Hitmonlee

Hiyah!

[Overview]​

  • Recklessness boosted Hi Jump Kick. Enough said.
  • I guess I'll say more...VERY frail physically.
  • Cool Speed stat 273 adamant 300 jolly (outpaces neutral 100s)
  • Priority
  • Needs Pursuit badly.
  • Compared to Heracross, 25% more powerful STAB and coverage move, faster, and has priority though lacks Megahorn and bulk. Compared to Medicham it has a less powerful Hi Jump Kick but is faster and can actually soak a couple special attacks, as well as carrying Mach Punch and Sucker Punch.
[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Hi Jump Kick
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Stone Edge / Substitute
item: Life Orb
ability: Reckless
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Obviously hits incredibly hard with 234 Base Power Hi Jump Kick.
  • Double-Edge hits Pokemon that resist Hi Jump Kick for a little harder, 2HKOing many of them (non max/max+ Celebi, Zapdos, etc).
  • Sucker Punch is great for revenge killing or simply defending yourself from a revenge killer like Victini.
  • The last slot is a toss up but Stone Edge is recommended to nail Zapdos for a OHKO. Earthquake is great for hitting Nidoqueen. Mach Punch gives more reliable priority for the likes of Bisharp (who can get scary even though you resist it) and Mamoswine.
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Needs Pursuiter.
  • Needs to have Slowbro and other counters lured and damaged or hit by Toxic.
  • Needs Entry Hazards.
[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Hi Jump Kick
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Earthquake / Mach Punch
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
ability: Reckless
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Band can sweep slower teams but Scarf sweeps quicker ones.
  • Attempts to sweep with its fast Speed and powerful STAB.
  • Double-Edge for powerful coverage.
  • Stone Edge hits Zapdos and Bugs.
  • The last slot is a toss up between Earthquake (for Nidoqueen / King) and Mach Punch (Great sweeping move late game).
  • Scarf is a great sweeper.
  • Band is an amazing wall-breaker, 2HKOes most Celebi, Wobbuffet, and Deoxys-D (though if it isn't max Defense it's probably faster than you).

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Needs Pursuiter.
  • Needs to have Slowbro and others lured and damaged or hit by Toxic.
  • Needs Entry Hazards.

[Other Options]​

  • Bulk Up is ok because of natural special bulkiness, but not going to take many attacks anyway.
  • Reversal is so risky that it's stupid, but can work.
  • Toxic can be used as a desperate attempt to get rid of Slowbro and other bulkier Psychics.
  • Foresight can help you beat a couple uncommon Ghost-types.
  • Rapid Spin can catch the opponent off guard, especially if you're getting walled by something like Max/Max Deoxys-D.
[Checks and Counters]​

  • Bulky Psychics like Wobbuffet, Deoxys-D, Slowbro. Especially Wobbuffet since it checkmates non Substitute Lee or CB Lee locked into Double-Edge.
  • Ghosts like Missy and Rotom.
  • Dusclops is the best counter.
  • Protect > Hi Jump Kick.
[Dream World]



  • Unburden has potential with Hitmonlee, but it means you lose the extra power from Hi Jump Kick and Double-Edge.


 
Needs moar DW Section.

Substitute set should be a real set. Double Edge isn't used much as Stone Edge can hit all of the things that it does along side Sucker Punch, and HJK, so you don't need the fourth move.

Put more emphasis on Wobb countering Hitmonlee, as Sucker Punch will do nothing to him if it keeps Encoring + random non-attacking move spam to drain Sucker Punch's meager 8PP

And the ability is called Reckless, not Recklessness.
 

breh

強いだね
you mention slowbro being such a big counter and to have it toxiced; why not just run toxic to begin with? It's not like that last slot is so crucial to begin with.

Also, mention Foresight. It means that you have the potential to OHKO Mismagius after you've scouted for will-o-wisp. It also forces out Spiritomb as well.

oh and I recall seeing BU ChestoRest on the creative sets thread; I've wondered if it works or not (DW ability though)
 
Needs moar DW Section.

Substitute set should be a real set. Double Edge isn't used much as Stone Edge can hit all of the things that it does along side Sucker Punch, and HJK, so you don't need the fourth move.

Put more emphasis on Wobb countering Hitmonlee, as Sucker Punch will do nothing to him if it keeps Encoring + random non-attacking move spam to drain Sucker Punch's meager 8PP

And the ability is called Reckless, not Recklessness.
Thanks for pointing out the initial derps that come with 5 AM analyses...

However I completely disagree with Double-Edge < Stone Edge. Look at this Calc vs Max/Min Mew and Celebi: (52.62% - 62.09%) and vs max/max: (37.87% - 44.55%).

Double-Edge gives Hitmonlee a chance to KO max/max with entry Hazards (1 Stealth Rock gives a decent chance, one layer of Spikes makes it almost certain, and two layers guarantees).

Also note that offensive Zapdos is OHKOed by Double-Edge and defensive Zapdos is 2HKOed.

The only thing you use Stone Edge for, actually, is Ghost-types. Stone Edge is the best way to hit them. As you pointed out, Substitute also makes a great option to force them to attack you and KO them via Sucker Punch.

In this Metagame Lee isn't great at sweeping they way he was (without a Scarf), he's more about heavy hitting and wall breaking.

you mention slowbro being such a big counter and to have it toxiced; why not just run toxic to begin with? It's not like that last slot is so crucial to begin with.

Also, mention Foresight. It means that you have the potential to OHKO Mismagius after you've scouted for will-o-wisp. It also forces out Spiritomb as well.

oh and I recall seeing BU ChestoRest on the creative sets thread; I've wondered if it works or not (DW ability though)
I'd rather use Substitute + Sucker Punch as a safer method to beat Mismagius, or just predict with Stone Edge...same thing as predicting with Foresight but you don't care what moveset he's using.

I'll mention toxic.
 
Sorry I forgot about the Reckless boost for Double-Edge, but Subsitute still deserves it's own set. It makes sure that you aren't revenge killed easily, and Lee doesn't suffer from 4 moveslot syndrome much, as like you said, all it really needs, especially for a Substitute set, is HJK, Double-Edge, and Sucker Punch.
 

breh

強いだね
I'm going to note here that you NEED a reliable way to get rid of mismagius. if it wants to, it can use substitute and sucker punch will fail. you will be fucked. because it can just attack, sub, attack, sub, etc.; you will run out of sucker punch's meager 8 pp before shadow ball (or sub, for that matter) does the same.

this was pertinent last gen and it still is in this gen.
 
Dream World totally blessed Hitmonlee. Unburden is a great ability and helps its sweeping abilities. BIG mention needed, at least until it is released.
 
I'm going to note here that you NEED a reliable way to get rid of mismagius. if it wants to, it can use substitute and sucker punch will fail. you will be fucked. because it can just attack, sub, attack, sub, etc.; you will run out of sucker punch's meager 8 pp before shadow ball (or sub, for that matter) does the same.

this was pertinent last gen and it still is in this gen.
There is no reliable way to get rid of Mismagius. Depending on the set, Substitute can work (if it doesn't use Substitute) or catching it with Stone Edge can work (regardless of the set, but more risky and you lose Substitute's other benefits).

Dream World totally blessed Hitmonlee. Unburden is a great ability and helps its sweeping abilities. BIG mention needed, at least until it is released.
I don't think it'll be that great since you lose Reckless, but I added it because I forgot to earlier.
 

SJCrew

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I really want to try Lee, but I was always afraid that his striking vulnerability to some of the most common Pokemon in the metagame would make him not worth it. It would be nice if you included some examples as to just how powerful his Hi Jump Kick is to give the reader some incentive to actually use him in a metagame where Heracross steals his lunch money.
 
This isn't supposed to give incentive to use him. This is an analysis not an ad. And don't say I'm just lazy, I've done all the calcs (I even have a bunch of them up right now) and it would be easy to put them in. I don't think it's necessary nor does it make sense.

Again, if other QCers want to chime in and think calcs are necessary and make sense then I'll add them, but until then: http://cherubi.com/tools/calculators/damage/
 

FlareBlitz

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I used CB Hitmonlee. To give you some idea of its power, it ohko'd defensive milotic, 252/0 donphan, espeon, azelf, scarfcross, arcanine (after intimidate) and offensive zapdos after SR.
I don't think we need any calcs in the analysis, but something like "you should use hitmonlee over heracross despite lack of megahorn and bulk because its fighting STAB hits around 25% harder and double-edge is still a pretty good coverage move" would be good.

A nitpick about the counters section: Double-Edge does 2hko 252/220+ Celebi almost all the time (80% chance). Wobby faces a 100% chance of a 2hko (although you will eat massive recoil), assuming 0/252+. Ditto for 252/0 Deo-D. Chances drop to around 50% for Slowbro. If you're going to mention bulky psychics pretty much Cresselia and max/max+ Deo-D are the only ones who can tank both moves, so for the other ones you might want to mention in the relevant section that hitmonlee 2hkos them with Double-Edge. Gligar should also be in the counters section.
 

SJCrew

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Calcs aren't exactly the angle I was working at. A major aspect of Hitmonlee's role in the UU metagame ties in with existence of the Heracross, who fills mostly the same roles and is an overall better Pokemon. If Hitmonlee can get vital 2HKOs Heracross can't with its STAB and Double Edge, it's important for the reader to know, regardless of whether or not they'll end up using it. With the updated overview, however, I concede this is basically preaching to the choir.
 
It learns Rest, so that actually seems like a nice idea.

Foresight also is a good idea, if just for hitting Ghosts and others. Speaking of which, Rapid Spin needs at least an AC mention on LO since like Breludicolo said, its not like that last slot is too important. Even if it is outclassed by Hitmontop in that regard, it can still pull it off with some offensive punch.
 
It learns Rest, so that actually seems like a nice idea.

Foresight also is a good idea, if just for hitting Ghosts and others. Speaking of which, Rapid Spin needs at least an AC mention on LO since like Breludicolo said, its not like that last slot is too important. Even if it is outclassed by Hitmontop in that regard, it can still pull it off with some offensive punch.
Bulk Up Rest is bad. I tried it one battle and I had to convince myself to keep going. It gets 2HKOed through Bulk Up on would-be set up bait like Snorlax and Donphan. Worse yet it is still "not that fast" and can't break through any of its counters. What's the point of a set that loses out on many things and doesn't grant any advantages?

Next off, you guys clearly haven't tested Hitmonlee if you don't think that fourth slot is important. It's very important. It just has so many options because they all do the mostly the same things but to different Pokemon (Stone Edge for Ghosts, Earthquake for Nidoqueen, etc). It's not just a slot you can give up.

Foresight is, as I said before, not worth a slot. It hits Ghosts but almost every common Ghost is hit hard enough by Stone Edge. The only exceptions are Spiritomb, Cofagrigus (w/e that is..) and Dusclops, and Foresight only allows you to take on the former two since Dusclops can still soak your Hi Jump Kicks after it burns you. I'll mention it but I'm not slashing it.

Would you rather beat Spiritomb and Cofag or Mismagius, Froslass, and Rotom?

Rapid Spin...use Hitmontop. I guess ill mention it just to mention it.
 

PK Gaming

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  • The fourth move on the Life Orb set has a disgusting amount of slashes. Pick the best 2 and mention the rest in AC.
  • Mention Dusclops in the counters section, its the best Hitmonlee counter in game.

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 
I'd like to suggest an Unburden set, if I may:


name: DW Unburden
move 1: Hi Jump Kick
move 2: Fake Out / Double-Edge
move 3: Blaze Kick
move 4: Stone Edge / Substitute
item: Normal Gem
ability: Unburden
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe

Unburdened Jolly Hitmonlee has a Speed stat of 500+, outspeeding everything that isn't Sandstorm Excadrill (that I know of). Couple with 372 Attack, it hits harder than Adamant Terrakion and Neutral Scizor, along with outspeeding the both of them easily.
 
The Fake Out/Normal Gem combo with Unburden would work well as a lead, as the set can still carry Sucker Punch/Stone Edge for the common Froslass who will think twice about potentially wasting a turn on a Limber lead.

Another option, though gimmicky, is the Reversal/Pinch Berry tactic. Sure, it's not the most reliable thing in the world, but a +2 STAB Reversal coming off a base 120 Attack is nothing to scoff at. Not to mention Hitmonlee has access to tons of priority attack options to prevent him from being picked off on the revenge kill. A set something like this could work:

name: Boosted Unburden
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Reversal
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Stone Edge / Bulk Up
item: Liechi Berry
ability: Unburden
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 12 HP / 240 Spe

After the Liechi Berry activates, Hitmonlee will reach a staggering Speed stat of 540, only being outrun by +1 base 115's, which are hard to come by if even present in the metagame. Hitmonlee's attack will reach 588, or 744 if coupled with a turn of Bulk Up support, and with a base 200 power STAB at Hitmonlee's disposal, will crush every opposition that doesn't resist Fighting-type (considering the Choice Band Reckless Hitmonlee's Hi Jump Kick is 23% less powerful). Priority in Sucker Punch can take care of any Ghost-type trying to ruin your fun and just about all other priority users. Stone Edge, if prefered in place of Bulk Up, grants fantastic coverage with Fighting-type. Those paranoid enough to run the extra Speed to outrun +1 base 115's can run an optional 252 Attack / 4 Special Defense / 252 Speed with 30 HP Iv's.

The main viablility with this set is in UU, Sandstorm and Hail teams are not as successful as they are in OU since they depend on the weather starter's pre-evolutions to get them going. And if Hitmonlee is setting up on a faster opponent, he will still have a Substitute after activating both the Liechi Berry and Unburden, preventing opponents like Mismagius from stalling down Sucker Punch with WoW, giving Sucker Punch more potential to deal damage. Though Hitmonlee would be far more devistating with Swords Dance, I believe this set functions effectively as a late game sweeper.
 

breh

強いだね
Liechi doesn't exist yet.

Once it and Unburden are released, though, Endreversal sets could very well work.
 
Liechi doesn't exist yet.

Once it and Unburden are released, though, Endreversal sets could very well work.
Just all the priority and existence of Hippopotas and Snowver. None the less, it seems destructive on paper. Again, ignore these comments as Dream World Hitmonlee hasn't been released yet (although, you could mention this in the Dream World section).

Anyways, very nice analysis.
 

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