How you would fix and/or balance the metagame for the next generation, and why?

DR. KOEN

what do you all envision as being introduced in the next generation of pokemon games? no new games are announced, but i am curious what you think there will be when they do come along. I hear people talking about new types, but i dont think that is entirely possible with hidden power and all. I do, however, think it would be possible to make a secondary subtype or two that has weaknesses, resistances, moves, and stab, but no HP. People often talk about a "light" type to go hand in hand with dark, but i dont think that is exactly the true artistic nature the designers intended for this game. Opposites / good and evil are more of a western concept that has been introduced to japan. The two types i could envision are a "soul" type and a "synthetic" type of pokemon. Soul pokemon would be a response to the hard to counter nature of some d/p threats and would resist dragon, fire, and earth. These pokemon would be weak to poison and steel (which would balance things out a bit as people would be encouraged to use poison more). Soul would be super effective against dragons and synthetic and resisted by other souls, poisons, and psychics. Synthetic pokemon would be a new form of uncertainty. They would be a response to the "must have" move sets of today. Synthetic would be like normal- it would have two weaknesses however (soul and psychic), one resistance (fighting) and POSSIBLEY one immunity (synthetic ooooo...) They would be super effective against nothing, but have very powerful attacks to compensate (like a synthetic version of hyper beam). There could be a quick attack hyper beam that for all the damage it does to your opponent, that amount of damage is spread across your team as well, or a base 40 synthetic quick attack that heals you for 100% of damage but starts a turn based timer until you are KOed instantly for using it later on.

Pokemonwise there could be a synthetic version of porygon (porygon-0) that splits during the evolution to Z that is a mixed sweeper or extreme HP whore or something else bizarre like that. It could be dark and synthetic (only weak to bug), be really slow, and have bizarre attacks like gyro ball or a 5 turn conversion for the OPPONENT (im still wondering a fair way to do that). There could be a synthetic status ailment that heals synthetics like leftovers or gives a speed boost or something but all other types it does damage like a burn. Soul moves would just be reliabley strong workhorses and stuff.

As to the original types- those two could use abotu 5 extra pokemon in my eyes. One thing i think would be a KILLER addition is a physical sweeper with ghost and fighting stab. It could be a mysterious skinny ghost like thing thats a mix of hitmonlee, jynx, and scizor in looks and just be a straightup physical brawler, a bit frail, above average speed, and base 130 attack. Stab on ghost and fighting is a DANGEROUS combo (shadow claw and brick break, perhaps bullet punch, mach punch, poison jab, or psycho cut or zen headbutt...) It would be a counter for many walls but not pose much threat to sweepers. Snorlax, blissey, cresselia, and dusknoir are countered fairly well. To balance it out it would have no power ups (maybe agility though) and then have protect or detect. That sounds scary and OU (but fair).

Another of these 5 could be a grass / soul pokemon or grass / poison (maybe one is formale one is for female typewise) packing leech seed, rapid spin, and spore. defenses and hp could be average or maybe a tad bit high (anymore is overkill). Giga drain and a moderately powerful special soul move to attack coul make it effective(no psychic or ground moves would be fair on this one). It would be able to tank any incoming dragon, and could stall weezing (barely) It wouldn't be uncounterable though which is the nice part (spore, rapid spin, and leech seed leaves your offense with one other option). I really dont know what it would look like though- maybe it could be an alternate slightly more humanoid version of parasect and be all mushroomy cute with those cue ball white eyes in a totaly "lol im serious bro" kind of way. (sorta like tangrowth but with a bit different offensive movepool, and rapid spin instead of knock off). That would be just plain awesome.

4th would be a synthetic / soul pokemon (i dont know about its pre-evs though, but it needs them). It would have a long white flowing look like gardevoir, but have no head- just 4 masks in a circle that spin to express emotion. It would be similar to jirachi or mesprit in stats. It would have a speed of 105, attack of 90, sp. attack of 90, hp of 75 and defense / special defense of 110. It would be an all out brawler. It would be what froslass would have become if it had the stats and resistances / weaknesses to fight OU worth anything. The idea would be to switch in on a resistance and start pwning hard. It would have nasty plot AND sword's dance, as well as a respectable repertoir of moves on both ends. That's serious business.

i wanted to think of another pokemon but ran out of ideas. I was thinking of making something ground /poison or ground / grass that hides in a clay pot or basket with GIGANTIC long tentacle like arms that come out and your like "lol arms are bigger than jar x 10" or soemthing but couldnt really develop the idea further. Itd prob be a little bit defensive but only really from switching in on resistances and a fair amount of "omg wtf". It could have belly drum and baton pass and power whip / ancient power. Other than that i got no clue.

have any of you ever thought about this stuff?
 
lol its REALLY long so if you want just post your ideas without reading mine at all, i really just want to see what other people want to see - matt
 
Regirock with Solid Rock and Recover:pirate:

Giving some outclassed pokes a chance(Flygon would be cool with Dragon Dance/Nasty Plot,or Spore to Meganium for example)
 
You could improve your thread by making one that states "how you would fix the metagame, ie make it more balance, for the next game". You would still have your original idea intact and I think it'd make an awesome thread (if it doesnt violate the rules that is)
 
ill rename it, you put too much effort into this thread for me to just lock it


for now that is, i don't exactly place much stock in the discussion skills of the masses lately =(
 
I'd add more good never-misses moves (more like aura sphere and less like aerial ace) so that we might not have as much need for evasion clause.
 
I wish GameFreak would just come up with a standard tier system/ruleset that was meant to be a well-balanced game and then let everyone know what it is. They put all this work into rebalancing Pokémon every generation and then don't provide a balanced play environment. Hell, they could potentially do that this gen if they wanted. But their track record on this is just awful, so I won't hold my breath.
 
This isn't really metagame related, but I'd like to see some improved CPU AI. If the opponents ingame would play at least halfway intelligently (the average trainers, not just the Elite 4), then they wouldn't need to have moves like Double Team which only help the CPU win b/c they can get greater % from those moves. It would also be kinda nice to get some intelligence from the CPU so that battling them takes some thought instead of being completely auto-pilot.

In terms of metagaming, I'd say a new type might be good but would be really hard to implement and probably wouldn't help all that much until at least the next generation (we didn't have a lot of really good Steel/Dark pokemon until ADV). I'd like to see some new type combinations, like a Grass/Fire, just to see how they might pan out. Also, since I'm a fan of Eevee, I'd like to see an evolution of Eevee for every type, so that we can make Eevee teams that actually have some options. A Fighting-type physical sweeper (Karateon?) could be interesting.

-JM
 
TheMaskedNitpicker said:
I wish GameFreak would just come up with a standard tier system/ruleset that was meant to be a well-balanced game and then let everyone know what it is. They put all this work into rebalancing Pokémon every generation and then don't provide a balanced play environment. Hell, they could potentially do that this gen if they wanted. But their track record on this is just awful, so I won't hold my breath.
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I agree, if they made a more balanced play environment then there would be much less need to use simulators such as shoddybattle. (although it is questionable whether you would want to continusly battle small children)
 
1.) MORE RAPID SPIN!!!

Seriously, its like gamefreak has the biggest hard-on for the spike moves. And you know who should be first in line to get it?

STEELIX!!! Instant OU right there.

2.) Stop making so many good pokemon that get ruined by Dark/Psychic typing.

Cresselia and the pixies were cool pokemon until physical Pursuit happened.

3.) Give more pokemon healing moves.

Then we wouldn't have to rely on Blissey/Skarmory/Hippo to wall everything and teams might actually start seeing variety

4.) Stop making such borked BST 600

Yeah. Or maybe stop making them altogether.

5.) evolve Farfetch'd

Fight/Flying would be amazing STAB and would be hard to straight up "wall". I think this last one is too much wishful thinking.
 
I think that Game Freak will try to bring more weather into standard play. Maybe a trio with Drought, Drizzle, and Snow Warning. It may be just a bit broken, but maybe Fire/Dragon, Water/Dragon, and Ice/Dragon (All are neutral to ice) could work if they don't give them Azelf or Uxie like stats.
 
xcfrisco said:
1.) MORE RAPID SPIN!!!

Seriously, its like gamefreak has the biggest hard-on for the spike moves. And you know who should be first in line to get it?

STEELIX!!! Instant OU right there.
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I agree with this one, and perhaps make some more moves that get rid of Stealth Rock and stuff. Stealth Rock is just too omnipresent right now.

2.) Stop making so many good pokemon that get ruined by Dark/Psychic typing.

Cresselia and the pixies were cool pokemon until physical Pursuit happened.
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I don't really see your problem here. Cresselia and Azelf are still top-tier OU, and Mesprit and Uxie decent BL Pokemon despite being Pursuit weak. Besides, Cresselia and Uxie can take a SE 40 base power hit (they don't have to switch).
Pursuit is actually a good way of dealing with certain Pokemon. Azelf is indeed one of them, Gengar is another. Their Pursuit weak is one of the things that stops them from being broken.

3.) Give more pokemon healing moves.

Then we wouldn't have to rely on Blissey/Skarmory/Hippo to wall everything and teams might actually start seeing variety
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They did a good job by adding Roost already. I don't think everything should get a 50% healing move.

4.) Stop making such borked BST 600

Yeah. Or maybe stop making them altogether.
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I don't really care about this one, but keep in mind not all 600 BST Pokemon are overpowered.

5.) evolve Farfetch'd

Fight/Flying would be amazing STAB and would be hard to straight up "wall". I think this last one is too much wishful thinking.
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Hell yeah!
 
I don't have anything substantial to add but I wonder how much an Ice-type Stealth Rock would screw up the metagame lol. Seriously though, fewer changes that hurt Fire types and more changes to help them would be my vote.
 
I'd change some final evolutions base stats so they're actually USUABLE. Seriously they did it for the RBY/GSC transition why not the recent gens.
 
Deco said:
They did a good job by adding Roost already. I don't think everything should get a 50% healing move.
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I know you're going a little hyperbolic there on "everything", but the original was a good point: While healing moves are powerful, they're a little too restricted. Consider Empoleon: It may be weak to Ground in addition to Fighting, but it makes sense for it to have Roost and it would certainly help break up Blissey's dominance of the metagame.

I would rather see a few tweaks to existing types' resistances and super-effectiveness than two more types. 17 is already a lot to balance, and even without changing effectiveness there's a lot they could do still with typing, base stat distribution, and movepool; see what Heracross at only base 500 is able to do vs. everyone's favorite terrible gerbil Entei. I'd like particularly a couple more usable fire and grass types. ROCK/STEEL IS NOT A GOOD DEFENSIVE TYPE DAMN IT GAMEFREAK I REALLY WANTED TO USE A BASTIODON.

Also, the most important change they could ever make: Give Honchrow a better speed stat, and make his shiny graphic a nice royal purple.
 
There are too many pokemon to go through to balance specifically, so if Nintendo decided that I was able to rebalance the game I go about it:

1.) Find all the final evolutions that have really bad stats and either give them an evolution to bring their stats up, or just give them better stats.

2.) Remove Double Team, Minimize, Sand Veil, and Bright Powder. Change the effects of the moves like Defog to something not related to resetting evasion (making them a general haze move wouldn't be too bad)

3.) Find Pokemon with good stats but bad move pools and attempt to fix them (Flareon).

4.) Build in Sleep Clause and Freeze Clause into the game.

5.) Find a way to balance the Ubers by bringing down their stats and limiting their move pool slightly. I don't care that the Legendaries are plot devices, it borks competitive play. The community shouldn't be responsible for building tiers, the designers just need to balance the game.

6.) Readjust critical hits to remove hax. Instead of making them do double damage and go through stat ups I would:
i.) Improve the chances of getting criticals to about 70%
ii.) Make crits do normal damage, not double
iii.) Have crits go through stat ups, Protect, Detect, and Subs.
*edit*
iv.) Not all moves can crit. Just the current "high crit chance" moves like Stone Edge. Would probably need to adjust their power and accuracy.

7.) Remove special defense boost from sandstream, or add in boosts to the other weather effects. Atleast reduce the boost to 20%-30%

*edit #2*
8.) Change the range of IVs from something like 25-31 or something similiar. IV breeding is probably one of the worst aspects of the game, so mitigating the effects that IVs have would be ideal. It would also open up in game competitive battling to people that don't feel like wasting hours upon hours IV breeding. But the general idea of IVs isn't lost, there is still random "genetic" variation in the Pokes. Also, because of this how Hidden Power works would have to be adjusted a little. Or just let people have naturally high HP base power thanks to the IV change.
 
DISCLAIMER: The balance of the following ideas is not guaranteed.

-Make the type chart more balanced in general. Poison needs more Super Effectives, as does Steel (and cut a few of the resistances, maybe?). Differentiate Ghost and Dark more. Dragon needs to be resisted by more than Steel and weak to more than Ice and itself. Make it NVE vs. Normal and do nothing to Bug? (Face it, Caterpie being immune to SpecsMence Draco Meteor would be hilarious.) And while we're at it, axe Bug's weakness to Rock. IMO it makes no sense.
-There's the perennial Light type, but that never seems to get off the ground. I'd just like to say that if it does ever come into existance, Grass should be immune to it.
-A physical version of Blissey. Just to make Skarmory, Forretress, Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Donphan cry.
-Since Stealth Rock is so omnipresent and doesn't need to be stacked, what if it disappeared after someone switched into it? That way it's not a "set and forget and rape every rock weak pokemon" move. Spikes and Toxic Spikes require multiple turns and do nothing to certain Pokemon, so they should be fine. That and make Rapid Spin more widespread and/or give other moves Rapid Spin-esque effects.
-Since Poison is more or less the worst status you can get, what if it nerfed Special Attack the same way that Burn cuts Attack? Though the fact that pretty much every Pokemon gets Toxic may be a bit of a problem...
-This is probably going off on a tangent, but imo base Speed stats are getting a bit out of hand. It's probably a result of my noobishness at the time, but I remember thinking in RBY that Starmie was so incredibly fast. But now, base 115 just doesn't seem to cut it in the face of new Pokemon like Weavile and Choice Scarf running around everywhere, which I find a bit strange. Eh, ignore this if it's completely ignorant. =/ This could probably apply to other stats as well, but Speed is the only one that leaves no room for "eh, it's still a #HKO."
-Not really metagame related, but I'd love GameFreak forever if they made the IV/EV system simpler next generation. I actually came up with a way they could redo the system to make IV breeding easier and less time-consuming.
---Any given Pokemon will have a minimum of one perfect IV in a random stat. All other IVs will be random.
---When breeding, IVs will first be randomly generated according to the above rule. The parent IVs will then be compared to the child's IVs. Parent IVs that are greater than the child's IVs will overwrite the lower IVs.
Only negative thing to this I can see would be making Hidden Power breeding somewhat more involved, but simply making the typing truly random and base power a fixed number could solve that. And as far as EVs are concerned, they should axe the 4:1 EV:Stat Point system and make it an even 1:1 ratio. Maybe lower the overall cap if it allows for too many extra stat points.
-Also not metagame related, but I have a few beefs with the TM/HM system. We don't need to have every other TM be a one-shot that requires another playthrough. Stuff like Gym Leader TMs come to mind. Either make them multi-use or provide a means to get each of them as many times as you want. And axe the HMs and useless TMs (I'm looking at you, Captivate. And several others which I'm too lazy to look up--you know who you are.) and make them worthwhile to get. Keep the good HMs, of course (all 2 of them). A widespread (i.e., not RSE Tail Glow) physical and special move for each type at ~90-100 power would go a long way for move diversity imo.

EDIT: Can't believe I forgot about this. ENOUGH WITH THE TRADE EVOLUTIONS AND VERSION EXCLUSIVES! Not all of us have wifi or a friend who also plays Pokemon. I was lucky enough to have a brother with his own DS and I have both Diamond and Pearl, so I could do some shenanigans to get Gengar, Alakazam, Machamp, and Spiritomb, but I'm probably a unique case. And I agree with the above poster in regards to evolving all still-crappy Pokemon (or adjusting base stats if they're already a stage 3 evo).
 
Lord Alchemy said:
There are too many pokemon to go through to balance specifically, so if Nintendo decided that I was able to rebalance the game I go about it:


6.) Readjust critical hits to remove hax. Instead of making them do double damage and go through stat ups I would:
i.) Improve the chances of getting criticals to about 70%
ii.) Make crits do normal damage, not double
iii.) Have crits go through stat ups, Protect, Detect, and Subs.

7.) Remove special defense boost from sandstream, or add in boosts to the other weather effects. Atleast reduce the boost to 20%-30%

Thats all I got off the top of my head.
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I really dislike that SP.def boost sandstorm thing as well. I disagree with the critical hit thing since it would make subs useless and they are an essential part to some strategies. (especially at 70% chance of hitting through it)

I mean it would basically ruin BP chains since the sub would be innefective 70% of the time.

If using your method of making them go through subs etc.. I would make make the chance very low.

Also Ninjask would suck since neither protect, nor sub would work 70% of the time.
 
Kira said:
I really dislike that SP.def boost sandstorm thing as well. I disagree with the critical hit thing since it would make subs useless and they are an essential part to some strategies. (especially at 70% chance of hitting through it)

I mean it would basically ruin BP chains since the sub would be innefective 70% of the time.

If using your method of making them go through subs etc.. I would make make the chance very low.

Also Ninjask would suck since neither protect, nor sub would work 70% of the time.
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Well, I guess I didn't state it correctly. Not every move would be allowed to crit. Just the current "High Crit Chance" moves like Stone Edge.
 
Oh in that case it seems fine. I thought you meant every move.

Although what about Super Luck absol. It would spell doom to many bp teams.
 
I think SR should be nerfed a lot... 1/2 damage is too good. I think that 4x weak should be 1/4, 2x weak should be 1/8, normal should be 1/16, and nothing resists it. (ie, minimum of 1/16 on everyone). Either that, or make it like Spikes that hits flying/levitators harder, but hits non flyers weaker.

Also, stop with the evolution things. Poor Magmar got seriously uglified. Couldn't they just up the stats of some pokemon?! Especially all those poor mediocre Hoenn pokemon; sharpedo, bannette, crawdaunt, shiftry, chimecho, tropius
 
I'd like it if eternal weather abilites ended when Tyranitar etc switched out, or at least within 5 turns of Tyranitar etc switching out. Endless weather is a bit illogical and incredibly annoying for both players (unless their team is designed around it, in which case...they're boring).

And more Eeveelutions, just because I adore them. :heart:
 
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