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I think Deoxys-LG and Deoxys-E should be allowed in OU.

It's already been agreed upon that Deoxys-LG is going to remain in Ubers. His support movepool is freakin awesome and his defenses match.

As has been stated several times, a test period is in order. If Deoxys-E ends up in OU (I'm personally skeptical, but we'll see), it seems like it'll be very similar to Lucario: you won't know its moveset at all until it hits you a few times.
 
Deoxys-e is too much of a hassel for it to be in OU, it would instantly be on everybody's threat list because it can outspeed everything and makes for a great revenge killer. After being choiced it has passable attacking power and can pose a threat both as a fast revenge killer with good type coverage, and can also be used as a late game sweeper for sufficiently weakened teams. While it is true that it is an exceedingly weak uber, it would be very powerful in OU.

That being said, of course, priority moves owns this guy's ass. Seriously, 50hp and like 95 defence (I think) just don't cut it. Basically a great OU counter for this guy is Metagross with Bullet punch. I don't know if it will OHKO, so someone do some damage calcs for me.
 
Deoxys E is almost certainly going to be on Ladder in Shoddy. Basically, no one cares that he's fast or has a giant movepool; he's got mediorce stats. Smogon shouldn't need to do their own testing, the tourney's pretty conclusive.

Deoxys-LG is way too fucking good for OU.

Hi guys!
 
zxn666 said:
Deoxys-e is too much of a hassel for it to be in OU, it would instantly be on everybody's threat list because it can outspeed everything and makes for a great revenge killer. After being choiced it has passable attacking power and can pose a threat both as a fast revenge killer with good type coverage, and can also be used as a late game sweeper for sufficiently weakened teams. While it is true that it is an exceedingly weak uber, it would be very powerful in OU.

That being said, of course, priority moves owns this guy's ass. Seriously, 50hp and like 95 defence (I think) just don't cut it. Basically a great OU counter for this guy is Metagross with Bullet punch. I don't know if it will OHKO, so someone do some damage calcs for me.
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I'm not going to address anything you brought up, because I've already proved Deoxys wouldn't be overpowered(at least, in theorymon I did).
 
footballfanatic said:
I'm not going to address anything you brought up, because I've already proved Deoxys wouldn't be overpowered(at least, in theorymon I did).
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I did not say overpowered, i just said that it would be VERY POWERFUL. That does not mean overpowered, that just means that it becomes another top-tier threat that people have to watch out for.
 
I can never do damage calculations and come out with the proper answer... will someone please tell me how much damage things like Weavile's Ice Shard and Azumarill's Aqua Jet do, ect.
 
To find decent counters, first we have to look at what in stardards can actually take a Life Orb Psycho Boost rather easily. We get stuff like Blissey, Tyranitar, Weavile, Snorlax, etc. Then we look at what, among these things, doesn't get wrecked by a Superpower. Now it gets a little more limited. Spiritomb, Cresselia, Milotic, Bronzong, Celebi, Jirachi, Metagross, Suicune is pretty much the list gets refined to (with a couple others). So now we have to look at each one individually and see if they can be beaten with the third or fourth moveslot. He gets nothing on Spiritomb, but can employ HP Fire to dent Jirachi, Celebi, Metagross, and Bronzong, and can Shadow Ball those Psychic-types, and has Grass Knot for bulky waters. Then we have to run some calcs and see how much this stuff actually hurts them.

This is how we test how OU a Poke is in theorymon.
 
Theorymon doesn't necessarily prove all that much. Actual in-game testing is always and will always be better.

Theorymon suggested that Rhyperior would be a top-tier threat, and be nearly unstoppable, after all.

That said, this whole thread is dumb. Hardly anyone used Deoxys-S in the tournament, as stated by those who posted in the thread.

Come back after Deoxys-S has been on the ladder for a few months, and make your arguments then.
 
since the only viable sets for Deoxys-s are choice sets (Unless you want your deoxys to do tiny amounts of damage), it can be both outpredicted and destroyed. Psycho boost on a set is simply asking for someone to get in a revenge kill using Weavile. Pursuit=death
 
Notty does have a point. Theorymon was all over things like Rampardos and Rhyperior, both of which flopped in a tremendous way (Rampardos especially).

I don't know much about the tournament, I was disqualified in round 1 because my opponent never got my PM and then my Shoddy Forum account mysteriously had its password disappear.
 
Well someone previously asked how much dammage Weavile would do against Deoxys - S with priority ice shard.

Well if Weavile had max atk and choice band and Deoxys - S had 0 ev's in def and hp with 31 iv's in hp and def the outcome would be.

Defender Hp: 241
Damage: 113 - 133
Damage: 46.89% - 55.19%

And now same situation with Deoxys having 0 iv's in hp and def, and still no ev's in either.

Defender HP: 210
Damage: 132 - 155
Damage: 62.86% - 73.81%

So as you can see Weavile won't OHKO Deoxys. However I might wonder about shadow sneakers with choice band. Lawl maybe Dusknoir physical attacker? That would be the day. I did consider Absol though.

Ok this time Absol iv's 31 atk, 252 atk ev's life orb. Deoxys 31 iv's in hp and def and no ev's in hp and def again. Results : Absol used SUCKER PUNCH

Defender Hp: 241
Damage: 413 - 486
Damage: 171.37% - 201.66%
OHKO - with Life Orb ^ As you can see I don't need to compare with a weaker Deoxys' defences as even with those defences it's dead.

Now without Life Orb. Same Deoxys since with 31 iv's in hp and def no ev's in def or hp.

Defender HP: 241
Damage: 318 - 374
Damage: 131.95% - 155.19%
Still a OHKO

So if Deoxys - S was running around gagging ppl with it's super speed, you might actually see more of Absol around being there to slap it back with an attack. Don't forget Super Luck! crit hit's galore.
 
Absol can't switch in for fear of Superpower, but can maybe get in on other attacks?

Might want to look at LO Boltbeam against Absol.

Once he does get in, however, it's GG for Deoxys-S if he can't predict. Sucker Punch beats him if he stays, Pursuit owns him if he runs.
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
To find decent counters, first we have to look at what in stardards can actually take a Life Orb Psycho Boost rather easily. We get stuff like Blissey, Tyranitar, Weavile, Snorlax, etc. Then we look at what, among these things, doesn't get wrecked by a Superpower. Now it gets a little more limited. Spiritomb, Cresselia, Milotic, Bronzong, Celebi, Jirachi, Metagross, Suicune is pretty much the list gets refined to (with a couple others). So now we have to look at each one individually and see if they can be beaten with the third or fourth moveslot. He gets nothing on Spiritomb, but can employ HP Fire to dent Jirachi, Celebi, Metagross, and Bronzong, and can Shadow Ball those Psychic-types, and has Grass Knot for bulky waters. Then we have to run some calcs and see how much this stuff actually hurts them.

This is how we test how OU a Poke is in theorymon.
Click to expand...

No, this is how we DON'T test a Poke in theorymon. Pick a moveset(consisting of 4 moves, not 8) that you think you will use, and THEN get a list of pokes that can counter it.
 
Notty said:
Absol can't switch in for fear of Superpower, but can maybe get in on other attacks?

Might want to look at LO Boltbeam against Absol.

Once he does get in, however, it's GG for Deoxys-S if he can't predict. Sucker Punch beats him if he stays, Pursuit owns him if he runs.
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Okay then that's a total 50/50 guesswork chance. What if you Sucker Punch as he switches or Pursuit as he attacks you ?
 
Well, yeah, hence "if he can't predict" part. >.>

Didn't say it was surefire thing. I mean, after all, he could do something stupid like Recover to stall out your Sucker Punches and eat a Pursuit or something. It's a lot like the whole Weavile/Dugtrio problem.

Personally, I'd just use Metagross to counter him, simply because I don't forsee many Deoxys-S carrying HP Fire.
 
I am surprised this discussion is still alive...

Basically, I feel that both Deoxys LG and Deoxys E (yeah, screw the new nicknames) belong in Uber still.
 
Deoxys-E makes Choice Scarf useless, as most CSers are fagile like tissue paper.

Just a theory.

Why does anyone even dream of that Cresselia=Deoxys-LG? It should have been obvious.
 
Deoxys-E makes Choice Scarf useless, as most CSers are fagile like tissue paper.
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back up your arguement please, ok it would be faster than most of them but it has to switch in and scare them out thats going to be hard with 50/90/90 defences and 95/95 attacks are not going to be 1KOing much unless its a glass cannon, 2x weak on frail pokemon, 4x weak on bulky pokemon. the only thing you have to fear if you are slightly bulky and it can not hit you 4x efective, is psycho boost, and that is resisted by very many OU's.

oh and good point about the cressy=deoxys D thing but deoxys's movepool/stats are better this makes it almost imposible to take down. imagine a snorlax with skarms defences + quick healing + a HUGE support movepool + decent typeing + ok speed + useable ofences + countercoat. and you see why it is uber.
 
Saying that "Deoxys-E makes Choice Scarf useless" is total bullshit. It makes Choice Scarf useless ONLY if Deoxys-E is facing a Choice Scarfer, and Deoxys can't switch into most Choice Scarfers easily because its defenses are only average to below-average. Plus those Scarfers can always switch out.
 
All you need to do to outspeed Deoxys - S is have something faster than max speed Garchomp 333. Anything with or more than 336 with choice scarf comes to or outspeeds the max speed of Deoxys - S without scarf on it.....cuz then Deoxys' speed would be 756 at the max iv's and ev's @ .@. So if you want to REALLY kill Deoxys - S use Scarfvile with nightslash. Sure does make choice scarfers useless huh? (sarcasm)

Actually Scarfvile makes a pretty good revenge killer: aerial ace, night slash, brick break, ice punch. I have one lying around in my box somewhere XD
 
The only common Scarfer above 102 Base Speed is Gengar. Choice Scarf Weavile, that sure doesn't overcentralize or anything, huh?
 
speed is not everything, it needs to switch in and also be able to hurt stuff thats not 4x weak, psycho boost will become predictable.
 
Looking at an actually good Shadow Sneaker I came across Gallade. Gallade could Thunder wave it, or use Shadow sneak and might be able to take a hit from one of Deoxys - S's moves.

In the possible case Gallade had choice band and used Shadow Sneak this is how much it did

Gallade with jolly nature uses Shadow sneak. Max attack with choice band and Deoxys - S having max iv's in hp and def no ev's though:
Defender HP: 241
Damage: 155 - 183
Damage: 64.32% - 75.93%
As you can see not a OHKO. That's the bests defensive odds for Deoxys - S. then again if Deoxys - S had life orb, you already took it's life down to about 3 - 4 more turns. or you could weaken it before hand - the problem is Recover.
Same situation with Deoxys - S have zero iv's and ev's in hp and def with the same Gallade:
Defender HP: 210
Damage: 181 - 213
Damage: 86.19% - 101.43%
Not bad OHKO if your lucky. If you can get a Gallade to switch in on Deoxys - S with no problem you might be able to 2HKO it if DS (Deoxys - S, I'm getting tired of writing out the full name plus its a good punn) doesn't carry shadow ball or it's moves OHKO Gallade. *Note* This situation is likely to NEVER HAPPEN with all the sav ppl running around and their 31 iv's in all stats.

Gallade with Life orb though is a much better idea. Then again, losing hp doesn't help keep Gallade alive any longer then it won't be. Even leftovers, as long as Gallade can take a hit and twave DS you basically ruined it.

Gallade is a possible counter - note * as long as Deoxys - S doesn't have Shadow ball or other moves I haven't covered......I'm sure you ppl will find one though.

Then again REMEMBER pokemon only have 4 move slots
 
BLAZIKEN_57 said:
The only common Scarfer above 102 Base Speed is Gengar. Choice Scarf Weavile, that sure doesn't overcentralize or anything, huh?
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I've seen Scarfodactyls already, who are used to battle other Scarfers. Some other high-speeders get random Choice Scarfs slapped on them as well. Not often, but it happens.
 
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