• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

How to Beat Stall-Discussion

iKitsune

We often have stall teams at the top of our leaderboard. Many of us think stall teams are infallible. I believe this is wrong; stall teams often have some glaring weaknesses that when exposed can lead you to an easy victory. Some pokemon have the capacity to 6-0 even the best made stall teams regardless they will make life alot easier for its teammates. I present to you the Stallbreakers. Notice I have not included many of the pokemon who are famed for beating stall as they are on stall priority list to be countered.

Wallbreakers

dpmfa373.png

MixMence - MixMence should always net you at least one kill a game through its mighty draco meteor

dpmfa248.png

MixTar - This is a rarely seen set and its surpise factor that makes it so effective. Ice beam easily 2HKO Hippowdon and Fire Blast destroys Skarmory as does Stone Edge to Blissey the defensive core of a Stall team is now gone. Time to say GG.

dpmfa230.png

MixDra - This can easily 2HKO everything in stall and will even remove the sandstorm that stall so badly relies on. Though this set can be walled by Celebi so pack a pursuiter.
Choice Users

dpmfa149.png

Choice Band Dragonite - This can 2HKO everything in the game bar steels send it in and wreak havoc.
dpmfa485.png

Specs Heatran - This is easily one of the best special sweepers it can switch in freely on a lot of stall and if it recieves a flash fire boost can 2HKO blissey with Fire Blast. Explosion for cleaning up.

Calm Minders
dpmfa385.png

Jirachi - Jirachi can take on blissey with 101 subs and if Blissey happens to be dead the stall team is going to find it very difficult to beat this.
dpmfa429.png

Mismagius - Mismagius with Hp fighting is stall's worst enemy it can CM up with impunity against blissey and shadow ball will smack much of stall. Probably one of the best Stallbreakers.
380.png

Latias - Although Calm Mind ,Dragon Pulse, Refresh, Recover Latias is often countered by forrey and steel with a bit of magnezone support it can become a very real threat. Refresh will stave off toxic and it should be able to beat blissey and proceed to sweep.

Stat-Up Rest Talkers
dpmfa260.png

CursePert - Celebis usage on stall teams is on the decline. This will easily destroy a stall team when it is the last pokemon and can no longer be phazed by the like of skarmory.
dpmfa248.png

CurseTar - Similar to Cursepert but make sure you remove their bulky ground before exploiting there team with this tyrant.

Trickers

As soon as you sense that a team is stall use trick straight away trick will usually make your life alot easier. Especially if you trick Blissey or a Rest Talker

479-t.png



Right feel free to discuss tactics and set you use when facing stall and comment on my suggestions.
 
stall is easy to beat. just have assloads of things that are walled by the same stuff. things like sdape + ddmence + sdluke or logar+empoleon pretty much break stall on their own. since stall teams attempt to cover everything usually, they tend to overtax pokemon. this means that if you have 3 things that are stopped by the same thing, once you sac one guy to break that one problem mon, you just have a party and run through stall. no need for these draco meteor wallbreakers, cursers, choice users, or any of that crap. you'll have a hard time beating stall with that stuff. for instance, once the opponent knows you have a cursepert, they're just not gonna switch celebi in. that way, in the lategame, they beat you for sure. with all these choice users, you have to resort to dodgy prediction, which can go both ways. same with all these wallbreakers. they are taking so much residual damage that every time they switch in you better kill something or else it's not worth it. end of discussion ladies and gents, thank you for your time.
 
Basically you alredy mentioned the possible ways to beat stall team.
I would just add that the moves taunt and rapid spin are very useful in this task.
Most stall teams rely on entry hazard like toxic spikes and spikes and so a pokemon like Starmie with rapid spin and hydro pump to hit hard the incoming spin blockers can be as decisive as a good wall breaker.
 
Lately, I've been using physical sweepers with an entry hazard immunity (of course, not to Stealth Rocks) as a means to break stall. I find Flygon very effective, especially Life Orb Flygon, when Hippowdon is weakened. Skarmory usually switches-in to soak up Scaf or even Banded Outrages, but it gets hammered by Fire Blast. Celebi usually shys away due to U-turn hitting it for 4x super effective damage, and Blissey and Rotom-h dislike Outrage. Resistance to Stealth Rock is simply a bonus, although Hippowdon really murders this guy. Luckily, however, a lot of Hippowdon run Earthquake as their only attack, allowing Flygon to keep battering it.

Currently, I run Swords Dance Gliscor with a Choice Band Tyranitar. Pursuit is so important because it removes Celebi, and to a lesser extent, Rotom-h. The main reason for this is that Celebi can Perish Song Gliscor while living boosted Stone Edges, and Rotom-h can use Will O Wisp. Other than that, Gliscor dominates things reliant on Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Swords Dance Earthquake destroys everything, and Stone Edge hits Skarmory very hard, 2HKOing some Shed Shell variants with Stealth Rock present. Sand Veil is actually more useful than I'd expect, and with Roost stalling stall teams becomes a possibility.

Tyranitar, especially the Choice Band variant, also deals a lot of damage to everything you see on the traditional stall team. Outrunning Skarmory with a given investment, as well as 2HKOing Hippowdon thanks to Aqua Tail makes him incredibly hard to stop.
 
Ok Stathakis CursePert is a bad example for beating stall. On the otherhand the 3 pokemon you suggested are actually walled by different things on stall teams. So can you not be so flippant because i find it quite offensive.

ie.
Swords Dance Lucario

walled by Gyarados without stone edge
walled by Gliscor without Ice Punch
walled by Celebi and Rotom without crunch

Swords Dance Infernape
Walled by Swampert and Hippowdon
Starmie and Latias

Dragon Dance Mence
cant Dragon Dance against Swampert or Hippowdon
Outrage is tanked by skarmory and with SR and Confusion/LO and sandstrom it is not going to be around for long.
 
My favorite way to beat stall is through gimmicks. Stall teams tend to prepare for a certain set on a certain pokemon not considering other moves. So when they see something that isn't normal they tend to start to over predict and members start falling.

Also Superachi+CBTar is one of the best stall breaking combos I have ever used even though Hippowdon really hurts it. Superachi will attract Celebi in for a Perish song. After Celebi has used Perish Song, send in CBTar and spam Pursuit. Now Celebi HAS to switch out or it dies and late game sweepers win. And if it switches out then the next time Superachi is in, Celebi is in kill range.
 
I neglected to mention CB TTar although it is a good means of breaking stall because it gets 2HKOed by Celebi's Grass Knot. Hippowdon counters it perfectly and Rotom will outspeed and WoW if it tries to pursuit. A good stall team does not care about this at all imo.
 
iKitsune said:
Ok Stathakis CursePert is a bad example for beating stall. On the otherhand the 3 pokemon you suggested are actually walled by different things on stall teams. So can you not be so flippant because i find it quite offensive.

ie.
Swords Dance Lucario

walled by Gyarados without stone edge
walled by Gliscor without Ice Punch
walled by Celebi and Rotom without crunch

Swords Dance Infernape
Walled by Swampert and Hippowdon
Starmie and Latias

Dragon Dance Mence
cant Dragon Dance against Swampert or Hippowdon
Outrage is tanked by skarmory and with SR and Confusion/LO and sandstrom it is not going to be around for long.
Click to expand...
SD Ape is not walled by Swampert and Hippo for the record.

But yeah, basically do what stathakis said, overload your opponent, they aren't going to be keeping all of their mons alive forever, and opening one hole can lead to the downfall of the whole team.
 
Stathakis said:
stall is easy to beat. just have assloads of things that are walled by the same stuff. things like sdape + ddmence + sdluke or logar+empoleon pretty much break stall on their own. since stall teams attempt to cover everything usually, they tend to overtax pokemon. this means that if you have 3 things that are stopped by the same thing, once you sac one guy to break that one problem mon, you just have a party and run through stall. no need for these draco meteor wallbreakers, cursers, choice users, or any of that crap. you'll have a hard time beating stall with that stuff. for instance, once the opponent knows you have a cursepert, they're just not gonna switch celebi in. that way, in the lategame, they beat you for sure. with all these choice users, you have to resort to dodgy prediction, which can go both ways. same with all these wallbreakers. they are taking so much residual damage that every time they switch in you better kill something or else it's not worth it. end of discussion ladies and gents, thank you for your time.
Click to expand...

Ofcourse if you make a team to counter stalls, you'll be successful. But, what if you want the team to be successful in all elements of battle? That is extremely difficult in configuring a team that successful counters all these elements. And yea, not saying that there is something as a perfect team, but a very successful team.
 
I just use Kabutops.

99% min to 420/360 Hippowdon after SD+LO.
89% min to 304/350 Rotom so just use SR.
284 is way too fast for Celebi to hope of outspeeding.
75%~ to Skarmory so 2 SR switch will do.

It's just fun. )
 
Rapid spinners to get rid of the entry hazards that stall teams love to set up, and of course something to deal with the only ghost on their team. The ghostbuster should ideally have Pursuit so pokemon like Tyranitar and Weavile fit the bill nicely.

Aromatherapy/Heal Bell to remove any status that the stall team has already inflicted.

Actually, against non-stall teams that use Stealth Rock and/or status moves, these pokemon can prove annoying to opponents who take their entry hazards and Toxic/WoW/TWave for granted.
 
iKitsune said:
I neglected to mention CB TTar although it is a good means of breaking stall because it gets 2HKOed by Celebi's Grass Knot. Hippowdon counters it perfectly and Rotom will outspeed and WoW if it tries to pursuit. A good stall team does not care about this at all imo.
Click to expand...

Aqua Tail deals 53.81% minimum to the standard 252 HP / 168 Def Hippowdon, a 2HKO 100% of the time. So I don't know what you mean when you say Hippowdon "counters Tyranitar perfectly". Nevertheless, it's a great check, but it can be beaten. Celebi may 2HKO Tyranitar, but Tyranitar can deal up to 80.20% minimum to the standard 252 HP / 220 Def Celebi, and with Stealth Rock and Sandstorm damage the OHKO is almost guaranteed, mind you this is with minimum damage. Rotom still gets slammed by Crunch, burn or not. If it stays in to burn Tyranitar, it takes enough damage that something else on the team can finish it off. Nevermind the fact that Tyranitar can simply switch-out and use this as an opprotunity for Heatran to get a boost.

I'm not saying Tyranitar 6-0s stall teams, that's not true whatsoever, but it does have the ability to kill every single member in 2 hits, and considering how some like Skarm and Blissey do little back to stop it from Stone Edging / Pursuiting.
 
Well, against Stall you have to have a plan. You have to actively think about how you will break stall when team building. Also, limit you Choice users since they won't help you at all unless they have Trick. So here are my suggestions:

My Platinum team had a Stall beating plan that went like this:

Life Orb Heatran was the centerpiece, and it revolved around explosion. A well timed Explosion will open that single whole in a stall team. So if Heatran Exploded on Blissey, Jolteon was my go-to-guy. If he exploded on Vaporeon, then RestTalk DD Gyarados (a great stallbreaker you forgot to mention) would win the game in the late-game. But here are some forgotten wallbreakers:

Breloom: Breloom has only one single nemesis on a Stall team; Reflect Celebi. Other than that, the threat of Spore in conjuction with Leech Seed and Focus Punch is enough to terrorize a stall team once Celebi has been pursuited to death.

Machamp: How the hell can you forget about this guy? Bulk Up Machamp is a fucking TERROR to Stall teams. You Bulk up once... Sleep Talk Rotom is defeated by Payback unless it has W-O-Wisp (some do, some don't). Zapdos doesn't want +1 Stone Edge... Celebi doesn't want +1 Paybacks with confusion. Swampert and Hippo have to lose half their helath on a 50% chance of Roaring you. Skarmory has the same problem.

Tyraniboah: You list CurseTar which is crap against Stall and forget about this guy? pstttttt

Qwilfish / Kabutops: Both of these guys actually shit all up and down stall teams. Qwilfish will absorb T-Spikes, and Swords Dance + Waterfall in the Rain OHKOs Rotom, Zapdos, Blissey, Skarmory after 2 Stealth Rock switches and Swampert about 50% of the time IIRC. +2 Poison Jab easily dismisses Celebi and Vaporeon is actually set-up fodder. Oh yeah, +2 Explosion OHKOs anything you'd like. As for Kabutops, Aeroblacktyl already told you why.

Spikes / Residual Damage: Stall teams hate this just as much as you do!

Infernape / Lucario : Should be obvious
 
Arin said:
Ofcourse if you make a team to counter stalls, you'll be successful. But, what if you want the team to be successful in all elements of battle? That is extremely difficult in configuring a team that successful counters all these elements. And yea, not saying that there is something as a perfect team, but a very successful team.
Click to expand...

This kind of teams are tremendously succesful, not only versus stall, but against every team (except 6 random scarfers or 6 physical walls, which i dont care that much losing to, seeing how you will never see that in important battles i.e tourneys.)

This kind of teams not only scare in matchups of Lucario vs Blissey, in the case of stall, where you would get an easy SD.
Against a more balanced team, you just need to get the necessary momentum while using your long-term thinking. Basically being one step after.

If your opponent uses a scarfer, well, you got an easy SD/DD.

If your opponent brings Skarmory to wall Lucario, i can get an SD while they set-up spikes, and then i kill Skarmory.

The thing is just set-up, sweep the most you can, sac.

Not that easy as it sounds, though.
 
RaikouLover said:
Infernape / Lucario : Should be obvious
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of your post but heartily disagree with this.
Infernape and Lucario are easily countered by stall and stall team make a special effort to do so. As such they are not very effective against stall without removing the various counters
 
Provided Hippowdon has about 60% of his health (which simply means have a physical sweeper chip away at it enough to threaten it, like Mximence), Swords Dance Infernape and Lucario will 6-0 that said Stall Team... period. Infernape is better at it, since it OHKOs Vaporeon, Zapdos, Swampert, Rotom, Blissey, Skarmory, Gliscor, Spiritomb, Tentacruel, Celebi, Gyarados, am I forgetting anything?
 
iKitsune said:
I agree with a lot of your post but heartily disagree with this.
Infernape and Lucario are easily countered by stall and stall team make a special effort to do so. As such they are not very effective against stall without removing the various counters
Click to expand...

You should know that Lucario can OHKO every single thing you can find on a stall team, barring Gliscor (who uses Gliscor in stall??) and Gyarados (who after SR, one CC in the switch-in, and another CC, will die).

Easily, after one SD, Lucario does around 90%~ to max/max Hippowdon, so 2 SR switchins and its dead.
OHKOs Skarmory.
OHKO Celebi after SR and like 5% prior damage.
OHKO Vaporeon
OHKO Rotom
OHKO Blissey
OHKO Swampert

So yeah, Lucario can piss in a Stall team if used correctly.

Maybe Infernape is harder to use and OHKO with, but its pretty much everything as Lucario, just with STAB fire and easier to kill Zapdos.

Edit: Damnit, got beaten.
 
Making your team immune to toxic spikes is a very nice way of going about it. They basically waste 2 turns setting up T Spikes, which can be very useful.
 
I added Gyarados, you seriously need to start reading what people post dude.

You should know that Lucario can OHKO every single thing you can find on a stall team, barring Gliscor (who uses Gliscor in stall??) and Gyarados (who after SR, one CC in the switch-in, and another CC, will probably die).
Click to expand...

I added it...
 
MixMence is really all that's needed to break a stall team... and it makes a good late game sweeper. But MixNite has an easier time breaking SkarmBliss due to Superpower :P

On my team I have two Trick Scarfers, MixMence, and SDLuke, so I don't worry about stall too much.
 
You appear to have missed one of the greatest CM'ers in the game - Clefable.

Immunity to spikes, sandstorm, stealth rock and toxic spikes make Clefable a stall teams worst enemy.
 
chenman333 said:
Making your team immune to toxic spikes is a very nice way of going about it. They basically waste 2 turns setting up T Spikes, which can be very useful.
Click to expand...

I only spend the time to set up t-spikes if I've already seen something that makes t-spikes worth it. If everything I've seen so far is immune to it (or at low health) then I wont spend the time do this.

Rey, Gyarados would be the initial switch in against luke. That means you have to SD on the switch (or, if you opt to cc on the switch, then you have -1 attack while up against it).
+1 (SD and intimidate) does a maximum of 46%.
I've never had gyara lose one on one when switching into a luke lacking stone edge.
 
paramylodon said:
I only spend the time to set up t-spikes if I've already seen something that makes t-spikes worth it. If everything I've seen so far is immune to it (or at low health) then I wont spend the time do this.

Rey, Gyarados would be the initial switch in against luke. That means you have to SD on the switch (or, if you opt to cc on the switch, then you have -1 attack while up against it).
+1 (SD and intimidate) does a maximum of 46%.
I've never had gyara lose one on one when switching into a luke lacking stone edge.
Click to expand...

Then lets take it like this:

I SD while my opponent brings in Gyarados.
I use Extremespeed (10 BP less than CC) and my opponent a) Uses Waterfall and i survive to CC his ass to dead. b) uses Roar.

In both scenarios, Lucario "won" the war.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top