Metagame Inheritance

Pigeons

pidge pidge
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Gonna post my vote now since the results are already decided: Ban Chansey

By a 5-1 vote, Chansey is now banned from Inheritance. Tagging The Immortal to implement. Thanks to everyone who participated, feel free to discuss the post-Chansey meta below! Feel free to discuss potential future suspects as well, keep in mind we probably will give the meta at least a week to stabilize before other suspects are on the table.

On a different note, here's a set I've been having fun with lately:

:sm/marowak-alola:
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Fake Out

I think Protean Alowak is super splashable on offense right now. The main appeal this set has over other Protean users it that it resists two common forms of priority that offense sometimes struggles with: Triage Magearna's Draining Kiss and Extreme Speed from the likes of Mega Medicham or Mega Mawile. In all of the mentioned matchups Alowak can usually eat a hit and KO back, against Mega Medicham it doesn't even need to take a hit before KOing with Shadow Sneak. Fake Out + Shadow Sneak gives a lot of general revenge killing utility as well, and this threat can also put a lot of pressure on balance with its powerful attacks. Definitely a set worth trying!
 

Nakeeb

formerly DubFreaknakeeb
Here's a set I've been using since the last time Inheritance was up for ladder.


Celesteela @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 36 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Switcheroo

Steelworker banded Heavy Slam from a Celesteela will KO almost anything that doesn't resist this. I really enjoy this set because I can literally click Heavy Slam without care if I felt like it. If an annoying unaware user like Suicune comes in I could easily mess it up with Switcheroo. Earthquake is just there as a filler, hardly click it at times. This set also can be used as a spinner too which is pretty useful. I forgot what the 36 spe ivs did, I'll probably edit this post once I find out.
 
I would like to make a post concerning the unbanning of a certain Uber Pokemon:

Unban Blaziken. (Keep the mega banned though. That's a whole different story that should never be started.)

"But wait won't it just run Speed Boost again and wreck the meta?"

It can't, because Speed Boost is banned in this meta.

Which brings me to my main point: because there's no way for Blaziken to run Speed Boost anymore, it's super powerful sets cease to exist, and it has to use another donor to get something good. Unlike any other Pokemon in Ubers, Blaziken has only a modest stat distribution of 80/120/70/110/70/80, which is very similar to Infernape, (which is allowed) but exchanges speed for power. Really, this would mean Blaziken would be totally balanced for the meta.

"But what would we use it for?"

Here's some ideas for that:
Unfortunately, it's middling speed and low bulk make it only able to run two sets: Magnet Pull and Unburden. Here's the Magnet Pull one: (obviously from Golem-A)

Blaziken @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt

Blaziken may be slow, but it is just fast enough to outspeed all of the major Steel-types in Heatran, Celesteela, Magearna, and even a few niche ones like Skarmory and Scizor. Specs give Blaziken enough power to tear through them with an appropriate coverage move. Fire Blast and Focus Blast are the main STABS, Earth Power and Thunderbolt are backup for when Magearna and Celesteela respectively run Flash Fire. (Those two move THKO their respective targets)

Blaziken offers a nice 120 attack, so running a mixed set with Superpower, Earthquake, or Wild Charge is justifiable.

Now for the Unburden sets:

Blaziken @ a seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick / Close Combat
- Earthquake / Knock Off / Stone Edge
- Mach Punch


Blaziken @ a seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge / Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance

Pick your poison: Hitmonlee offers better coverage moves in Earthquake and Knock Off alongside Mach Punch, while Hawlucha gives things like Swords Dance. Both attempt to be a terrain Unburden sweeper to make up for Blaziken's lack of speed.

"But what about it's own movepool?"

Blaziken's ability is really crappy, which limits the amount of Pokemon who would want to inherit from it. However, it's movepool contains nice stuff. The key move included is Brave Bird, which is really nice to have alongside coverage like Earthquake and Stone Edge. It also offers different options too, including Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick, Quick Attack, Thunder Punch, and even Swords Dance. Only two Pokemon would ever consider running it's movepool, one of them being a big winner, and the other being able to run a niche set with it:

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Stone Edge
- High Jump Kick

Using Blaziken's movepool, Mega Aerodactyl gets to have STAB Tough Claws-boosted Brave Bird alongside a strong Stone Edge. Swords dance helps to walbreak easier.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Quick Attack

This can also get STAB Brave Bird alongside Earthquake. Quick Attack lets you revenge stuff while Flare Blitz is to make use of the ability.
(Remember that these are theoretical. They may not be the actual things that happen if Blaziken actually got unbanned.)

So that was a short analysis of things Blaziken could do and offer to other Pokemon. I believe Blaziken is weak enough to be balanced in this meta, but share your opinions! What else do you think Blaziken could do? Who else could make use of it's movepool? Maybe you have some counterpoints to why Blaziken should not be unbanned? Share them!
 
Fairly fun Rampardos set I've been messing around with


Rampardos @ Normal Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- High Jump Kick
 
Fairly fun Rampardos set I've been messing around with


Rampardos @ Normal Gem
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- High Jump Kick
Wouldn't it be better to use this with a seed an Tapu, with a coverage move (or set up) over fake out?
 
I'd like to share a couple of sets that put it a lot of work and I can sometimes win entire games with just one of these (namely Tornadus).


Tornadus  sprite from Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire
Here's a fun-filled Tornadus Therian set I've been running on practically all of my teams. It's super splashable, super hard to deal with, and also can sweep at any moment your oponent decides to send out something that likes status or can't break your substitute.

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Sleep Powder

Basically, send it out, and do what you want to do. This is actually just the 1v1 Vivillon set, sure, but it works so well on a mon with so much speed, bulk, and special attack (ok well it's not insane but it's pretty nice) that's walled by almost nothing in the tier. Almost no one mon can beat it, and thus you can easily take out a couple mons and put one to sleep by just sending it out. With only a 9% chance to miss hurricane and a 2.5% chance to miss sleep powder, nothing, and I mean nothing, is safe. After 2 quiver dances, (which is easy to get with the set) you actually destroy anything that's not Unaware, and even then, sleep it and have fun.
Registeel  sprite from X & Y
Another fun set I've been using- Prankster Registeel with encore.
ah cheese (Registeel) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Toxic
- Encore
- Roost

Obviously, this thing is pretty easy to counter, and thus proves that it's possible to beat set up without unaware. Obviously, this doesn't beat all set up mons instantly, but it works pretty dang well most of the time. Most things can't take it down in two hits, and thus you can toxic infestation to your heart's content.
 
Okay, so, I have another way to use Snorlax. Pretty good if I do say so myself, though you're free to give any feedback on it. I don't do this much, so some of you may see something I don't. Anyway...

200.gif

Snorlax @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Facade
- Protect

Pros:
+ Very, VERY tanky. Rarely ever goes out in a single hit.
+ Can't be status'd except for on the first turn it's out. And even if it is, that just means Facade hits harder, in most cases.
+ After a Coil or two, there aren't many pokemon who can dish out enough damage in enough time to beat this thing.
+ No seriously, it's probably gonna take some pretty hard hits to kill this thing reliably.

Cons:
- Can be checked with something like Megacham before it can set up.
-Can be set up on fairly easily (though depending on the setup and/or pokemon, it won't matter much. As I said, very tanky.)
- Obviously, useless against Ghosts and not very effective against Steel type pokemon. (if this is too much of a weakness, you can sacrifice either Protect or Facade for something else.)
-Can't damage Unaware pokemon too much. But they can't damage it either.
- Burn halving it's physical attack means that it needs a turn or two before it's actually going to hit hard.

Basically, throw it out, Coil like twice (usually) and try to sweep. Watch for strong fighting type moves, watch for Unaware pokemon, watch for Ghosts. Oh, and be smart with it. Besides that, have fun.
 
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Okay, so, I have another way to use Snorlax. Pretty good if I do say so myself, though you're free to give any feedback on it. I don't do this much, so some of you may see something I don't. Anyway...


Snorlax @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Facade
- Protect

Cons:
- Burn halving it's physical attack means that it needs a turn or two before it's actually going to hit hard.
Facade ignores the attack drop from burn, so it's only relevant if you replace Protect with a coverage move. Not that you have many options for coverage moves - Facade actually hits steel types harder than any coverage move when you're burned (140/2 = 70 for Facade after resistance, vs 60/2*2 = 60 for Bulldoze after burn attack drop and supereffectiveness). That basically leaves Brutal Swing and Toxic as your only options.
 
How well can Blissey replace Chansey? Of course there will be situations where Chansey would wall that Blissey can't, and I'm wondering how numerous these cases are, and if Blissey is sufficiently weaker to not be as broken as Chansey. I know for example that a specially defensive Blissey (much like Ubers sets that check Pogre and Xerneas) can avoid the 2HKO from LO sheer force Thunderus-T's focus blast.
 
How well can Blissey replace Chansey? Of course there will be situations where Chansey would wall that Blissey can't, and I'm wondering how numerous these cases are, and if Blissey is sufficiently weaker to not be as broken as Chansey. I know for example that a specially defensive Blissey (much like Ubers sets that check Pogre and Xerneas) can avoid the 2HKO from LO sheer force Thunderus-T's focus blast.
Blissey primarily cannot replace Chansey in the fact that it is 2HKO'd by weather breakers like Torkoal!Heatran and Politoed!Keldeo, which Chansey could do. It is also more harshly punished by physical attackers so the broken Sableye inheritors can't just Will-o-wisp a Koko and get away with it as easy as Chansey could.
 
Blissey primarily cannot replace Chansey in the fact that it is 2HKO'd by weather breakers like Torkoal!Heatran and Politoed!Keldeo, which Chansey could do. It is also more harshly punished by physical attackers so the broken Sableye inheritors can't just Will-o-wisp a Koko and get away with it as easy as Chansey could.
I'm assuming these Pokemon use choice specs? Otherwise they fail to break SpD Blissey.

Edit: hurdur, Torkoal gets shell smash. Still not sure about Politoed!Keldeo.
 
I'm assuming these Pokemon use choice specs? Otherwise they fail to break SpD Blissey.

Edit: hurdur, Torkoal gets shell smash. Still not sure about Politoed!Keldeo.
Shell Smash is banned, so these mons do use Choice Specs. Do note that Xurkitree!Koko and Chatot!MGarde also break now. I personally don't think this nerfs stall enough due to broken Sab inherits but it's a good start imo
 
I'm normally quite quiet, but i was playing on an unregistered alt (decided to register it for now)

and uhm, i faced mega rayquazza? in this (inheritance) gamemode..?

Dumb question, but, did i miss megas being implemented in this way or something?

edit: i have the link saved for further proof but i think the attachment is proof enough. trying to at least slightly try and hide my sets.

edit 2: better pictures
 

Attachments

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Live Chat Contributor
I'm normally quite quiet, but i was playing on an unregistered alt (decided to register it for now)
and uhm, i faced mega rayquazza? in this (inheritance) gamemode..?
Dumb question, but, did i miss megas being implemented in this way or something?
edit: i have the link saved for further proof but i think the attachment is proof enough. trying to at least slightly try and hide my sets.
edit 2: better pictures
The meta is currently very bugged out with an ongoing code change on PS. It likely won't be more than a day to get it fixed, but you may wish to avoid laddering until it is. Props for winning regardless, though!
 
Even though I have never played this meta before, I have lurked in the thread, and once Chansey got banned, I decided to finally create a team that outright lost to it and the rest of stall, a Spike-stacking HO team (my favorite kind of team).
:sm/azelf: :sm/garchomp: :sm/archeops: :sm/gengar: :sm/suicune: :sm/medicham-mega:
Link to the team: https://pokepast.es/d06ca8f93c9906e1

Azelf was chosen as my suicide lead because it could disrupt switch-ins with Protean from Greninja. It also can set two hazards at once and cripple walls with Taunt. Next came Garchomp + Pangoro, with Mold Breaker negating abilities like Unaware and Fur Coat that would otherwise trouble it. Dragonium Z provides a nuke that KO's most neutral pokes at +2, and Taunt is to disrupt those walls more. Archeops + Toucannon is next, and I chose Overheat to hit non-Flash Fire Steels like Celesteela, Magearna and Ferrothorn the hardest. It is also my main revenge killer, which is why it has Choice Scarf. Gengar + Nidoking is the next poke, and Sheer Force just makes me think of AAA, only this one has Stealth Rock for all the hazards. This can wreck almost any wall in existence barring special ones, and even they get chipped down by hazards. Suicune + Masquerain is next, yes i put Suicune on a HO team. This is to provide a late-game wincon with QD, and I chose Scald as my sole attack because the only poke I know of that is immune to Water in this meta is Mantine Lando-T (and that's not really common either), so it can slowly boost and sweep. Lastly Mega Medicham + Lucario is my final poke, and Swords Dance + Pure Power = wreckage. It even has Extreme Speed for other priority users, and Zen Headbutt was chosen over other moves to hit Ghosts, most notably Gengar.
 

aVocado

Mr. Worldwide
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How is Komala as a donor? comatose is a broken ability and it learns sd, eq, knock, iron head, sucker, superpower, even wood hammer.. has anyone tried playing around with it as a donor?
 
How is Komala as a donor? comatose is a broken ability and it learns sd, eq, knock, iron head, sucker, superpower, even wood hammer.. has anyone tried playing around with it as a donor?
Big ZU player here and I know the potential for Kom, but last round of Inheritance I just didn't see too much use of it as we have better overall SD donors that combo with more offensive abilities. Its that while immunity to status is nice, there are just more all around offensive abilities or combos with SD like Sceptile's Unburden, Breloom's spore + technician, Lucario's SD + Espeed... Kom is just okay and doesn't exceed in any big offensive combos.

Even on the defensive side theres better status immunity abilities like Poison Heal, Magic Bounce, Magic Guard, and even Misty Surge have better benefits or team synergies than Comatose alone. Things like Bulk Up + Wish or even spin also aren't anything unique or that worthwhile when users of the previous ability donors anyways. And considering you can't combo Comatose with Sleep Talk + Roar in here as well, there's just no need for it.
 

Osra

1v1 and I
is a Pre-Contributor
Hi uh, avid Inheritance player here. Just posting to perhaps see if Torkoal as a donor is overpowered?

As far as the VR goes, nothing really walls Specs Torkoal sets besides flash fires, drizzles with coverage resistances, and.... specially defensive Goodra?

Simply put, once a Torkoal set is safely in, something dies unless you have one of the things mentioned above. Even Sableye Chansey, when it was allowed, basically had to sacrifice half of its Softboiled PP in order to deal with it, since just walling it is nigh impossible.

I'm not entirely sure on what the council's intended direction for the meta is, regarding centralization vs creativity, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Torkoal as a donor is very centralizing.
 
Hi uh, avid Inheritance player here. Just posting to perhaps see if Torkoal as a donor is overpowered?

As far as the VR goes, nothing really walls Specs Torkoal sets besides flash fires, drizzles with coverage resistances, and.... specially defensive Goodra?

Simply put, once a Torkoal set is safely in, something dies unless you have one of the things mentioned above. Even Sableye Chansey, when it was allowed, basically had to sacrifice half of its Softboiled PP in order to deal with it, since just walling it is nigh impossible.

I'm not entirely sure on what the council's intended direction for the meta is, regarding centralization vs creativity, but I feel pretty confident in saying that Torkoal as a donor is very centralizing.
Part of a fundamental issue in Inheritance is how switchins to certain Pokemon are extremely difficult to afford. Torkoal donors main issues lie inside its incapability to outrun a large portion of the metagame and Heatrans irritating 4x weakness to Ground making it an unsuitable switchin sometimes. However, this issue goes beyond Torkoal and resides in Pokemon like Mega Medicham, Mega Mawile, and even Tapu Koko to some extent because their sheer power is so great that it becomes very difficult to wall them without a specific answer, which these three can also completely turn on their heads with slightly different sets (see: Infernape!Megacham, Ursaring!Tapu Koko).

I figured that the solution to this issue would be to run special tanks as weather answers as well. For example, Goodra and Latias are capable of running RegenVest sets that take care of these weather breakers quite nicely. Choice Banded Arcanine!Snorlax is also a very nice role compressor that's capable of taking two hits at worst, often three from Specs Heatran due to phenomenal Special bulk and Flash Fire. As far as alternative resists go, sometimes it might be needed that ideas go back to how it was in BW where weather playstyles work considerably well - I know for one I've been utilizing Pelipper!Gyarados to try and check both sides of the spectrum in a single slot and it works somewhat but it only really works nicely on balances.

TL;DR counterplay is quite limited but same goes for a lot of mons in Inheritance sadly
 
I would like to make a post concerning the unbanning of a certain Uber Pokemon:

Unban Blaziken. (Keep the mega banned though. That's a whole different story that should never be started.)

"But wait won't it just run Speed Boost again and wreck the meta?"

It can't, because Speed Boost is banned in this meta.

Which brings me to my main point: because there's no way for Blaziken to run Speed Boost anymore, it's super powerful sets cease to exist, and it has to use another donor to get something good. Unlike any other Pokemon in Ubers, Blaziken has only a modest stat distribution of 80/120/70/110/70/80, which is very similar to Infernape, (which is allowed) but exchanges speed for power. Really, this would mean Blaziken would be totally balanced for the meta.

"But what would we use it for?"

Here's some ideas for that:
Unfortunately, it's middling speed and low bulk make it only able to run two sets: Magnet Pull and Unburden. Here's the Magnet Pull one: (obviously from Golem-A)

Blaziken @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt

Blaziken may be slow, but it is just fast enough to outspeed all of the major Steel-types in Heatran, Celesteela, Magearna, and even a few niche ones like Skarmory and Scizor. Specs give Blaziken enough power to tear through them with an appropriate coverage move. Fire Blast and Focus Blast are the main STABS, Earth Power and Thunderbolt are backup for when Magearna and Celesteela respectively run Flash Fire. (Those two move THKO their respective targets)

Blaziken offers a nice 120 attack, so running a mixed set with Superpower, Earthquake, or Wild Charge is justifiable.

Now for the Unburden sets:

Blaziken @ a seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick / Close Combat
- Earthquake / Knock Off / Stone Edge
- Mach Punch


Blaziken @ a seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge / Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance

Pick your poison: Hitmonlee offers better coverage moves in Earthquake and Knock Off alongside Mach Punch, while Hawlucha gives things like Swords Dance. Both attempt to be a terrain Unburden sweeper to make up for Blaziken's lack of speed.

"But what about it's own movepool?"

Blaziken's ability is really crappy, which limits the amount of Pokemon who would want to inherit from it. However, it's movepool contains nice stuff. The key move included is Brave Bird, which is really nice to have alongside coverage like Earthquake and Stone Edge. It also offers different options too, including Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick, Quick Attack, Thunder Punch, and even Swords Dance. Only two Pokemon would ever consider running it's movepool, one of them being a big winner, and the other being able to run a niche set with it:

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Stone Edge
- High Jump Kick

Using Blaziken's movepool, Mega Aerodactyl gets to have STAB Tough Claws-boosted Brave Bird alongside a strong Stone Edge. Swords dance helps to walbreak easier.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Quick Attack

This can also get STAB Brave Bird alongside Earthquake. Quick Attack lets you revenge stuff while Flare Blitz is to make use of the ability.
(Remember that these are theoretical. They may not be the actual things that happen if Blaziken actually got unbanned.)

So that was a short analysis of things Blaziken could do and offer to other Pokemon. I believe Blaziken is weak enough to be balanced in this meta, but share your opinions! What else do you think Blaziken could do? Who else could make use of it's movepool? Maybe you have some counterpoints to why Blaziken should not be unbanned? Share them!
Honestly I fully agree with ths.
Blaziken with speed boost banned is nothing that inheritance cannot handle.
 

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