I just wanna make u sweat (sun stall)

[Kingofgauls]

TEAM PREVIEW

INTRO
Hello everybody! I've always been kind of a stall oriented player. Weather seems to
dominate the metagame these days and there are many successful stall team styles
that exploit it: of course sand stall and rain stall are the most popular ones, but
even hail stall has some tricks available (read Stallrein). So I asked myself: what
about sun? Even the guide to sun playstyles states that sun stall isn't very viable
in OU, that it features Pokemon with very poor defensive typing, and furthermore,
while Tyranitar and Politoed can be really useful to the team, Ninetales, apart for
some tricks, puts you substantially one Pokemon down. Well, despite all this I
nonetheless tried to build a sun stall team. Sun stall probably isn't the most easy
of teamstyles to use but if played correctly it can cause many headaches and even
catch some opponent by surprise. I hope you guys can help me to spot what's wrong
with it and solve some doubts I had with some members of the team.
Also, if anybody can find a place in my team for a good Heatran check and a RELIABLE
Phazer please let me know.

THE TEAM​

THE WEATHER STARTER

Ninetales (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Flamethrower
- Roar

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Quite obvious member selection for a sun team. Without Drought Ninetales this team
wouldn't even exist. This is a set I find to be quite unexpected but nonetheless
useful to the team. I almost always start with her even when I see in team preview
my opponent has Politoed or Tyranitar. Since she is almost always faster than the
other weather starters and nobody seems to expect her to stay in I usually stay,
Substitute on the first turn while usually the opponent's Tyranitar sets Stealth
rocks or Politoed tries to cripple who comes on the predicted switch with Toxic or
Hypnosis (which are blocked by the Sub). If they just attack I simply lose the Sub
but then I'm eased in the choice of whom to switch in, but if they let the Sub live
I can then Toxic them while they attack and then run to someone who resists the move
they use to damage Ninetales. Flamethrower is my main way of dealing damage and I
prefer it to Fire Blast both for PP and for accuracy, since Ninetales is not
supposed to sweep but just to weaken or finish off opponents. I put Roar on
Ninetales first because I don't have another Phazer (I wish I had), and then because
often opponents think of Ninetales as set up bait and never expect to be Roared
away. I chose 252 HP EVs an Lefties for maximum survivability.

THE SPECIAL SPONGE

Blissey (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Protect

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My second team member is good old new standard Eviolite Chansey. She makes sure powerful Hydro
Pumps never hit my fire mons, provides useful stealth rocks and most of all keeps my
team always at full health providing Wishes that almost always fully heal the other
team members. Once Flamethrower was her way of dealing damage, but usually she is
one of my main answers to Heatran which is immune to it and so I opted for Seismic
Toss (not to mention her ridiculous s. attack). Protect is useful when I want to use Wish on Chansey herself but also helps me
with prediction and if the opponent is poisoned to rack up damage. Thanks to her
incredible ability I can even send her when I predict an incoming status move. She's
really almost always a full stop to every specially oriented threat a rain team
could pose.

THE PHYSICAL WALL

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

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If Blissey stops rain team's special attackers, Gliscor is the answer to the
physical threats of sand teams (and to hysical threats in general). He really walls
an incredible amount of things and toxi-stall them out. He's my main answer to
Landorus, Tyranitar, Terrakion and many others. Sometimes it can even take an
Outrage from some dragon. Furthermore in sun his water weakness is removed so taking
physical water attacks (for example Waterfall from Gyarados) isn't much of a
problem. Protect is useful to let Poison Heal work but also to scout Ice Beam on
Tyranitar or HP ice on Landorus which otherwise can't hurt me so much. I chose Ice
Fang because as I said he can even take an Outrage and strike back the flying
dragons with 4x weakness, and is also useful on other Gliscors. Toxic really is a
key because for some threats I rely on passive damage and having Toxic on Ninetales
and him lets me drop T-spikes on Forretress and free a slot.

THE SPINNING AND SPIKING TANK

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Spikes
- Gyro Ball

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Since Ninetales is fundamental for the team, she's weak to stealth rock and she's
going to switch in and out a lot, I clearly need a spinner. Better if he can set
Entry Hazards. Even better if he can resist powerful dragon attacks. So here comes
Forretress, which does all this things and maybe even more. This choice may seem odd
when he's really weak to fire, but even without sun he wouldn't be able to take a
hit, and I always have Chandelure to absorb incoming blows. I chose the specially
defensive split to be able to take Draco Meteors without problems, but also to be
able to come in for example on Politoed and Spike. Rapid spin is a must on the set.
Volt Switch is the way out when a Magnezone thinks he can Substitute and kill you
with ease, and unexpectedly is really capable of dealing serious damage against
Pokemon weak to it (I tried it on Gyarados and Skarmory with great results). It's
also a good way to switch in a Pokemon who would otherwise not be able to survive
the incoming attack. I chose Gyro Ball to hurt speed boosting sweepers which can be
annoying to my team. Sturdy becomes even more useful when Blissey can fully
replenish his health with only one wish.

THE SPIN BLOCKER

Chandelure (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

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Even if not many people carry a spinner these days I felt like I needed a
spinblocker. So here's Chandelure. His typing make him immune to Fighting attacks
aimed at Blissey, and if the opponent wants to advantage himself using MY sun to
fire a powerful fire attack (sorry for the pun), Chandelure's ability is there to
make sure it doesn't happen. I once used the Choice scarf set but then the inability
to switch between attacks was very hindering, and so I switched to this set and I've
never regretted. The list of Pokemon he scares out is very long so it's easy to set
up a Sub while they switch to a counter expecting the choice set, just to have to
take his very powerful STABs. HP Fighting earns the last moveslot because Heatran is
a very common switch in to him, and usually if I have the Sub up I can 2HKO him. HP
Fighting is also useful if the opponents tries to switch in Tyranitar.

THE EMERGENCY CHECK

Venusaur (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

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Finally the revenge killer, the emergency check and the finishre of the team. He's
the last addiction to the team so I'm not still really sure about the set to use. I
tried mixed set not to be completely walled by Heatran or Dragons, then SubSeeder,
then Specially based Saur but every time I change it some new Pokemon immune to the
set appears, so for now I'll stick with this one. The power and speed of Venusaur
under the sun is really incredible. He's my main revenge killer to many speedy but
frail threats in early-mid game, while in late game he becomes the one who finish
off the opponent's team. I was also quite unsure on the item but with Life Orb I
tended to die too quickly, I felt like I didn't really need Leftovers or Black
Sludge's recovery too much and then I went with Wide Lens. Since when I don't really
know how to stop a threat I go straight to Sleep Powder, the last thing I need is a
miss from it, so the raise in accuracy is quite appreciated. If I can eliminate the
main walls to Saur (Heatran or some Dragon), I can put to sleep a Pokemon, Stat up
with Growth and then swep undisturbed. I also noticed that even his main counters,
if they're weakened by entry hazards, and they sleep for 2 turns letting me use
Growth twice, are killed by Solarbeam.

POSSIBLE REPLACEMENTS

Hide

(Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Wish
- Protect
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar

She once occupied Blissey's place. She could Phaze opponents and had Wish as well
but I really needed Stealth Rock, she couln't absorb Shadow balls aimed at
Chandelure and couldn't really touch Heatran. However if you think she's beter
please let me know.

(Jellicent) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Will-o-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt

She was replaced by Chandelure. She could absorb Water hits, cripple physical
threats with a burn, had reliable recovery by her own and Taunt as an added bonus.
But again she was bompletely walled by Heatran, which, as you probably guessed is
the biggest pain in the ass for this team.

 

[Razza]

Run Chansey>blissey, as lefties aren't ao important with no sandstorm to worry about in theory

Run earthquake on Forretress over voltswitch for heatran switchins, also gives you a good chance of beating Tentacruel in the sun.

Run a Venusaur with earthquake for heatran and hidden power ice for dragons, or replace Venusaur with a Sawsbuck, as nature power ohkos heatran and double edge Koes Dragonite after rocks.

Also you might want to run toxic spikes on Forretress as tyranitar can switch in too easily IMO on your team and threaten them, fire blast for Forretress pursuit for Chandelure, ice beam for Gliscor, crunch for Ninetales and blissey.

 

[Kingofgauls]

Thanks for the rate.
Eviolite Chansey over Blissey in sun makes perfectly sense so I'm going to try it out.
About Earthquake on Forry, I'm a bit reluctant to drop Volt Switch because I find it very helpful in letting me switch to for example Ninetales without needing her to take damage. Also I've met a great amount of Magnezones, and against them Volt Switch is the only way to survive. Anyway I'll test it out as well along with T-spikes over Spikes, even if I never found TTar so much difficult to handle (maybe it's just that I haven't met yet a TTar with all those moves togheter and using careful switching and Protect I've managed to find whom it cannot damage.....).
I'm also reluctant to replace Venusaur with Sawsbuck because in my opinion it has not Saur's bulk, can't be sent in on a predicted Toxic or to absorb T-spikes and lacks Sleep Powder. So what would you drop to fit in Earthquake and HP Ice?

Also I noticed I badly need a reliable Phazer (Nine doesn't count) to counter stat up boosters which can be very dangerous if I don't manage to poison them. If anybody could find place for a phazer on my team please let me know.

 

[Lady Alex]

Hi! I agree with chansey over blissey. Since you're primarily going to have the sun up, chansey will offer you much more survivability. If you wanted to keep your venusaur set the way it is, you could consider using air balloon on chandelure instead of leftovers. It would prevent any heatran that lacks hp ice or dragon pulse from hitting you at all, and you would 2hko (after rocks) any of the offensive variants that do carry one of those moves with hp fighting as long as you came in with your balloon in tact.

 

[cosmicfinch]

For my money the best Phazer in the game is Sableye with prankster. Priority taunt willow-wisp and recover makes him really hard to kill, than you can toss whatever move you want in the set. Max his hp and split the defense.
As for a heatran check, Gliscor walls all non hp ice variants, if he is giving you that much grief try making his speed 278, so you outrun all unscarfed trans and still keep some bulk.
Chansey and Blissey also wall Heatran so I don't see him being too much of an issue if you give Gliscor some speed and time your switch ins accordingly.
I don't like forretress on this team, mostly because I don't see you beating rain stall or rain offense pretty much ever. I'd suggest a boltbeam rapid spin starmie as it can really dent rain teams, scare the crap out Heatran and gives you some power and speed. Or tentacruel to spin and lay toxic spikes which can destroy a lot of teams, and most rain teams really cant dent him. Plus again a better check for Heatran.
Which allows you to take hidden power fighting off of chandelure and add energy ball or solar beam or calm mind which are all better options for him.
Good luck with your team! Sunstall is not an easy task!

 

[dice]

Sableye can't phaze..

 

[Lazyboy]

Hey Kingofgauls, nice team. Just a couple of things I would change.

For starters, as a few people have suggested, Chansey would perform its role better than Blissey, especially as you aren't taking advantage of Blissey's higher special attack, which is one of her main strengths over Chansey. Secondly, I would replace Stealth Rock with Protect on Chansey. This allows you to scout for trick users but primarily it allows you to guarantee Chansey can heal itself safely, because without leftovers Chansey can be worn down with repeated attacks and Protect allows her to maintain high HP better.

This now means you need a Stealth Rock user. Luckily, you're already using Forretress so it's a pretty easy fix. Although this leaves Forretress with a case of 4 moveslot syndrome when it comes to it's attacks, I think Gyro Ball would be it's best choice. Whilst you don't get to maul Heatran switch ins or maintain momentum with Volt Switch, it does act as a decent check to Landorus, who can currently to massive damage to any member of your team bar Forretress. It also helps out against the rare Gengar, who currently cant be touched by Blissey and can severely damage most of your team bar Forretress, unless it carries HP fire (meaning it doesn't have pain split, which leads to a rather odd stalemate).

Also, I would really consider changing your Ninetales set. Whilst it will catch the odd Politoed/Tyranitar off guard, Stealth Rock damage, Substitute and the possibility of Sandstorm damage can rack up quickly, meaning you will have trouble winning the weather war. Sunny day Ninetales is the most effective set at maintaining weather control, as it can put Politoed/Tyranitar into a tough position if they think they can switch in safely. Either switch out and subject themselves to more entry hazard damage or stay in and eat a SolarBeam, taking off a massive chunk of their health, if not straight out KO'ing them. You can still use Flamethrower as a consistent STAB move (Fire Blast misses suck) and in the last slot you can either run roar or Will-o-wisp. Roar can force more entry hazard damage and can prevent you being setup fodder for Dragonite/Volcarona. However Will-o-wisp will allow you to cripple Tyranitar switch ins as well as get some solid residual damage on Politoed switch ins, meaning the weather war will be that much easier to win.

The final change I'd like to suggest is replacing Venusaur with Lilligant. The main reason I suggest this is that you describe Venusaur as an emergency check, which Lilligant does just as well but Lilligant has an ace up it's sleeve: Healing Wish. With Healing Wish, you can bring a poke back in for free, regardless of entry hazard damage, and heal it of all damage and status. This gives one of your pokes a second chance at performing it's duties and with several rather frail pokes (Ninetales as a weather inducer, Chandelure as a Spinblocker) this could be crucial. It also gives another form of healing to your team, as most of your team lack a reliable recovery move. As this set won't be sweeping as much as Venusaur, Hidden Power Rock might be a good choice over Hidden Power Fire, as it allows Lilligant to check Volcarona and Dragonite more easily, allowing you to run W-o-W on Ninetales without many drawbacks.

So, in summary:

Hide

Chansey @ Evolite
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp.def
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

Forretress @ Leftovers (Shed Shell if you're really worried about Magnezone)
252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 Sp.def
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

Ninetales @ Leftovers
144 HP/ 252 Sp.atk/ 112 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- SolarBeam
- Sunny Day
- Will-o-wisp/Roar

Lilligant @ Life Orb
252 Sp.atk/ 64 Sp.def/ 192 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm/ Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Rock
- Sleep Powder
- Healing Wish

So those are my thoughts on the team, hope you found them helpful and good luck with the team.

Peace~

 

[Nova]

Hi Kingofgauls

Pretty nice sun team you got here with some interesting things. First off, looking at your team I can see Swords Dance Lucario with Crunch being a major threat to your team. After an SD, it is able to pretty much OHKO everything except for Gliscor and Forretress and Forry can't do much back. To check this threat, I would recommend changing Gliscor's EV spread to either 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd with an Impish nature to outspeed Adamant Lucario or 244 HP /48 Def / 216 Spd with a Jolly nature to outspeed Jolly Lucario. This allows you to hit Lucario with Earthquake and take it out before it Ice Punch/Crunchs. Another suggestion for Gliscor is using Taunt over Protect. Currently, you are quite weak to stall, especially Chansey/Blissey as Gliscor is your only real physical attacker. Taunt will allow you to wear down the pink blobs gradually while preventing them from recovering with Softboiled or Wish. It also prevents stall teams from laying down hazards and statusing your Pokemon.

Another thing I noticed about your team is that it is quite weak to Dragon spam. Your only Steel type right now is Forretress who is usually beaten by dragons as they often carry Fire-type attacks (Dragonite with Fire Punch, Latios with Hidden Power Fire, etc.). I would recommend changing Forretress to a standard Donphan set. Donphan is still able to set up Stealth Rock and spin away hazards while having the advantage of a priority Ice Shard to check Dragon-types. Donphan also synergizes better with Sun teams as it is not 4x weak to Fire and also is able to better check common Sand team threats such as Tyranitar, Landorus, and Terrakion.

Next a few nitpicky changes I would recommend. First, I would suggest Chansey over Blissey. The reason for this is that you are running a Sun team and so you don't have to worry about your special wall from losing HP every turn to weather effects. This affords you the luxury of using Chansey as she is much bulkier than Blissey. Lastly, I would consider using Black Sludge over Wide Lens on Venusaur. Wide Lens is nice to boost the accuracy of Sleep Powder, however, the item is only benefiting one of his moves and the recovery from Black Sludge is much more valuable to allow greater survivability. Wide Lens is a neat item, but I feel that it is better suited on a Pokemon that uses multiple moves with less than perfect accuracy.

Hope I helped and good luck with your team!

Sets:

Hide

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

or

Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 48 Def / 216 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Toxic
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

Donphan (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

tl;dr

Hide

Gliscor ----> Faster EV Spread
Forretress ----> Standard Donphan
Blissey ----> Chansey
Wide Lens on Venusaur ----> Black Sludge

 

[SuperCharizardMaster]

Dude, being a fellow sun team user, I have only two changes to say: why have toxic on a gliscor when it can have a freaken swords dance? I used a gliscor with SD and it worked perfectly! Also forrtress needs stealth rock to take on the the threats charizard with solar power and moltres. But other then that, it's pretty good.

P.S. nice venusaur pic!:)

 

[Aeromence]

you said you needed a reliable phazer, so i suggest nidoqueen. nidoqueen can also set up toxic spikes, which helps with a stall team, and can hit hard with fire blast. it'd probably be best to use it over gliscor, but then you lose your ground immunity. do what you like, but keep nidoqueen in mind

 

[Kingofgauls]

Thanks to everyone for your help! It's really appreciated!
So, by popular demand, Chansey will take the place of her elder sister.
Going back to your other suggestions I'm also testing:

Chandelure @ Air Balloon ; quite divided: the conservative choice would be to improve my survivability with Lefties, Air Balloon sometimes is a wasted item slot, sometimes it starts epic sweeps. Really don't know yet what to choose....

Sableye(prankster-WoW\Foul Play\Taunt\Recover) over Chandelure: the attacking power (guess what) is almost nullified, but it has many aces up his sleeve: screws up Reuniclus, burns dangerous dragons, lets me handle better stall with Taunt, with sun up can handle pretty well Tentacruel and Starmie. However I find it a bit too frail, can't really switch it in on anything bar immunities, and also Flash Fire was a useful addition....... Have to test more
Also about Chandelure I don't feel like replacing HP fighting with Energy Ball, Solar beam, etc. because it's a good check not only to Heatran but also to TTar.

Novaray's EV spread for Gliscor: kind of a mixed bag... lose some capacity to switch in taking almost no damage to gain some more outspeeds and kills..... I'll test more.
Taunt over Protect: it works very well. The only downside is that I can't switch in on TTar and see if it carries Ice Beam until it kills me. If i decide to use Sableye over Chandelure I'll stick with Protect, if not Taunt>Protect is going to happen.
I'll also test Swords Dance over Protect.

Black Sludge on Saur: good point. More survivability is always appreciated and anyway Sleep Powder missed a lot with Lenses too.

Lilligant over Saur: don't really know, does almost the same things but doesn't absorb T-Spikes..... About Healing Wish still have to try more because I'm still not very accustomed to use it....

Sunny Day Ninetales: that's also probably going to happen. I'm still working on it because I'd like to keep Substitute on it (just personal preference).

Donphan\Starmie\Tentacruel over Forretress: theoretically I'd be favourable to get rid of Forry. However keep in mind that he's my only steel type, so useful resist to Dragon, immunity to poison,etc... Also if I chose Donphan or Starmie I would also lose spikes which are a huge help for my team since it's stall. If you can suggest me a steel mon or a good spiker to replace another member of my team, then replacing forretress wouldn't be a problem.....

Nidoqueen: I am aware of her fantastic capabilities and I already thought about her during teambuilding, but I couldn't really find a place to fit her in. Maybe I should try her over Saur.

Other changes I'm testing at the moment:
Cresselia @ Flame Orb _ Trick\Moonlight\Ice Beam\Reflect over Gliscor. I'm really appreciating her walling capabilities, in my opinion she isn't that much inferior to Gliscor. Tricking a Flame Orb might seem gimmicky but i assure you that it's really unexpected and stops really cold physical sweepers. Furthermore it helps with those Rotoms always willing to give a scarf to Chansey. Ice Beam lets me better deal with dragons and Gliscor, and Moonlight in sun+Leftovers almost put me back to max health. If I'll choose to use Cresselia then I'll probably change Chansey moveset to Softboiled\Aromatherapy\Seismic Toss\Stealth Rock to remove the burn from Cress, and then if I have Aromatherapy I could even put rest on Tales. Tell me what you think about that.

Dragonite_Roost\D-tail\Fire Blast\Earthquake over Saur: I badly need a phazer and Venusaur seemed to me the less necessary team member. Multiscale+dragon type+Dnite's bulk makes it difficult to kill and it can Phaze while damaging to also rack up entry hazards damage, kill stuff with sun boosted FBlasts, and also eliminate Heatran threat with Earthquake. Feedback on this is also appreciated.

Sorry for the long post and if I forgot some suggestions.