I'm disappointed in you guys.

Big Bayou

Big Bayou

This forum needs more doubles teams. :-(

Here is my 2v2 Stadium Mode squad I made for PBR online matches. It's been evolving for about a year and about as close to finished as it's ever going to get, so I want to hear what you guys think.

I politely ask that any critiques come from people that
A. know what "Stadium Mode" entails
B. have doubles experience


The Leads

Bronzong (Levitate) @ Macho Brace

bronzong.png

252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SpDef
Brave

Trick Room
Hypnosis
Gyro Ball
Explosion

Togekiss (Serene Grace) @ Lum Berry

togekiss.png

252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Sassy

Follow Me
Air Slash
Encore
Protect

It is nearly impossible to stop these two. Follow Me from Togekiss blocks any Taunts, Fake Outs, Status, STAB Fire Blasts, and anything else that might prevent Trick Room from going up.

Not even Imprison teams or opposing Trick Roomers trying to cancel out my setup pose a significant threat. They're not too hard to spot at all; in most cases they will be slower (Dusknoir, Bronzong) which makes it easy for Togekiss to lock them on turn two with Encore. If the enemy is faster, Togekiss Encores the first turn instead.

The most common reaction to Trick Room teams is Substitute/Protect stalling. These guys (and later Machamp) mess that strategy up badly with Encore.

In my experience, most people expect Bronzong to blow up right after setting up Trick Room and choose to use Protect and/or switch to a Ghost or Steel type to take the Explosion. Bad move- Hypnosis hits incoming resisters and all Protects are promptly Encored. Or explode the turn after once their Protects are blown. Or I could switch to Rhyperior. Or Machamp. :naughty:

Yeah, their coverage is terrible, but Gyro Ball+Macho Brace+Brave+STAB=impressive damage, and Togekiss also can hold its own with Air Slash (60% STAB). The job of really plowing through stuff is taken care of by...


The Muscle

Machamp (No Guard) @ Expert Belt

machamp.png

252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Brave

Dynamicpunch
Ice Punch
Stone Edge
Encore

No Guard Machamp can't punch through Protects on PBR for some reason, but when battling via Wifi this guy is the ultimate anti-Staller. Dynamicpunch for power and confusion, Ice Punch for Dragons, Stone Edge for good coverage, and Encore to be a bitch. The confusion from Dynamicpunch helps sometimes when Trick Room wears out during the final stretches of a battle and I need to get up another TR or finish off an opponent, but it's not something to be relied upon.


Rhyperior (Solid Rock) @ Life Orb
rhype.png

252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Brave

Earthquake
Protect
Stone Edge
Megahorn

While Lightningrod is certainly an attractive option, I opted for Solid Rock as it makes a big difference when going toe-to-toe with other physical powerhouses like Metagross or Infernape. Earthquake is nice to have as both Togekiss and Bronzong are immune to Ground, and Megahorn and Stone Edge put out obscene damage with Rhyperior's huge Attack and Life Orb. I like pairing him up with Togekiss, as his quadruple weaknesses can be a pain and Follow Me helps out if something important like Megahorn or Stone Edge misses.


The Utility

Cacturne (Sand Veil) @ Focus Sash
cact.png

252 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 4 HP
Quiet

Grass Knot
Sucker Punch
Counter
Focus Blast/Dark Pulse/Protect (Still working this out)

Though my guys don't have much of a problem with Intimidate teams (Gyarados, Arcanine, Salamence and Staraptor die to Stone Edge, and the odd Tauros gets crushed by Machamp), I still like to use a Pokemon capable of dishing out special attacks. Sometimes my prediction skills lapse and the battle drags on for too long- Trick Room drops before I am in a secure position to win. That's where Cacturne comes in; the guy works well even without speed on his side. Focus Sash still works during a sandstorm (Snow Warning sucks, my Pokemon absolutely destroy hail teams) which means that I can score surprise kills especially well. My team's slight water weakness is remedied by Cacturne's powerful Grass Knot, and STAB Sucker Punch coming from base 115 Atk messes things up too. It's hard to outpredict that move in doubles; even if the enemy chooses a non-attacking move, Cacturne's partner is free to act unmolested, and Sucker Punch works against enemies that aren't even targeting Cacturne.

Hariyama (Guts) @ Toxic Orb
hari.png

252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpDef
Brave

Fake Out
Stone Edge
Close Combat
Protect

I remember during the first few months of PBR when virtually every other Japanese kid fronted a Trick Room team that opened with this exact Hariyama and a Bronzong. Anyone with half a brain can Taunt their way to victory against that, but there are situations where using Hariyama for the starting combo has its advantages over choosing Togekiss. Those Uber teams with Choice Specs Kyogre that love to Water Spout all over my guys are foiled by Fake Out, as are any equally retarded squads using Darkrai. Most Ubers are subsequently taken care of by a Gutsed, STABed Close Combat. Hariyama is also my only protection against the ever-prevalent Eruption Typhlosion starter, which can 1HKO Bronzong before it can get Trick Room up (assuming Choice Specs, Helping Hand or Sunny Day).

There you have it. Rate away!
 
Big Bayou said:
Machamp (No Guard) @ Expert Belt

machamp.png

252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Brave

Dynamicpunch
Ice Punch
Stone Edge
Encore
Click to expand...
I run a set like this, but Guts + Toxic Orb + Close Combat is what makes it really powerful. I've run ThunderPunch over Encore, though. Either way, I recommend Guts. It's insane the damage you can do.
 
I totally love these sprites! Where did you get them? Anyways, I agree that you should use CC and Guts over Dynamicpunch. Ever since Machamp got Dynamicpunch everyone forgot he learned anything else...
 
Congratulations. You've refined the standard Doubles Trick Room team to near perfection. I like Encore on Machamp and Togekiss. Cacturne is a nice touch. I guess I don't have much else to say about this team. It sure looks effective. It will definitely be a benchmark team that I'll keep in mind when designing my own doubles teams.
 
Some clarification on why I use No Guard over Guts on Machamp.

I used to have a Guts/Facade Ursaring on this team. The one turn of setup was becoming a liability, especially as Ursaring didn't have the resists to switch in scot-free in most cases and was instead forced to use Protect or situationally pick something off with an unboosted Facade or Shadow Claw. Trick Room lasts 5 turns, and a competent team can and will stall you out if you don't take them out ASAP. Also, "more power" isn't really a factor in 2v2 as much as it is in singles; many things die in one SE hit anyway and raw Attack means nothing when your opponent uses Protect.

In singles, you can just switch out with relatively few repercussions if a Pokemon gets confused. In doubles, switching leaves you open for attack and wastes a precious turn, making Dynamicpunch superior to Cross Chop in my opinion. 100% accuracy is a great asset as well, because missing a key attack in a 2v2, especially for a Trick Room, can cost you the game much more easily than in singles.

Like I mentioned earlier, Protect stalling and switching to resists are the most effective counter to this team. No Guard hits through Protect and confuses incoming resist Pokemon, lowering their chances of using Protect to 50% OR stripping them of any Lum berries that might stand in the way of Bronzong's Hypnosis.
 
Great sprites, seem to be handmade so I am guessing you drew these? Anyway it seems like a good team however you only have 1 trick roomer which may hurt you. If you want to try something a bit more risky you can add in Dusknoir for trick room and give it gravity to ensure perfect acc for rhyperior. 2 fighting types doing the same thing seems a bit redundant to me and I think maybe you should have something like Lapras with Blizzard and Thunder and Hydro Pump to abuse Gravity and make it slow and bulky to abuse trick room. Dusknoir can go over cacturne maybe?

Good team very innovative.
 
KinglerDude24 said:
Great sprites, seem to be handmade so I am guessing you drew these? Anyway it seems like a good team however you only have 1 trick roomer which may hurt you. If you want to try something a bit more risky you can add in Dusknoir for trick room and give it gravity to ensure perfect acc for rhyperior. 2 fighting types doing the same thing seems a bit redundant to me and I think maybe you should have something like Lapras with Blizzard and Thunder and Hydro Pump to abuse Gravity and make it slow and bulky to abuse trick room. Dusknoir can go over cacturne maybe?

Good team very innovative.
Click to expand...

This guy has the right idea. The Trick Room teams I've seen have at least 2 or 3 Trick Room users, if not 3.

I would reccomend Slowbro/king somewhere in here. Even Cresselia could work. And if you're not too worried about using UU Pokemon, Hypno is a great Trick Room user.

Other then that this team looks good. If you need ideas for other Trick Room users, I've heard Torterra is good. Blissey has also been known to work on a Trick Room team, but I doubt you'll need it.
 
Overall a great team, but there is a major weakness: only one of your pokémon can set-up trick room, and every single poké of your team is very slow (yes, good thing in a TR team, but not with only bronzong to set it).
Dusknoir would be great on your team ( he also covers the fighting immunity spot , ands your team is severely hurt by close combat CB heracross or any other strong fighter, cause you have 2 weaknes and no resistance) dusknoir can fill these 2 roles, so i would take cacturne out (sadly, some cool points to D: )
You can also use slowbro, who also give to you some special attacking force.

So, this is my rate, and i'm also working on a double battle team :toast:

Edit: you can also use zapdos for the fighting resistance and to add some speed to your team, you know, a TR team don't need to be full of slow pokés,cause he can save you when TR isn't active.
 
Actually if he goes with the idea of Gravity though he can use Garchomp with Dragon Rush for some back-up speed if TR is not up (And hopefully Gravity will be)

Or you can go with something that has hypnosis or low acc moves that has decent speed (Ninetails with Fire Blast and Hypnosis anyone)
 
Actually it does. That is why some people use Flame Orb Swellow or Ursaring with guts; Prevent status and get that attack boost.
 
First of all, I love the sprites and your team :). Second, I'm quite interested in the doubles metagame, and especially trick room teams. I have used the Bulky Follow me Togekiss and Bronzong before and it works great, but I also love using Smeargle, even though it's risky, with a mini Obi Mode strategy, sort of like what the 13 and over Japanese nationals winner used. Lastly, I would actually not listen to the advise about having more than 1 trick roomer. Because it's 4v.4, you only need 1 trick roomer. Another one would take up a precious slot on your team. I think Snorlax would do well on here, maybe instead of Haryama/Cacturne. It's bulky, has a good attack stat, perfect for trick room, and can boom. But overall, your team is great and hey, if it Works, no need to make any big changes.
 
I think you guys are really underestimating how long 5 turns is in 2v2.. especially Stadium mode. Having Bronzong as his only Trick Room user is perfectly acceptable and I'd personally keep it that way. Double battles are way faster paced than singles and the obvious goal of this team is to win swiftly.

Anyway, the only thing I see that could be a problem is rival fighting pokemon but it's only an issue in specific situations. Obviously you're in bad shape if you don't have a clear advantage after 5 turns but that's something you're well aware of I'm sure. I wish I had more to add but your team covers a lot of the threats appropriately enough and you even have an alternate starter for anything Togekiss/Bronzong are bound to have issues with. Five star thread and I rated it as such.
 
Carl said:
I think you guys are really underestimating how long 5 turns is in 2v2.. especially Stadium mode. Having Bronzong as his only Trick Room user is perfectly acceptable and I'd personally keep it that way. Double battles are way faster paced than singles and the obvious goal of this team is to win swiftly.

Anyway, the only thing I see that could be a problem is rival fighting pokemon but it's only an issue in specific situations. Obviously you're in bad shape if you don't have a clear advantage after 5 turns but that's something you're well aware of I'm sure. I wish I had more to add but your team covers a lot of the threats appropriately enough and you even have an alternate starter for anything Togekiss/Bronzong are bound to have issues with. Five star thread and I rated it as such.
Click to expand...

Quoting this because that's everything I was going to say and more.

People need to stop rating this like a standard 6v6 singles team. 5 turns of Trick Room in a doubles stadium battle is a looooong time.

You said yourself Big Bayou, that this team is as close to being finished as it will get, there's really nothing you should change about it in my opinon.

Rated 5 stars because of the great team, and the awesome sprites.
 
Damn, Bayou! When I first rated this team, I did not even see that you were the poster. No wonder this team looks so very familiar.

Like Bayou said, this team is a year in the making, and it shows. I battled it on back when it was new (and had an Ursaring) and it was a beast then. It looks even more frightening now. In my earlier post, I was feeling kind of dismissive because I thought this team was just a well-refined knock off, but this is one of the original teams that other Trick Room teams steal from.

Again, nice job, Bayou. Five star rating from me as well. Hopefully we'll meet up again on PBR soon.

EDIT: Also, don't be disappointed with the number of doubles teams in this forum. It's actually been increasing recently.
 
Another obligatory awesome sprite post.

I think your bronzong needs some defensive fine tuning; you can release the burden of togekiss slightly if you pump it up with some defensive EVs, being able to take hits from faster foes could help.

Excellent team, bb.
 
Probably a matter of preference, but have you ever considered Marowak over Rhyperior? If I'm not mistaken, Marowak gets insane attack with Thick Club which, I think is almost as much as Rhyperior if I have done my calculations right, and gets the boost without Life Orb's 10% penalty. Also, Marowak is slightly faster than Rhyperior, but not by a large amount. Moveset wise, Marowak have Bonemerang, which won't force you to Protect or use a Flier like Earthquake would and won't have its Base Power lowerd to 75% since it is not a spread attack. I'm not sure on all this, though, but I think it's worth trying out if you haven't already.

All in all, this is a really nice team. I'd like to battle it sometime, if I could.
 
An awesome big bayou thread with awesome sprites and an awesome team!

It's really too bad shoddy doesn't support double battling...

The pokemon with the awesomest sprite of them all is Hariyama, but that is also the one pokemon that seems out of place here. But maybe that's just me.
 
posting to say that this thread makes me really, really want to consider 2v2 in the battle tower, which would be a monumental accomplishment for you since nothing has yet motivated me enough to care about 2v2 in any facet ever (TRE's 414-win streak in BT Doubles kind of grabbed my attention), or even care about anything relating to playing pokemon (Shoddy, Wifi) other than my singles BT exploits
 
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