• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

I think Deoxys-LG and Deoxys-E should be allowed in OU.

in fact lots of stuff can revenge it they just need an attack that can do 60%+ (LO damage+other passive damage)
Click to expand...

40% of passive damage? Maybe if you have three layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock down...

and to be able to survive 1 attack from 95/95 attacks. not hard without a 4x effective attack.
Click to expand...

Lol...looking at the OU tier list the following Pokemon are potentially OHKO'd by a Life Orb Deoxys with SuperPower/PsychoBoost/Shadow Ball/IceBeam:

Abomasnow, Azelf, Breloom, Dragonite, Dugtrio, Electivire, Garchomp, Gengar, Gliscor, Heracross, Infernape, Jolteon, Lucario, Machamp, Mamoswine, PorygonZ, Roserade, Salamence, Starmie, Tentacruel, Tyranitar, Weavile, Weezing, Yanmega.

Countless others such as Celebi, Donphan, Hippowdon, Blissey and Snorlax are easily 2HKO'd, and it goes without saying that he outspeeds every single one of those.

I accept that he's not really uber-quality, and there's a good chance he can remain OU, but to say it's "not hard" to survive his attacks and revenge kill him is ignorant. I've found that Metagross, Bronzong and Jirachi are the best counters though.
 
Well let's see back to that damage calc on Milotic.

Deoxys - S uses Psycho boost on Milotic (Phox's Milotic). DS has life orb with 31 iv's in spatk and 252 ev's in spatk. Milotic has 31 iv's in hp and spdef - probably not the EXACT iv's that Phox's Milotic has ofcourse, with 252 hp ev's and 56 ev's in SpDef.

Deoxys - S has Naive Nature*

DS used Psycho Boost on Milotic
Defender Hp: 394
Damage: 114 - 134
Damage: 28.93% - 34.01%
If I had the exact iv's on Milotic I'd get a better calculation. But as far as this goes it's not even close to a OHKO. If your Milotic had Recover it'd be able to easily wall DS.
If the Deoxys - S was Choice Specs variant it'd have Rash nature. So I'll put down how much damage that would do.

Defender Hp: 394
Damage: 144 - 169
Damage: 36.55% - 42.89%
a good 2 - 3 HKO once again Milotic can recover the damage off and also use Hypnosis.

*Once again I'd like to have the actual IV's if you have them to see how much damage it truly does*
 
testing deoxys-e so far: thunder wave RUINS it. if it's paralyzed, it's like one of the worst pokemon ever.

also, choice scarf gengar revenge kills it pretty easy ;(
 
noob3 said:
testing deoxys-e so far: thunder wave RUINS it. if it's paralyzed, it's like one of the worst pokemon ever.

also, choice scarf gengar revenge kills it pretty easy ;(
Click to expand...
The only Thunder Wave users that easily survive its attacks are Cresselia and Jirachi, and only one of those uses it frequently. And who wouldn't switch out Deoxys-E without knowing Gengar's item?
 
too bad t-wave is not used often due to Motor Drive/ Volt Absorb, not even blissey carries it much anymore.

Or you can always go back to lol Aromatherapy (I still use it).

Saying Ice Shard is used cause of CSchomp is bullshit. Mamo is slow enough to warrant a nice priority STAB move. It is the same reason why Dusknoir uses Shadow Sneak, except his speed is down right abysmal.

also, choice scarf gengar revenge kills it pretty easy ;(
Click to expand...
Using a +spd Nature Gengar and to CS it means it will kill Deoxys-S and will do chicken scrap damage to anything else. Do you see the problem yet?

And oh yea, using a Calm Milotic and putting all her EVs in SD and HP is dumb. If Deoxys-S needs that much counter to it to make it usable in OU, then it's better off not used at all.

And yea, I am boycotting shoddy for a while. Until they get it through their thick skull that Deoxys-S and Wobbuffet (yes, it's their "next step" to a "better game") is more trouble then it's worth, I'll just wait for Competitor to come out and fight some people with some common sense.
 
After experiencing Deoxys-E firsthand today in an enviorment outside of Shoddy's tournament (where I, and everyone else, was prepared specifically for it) I have to say that it's definatly uber material. I watched 3 consecutive games where it turned around a 3-1, 3-1 and 5-1 deficite into a winning game. It has more than enough power with a Life Orb to be the ultimate late game clean-up pokemon.
 
I really wonder why nobody has yet considered Spiritomb, it ruins all possible Deoxys-s and is a highly reliable pokemon counter.
 
zxn666 said:
I really wonder why nobody has yet considered Spiritomb, it ruins all possible Deoxys-s and is a highly reliable pokemon counter.
Click to expand...

Spiritomb sucks against everything else. Spiritomb's purpose is early game kills, Deoxys-S's job is to late game sweep.
 
I didn't waste 252 spDef ev's into Miltotic I took 56 into SpDef like what Phox had invested ev's into to. Lemme check out a Milotic without spDef then. Like the normal Bulky Water set on the pokedex part of smogon. The attacking Deoxys - S has 252 spatk ev's with 31 iv's in spatk and life orb with Naive nature making spatk neutral and Milotic will have Bold nature.

Deoxys - S used Psycho Boost
*whoops* forgetten to add STAB I'll fix this up my bad ; ~ ; Thanks for pointing it out Lee. These are the fixed results. I'm using Metalkid's damage calc so you know.

Defender Hp: 394
Damage: 195 - 230
Damage: 49.49% - 58.38%

Proceeding attack afterwards
Damage: 88 - 103
Damage: 22.34% - 26.14

and now with Calm nature

Defender hp: 394
Damage: 178 - 209
Damage: 45.18% - 53.05%
2 - 3 HKO again

Milotic doesn't need spdef or calm nature to take a hit from Deoxys - S psycho boost. Plus Milotic can Hypnosis back. *note* Deoxys - S with choice specs prolly screws Milotic over, but a Second Psycho boost prolly won't OHKO or even 3HKO if Milotic used Recover.

Deoxys - S uses Thunderbolt on Milotic *Milotic with Bold nature*

Defender HP: 394
Damage: 179 - 211
Damage: 45.43% - 53.55%
2 - 3 HKO once again though this won't OHKO Milotic can hypnosis and then recover off the damage.

I might add calm nature here if I see fit.
 
Qyyu said:
I didn't waste 252 spDef ev's into Miltotic I took 56 into SpDef like what Phox had invested ev's into to. Lemme check out a Milotic without spDef then. Like the normal Bulky Water set on the pokedex part of smogon. The attacking Deoxys - S has 252 spatk ev's with 31 iv's in spatk and life orb with Naive nature making spatk neutral and Milotic will have Bold nature.

Deoxys - S used Psycho Boost

Defender Hp: 394
Damage: 131 - 154
Damage: 33.25% - 39.09%
3 - 4 HKO

and now with Calm nature
Defender hp: 394
Damage: 119 - 140
Damage: 30.20% - 35.53%
3 - 4 HKO again

Milotic doesn't need spdef or calm nature to take a hit from Deoxys - S psycho boost. Plus Milotic can Hypnosis back. Kinda a one-two punch to ya Clear XD
Click to expand...

Factor in the -2 Special Attack drop and it will never kill Milo.
 
DS used Psycho Boost on Milotic
Defender Hp: 394
Damage: 114 - 134
Damage: 28.93% - 34.01%
Click to expand...


I don't know what you used to work that out, but:

+ SpA 252 Evs Deoxys-E with Life Orb Psycho Boost vs 252/56 Milotic = 53.05% - 62.44%

Not a safe counter, especially if the Deoxys has Thunderbolt (slightly less damage, but no "recoil") or Calm Mind.
 
Hey guys, I got a great idea!

Let's draw conclusions after a day and a half of testing where people haven't been able to adjust their teams for a threat, and most people don't know what to expect from Deoxys at all!

Yeah!
 
aslong as Milotic isn't switched in to take a hit Milotic can be a counter, a risky one at that aslong as it can get a hypnosis in *AND HIT*
 
Can I be perhaps the first person to say that this pokemon should be banned from standard play JUST BECAUSE it's a Deoxys? I think it is ridiculously retarded to have one version of a pokemon, the same pokemon, be allowed in standard play but not the others. It only serves to make the game more inaccessable to people.

I don't think the pokemon itself warrants instant banning based on its stats, although it is overall a bigger threat than most pokemon could ever hope to be. I say we should keep it banned because its name is Deoxys.

Closed-minded? Sure. But doesn't it make sense?
 
Clear said:
Spiritomb sucks against everything else. Spiritomb's purpose is early game kills, Deoxys-S's job is to late game sweep.
Click to expand...


Spritomb is not for early game kills; it can wall fairly well and can threaten opponents with hypnosis if they switch in a counter.
Not to mention it has no weaknesses, which makes killing it that much harder.
And if you hurt it, can can hurt back with Pain Split, which is an awsome move.
How you would use it for early game kills is beyond me though; i've always thought that you needed something fast and powerful for early game killing, not something slow and weak like Spiritomb.

And besides, i was just stating the feasibility of Spiritomb as a counter for Deoxys-s only, not for the rest of the team that is built around supporting Deoxys-s
 
Baldafor said:
Can I be perhaps the first person to say that this pokemon should be banned from standard play JUST BECAUSE it's a Deoxys? I think it is ridiculously retarded to have one version of a pokemon, the same pokemon, be allowed in standard play but not the others. It only serves to make the game more inaccessable to people.

I don't think the pokemon itself warrants instant banning based on its stats, although it is overall a bigger threat than most pokemon could ever hope to be. I say we should keep it banned because its name is Deoxys.

Closed-minded? Sure. But doesn't it make sense?
Click to expand...


No

All forms of Deoxys are considered different pokemon in the metagame, which is exactly why Smogon has 4 different analysis for 4 different Deoxys.

I think you're just retarded.
 
No need to insult the guy, the thing is that basing something on a name is simple minded and a weak argument. After all "What's in a name? that which we call a rose, By any other name would smell as sweet". Basically if you called Magikarp Deoxys it would be Uber then? In that way...no it doesn't make sense at all. - Lawl Romeo and Juliet qoute XD

Also I brought up Milotic bacause Phox said a psycho boost from Deoxys - S took off about 84% of his Milotic's health. Which is possible with certain iv's or choice specs with modest nature Deoxys - S
 
footballfanatic said:
Hey guys, I got a great idea!

Let's draw conclusions after a day and a half of testing where people haven't been able to adjust their teams for a threat, and most people don't know what to expect from Deoxys at all!

Yeah!
Click to expand...

People know exactly what to expect from Deoxys-E to and extent, though that's another thing about it. It's movepool is so huge there are tons of sets it can run, anywhere from Specs to Band, to a Mix'd Life Orb set, or even a support set with Knock Off, Thunder Wave and Recover. Deoxys-E is like Gengar, Salamence and Tyranitar. You have no idea what kind of set it's running, and once you do it can be to late.
 
Clear said:
Using a +spd Nature Gengar and to CS it means it will kill Deoxys-S and will do chicken scrap damage to anything else. Do you see the problem yet?
Click to expand...

My modest CS Gengar with not even max Spe EVs was outspeeding Deo-E all day on Shoddy.
 
iownyourgrass said:
Deoxys speed was just legalized on Shoddy. My reaction was creating a stall set, it stalled out his 6x CM'd Spiritomb, his Raikou, Breloom, and Dragonite. Imagine what defense Deoxys would do to Standard.
Click to expand...

Darkflagrance said:
True, but it does have the ability to tear holes in many beginner teams.

Edit: I fought the stall set. It looked hopeless until I got a crit with night slash.
Click to expand...

Can somebody who has faced a stall Deoxys-E provide some more details?
 
It's not quite that simple.

This is the only pokemon that can freely change into its various forms. Essentially, you could battle someone with a Deoxys-S, they could go and change it to a LG, and rebattle you. Same pokemon, same moveset, but different stats.

Of course, you all probably mostly play on Netbattle or are waiting for Competetor, but it is not quite as easy to keep track of what's going on in the actual DS version, especially for the unexperienced.

Is it really fair to tell someone, "Hey, Deoxys is fair to use, I am using the S version, it's not imbalanced!" to an unsuspecting player, when you are actually using FR?

This has nothing to do with the "name", it's the nature of the pokemon itself. The last thing I want is some 12 year old telling me in a tourney somewhere that his Deoxys is fine and actually getting someone in charge to believe him.
 
Damage: 250 - 294
Damage: 119.05% - 140.00%

ninjask leads mess up deoxys-e leads with 1 x-scissor form a 252 with netual nature agaist a 0/0 OHKO's it

of course youll need a speed boost to outrun it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top