Idea for a Pokemon Wii Game

[Fuzzberry]

As far as deadlines for movesets, does it sound plausible for all of the movesets to be in by this Friday? We've kind of hit a wall, and I feel like deadlines are needed to keep things running smoothly.

I can do that. I'm almost done as is. Didn't help that Serebii's Pokedex is broken, though.

 

[foibles]

Ok, I have a radical proposition. I think that instead of creating a moveset for every single Pokémon in the game, making trainers on every route, determining levels, EVs, IVs, skill level (if my 255 point system is implemented) and anything else that is needed to create a Pokémon game; we could simply create a "demo" game. You guys have been into the GameStop stores, right? You know how they have those little cut down Pokémon games that showcase a few Pokémon, let you battle someone and stuff? We should begin with something like that. It would be a really good way to get gamefreak to actually think about our proposition, without actually going to all of the work to make the game. Think about it. If we make the entire thing, get everything translated, etc etc... Show it gamefreak and they blatantly say "no" "we don’t want to use this idea and we never will" I would all be kind of a waste right? And we HAVE to submit it to gamefreak, not some other studio or even produce it ourselves, because we would be breaking SO many intellectual property laws it would not even be funny.

Also, I would like to point out that if any of you have purchased a wii system (I have) and agreed to the EULA for the online shop, then you are legally bound not to submit any ideas for Pokémon games to Nintendo.

(This is not spam, I am just sharing what I think is best for the project.)

with that said, I will make the hoenn E4 movesets. (and edit some of the pokemon)

 

[Solstice]

Ok, I have a radical proposition. I think that instead of creating a moveset for every single Pokémon in the game, making trainers on every route, determining levels, EVs, IVs, skill level (if my 255 point system is implemented) and anything else that is needed to create a Pokémon game; we could simply create a "demo" game. You guys have been into the GameStop stores, right? You know how they have those little cut down Pokémon games that showcase a few Pokémon, let you battle someone and stuff? We should begin with something like that. It would be a really good way to get gamefreak to actually think about our proposition, without actually going to all of the work to make the game. Think about it. If we make the entire thing, get everything translated, etc etc... Show it gamefreak and they blatantly say "no" "we don’t want to use this idea and we never will" I would all be kind of a waste right? And we HAVE to submit it to gamefreak, not some other studio or even produce it ourselves, because we would be breaking SO many intellectual property laws it would not even be funny.

Also, I would like to point out that if any of you have purchased a wii system (I have) and agreed to the EULA for the online shop, then you are legally bound not to submit any ideas for Pokémon games to Nintendo.

(This is not spam, I am just sharing what I think is best for the project.)

with that said, I will make the hoenn E4 movesets. (and edit some of the pokemon)

Um, sorry to burst your big idea, but we've known we're only making Pallet Town for about 5, 6 pages now...

 

[foibles]

If I may ask, then why are we doing E4 movesets for hoenn? (or any E4 stuff at all)

 

[Solstice]

We're planning what happens later, so that we can have a demo of the game, and a plan for after we leave Pallet Town.

 

[foibles]

Hoenn E4 Movesets

Here are the first two:

Sidney
-Absol (4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe) [Super Luck] {Scope lens}
    1. Sucker Punch
    2. Swords Dance
    3. Detect
    4. Perish Song
-Shiftry (252 Atk/4 sAtk/252 Spe) [Early Bird] {Muscle Band}
    1. Fake Out
    2. Brick Break
    3. Seed Bomb
    4. leaf Storm
-Weavile (4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe) [Pressure] {Life Orb}
    1. Ice Shard
    2. Night Slash
    3. Giga Impact
    4. X-Scissor
-Drapion (252 HP/252 Atk/4 sDef) [Sniper] {Scope lens}
    1. Cross Poison
    2. Ice Fang
    3. Rest
    4. Sleep Talk
-Cacturne (4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe) [Sand Veil] {Focus Sash}
    1. leech Seed
    2. Swords Dance
    3. Sucker Punch
    4. Focus Punch
-Tyranitar (252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe) [Sand Stream] {Salac Berry}
    1. Dragon Dance
    2. Stone Edge
    3. Earthquake
    4. Outrage

Pheobe
-Mismagius (4 HP/252 sAtk/252 Spe) [Levitate] {Choice Specs}
    1. Shadow Ball
    2. Power Gem
    3. Psychic
    4. Dark Pulse
-Dusknoir (252 HP/4 Atk/252 sDef) [Pressure] {Leftovers}
    1. Pain Split
    2. Will-o-wisp
    3. Shadow Punch
    4. Payback
-Spiritomb (252 HP/4 Def/252 sDef) [Pressure] {Leftovers}
    1. Will-o-wisp
    2. Double Team
    3. Calm Mind
    4. Dark Pulse
-Drifblim (252 HP/172 Def/84 sDef) [Unburden] {Sitrus Berry}
    1. Substitute
    2. Baton Pass
    3. Stockpile
    4. Swallow
-Bannette (4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe) [Frisk] {Leftovers}
    1. Grudge
    2. Will-o-wisp
    3. Shadow Sneak
    4. Confuse Ray
-Gengar (4 HP/252 sAtk/252 Spe) [Levitate] {Life Orb}
    1. Giga Drain
    2. Shadow Ball
    3. Focus Blast
    4. Sludge Bomb

 

[Xia]

Exactly what Solstice said. On a side note, right before I fell asleep last night I sarted coming up with a formula for the targeting/accuracy/parry system. What if it looked something like this?

A=(((a+s)/(a'+s'))/x)/2

A is the amount of time the random parry button (see OP if this doesn't make sense) stays on screen.

X is your accuracy, in decimal.

a is the Pokemon's aggro. a is the defending Pokemon, a' is the attacking Pokemon.

s is one-tenth of the base Speed of the Pokemon. s is the defending pokemon's speed. s' is the attacking Pokemon's speed.

So, to try this out, let's say a level 50 Caterpie (a=1, s=45) attacks a lv 50 Wobboffet(a=3, s=33) with Tackle (x=1.0 for the sake of things). The equation would look like this:

A=(((1+4.5)/(3+3.3))/1)/2

A=0.4365

That number (0.4365) would be how long the Trainer of the Woboffet would have to hit the Random Parry Button before the attack hits.

Obviously this is just a sloppy copy of the formula we could use, but its a start. If someone wants to try this out with some other Pokemon, that would work. According to this formula, a smaller, speedier Pokemon would have longer to parry the same attack than a bigger, slower Pokemon.

EDIT: Here's another equation using the same formula:

Level 100 Timid Gengar using Focus Blast against a level 50 Modest Magneton:

A=(((3+12.2)/(3+35))/0.7)/2

A=0.285714

 

[AnimeAlex]

Wow. Just, wow!

I love this idea! It just seems to be the perfect way to make Pokemon 3D!

But, how are you actually making the game? I've heard talk of you making Pallet Town, but is that just a model or a game demo?

 

[Xia]

Wow. Just, wow!

I love this idea! It just seems to be the perfect way to make Pokemon 3D!

But, how are you actually making the game? I've heard talk of you making Pallet Town, but is that just a model or a game demo?

It would be a fully functionable Demo of (probably) Pallet Town and Route 101. That wiould mean we would only have to program Pidgey, Ratata, Pikachu (for the Demo's starting Pokemon), and maybe Eevee (for the Rival's first Pokemon).

If we use those Pokemon, we would be able to demonstrate the following things:
1. 3D rendering of Pallet Town
2. All attacking types, bar Special [close-range] and Physiical [long-range]
3. The Parry/Dodge system

 

[foibles]

That looks really good, but I think that the speed would be usable with a slightly larger effect. One thing I think is necessary with any dodge formula we come up with is that it uses base speed stats instead of total speed. why is this? lets say you have your swampert in, and your opponent has a weavile out. a standard weavile set has a full 252 speed, and normal pert has 0 speed. so lets apply the formula: lets say, that for the sake of the example, both pokemon have an aggro of 4 and weavile is using a 100% accurate move.
A=1.0((4+156)/(4+349))
A=.453

add a plus speed nature:
A=1.0((4+156)/(4+383))
A=.413

but if we use base stats:
A=1.0((4+60)/(4+125))
A=.496

It does not look like much on paper, but the added .043 or .083 seconds can make a big differece when it comes to actually dodging attacks.

The other thing that a non-base stat system would create a metagame that put increible ephasis on speed. even more so than the present metagame for the DS. things like ninjask would be some of the best annoyers available because with a +speed nature and 252 EVs the little bug reaches 460 speed, and with a scarf, it gets to 690 speed. this would make ninjask with choice scarf and toxic the ultimate pokemon. It could easily wall pretty much anything other than electrode, which might be able to get a hit in once in a while.

 

[Xia]

Check the new formula, not sure if that helps change things THAT much, but it is different.
@Skitty: rewrite your example using the new formula. I'm curious to see how much of a difference that makes.

EDIT: Changed the formula some more, using the Base Stat idea. I like that better.

 

[foibles]

weavile with 252 speed EVs no scarf vs pert with 0 spee EVs:

A=(((4+156)/(4+349))/1)/2
A=.226

Same, but with +speed nature on weavile:

A=(((4+156)/(4+383))/1)/2
A=.206

Same, but with +speed and choice scarf
A=(((4+156)/(4+575))/1)/2
A=.138

Now with base stats:
A=(((4+60)/(4+125))/1)/2
A=.248

the amount of difference remains significant. 0.11 difference between the scarf vile and base stat, 0.042 for the + speed and 0.022 for the normal spread. once again, these figure dont look large, but may turn out to be significant


EDIT: ahhh... my figures are too late again. well, thanks using that idea!
EDIT: and I appear to have missed the 1/10th thing, so they were off any way!

 

[foibles]

Sorry for double posting, bbut this thread is moving slowly at the moment.

OK. I have compiled a list of all of the pokemon that we need (and a few suggustions):

-Pidgey (wild pokemon on route X)
-Rattata (wild pokemon on route X)
-Horsea (surfing pokemon on rout X)
-Squirtle (your pokemon, knows surf)
-Eevee (other trainer or rival's pokemon)

The idea here is an extended version of pallet town. we create a route on one part of the town, that contains:
-Trees
-Grass
-Water
-Other Trainer

Map: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_dqvYW-VskZj4OwCNhOTlw?feat=directlink

This setup very nicely showcases the game. you have water for water battles, a rival for trainer battles, and some Pokemon for terrestrial battles. I don't know if the pokemon above are the ones we will actually use, but it would be nice to limit the number to 5 or so. and things like ratta and pidgey are very easy to implement because they only use tackle at levels below 5.


EDIT: added map

 

[Darkartisan]

Ok guys, as we speak, I am posting this on Serebii! Great ideas on the formulas for the parry attacks. I am honestly more concerned about battles than anything else, the 3 dimensional area isn't nearly as hard as the 3D pokemon doing flips and stuff. This is some serious shit.

 

[PokemonKing]

Could I have the link to it please when you can?

Xia: I'll check out other pokemon with the formula.

Edit: I did an example of the formula. It's a Salamence (a=3, s=100) using Dragon Rush (X=0.75) on a Pikachu (a'=1, s'=90) [I figured levels didn't matter as I didn't see them in the equation.]:

A=(((1+9)/(3+10))/0.75)/2
Therefore, A=0.5128 (rounded to nearest 4 places.) Pikachu has a little more than half a second to parry dragon rush (if I'm not mistaken)

I did the same with everything except that salamence now uses Earthquake.

A=(((1+9/(3+10))/1)/2
Therefore, A=0.3846(again, rounded to nearest four places) That's a significant difference. Pikachu has about 1/8 of a second longer to parry dragon rush than earthquake, which could make a huge difference.

Hope that helps :)

 

[Xia]

Yeah, levels no longer make a difference in the new equation. I'll edit that out.

Not sure how to make the equation any more airtight. but then again, if Dragon Rush only hits 3 out of four times, and Earthquake hits every time, doesn't that make more sense? I mean, if you're guarenteed a hit, you should really have to be quick to Dodge/Parry the attack.

Maybe I'm just trying to defend my own equation, I'm not sure. =P At any rate, I think that if we only look at the Pokemon that we are using (once we settle on that) we will be able to make the formula more secure. I like it how it is, but if there's another way of doing it, by all means post it.

And I like the extended Map. I do think that we should try to implement the ledge thing, if only to make it more like the handheld games. Those ledges are what keep you from going back to get that damn Clefairy, after all. =]

 

[foibles]

the map is meant to just be simple. We can add more stuff on later.

 

[Darkflagrance]

Perhaps we should test battling at high levels of dodging with pokemon such as Weavile and Ninjask to determine when the dodging capacity of certain pokemon becomes too great?

 

[Frank_327]

I really like the ideas you have, but I think part of it is too ambitious.

First of all, why shoot for an MMO and almost 500 pokemon in the first released game? This would mean too much costs for a single pokemon game, and follow up games would be hard to make. I'd say propose a game that has only kanto, 150 pokemon, and online being limited to single battles and trading like the current games. It would pretty much be a pokemon red or blue remake, but in 3D, with a different way to battle.

The best part of the game for most players will probably be riding their rapidash, or letting machoke clear a boulder that was in the way in realtime 3D. They probably don't care too much about the rest of the pokemon yet, and they could care less about the intrinsic battle mechanics.

Then something about difficulty. As all pokemon games, this should probably be aimed at children, while still suitable for older people. The perfect way to do this is probably have a standard difficulty setting, on which it's very doable to finish the game for children. If you want a challenge, you'll have to go to game options before you start the game, and select a higher difficulty setting. In this way, the kids get satisfaction about beating the game on the regular difficulty setting (maybe even not knowing about the harder one), while all you competitive players can enjoy it too.

Something I think this battle system needs is energy, and natural HM's. For example, you can just spam thunder with your pikachu, but if the enemy uses some evading move all the time, pikachu will be tired and vulnerable afterwards. Also, it's probably best to not manually aim attacks. Pokemon is about strategy, not reflexes or precision. By just doing an attack, let your pokemon target the other normally. It would be great to have a manual aim button to for example burn away the ice around an enemy, or smash away their cover. Hell, you could let machoke pick up a boulder and throw it at the enemy while it's vulnerable. Also, strength, surfing, fly etc. shouldn't be moves anymore in the normal sense. They should be extra moves, that you can use outside battle, and inside battle by using the terrain. For example, in a fight strength would do nothing, unless you actually pick something up and throw it.

On an ending note, I don't think trading between the handheld pokemon games and the wii games would be a good idea. For a real time 3D pokemon game to work, you need to rethink the way battling works, and maybe even rethink moves. If this idea becomes a reality, you probably won't want to play the older games anymore.

 

[foibles]

ok, this post was in fact, almost trollish imo. We seriously have had enough people tell us why we cannot do this project, and I am getting seriously tired of it. And also, the writer has obviously read nothing but the OP, so I suggust we put somthing in it about things like this.

 

[Frank_327]

ok, this post was in fact, almost trollish imo. We seriously have had enough people tell us why we cannot do this project, and I am getting seriously tired of it. And also, the writer has obviously read nothing but the OP, so I suggust we put somthing in it about things like this.

Sorry if it seemed like that. I actually did go through the whole thread, but I mainly stuck to the bigger posts, and skimmed a lot of it. I know you guys are now busy with a very simple model, and I don't want to interfere with that, but to me it seemed like most people here had something too ambitious in mind. Eventually this idea could very well be the foundation of a pokemon MMO, or Pokemon RPG with every region into it which is working fluidly, but the first game should be simple.

I'm not saying this can't be done. I'm just saying it will not happen that this will turn into a 500 pokemon multi-region game immediately. No matter how you do it, going 3D and real time will completely change the gameplay. It should be done, but if the developers would try to put too much into it, it might not work.

The way you guys are doing it now is a good approach IMO, and don't let me hold you guys back.

 

[Xia]

I'm not going to waste my time reiterating the same things I've said time and time again. I'm not angry with you Frank, just people in general who do not read word for word what we have done and thn expect their suggestions to be implemented. Nearly everything in your origional post was already answered, discussed, and approved/disapproved.

Anyway, here's two demonstrations of the Dodge Formula:

Ninjask attacking an Alakazam with X-Scissor
A=(((3+12)/(1+16)/1)/2)
A=0.4412

Alakazam attacking Ninjask with Ice Punch
A=(((1+16)/(3+12)/1)/2)
A=0.5667

That works out pretty well, actually. The higher the two Pokemon's Speeds, the faster the atacks, the longer they each have to attack.

It also makes more sense for Ninjask to have so much more time, because it has 40 more Speed.

 

[Fuzzberry]

I'm going to have my three movesets roughly finished by the end of the night.

Sorry if Lt. Surge's movesets suck...his Pokemon, at the levels they are, are super-limited.

 

[Darkartisan]

great job guys! I have some bad news though :/

Unfortunately, I have failed to post this thread on Serebii.net. My computer would not comprehend with (the site) and, well, y'know.

So I would like it if Xia could post this on Serebii, anyone that contributes, it would be extremely appreciated.

 

[Xia]

great job guys! I have some bad news though :/

Unfortunately, I have failed to post this thread on Serebii.net. My computer would not comprehend with (the site) and, well, y'know.

So I would like it if Xia could post this on Serebii, anyone that contributes, it would be extremely appreciated.

Would you like me to just post the OP? if so, I think we should reformat it so that it is easier to read, and include things we've done that aren't there (ie. movesets, the formula, ect.)

I can't do it atm, seeing as Serebii's forums have an increasingly annnoying habit of crashing on me. >_< I'll do it tomorrow at school.