I'm a sucker for the frog...

DFang

DFang

Toxicroak is a very quirky pokemon that works very well in UU and even Ubers, but is often overlooked in the OU and BL tiers. Platinum has brought him a few new tricks, and I believe one of those in particular makes him very viable in OU battles: Thunder Punch.

I've been using this setup:

Adamant (Life Orb) 252 Att, 252 Spd, 6 Def
Dry Skin
-Thunder Punch
-Sucker Punch
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance

This Toxicroak completely walls Azumarril and Vaporeon while hitting back with boosted SE hits. It is immune to toxic and toxic spikes, absorbs water attacks to refill HP. Also resists Stealth Rock. This guy will outspeed Gyarados without any boosts or a +Spd nature and OHKOs when brought in after the Intimidate drop.

Swords dance on the switch. Sucker Punch for the priority attack. Brick Break for accurate STAB and for breaking screens.

As an added bonus, Skarmory strongly dislikes boosted Thunder Punch and will not outspeed Toxicroak.

Toxicroak's most exploited weakness comes from EQ/Earth Power, but that can easily be avoided by switching in a poke that resists or is completely immune to ground attacks. It's also easy to get him back in due to Toxicroak's own useful resistances and immunities.
 
Well, I pretty much doubt that Toxicroak will see OU usage.

Honestly, people will not use it with Lucario around. Lucario is arguably superior in every way. More attack, more speed, and a better movepool(Close Combat, mostly). Not to mention Lucarios excellent Special attack which makes him rather unpredictable.
 
I'm not disputing the fact that Lucario is a great sweeper, that's not what this is about. Lucario shares one weakness and one STAB, but they are used as sweepers in different ways.

The point I'm making is simply that Toxicroak is viable as a physical sweeper in the OU environment an dhow it can be used successfully.
 
But why would anyone use toxicroak when Lucario can do this job better with CC/SD/crunch, ice punch, or Stone Edge/ Extremespeed
 
DFang said:
Toxicroak is a very quirky pokemon that works very well in UU and even Ubers, but is often overlooked in the OU and BL tiers. Platinum has brought him a few new tricks, and I believe one of those in particular makes him very viable in OU battles: Thunder Punch.

I've been using this setup:

Adamant (Life Orb) 252 Att, 252 Spd, 6 Def
Dry Skin
-Thunder Punch
-Sucker Punch
-Brick Break
-Swords Dance

This Toxicroak completely walls Azumarril and Vaporeon while hitting back with boosted SE hits. It is immune to toxic and toxic spikes, absorbs water attacks to refill HP. Also resists Stealth Rock. This guy will outspeed Gyarados without any boosts or a +Spd nature and OHKOs when brought in after the Intimidate drop.

Swords dance on the switch. Sucker Punch for the priority attack. Brick Break for accurate STAB and for breaking screens.

As an added bonus, Skarmory strongly dislikes boosted Thunder Punch and will not outspeed Toxicroak.

Toxicroak's most exploited weakness comes from EQ/Earth Power, but that can easily be avoided by switching in a poke that resists or is completely immune to ground attacks. It's also easy to get him back in due to Toxicroak's own useful resistances and immunities.
Click to expand...
Ive always thought that Toxicroak deserved a chance...even though Lucario is, in most cases, superior. You have dry skin on a Life Orb Croak but no rain dance in the set, so I assume you have rain dance support from another team mate. If you dont and you just use Dry Skin to absorb water attacks them maybe change Croaks item to a Focus Sash or an Expert Belt. Life Orb seriously hurts Croaks longevity (...if you can call it that) when not healed by the rain. I suggest not to use Croak in the higher tiers. Yeah, he could benifit from kyogers drizzle...but so could Lumineon. UU is this frogs pond.
 
Personally, I use him because I find it incredibly boring when every single team becomes: Salamence, Blissey, Lucario, Celebi, Bronzong, Zapdos.

Not only is it boring, but it becomes increasingly predictable. Using other viable pokemon that trainers are unfamiliar with in battle gives you another important advantage in unpredictability.

If I know you have a SDLuke on your team, I also know ways to go about countering it. When you bring in an unfamiliar pokemon you are given an immediate, even if fleeting, advantage.

While rain support is always a plus, it's not necessary unless you have a subpunching set and then you'd probably attached black sludge/wet rock as well. Focus sash can work just fine and I actually do use it sometimes, but sand and hail are pretty common in OU and there's always the chance that when you switch in to what you think is a water attack your opponent predicts that and your sash is broken. Life orb is there to hit that much harder while you can (yes, works better in rain) or expert belt/muscle band works almost as well.
 
Toxicroak has *some* advantages over Lucario, the most obvious being Water Absorb. Personally, I like to use Toxicroak as a Subpuncher... you switch into Water types with impunity, and start your reign of terror. Between Sucker Punch, Ice Punch and Focus Punch very few pokemon can switch in safe.
 
DFang said:
Personally, I use him because I find it incredibly boring when every single team becomes: Salamence, Blissey, Lucario, Celebi, Bronzong, Zapdos.

Not only is it boring, but it becomes increasingly predictable. Using other viable pokemon that trainers are unfamiliar with in battle gives you another important advantage in unpredictability.

If I know you have a SDLuke on your team, I also know ways to go about countering it. When you bring in an unfamiliar pokemon you are given an immediate, even if fleeting, advantage.

While rain support is always a plus, it's not necessary unless you have a subpunching set and then you'd probably attached black sludge/wet rock as well. Focus sash can work just fine and I actually do use it sometimes, but sand and hail are pretty common in OU and there's always the chance that when you switch in to what you think is a water attack your opponent predicts that and your sash is broken. Life orb is there to hit that much harder while you can (yes, works better in rain) or expert belt/muscle band works almost as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah...It really is too bad with all the sandstreams running around it makes a SD sweep with a frail poke like Toxicroak or Weavile pretty darn difficult to pull off. These guys need their sashes to survive the fierce attacks of most OU pokes in order to get in even a single swords dance. Its very unfortunate that the OU and Uber tier is so centralized, but you cant argue with the results...Lucario/Blissy/Salamence/Celebi/Bronzong/Zapdos teams just..work well. =/
 
OK I am back... here is the set / ev spread I was using

Toxicroak @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Adamant nature
120 HP / 144 Atk / 244 SpD

Substitute
Focus Punch
Sucker Punch / Poison Jab
Ice Punch

The EVs make it so that even the strongest Ice Beams you will face will not break your Substitute. You still have 312 attack to work with. Water types are set up fodder, basically. Once you get that Substitute up, you can Focus Punch, or Sucker Punch faster Pokemon like Gengar. I put Life Orb as an option because switching into Surfs shouldn't be too hard, so you won't mind the recoil that much.

ATTENTION: Editted the EVs, as Vaporeon doesn't run 269 SpA anymore. Ice Beams can be survived. Since no water type runs this much Special Attack, now all of them can be easily beaten.
 
I say! Very sexy SubPunching Croak. Im seriously going to try this thing out seeing as my Rain Dance Toxicroak was mediocre at best. Im a little worried about Croaks speed tho. Would a Salac berry also work?
 
Focus Punch has a negative priority, and sucker punch has positive priority. I wouldn't run Salac on a set like this. However, you could put Swords Dance over something, and use Cross Chop over Focus Punch, and set up on waters anyways.
 
In theory, Croak sounds like he could seriously throw down...But hes so situational. Regardless, your subpunch croak sounds like it would be fun to use in the lower rounds of ingame BT singles (which I love for some reason), so im gonna try it! Thanks for caring enough to make this excellent set and spread, skiddle. Props! =)
 
This sounds a bit like the Pinsir/Heracross argument, and in that thread the conclusion was that they did not, as in RSE, do almost exactly the same thing, but had now moved to different things, and were both great pokemon in their own right.

The same applies to Luke/Croak. They can both use special moves, Lucario having a better Sp. Atk and Toxicroak having Nasty Plot, and they can both use physical moves. Toxicroak seems a bit more gimmicky than Lucario in a way, since it relies more on luck and prediction to beat opponents.
 
i think the most dangerous croak is the Lifeorb Nasty plotter with rain support i used to run thru teams with one i'd forgot the ev spread but being able to heal off lifeorb damage with rain is really hot
 
I'm breeding SD Toxicroak right now, except I'm going for Jolly.

Adamant would be better for the FP/SP set, because you don't rely on speed at all for that.
 
Toxicroak's biggest advantage over Lucario isn't it's stats or movepool, but it's typing, basically. Dry Skin gives it a water immunity, and toxicroak resists fighting, while lucario is weak to it.

The Nasty Plot croak is pretty wicked actually. I use it in UU.
 
This guy could really use a tadpole prevo to give him access to water attacks, can you imagine the damage he could do in the rain then?
 
Toxicroak is cool, but the only real advantage that it has over Lucario is the Dry Skin ability. This is the major reason for its use in Ubers. In OU, however, this advantage is really negligible, as most will prefer to run Anticipation so fire doesn't do the extra damage. Lucario outclasses Toxicroak, and while it does, Toxicroak usage will continue to remain low.
 
Nasty Plot Toxicroak is just as nasty as Plot ape. Anyone ever try this?

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Dry Skin
Naive
EVs: 36 Atk / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
*Sludge Bomb
*Hidden Power Water / Hidden Power Fire
*Nasty Plot
*Cross Chop / Vacuum Wave

HP Water if your using Rain support (highly recommnded). After a plot, you OHKO Skarmory and Forretress with either hidden power (Water just needs Rain to get the OHKO). Even without rain, you OHKO Gliscor. The EVs outspeed Mamoswine, and HP Water also 2HKOs Bronzong in the Rain after a plot. Oh yeah, Cross Chop does 93% minimum to Blissey, but Vacuum Wave is cool priority.
 
lucario does swords dance much much better, but toxicroak can nasty plot which is what i use in uu. except with focus blast,dark pulse,hp ice for good coverage unlike posion attacks.
 
Toxicroak would actually be excellent on any Rain team, setting up on Vaporeon and Psychic-less Celebi, common obstacles for any rain team, and Poison Jabbing them both to death. Can also be pretty anti-rain, resisting nearly all of Kabutops attacks (Waterfall, Stone Edge, X-Scissor, and Brick Break are all resisted, and I doubt a Swords Danced Stone Edge would KO with modest HP investment) and absorbing water attacks, wasting a valuable turn of rain.
 
Toxicroak its good, just that other fightings outclass him. for nasty plotting, he's inferior to Infernape, for SDing, Lucario as stormtrooper said, for CB, Heracross. And Poison is a horrible typing, as shown by X-Act's stats, the worse offensive typing.

But he's great in UU, where Rain Dance is much more common to make use of Dry Skin, one of his greatest assets.
 
And the discussion threads of stupid Poison types come flooding in.

Not really, Toxicroak's only downfall is his double weakness to Psychic and his regular weakness to Ground, that and his mediocre speed.

But really, just use Lucario. If you feel an urge to use two-legged frogs in OU, use it for the Water immunity and run a more defensive set focused on team support.
 
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