidden Type :)
(I'll pretend I haven't played 10 games at most and will try to respond :blobuwu: )

I'm not going to address Dragonite at all, as I've never used it, nor do I remember encountering it too often.
Glad that Kyurem-Black was banned, to be honest.

About Heatran, I've used Grassium-Z extensively, even with Bulu support, and it was sort of underperforming. That may, however, depend on my own ability more than its actual prowess. I do agree that his coverage with Grass becomes more than decent (like ITH said, it takes opposing Heatran to wall it), and that his utility (Taunt, Magma Storm, Rocks...) is exceptional. I wouldn't ban it as it is, but it may be warranted if it gets too centralizing.

Concerning Shedinja, I've loved building around it! Honestly, Steel Shedinja did blow my mind as a concept initially. The advantages this typing provides have been perfectly described by our Tier Leader, so I won't go into them. As far as the element of surprise is involved, it definitely plays a role with Shedinja, especially for builders who like to shift from the norm. However, this is also the case for every other Pokemon in this metagame (albeit to a possibly lesser extent).
In my opinion, Hidden Type Shedinja is undoubtedly superior to his regular counterpart, with several typings adding great benefits (even Flying, to avoid Spikes, and Poison, to absorb Toxic Spikes).
Nonetheless, I really don't find it ban-worthy.
This because, while it does warrant initial scouting to understand which is its Hidden Type (again, this is often needed for other threats as well), it can hardly ever capitalize on gained momentum. The fact that it can't cover all of his weaknesses at once means that 1 successful scouting turn is generally sufficient to determine the (viable) Hidden Type. To avoid scouting (and potentially losing Focus Sash), the Shedinja player is encouraged to switch out, a very dangerous affair for Shedinja (whatever its typing, Stealth Rock is deadly). Deciding to stay in can be just as detrimental: Even at +2, its damage output is really underwhelming. Sure, it can cripple physical attackers with Will-O-Wisp, but this is usually predictable.
In my brief experience, it can switch in on several attacks (as long as hazards aren't a factor) and very easily generate momentum, but it has several factors hindering him:
Hazards (Especially Rocks, as I mentioned, but Spikes are often just as deadly). My teams had serious hazard removal game (at least 2 defoggers or 1 defog 1 spinner), and I still managed to lose more often than not, as soon as one of the defoggers got pressured enough;
Mold Breaker (one viable user was banned, but Mega Gyarados remains);
Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs: A theoretical issue, which I luckily never encountered. Still, easy counter-game that would be far more popular, if Shedinja were more centralizing;
Pursuit: Unless Dark, Shedinja must rely on double switching more than it appreciates, if a Pursuit user is seen at Team Preview.
Predictability: Lack of any coverage because of its horrible move-pool means that Shedinja usually relies on its regular move-set. The best variation would be Sucker Punch on Dark Shedinja, but this would automatically hint to the Hidden Type.
Passivity: Even after having set up, its damage output is measly against any non-hyper-offensive threat. It does perform best against HO, spreading burns and revenge killing weakened, frail threats. Against most other MUs, however, it does the former at best, and is deadweight at worst.
Burns: Unless Fire Shedinja, it really hates this condition because its damage output is severely reduced by the halved attack. Also, you're dead...;
Snow: No-one uses it, but it's still more used than Ice Shedinja :blobnom: ;

Honestly, I really did enjoy the few games where Shedinja seemed unbeatable (taking +2 Stone Edge from Lando felt great), but once my opponents understood what was going on, they started carrying at least 1 countermeasure, and it was the end of my winning days. In my experience, while it is undoubtedly better than regular Shedinja, it is hardly ever the defensive wincon it aspires to be, and I find it sufficiently balanced to be kept in the meta.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top