In-Game Tier List Discussion

[The Cicada]

I still think Dweblle and possibly Sewadle deserve high.

Leavanny is da best Physical attacking grass type i ever used. (if i hear any1 complain bout Leaf Blade and X-Scissor coming the 30's i'll make you regret it).

And Dwebble rapes basically all boss battles except the 5th gym, Marshal, and N (cant beat N cuz he gots lots of priotiy).

 

[shadowbone66]

What? Munna on the bottom? Nowai. It is a frickin TANK. A bit from a lvl 27 Mightyena(yes, I use DW pokemon in mai playthru :3) against Bianca's Musharna did under 1/3 of damage. AND it had Defense Curl. AND Hypnosis. AND Lucky Chant. Munna is definitely sturdy enough to be high tier ingame.

 

[farranpoison]

What? Munna on the bottom? Nowai. It is a frickin TANK. A bit from a lvl 27 Mightyena(yes, I use DW pokemon in mai playthru :3) against Bianca's Musharna did under 1/3 of damage. AND it had Defense Curl. AND Hypnosis. AND Lucky Chant. Munna is definitely sturdy enough to be high tier ingame.

Munna's low for the reason that it only gets one attacking type (Psychic) for the majority of the game and learns Psychic at a late level as Munna, which would be incredibly weak compared to the other high level mons you encounter. Course, you could always evolve Munna early, but then you'd miss out on Psychic and have terrible Psybeam instead.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

Not to mention, the crapload of mons earlygame that has Bite does not help its case either. It's only better than Woobat, period.

 

[The Cicada]

Quick question on Durant. Shouldn't it be in low? i never tested it before, but my instincts tell me it's low material. You get it like right before the E4, and i dount it does much good there.


Just my assumptions.

 

[spweasel]

Quick question on Durant. Shouldn't it be in low? i never tested it before, but my instincts tell me it's low material. You get it like right before the E4, and i dount it does much good there.


Just my assumptions.

Durant can wall nearly everything in the League (either through its amazing Defense or long list of resistances), and it gets great coverage to go with those spectacular Attack and Speed stats. In particular, he makes a mockery of Marshal, who is arguably the hardest fight in the game. An X-Attack or two and an X-Speed (optional if you are high enough leveled) will let you sweep Ghetsis with him - Cofagrigus kills him far too slowly to stop you. Even though you get him immediately before the Elite 4, he can be a godsend for the final battles, which is enough to push him into Mid territory.

 

[Serious_Business]

How a Pokemon affects the amount of time it takes you to do everything you want in the game is an extremely good metric for its tiering. For example, take Golett - he's actually pretty good given enough time, and is indeed one of the best Marshal counters available. But he takes so long to get to the point where he's good enough to be worthwhile that he is Low Tiered.

Actually, Golett was surprisingly easy to train up, or at least catch up. Iron Fist Shadow Punch tears through all the Goletts in the tower, and inside the tower is a ton of Plasma Grunts who spam out Watchogs who can't actually hit him. I think Golett actually soloed the entire tower for me. The Krokoroks love using Swagger, and Magnitude and Dynamicpunch (Brick Break if you don't trust DP) can get the job done.

I still think he should be Low, Low-Mid at the highest. Golurk is just a bit too slow and fragile. Hits hard, and would probably be amazing with Rock Polish, but that's only post-E4. But getting him caught up wasn't an issue at all, he just died a bit too much for me.

 

[Vladimir]

If Unfeazants and co. 2HKO Joltik, then it shouldn't be difficult to go through the Gym provided you have the potions on you.

How the hell are you going to do that, r-tard? If a pokemon outspeeds and beats Joltik in two turns, and you waste one of them healing, you don't have time to attack it b4 it kills you... Note that Joltik needs multiple Electrowebs to beat any pokemon in that gym.

Petilil is just like Joltik, great after evolution, but a pain to train for 10 lvls (WAY too slow). After it evolved however, i never found myself unable to OHKO stuff. Also Giga Drain + Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance + HPGround (the igt) makes it the best pokemon in the game against Shauntal.

@TheCicada: Durant OHKOs nearly every pokemon trainers in the Victory Road use, and sweeps through Grimsley, Caitlin, Marshal, N with Zekrom, and Ghetsis (the last two only if you get one with a speed boosting nature). It's an amazing late-game addition.

 

[The Cicada]

How the hell are you going to do that, r-tard? If a pokemon outspeeds and beats Joltik in two turns, and you waste one of them healing, you don't have time to attack it b4 it kills you... Note that Joltik needs multiple Electrowebs to beat any pokemon in that gym.

Petilil is just like Joltik, great after evolution, but a pain to train for 10 lvls (WAY too slow). After it evolved however, i never found myself unable to OHKO stuff. Also Giga Drain + Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance + HPGround (the igt) makes it the best pokemon in the game against Shauntal.

@TheCicada: Durant OHKOs nearly every pokemon trainers in the Victory Road use, and sweeps through Grimsley, Caitlin, Marshal, N with Zekrom, and Ghetsis (the last two only if you get one with a speed boosting nature). It's an amazing late-game addition.

About Joltik: Lol. You do realize that Skyla's Pokemon basically never attack right? Her Swoobat just Spams Amnesia, and Joltik still kills it before it gets enough Amnesia boosts. Swanna is 4x weak to Electric, and even if it would somehow live, it will just use Aqua Ring. And Unfeazant use Razor Wind, which it wont live long enough for, lol.


On Durant: I see. Makes sense.

 

[sax king]

Actually, while we're on the subject of Durant, how does it fare against special attackers? Because even though it has resistances, its special defense is shit awful.

 

[spweasel]

Actually, while we're on the subject of Durant, how does it fare against special attackers? Because even though it has resistances, its special defense is shit awful.

Neutral Special attacks will sting more than a little, to the point where a OHKO from stuff like Sigilyph's Air Slash or Reunculus' Thnuder looks like a serious concern. If you can get OHKOs on them, though, you'll be fine (unfortunately, Sigilyph isn't weak to X-Scissor, making your life harder).

Resisted Specials shouldn't be a serious concern, even with that mediocre SpD and HP.

When I get that far, I'll make sure to test Durant against the entire League. I was planning to pick one up for Marshal anyways.

Edit: I'm thinking of trying X-Scissor, Crunch, Iron Head, and Aerial Ace for the Elite 4 (hits a weakness on everything but Lolsharp), and then switching Aerial Ace for Dig for N. Sound like a plan?

 

[Layell]

You don't have to set up with Petilil it's really only for gym or teams of 4 or more. Once you set up with growth or quiver dance nothing can even touch you, if something that can threaten you does pop up you'll be a full health with giga drain and can probably go first and dent them.

The bug gym is a joke with Petilil, struggle bug does nothing. Soloing the electric gym isn't feasible, but it can still act as support.

 

[Rezileen]

I agree with the decision of moving Petilil down a tier, but it still deserves to be in mid. The thing with Petilil is that it really doesn't have much opportunity to shine as say Darumakka or Scraggy. Once you get it, it does level up pretty fast thanks to all the Basculin trainers that it sweeps with Magical Leaf. However, those Basculin trainers are basically the only trainers you'll be using Petilil in besides maybe the Team Plasma battles after you first get it.

It does become a powerhouse once you evolve it with Giga Drain coming off that special attack. In the battles where Giga Drain will hit neutral or super effective damage, Liligant will most likely OHKO the opponent without even needing to Quiver Dance. The issue though is that Giga Drain is not very effective against most of the Pokemon you'll be facing (eg: route after Driftveil, Chargestone Cave, route after Mistralton, Celestrial Tower, etc...). What Petilil excels in though is helping you capture Pokemon with its awesome, early Sleep Powder. Overall, it hits harder and provides more utility than most of the other Pokemon in mid-tier, but does sit on the sidelines too much to be in high.

Keep in mind I have a rather biased view. I went through the game rotating around 10 Pokemon, of which included powerhouses like Archen, Darumakka, Scraggy, etc. If I had used a party of only 5 or 6, Liligant probably would've seen more use.

 

[Tortferngatr]

You people aren't getting it are you?

PETILIL NEEDS LITTLE TO NO SETUP! If it needs to set up, it is ridiculously easy. Magical Leaf is a pretty strong attack at that point, and Sleep Powder helps with support, and the trainers at Route 4/Resort Desert cater to Petilil's needs as well! Upper Mid or High, definitely.

Joltik is just fine against Skyla. Nothing more than OK. Zebstrika does it better, Excadrill does it better, etc. Charge Beam is weak. Joltik has weak Special Attack. This thing needs set up. Upper Mid or Mid.

As Galvantula, however, it's a clean sweep against Skyla, even only using Charge Beam. You can powergrind it against the gym, and once it evolves it's eating everyone's faces.

 

[TheSubwayMaster]

As Galvantula, however, it's a clean sweep against Skyla, even only using Charge Beam. You can powergrind it against the gym, and once it evolves it's eating everyone's faces.

Explain to me how it wins against the gym. Acro from anything hits for over 1/2 damage. Charge Beam is not even a 3HKO at the start, then becomes only a 2HKO, and they are faster.

 

[breh]

dear god, please stop saying "r-tard"; you sound like an imbecile with this idiotic euphemism for "imbecile"

on a side note, I can back golurk/lett as well; as soon as you catch it, make a quick detour, teach it shadow punch, then kill a few goletts in the tower (they give attack evs and help raise your level... they also can't hit you, iirc). After that it evolved in the tower off of plasma grunts.

Plus, fly is cool.

 

[Rezileen]

Oh the subject of Joltik, if you're relying on Charge Beam to sweep Mistralton gym, you're doing it wrong. Charge Beam with its average BP and Joltik's average special attack is not going to cut it. Instead, you want to use Volt Switch. Make Joltik the only Pokemon in your party, and there, you now have have a consistent 210 BP attack (or 420 BP against the Duckletts and Swannas) that should OHKO almost all the birds in the gym.

The only reason I could see for moving Joltik down is because, like Petilil, he has little opportunity to shine. After Mistralton, you're really not going to use electric attacks much unless you do the optional water routes. Bug attacks, maybe, but you also could have Scrafty or Krookodile on your team as well.

 

[sax king]

Agreeing with Breludicolo. Golurk is awesome. Why is it so low? It's bulky, powerful, and it has a great movepool. It's great for those who need the convenience of fly but don't want crappy pokemon like Unfezant or Swanna on the team. I found it easy to level up, seeing as pretty much everything on team plasma is weak to either ground or fighting, and with a lucky egg evolving into golurk wasn't difficult at all. Sure it's slow, but it has bulk and power to make up for it's speed. I'm not saying it's high tier because it comes so late, but I don't think low tier is correct.

 

[PokéMontage]

Wow, I'm sorry, but if Joltik and Petilil are going to be moved anywhere, they should definitely not move below upper-mid. The idea of them going lower is completely ridiculous.

Frankly, if you had trouble with Joltik, then you're doing it wrong. It was laughably easy to train, and contrary to what Vladamir said (who I'm beginning to doubt if he's ever actually used the thing) it destroyed the Flying gym on its own.

As for Petilil, I never had any trouble at all with her. I have Black, so I had the Modest Chlorophyll one, which I think is a decent trade-off. Plus she got the EXP bonus, so she was hardly difficult to train. Once she evolved, she was fantastic. Seriously, she was the one on my team that I worried the least about. She outsped and KO'ed tons of things with Giga Drain. If you face something a bit more difficult, you simply Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and then KO, recovering any lost HP in the process. That quick setup never slowed me down because it made it all the more easy to sweep the rest of the opponent's team, and you rarely had to waste time with Potions since she heals herself. She is SO easy to use that the lack of good coverage really doesn't matter because she kills everything anyway. Fast, bulky (thanks to Giga Drain), and strong.

tl;dr - Joltik and Petilil may not be as increbile as the other things on Top, but they are fantastic regardless. Upper-mid.

 

[Raikaria]

What? Munna on the bottom? Nowai. It is a frickin TANK. A bit from a lvl 27 Mightyena(yes, I use DW pokemon in mai playthru :3) against Bianca's Musharna did under 1/3 of damage. AND it had Defense Curl. AND Hypnosis. AND Lucky Chant. Munna is definitely sturdy enough to be high tier ingame.

Because there are a massive amount of Dark Types, and Munna's level-up movepool is Mono-Psychic?

Who cares if youre bulky. You're not gonna win when all you can do is sleep the foe.

Munna is also outclassed by all the other Psychics. Even Swoobat, because it actually gets type coverage.

Oh, and whoever is saying Lilligant needs to set up... no. While it might need to as Petilil [Mega Drain will probobly be your main attack, combined with Sleep Powder, and possibly Leech Seed], Lilligant needs no such thing.

If you evolve Petilil at Lv 26, which is what you should be aiming for, you wind up with this:

Base 110 Sp.Attack, hardly needs a set-up.
Base 90 speed, so you'll outspeed a large portion of the game.

70/75/75 defenses, which is not bad.

Sleep Powder AND Giga Drain, a BP 75 STAB which heals you.

Quiver Dance in two levels.

Hopefully a decent HP type. The IGT one in Black has Ground 40, which takes care of Steels and Poisions. Mine in-game had HP Grass <_<

You see, that's the beauty of Lilligant. It can outright OHKO loads of things, and, if need be, against trainers who have multiple types, or if needed to be used against something that resists Grass, it can just throw Sleep Powder, and set up to destroy everything.

The only thing that stops it is the Deerling line and Afrobulls who have Sap Sipper.

TL;DR:

Lilligant needs little to no setup, unlike every other Grass type.
Lilligant an muscle past resisters.
The only Grass-types who come close are SimiSage, who is pretty bad until Seed Bomb, and Deerling [If only due to Jump Kick]

 

[Redtype]

Hey, could we count Zorua on the list? While you can't capture it in-game, one of the NPCs in Castelia shows you a picture of Zorua, which makes it possible to find him on the GTS.

IMO if we count trade evolutions this one should go on the list as well.

 

[Raikaria]

It states no outside help, other than trade evolutions. Trading in a Zorua is outside help.

Not to mention its still an event pokemon, thus, the distribution is still small.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

How the hell are you going to do that, r-tard? If a pokemon outspeeds and beats Joltik in two turns, and you waste one of them healing, you don't have time to attack it b4 it kills you... Note that Joltik needs multiple Electrowebs to beat any pokemon in that gym.

Joltik has no problems 2HKO'ing Ducklett with Electroweb. And he still wins even if he is slower, since E-Web makes the enemy's speed 2/3 of its original value. Swoobat is ridiculously frail and only wins if he starts Amnesia-spamming instead of outright attacking, and you still have a neutral Bug Bite to work with as backup. Oh wait, I apologise. Route 7 has the X-Scissor TM, which has way better power than Bug Bite. Swoobat's 57 Attack is also unlikely to 2HKO Joltik, fyi. In fact,the only mon that Joltik should be having trouble with is Sigilyph.

(ignoring that it is entirely possible to OHKO Swanna with Volt Switch)

 

[Lou Cypher]

Small note about Liligant:
Something that on its own can completely sweep the hell out of Ghetsis should NOT fall below high. And we're talking LV48 Liligant here, not an overlevelled one.
Oh, and at 65 it swept Cynthia. Quiver Dance = god.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Though guess who ISN'T going to make it to Top or possibly Upper Mid? Petilil. Yes, this thing is going right back down the gutter where it came from. I am currently using it in my Black run (which means it's the EXP-boosted one), and to put it frankly its situation sucks. We have:

- No real time to train aside from on Plasma Grunt here and there.
- Can't really lead the party since it's slow as shit, which makes simple tasks like running away difficult.
- Bug-type Gym where it gets slaughtered.
- Desert which has Darumakka lying around. Seeing as Petilil is too slow, no time to really grind either.
- Electric-type Gym with Acrobatics flying rodents. You tell me the situation good sir.

It takes about the fucking Ground-type Gym before it hits "okay" status. Against some normal trainers and what not it can... sort of hold its own. Mega Drain is about a 3HKO and Magical Leaf means sacrificing one of your better moves for it. Giga Drain + Quiver Dance is also a mile stretch away, and its situation isn't arguably better since the next two Gyms have Super Effective moves on it and the final Gym having a bunch of Dragon-types. Now granted you can Sleep Powder -> Quiver Dance -> Sweep on some Pokemon, but Ice-type Gym for example has Frost Breath which cuts right through the SpD boost. I mean come on really?

QFT, When I used it (with Own Tempo and Petal Dance) it was garbage (slight exaggeration but it fell far behind expectations) for ther exact reasons stated above, notably, that you cant lead with it because it cant run away and thus dies all the time.