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Hydreigon

Actually, Sazandora has higher attack than Flygon. Kind of sad, but true. A scarfed Pokemon also functions well as a late-game cleaner when everything is weakened and can be OHKOed by a medium-strength attack (usually Dragon Pulse, in Sazandora's case).
 
Wanderer said:
Actually, Sazandora has higher attack than Flygon. Kind of sad, but true. A scarfed Pokemon also functions well as a late-game cleaner when everything is weakened and can be OHKOed by a medium-strength attack (usually Dragon Pulse, in Sazandora's case).
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For shame... So could you run a physical revenge killer for Sazandora?
 
I've actually been running a physical LO sazandora with crunch/eq/stonedge/fireblast and as long as it can hit super effectively, it's amazing. It's a bit weak, but the surprise value almost makes up for it. It's hilarious when people switch in ditto and then realize I'm not carrying any dragon moves. lol

I've been repeatedly called a n00b for using it though. Mostly by people get swept by it. :)
 
Intersesting. So a physical revenge killer could go like this:

Sazandora @choice scarf
Adamant/jolly
252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
-outrage
-Eartquake
-U-turn
-Stone edge/Fire blast/crunch/dragon tail

Wow Flygon, You are now officially outclassed. unfortunatley, Sazandora is my team's main sweeper, so I still have to use Flygon...
 
Granstafer said:
Intersesting. So a physical revenge killer could go like this:

Sazandora @choice scarf
Adamant/jolly
252 atk/252 spe/4 hp
-outrage
-Eartquake
-U-turn
-Stone edge/Fire blast/crunch/dragon tail

Wow Flygon, You are now officially outclassed. unfortunatley, Sazandora is my team's main sweeper, so I still have to use Flygon...
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Your not serious?The only Dragon that outclasses Flygon at being a choice scarf is Garchomp or Latias and both are arguable.

Flygon resists every entry hazard,has the magic speed,and hits harder with Eartquake..Choice Scarf Flygon really can't be outclassed by many things..
 
Choice Scarf Flygon is outclassed by anything with some form of offense, speed, and Uturn. Things only really got moving for him once all of the better Dragons were banned, but now that they're back with a vengeance, he's a zero again.

And about those novelty perks: resisting all entry hazards came with the price of being almost consummately dead weight against the types of teams that really abused them (stall). The "magic number" was really only for checking DDMence and tying with him as well as being weak to one of his moves meant you really weren't a good check at all.
 
Flygon has STAB Earthquake, which is significantly more powerful than Sazandora's. It's also immune to Electric (and by extension Thunder Wave) and Sandstorm, while resisting Stealth Rock. That's 12.5% when Sazandora switches in that Flygon doesn't take, and Flygon of course is immune to Volt Change (those pesky Jolteon/Zapdos cannot get a free scout) and Thunder Wave (paralysis won't be slowing him down often). Yeah, Sazandora has a greater attack stat, but they function differently. Sazandora appreciates U-turn for special walls, while Flygon scouts for stuff like Gyarados, Skarmory, etc. Basically, without STAB Earthquake, running max attack on Sazandora is laughable. Outrage is not a reliable STAB in the slightest.
 
They function differently, but Flygon is still not as as good a Choice Scarfer, or even Pokemon as Sazandora. Sazandora still checks most sweepers and has much higher offensive power. He loses out on Mence and maybe the occasional Scarf Jirachi, but like I've said before, trying to beat Mence on a Speed tie is a terrible idea and always was.

Outrage is not a reliable STAB in the slightest.
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Yeah, but Crunch is. And don't bust out the TTar comparison, since we know Sazandora is faster, has Uturn, and STAB Outrage to work with. He can even feasibly run a mixed Scarf set with Fire Blast if he wants to, having base 125 Sp. Att and all. Even with a hindering nature and no investment, he still 2HKOs Sp. Def Skarmory with Fire Blast. >_>
 
SJCrew said:
They function differently, but Flygon is still not as as good a Choice Scarfer, or even Pokemon as Sazandora. Sazandora still checks most sweepers and has much higher offensive power. He loses out on Mence and maybe the occasional Scarf Jirachi, but like I've said before, trying to beat Mence on a Speed tie is a terrible idea and always was.


Yeah, but Crunch is. And don't bust out the TTar comparison, since we know Sazandora is faster, has Uturn, and STAB Outrage to work with. He can even feasibly run a mixed Scarf set with Fire Blast if he wants to, having base 125 Sp. Att and all. Even with a hindering nature and no investment, he still 2HKOs Sp. Def Skarmory with Fire Blast. >_>
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It's not a good idea to try to revenge kill Salamence with Flygon... but it's still an option. An option you simply don't have when you're packing Sazandora over Flygon. I'll take 50/50 over 100/0 any day.

I wasn't going to compare Tyranitar and Sazandora, but since you brought it up... Sazandora's Crunch pales in comparison to Tyranitar's, and while Stone Edge is crappy, it's better than forcing yourself to choose: weak STAB vs. powerful STAB that locks me in. Crunch is a shitty STAB move for something with such a weak offensive stat, it really is. I don't care what you compare it to, Tyranitar, Sharpedo, whatever. Crunch is good in OU for two things and two things only: coverage move and STAB for Tyranitar and Waruvial/bulky Pokemon.

Granstafer said:
Outrage is not a reliable STAB?... then why does Flygon use it?
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No, it's not a reliable STAB at all. You seem to fail how Flygon works. You U-turn, U-turn, U-turn, scouting your opponent's team. When you need to, Flygon can come in and revenge kill with STAB Earthquake/Outrage and Stone Edge. Outrage should not be thrown around, it must be used carefully. One you've scouted and once its counters are weakened/gone, then you can go for Outrage. Since the main point of a U-turn Pokemon is to... abuse U-turn, you'll notice Sazandora's susceptibility to residual damage more than Flygon's.

Seriously, go out there and test it for yourself, Sazandora is better off running a special based set with Draco Meteor / U-turn / Surf / Fire Blast and Flygon is the best to abuse the physical counterpart. They are different.
 
Sazando's biggest advantage over flygon as a choice scarfer is 125 spatk and a hard-hitting special movepool. Comparing physical strength is really pointless.
 
@Nubbins: That's true, but Flygon's ability to U-turn out while being almost immune to entry hazards means that it makes a much better U-turner than Sazandora, like blasphemy1 said.
 
Flygons biggest advantages over Sazandora are 2 more base Speed, a resistance to Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave thats it.
the better Speed is propably the biggest Advantage giving him a chance to speed tie with DD Mence and Scarf Jirachi (though if you want to revenge kill them you better use Garchomp since he don't needs to rely on a 50-50 chance to do that). Flygons typing gives him only 2 Weaknesses one being Dragon and one a 4x Weakness to Ice wich means he is hit SE by one (not that common atm) Priority attack and even for 4x damage.

Sazandora on the other side has superior defenses (not that much , but he can take a weaker SE attack), MUCH better SpA and slightly better Atk, Sazandoras and Flygons movepool are pretty similar with Surf being Sazandoras biggest advantage (flygon gets T-Punch for Gyarados though). Sazandora has quite some weaknesses namely Ice, Dragon, Fighting and Bug (two of them being priority attacks and one gets extremely common), but on the other side he resists quite a lot things and doesn't minds being burned as much as Flygon does (atleast for the usual Specs and Scarf sets).

What makes Sazandora IMO much more dangerous compared to Flygon is Sazas unpredictability. When you see Flygon you usually know he will spam U-Turn or maybe EQ so a switch to a flying type/Rotom-A was usually safe sure you sometimes saw one firing off a weak Fire Blast or Draco Meteor this could be quite a surprise, but the damage done wasn't that terrible and bulky Waters could usually shrug off everything he could use.
Sazandora however has lots of viable options and you can't just switch in a bulky water that takes heavy damage from a Specs Draco Meteor, Blissey better shouldn't come in a LO boosted Outrage from a mixed set and there is no safe switch in as many Pokemon will take a lot of damage from Sazandoras attacks possibly getting OHKOed if you predict wrong. Sazandora is threatening all the time Flygon was only threatening when lots of his counters where removed and really name me one thing that counters Sazandora where Flygon stands a chance against. Sure Sazandoras main Job isn't U-Turn spamming like it was the case with Flygon, but thats because he can do much more than just this.

Flygon still got a niche, but with Garchomp back in the game and Sazandora being introduced, his niche gets smaller and smaller and often other Pokemon will be a superior choice for a Team Slot.

SJCrew was right when he said that Flygon only shined at the end of Gen 4 because all the other big guys were sent to vacation, but they are back now and i don't see Flygon making the OU cut this time.
 
I think SJcrew explained why checking DDmence with flygon isn't very good, and I know people who don't care about poke's taking 25% from Sr, and you are worried about sazandora, who is nuetral to SR, taking damage from it. "checking" scarf jirachi is the same deal with ddmence. And 2 more speed, really? the only pokemon with 99 base speed is genesect, so that barely matters at all.

I've tested flygon with sazandora, and works just fine. Let me remind you of the dragons he checks:
-sazandora
-sd ononokusu
-dd onokusu (one dd)
-dragonite
- non-scarfed garchomp

notice how mence is not on that list. why? 50% chance of checking a ddmence is unreliable.

I never saw flygon get sent to BL or UU when chomp or mence was around, so why should he go back now?

Sazandora could be the new scarfgon. we don't know now, and we will know soon enough.

My prediction: Scarf for sazandora, similar to flygon, and flygon stays where he is.
 
Im agreeing with Sj and burning man here...Flygon has some great utlity but it only shone because all the other dragons were banned really.Its going to be really hard to justify flygon in most teams with all the old dragons back alongside the new ones.
 
My favorite moveset for Sazandorah:

Sazandorah (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Surf
 
Dark Froslass said:
Sazandora makes a fine mixed attacker with Draco Meteor/Dark Pulse/Flamethrower/Outrage, and yes, I tested this set.
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Evs and Nature would be nice^^
I guess its 252 SpA/252 Spe and Naive, but maybe you got a more specific spread that is able to get some specific KOs with Outrage so more information would be nice.

I honestly don't see the point of Dark Pulse over Earth Power or Surf since the only Ghost/Psychic that won't be 2HKOed by Draco Meteor is Burungeru and Rankurusu and both would be hit harder by Crunch and you lose out on heatran for coverage (not to mention Surfs much better overall coverage).
 
I'm not sure about mixed sets honestly. I just don't see them as effective, but the choice and LO sets seem the way to go, especially when it has a good special move pool and U-turn in its arsenal.
 
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