thank god, that set was SO broken, but WAY TOO UNHEALTHY, AND STUPIDLY, EXTREMELY, UNACCEPTALLY, ASTRONOMICALLY Broken.
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Metagame Inheritance
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LO Comfey Magearna is so busted imo, it is basically immune to special attacks due to how calm mind raises its SpD to unbreakable levels. It is also much more powerful than it looks. Gonna do some calcs later and add on to this but atm just trying to point this out.
Edit:
1. so lets suppose we have this steel counter called rotom-heat, w/ the classic a-dude set.
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 82-97 (34 - 40.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-Heat Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 186-218 (51 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
hmm it loses if switching in to calm mind?
2. how about a steel counter?
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 205-242 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
not to mention that steel counter can be quite easily removed by magearna's magnet pull teammates
3. at least lets try to revenge kill it maybe?
252 Atk Pinsir-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
yeah the bulk is insane
4. would unaware wall it?
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Magearna Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Suicune: 208-247 (51.4 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Celesteela: 187-221 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
well i guess not
Ofc theres gonna be sets/teams that counter it hardly, i know. But at least what i've listed is what a lot of teams have against magearna, but its just not enough. feel like this should get a suspect and go.
Edit:
1. so lets suppose we have this steel counter called rotom-heat, w/ the classic a-dude set.
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Heat: 82-97 (34 - 40.2%) -- 43.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Rotom-Heat Fire Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 186-218 (51 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
hmm it loses if switching in to calm mind?
2. how about a steel counter?
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Celesteela: 205-242 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
not to mention that steel counter can be quite easily removed by magearna's magnet pull teammates
3. at least lets try to revenge kill it maybe?
252 Atk Pinsir-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
yeah the bulk is insane
4. would unaware wall it?
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Magearna Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Suicune: 208-247 (51.4 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Celesteela: 187-221 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
well i guess not
Ofc theres gonna be sets/teams that counter it hardly, i know. But at least what i've listed is what a lot of teams have against magearna, but its just not enough. feel like this should get a suspect and go.
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You could also just use any psychic terrain inheritor.
So your response is "just run a Lele inherit"? because every team and every archetype can easily fit that... The best Lele inherit is probably Alakazam, right? Let's ignore for a moment how absurd that statement is (imagine if there was a mon in OU that, in order to beat, literally required you to run Tapu Lele...)
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 146-172 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO assuming you bring it in directly on Draining Kiss
252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 97-115 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO if you bring it in on a CM
Great counter. Let's assume you stay in regular zam to keep your psychic terrain - since the Mag user faces literally 0 repercussions for switching out, and virtually none for clicking CM in your face, since it might be packing Synthesis as Giga Drain isn't strictly necessary unless your team lacks a good MegaPert answer, and even if it's not, DK heals so much.
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 119-141 (32.7 - 38.8%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 80-95 (22 - 26.1%) -- 9.1% chance to 4HKO
Of course, this is assuming you aren't forced to Mega vs another threat on your opponent's team, which isn't unlikely since 372 speed isn't phenomenal when mons like MawileKoko and Scarfed TorkoalChandelure are running around. You'll be pressured to mega more often than not. Once you've mega'd and your terrain is gone...
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega: 168-199 (66.9 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Or even before your terrain is gone...
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega: 135-160 (53.7 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 147-173 (58.5 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (if you want to preserve your terrain)
252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam-Mega: 90-107 (35.8 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock (if it bops you on the switch - that's a good chance to 2hko w/2 turns of rocks)
So unless there's like... a physical Lele inherit (lmfao) that also resists HP Fire that isn't complete trash, a Psychic Terrain inheritor is a bad choice as an answer. The best and most splashable answer I've seen is Alolem-Heatran (252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 350-414 (96.4 - 114%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock), and that can get counter-trapped since half the ladder is running Alolem inherits. ComfeyMag is a big threat, imo the most restricting on the ladder right now. Every team I make, I have to ensure I have at least one hard answer to it, preferably with some checks as well. There's definitely 'mons that can beat it, but those mons aren't always the easiest to fit on every team. If your answer to this 'mon is a special attacker, it has to be really powerful to break through, cuz if it CMs on the switch, you're in for a bad time. One of the more common Alolem inherits:
252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 186-218 (51.2 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Infernape Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 272-324 (74.9 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Infernape Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Magearna: 306-362 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 231-274 (78.8 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
and it can very easily just CM up again if you're not packing the Z Fire, then proceed to OHKO and recover most (or all if you're neither specs nor Z) of what you did back.
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 308-364 (105.1 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (60.5% recovered)
I'd love to see Mag suspected, because this set isn't even its only set. It has so much versatility thanks to its typing and stat spread, and most sets need to be handled in different ways, though I strongly believe ComfeyMag is its best and most dangerous set.
I think that was meant to be a suggestion, and not the only way to deal with this set. You can always use Pokemon that resist Magearna's attacks, haze, unaware, etcetera. You can also inherit Bruxish and Tsareena, which get better physical move pools than Lele. Lastly, you can even trap it with something like Heatran inheriting Golem-Alola, which heavily resists draining kiss and giga drain.
While it may have been a suggestion, my point was that it was an emphatically stupid one. I directly mentioned Alolem-Heatran, including a calc, while Bruxish and Tsareena are only really effective if you can get the thing chipped first. Neither possesses good SE coverage for the beast. I was running Tsareena-Heracross as it outspeeds Mega Zam with scarf but:
252 Atk Heracross High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 184-217 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 294-346 (97.6 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Not really a great answer unless you can get the ornery healing bugger (remember DK heals 3/4) below half in the first place, Bruxish is even worse since its best move to hit it is Liquidation (or Aqua Tail but lol) with way less power than HJK.
Unaware kinda works (see QY_CS post), Haze kinda works (since +3 priority, it can boost and still bop you with its boosts if you're faster), but both of those fit better on bulkier and more defensive builds, leaving offensive builds very short on answers. Since its part Steel, even Poison types aren't great responses. Steels are pressured in this meta to check a lot of things, too, so getting chipped isn't unlikely, to say nothing of how present Magnet Pull users are in the tier. Alolem-Heatran is the only common 'mon that actually answers Comfey-Magearna without being a drain on offensive builds, as far as I can tell, and it's vulnerable to being trapped as well. That's a problem worth addressing.
252 Atk Heracross High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 184-217 (50.6 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Heracross: 294-346 (97.6 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Not really a great answer unless you can get the ornery healing bugger (remember DK heals 3/4) below half in the first place, Bruxish is even worse since its best move to hit it is Liquidation (or Aqua Tail but lol) with way less power than HJK.
Unaware kinda works (see QY_CS post), Haze kinda works (since +3 priority, it can boost and still bop you with its boosts if you're faster), but both of those fit better on bulkier and more defensive builds, leaving offensive builds very short on answers. Since its part Steel, even Poison types aren't great responses. Steels are pressured in this meta to check a lot of things, too, so getting chipped isn't unlikely, to say nothing of how present Magnet Pull users are in the tier. Alolem-Heatran is the only common 'mon that actually answers Comfey-Magearna without being a drain on offensive builds, as far as I can tell, and it's vulnerable to being trapped as well. That's a problem worth addressing.
I find Magnet Pull Heatran and Rotom-H (inheriting from Golem-A) work quite well in checking Triage Magearna. They both resist Fairy and most of the coverage moves it runs, and can melt it with Fire Blast or Inferno Overdrive. They also prevent it switching out to its teammates.
This is also a set I've been having fun using:
Clefable (Kyurem) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Soft-boiled
This thing is deadly against stall, as even Unaware Suicune is cleanly 3HKOed if it doesn't carry Stockpile, and it can't do anything back to Kyurem anyway. Calm Mind boosts your power output, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt form the BoltBeam combination that is almost unresisted, while Soft-boiled keeps you healthy. I prefer Life Orb, as that gives a noticeable power boost, but you could run Leftovers as well if you prefer the passive recovery.
This is also a set I've been having fun using:
Clefable (Kyurem) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Soft-boiled
This thing is deadly against stall, as even Unaware Suicune is cleanly 3HKOed if it doesn't carry Stockpile, and it can't do anything back to Kyurem anyway. Calm Mind boosts your power output, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt form the BoltBeam combination that is almost unresisted, while Soft-boiled keeps you healthy. I prefer Life Orb, as that gives a noticeable power boost, but you could run Leftovers as well if you prefer the passive recovery.
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Am I the only one who hate to face spore in this kind of meta ?
I mean, what are sleep inducing moves anyway ?
If there is a wake-up after one turn, then it didn't really accomplish anything. So when you click a sleep inducing move it's just "let's try to get lucky to buy some free turns". That seem to me as some of the most uncompetitive moves. (It's even more true with sleep powder, btw.)
Of course there is sleep clause, but... Why not just ban those moves ? What intersting things do they bring to the meta ?
I feel like, sleep in itself is so broken that there was a ton of little things made to nerf it (low speed for the mons learning spore / accuracy for the others moves, and then grass types and some terrains) ; making it not really broken and not that interesting anymore.
Thus, sleep inducing moves remains, because well, that's not that good. Just a crappy uncompetitive thing still available, allowing you to play a mini-lottery if you want...
I mean, what are sleep inducing moves anyway ?
If there is a wake-up after one turn, then it didn't really accomplish anything. So when you click a sleep inducing move it's just "let's try to get lucky to buy some free turns". That seem to me as some of the most uncompetitive moves. (It's even more true with sleep powder, btw.)
Of course there is sleep clause, but... Why not just ban those moves ? What intersting things do they bring to the meta ?
I feel like, sleep in itself is so broken that there was a ton of little things made to nerf it (low speed for the mons learning spore / accuracy for the others moves, and then grass types and some terrains) ; making it not really broken and not that interesting anymore.
Thus, sleep inducing moves remains, because well, that's not that good. Just a crappy uncompetitive thing still available, allowing you to play a mini-lottery if you want...
I would like to post the team I've been using on the Inheritance ladder with pretty good succes. It (and an earlier, worse variation) got me to 1500 twice. First before the inPHeritance disaster, then I dropped a bit after using a bad team and now I'm back. Getting up to even 1500 was a big hassle, getting 7 points per win and losing to hax only to drop 40 points as a result can be really annoying. Anyway on to the team.
First off there's Lop, which I prefer to Medi since it doesn't have to worry about Ghost switchins walling it. This is most significant when it comes to Protean Alowak which easily checks most MMedi sets but cant really do anything to Lop as CC ohkos after some chip. If Lop gets an SD off, Alowak drops. Toxic can cripple fat Buzzwoles and Suicunes that like to switch in.
Heatran is useful as it can trap all the annoying steels, at least until people start running shed shell, but even then it can get up rocks or Volt out on the predicted switch. It also checks ComfeyMag, as Z Fire blast always KOs the standard set at +1. Assuming the Mag isn't HP Ground, it can also set up rocks first.
Protean Alowak is a really great mon. I put it on the team to not have to worry about MMedi randomly winning after an SD, since Medi can't espeed it and Shadow Sneak always KOs it. Thunder Punch is a bit unorthodox, but i added it to have another way of breaking QuagCune, whereas Drain Punch is useful vs Lax.
The defensive core is pretty standard, Cune checks most setup sweepers, EmolgaSteela is the fogger, ground immunity and electric immunity and Muk is the regenvest pivot that checks most Lele and Nidoking inheritors as well as absorbing Tspikes when that turns out to be necessary. The only thing I might try changing is putting Uturn somewhere on Celesteela, to be able to keep up momentum after switching in on an Electric Attack.
That said, the team isn't perfect and it tends to struggle vs some things, for example:
- Special based Fire types, especialy Torkoal Inheritors as Suicune is the only Fire resist and it's physically defensive so it takes anywhere from 50-70 from a sun boosted specs Eruption, depending on the mon.
- Banded rock types. The team has no rock resist, so sufficiently powerful rock types can muscle through Cune/Steela
- Setup Terrakions that manage to get past Suicune due to a sleeping move or a crit. Especially those inheriting from Inkay and using Z happy hour, as it makes Terrak outspeed Lop which is otherwise my best way of revenging them.
- QD Mega Venu. Nothing hits it SE except Celesteela, which doesnt do that much to begin with. Fortunately a lot of these Venus dont run recovery for some reason so I was able to chip them down into range of Lop/Wak.
- Pheal Snorlax. Suicune walls it, but Lax walls it back, meaning that I am usually forced to go into Alowak on a turn when they click Facade and then force it out or OHKO w Drain Punch. Lop also can't switch in and I don't think CC OHKOs +1 Lax.
Feel free to make suggestions or use the team yourselves.
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Toxic
Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Shadow Sneak
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic
Celesteela @ Shed Shell
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- U-turn
- Drain Punch
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Toxic
Heatran @ Firium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Volt Switch
- Earth Power
Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Protean
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Shadow Sneak
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic
Celesteela @ Shed Shell
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog
Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Atk / 232 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- U-turn
- Drain Punch
First off there's Lop, which I prefer to Medi since it doesn't have to worry about Ghost switchins walling it. This is most significant when it comes to Protean Alowak which easily checks most MMedi sets but cant really do anything to Lop as CC ohkos after some chip. If Lop gets an SD off, Alowak drops. Toxic can cripple fat Buzzwoles and Suicunes that like to switch in.
Heatran is useful as it can trap all the annoying steels, at least until people start running shed shell, but even then it can get up rocks or Volt out on the predicted switch. It also checks ComfeyMag, as Z Fire blast always KOs the standard set at +1. Assuming the Mag isn't HP Ground, it can also set up rocks first.
Protean Alowak is a really great mon. I put it on the team to not have to worry about MMedi randomly winning after an SD, since Medi can't espeed it and Shadow Sneak always KOs it. Thunder Punch is a bit unorthodox, but i added it to have another way of breaking QuagCune, whereas Drain Punch is useful vs Lax.
The defensive core is pretty standard, Cune checks most setup sweepers, EmolgaSteela is the fogger, ground immunity and electric immunity and Muk is the regenvest pivot that checks most Lele and Nidoking inheritors as well as absorbing Tspikes when that turns out to be necessary. The only thing I might try changing is putting Uturn somewhere on Celesteela, to be able to keep up momentum after switching in on an Electric Attack.
That said, the team isn't perfect and it tends to struggle vs some things, for example:
- Special based Fire types, especialy Torkoal Inheritors as Suicune is the only Fire resist and it's physically defensive so it takes anywhere from 50-70 from a sun boosted specs Eruption, depending on the mon.
- Banded rock types. The team has no rock resist, so sufficiently powerful rock types can muscle through Cune/Steela
- Setup Terrakions that manage to get past Suicune due to a sleeping move or a crit. Especially those inheriting from Inkay and using Z happy hour, as it makes Terrak outspeed Lop which is otherwise my best way of revenging them.
- QD Mega Venu. Nothing hits it SE except Celesteela, which doesnt do that much to begin with. Fortunately a lot of these Venus dont run recovery for some reason so I was able to chip them down into range of Lop/Wak.
- Pheal Snorlax. Suicune walls it, but Lax walls it back, meaning that I am usually forced to go into Alowak on a turn when they click Facade and then force it out or OHKO w Drain Punch. Lop also can't switch in and I don't think CC OHKOs +1 Lax.
Feel free to make suggestions or use the team yourselves.
There are definitely offensive checks / counters to Magearna.
Darmanitan works, as do some other offensive fire types. I'm going to focus on Darmanitan because it a) resists Fairy (and Grass) and b) is physical, like the best Magearna counters will be.
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 608-716 (167.4 - 197.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 140-165 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252+ SpA Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 288-339 (82 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (LO KOs obviously, but Darmanitan can prevent that and honestly if you let most sweepers get to +6 you're gonna lose)
Note that Darmanitan is a check IF and only if Magearna run Hidden Power Ground (or you know Rock or Water but like it's not going to run those).
252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 302-356 (86 - 101.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
The most notable other Fire type than functions basically the same as Darmanitan and is actually way better is Torkoaltran. While it may not trap like GolemTran it isn't nearly as vulnerable to its boosting.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna in Sun: 522-614 (143.8 - 169.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast vs. +2 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna in Sun: 390-462 (107.4 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Eruption does more but obviously you can be chipped out of that BUT
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. +3 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna in Sun: 428-506 (117.9 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
not even gonna bother calcing Heatran defensively. It dies to HP Ground and takes almost nothing from everything else.
Chandlure can do the exact same thing
SOME Landorus-Therian sets can counter Magearna. You specifically need a boost to Earthquake or an AV ig
252 Atk Guts Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 348-410 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO. I don't recommend this route.
Excadrill can do something similar
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Excadrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 342-404 (94.2 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 250-294 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Note that I've been assuming the worst for EVs here. AKA Magearna is both physically defensive and specially offensive. This is impossible. It's only particularly relevant with Lando-T and Excadrill, as if Mage runs less than full bulk it dies and
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 250-294 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 SpA Magearna Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 144-170 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Guts Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 474-558 (130.5 - 153.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 SpA Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 123-145 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage (any chip, including two turns of past burn or rocks turns this into a chance for a 2hko)
There are other checks and counters.
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna: 268-320 (73.8 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (this is Magic Guard)
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 360-424 (99.1 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery (Bronzong set, obv more offensive sets do more but HP Ground ;-;)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Stakataka: 173-204 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Essentially: I think you should look around a bit more before claiming Magearna lacks counters. Yes it is a potent threat versus offensive teams, and yes it can find it easy to sweep versus unprepared teams, especially since it is basically impossible to chip. But many top tier threats can do that. I'm sure there are more threats I did not cover that can offensively answer Mage. I don't believe anything I mentioned is unviable or unused or only used for Magearna. Mage being able to switch out of them is just part of Pokemon; Offensive teams will inherently limit switch-in opportunities, and smart play and building will severely limit set-up opportunities.
The main thing I noticed was that all of the Pokemon you mentioned were special. I don't think looking for special mons to break or threaten Magearna as your primary source way of beating it is great, as it boosts its SpD, often runs AV on other sets, and is naturally very specially bulky (well its bulky on both ends).
Let me know if you'd like me to clarify anything on any of these points :D
Darmanitan works, as do some other offensive fire types. I'm going to focus on Darmanitan because it a) resists Fairy (and Grass) and b) is physical, like the best Magearna counters will be.
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 608-716 (167.4 - 197.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 140-165 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252+ SpA Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 288-339 (82 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (LO KOs obviously, but Darmanitan can prevent that and honestly if you let most sweepers get to +6 you're gonna lose)
Note that Darmanitan is a check IF and only if Magearna run Hidden Power Ground (or you know Rock or Water but like it's not going to run those).
252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 302-356 (86 - 101.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
The most notable other Fire type than functions basically the same as Darmanitan and is actually way better is Torkoaltran. While it may not trap like GolemTran it isn't nearly as vulnerable to its boosting.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna in Sun: 522-614 (143.8 - 169.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Fire Blast vs. +2 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna in Sun: 390-462 (107.4 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Eruption does more but obviously you can be chipped out of that BUT
252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. +3 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna in Sun: 428-506 (117.9 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
not even gonna bother calcing Heatran defensively. It dies to HP Ground and takes almost nothing from everything else.
Chandlure can do the exact same thing
SOME Landorus-Therian sets can counter Magearna. You specifically need a boost to Earthquake or an AV ig
252 Atk Guts Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 348-410 (95.8 - 112.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO. I don't recommend this route.
Excadrill can do something similar
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Excadrill Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 342-404 (94.2 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 250-294 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Note that I've been assuming the worst for EVs here. AKA Magearna is both physically defensive and specially offensive. This is impossible. It's only particularly relevant with Lando-T and Excadrill, as if Mage runs less than full bulk it dies and
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 250-294 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 0 SpA Magearna Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 144-170 (39.7 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Guts Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 474-558 (130.5 - 153.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 SpA Magearna Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 123-145 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after burn damage (any chip, including two turns of past burn or rocks turns this into a chance for a 2hko)
There are other checks and counters.
252 SpA Life Orb Moltres Fire Blast vs. +1 248 HP / 8 SpD Magearna: 268-320 (73.8 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (this is Magic Guard)
252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 360-424 (99.1 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery (Bronzong set, obv more offensive sets do more but HP Ground ;-;)
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Stakataka: 173-204 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Essentially: I think you should look around a bit more before claiming Magearna lacks counters. Yes it is a potent threat versus offensive teams, and yes it can find it easy to sweep versus unprepared teams, especially since it is basically impossible to chip. But many top tier threats can do that. I'm sure there are more threats I did not cover that can offensively answer Mage. I don't believe anything I mentioned is unviable or unused or only used for Magearna. Mage being able to switch out of them is just part of Pokemon; Offensive teams will inherently limit switch-in opportunities, and smart play and building will severely limit set-up opportunities.
The main thing I noticed was that all of the Pokemon you mentioned were special. I don't think looking for special mons to break or threaten Magearna as your primary source way of beating it is great, as it boosts its SpD, often runs AV on other sets, and is naturally very specially bulky (well its bulky on both ends).
Let me know if you'd like me to clarify anything on any of these points :D
I would like to nominate adding Rhyperior to the list of donors for Heatran.
Lightningrod allows Heatran to completely wall Electric/Ice/Grass coverage. It also lets it block Volt Switch while at the same time obtaining boosts to nuke attempted switches. Rhyperior has excellent special coverage (why Game Freak) so you do not lack for options, but I personally prefer this set:
Heatran @ Air Balloon / Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock / Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
You can also invest in HP if you prefer to tank coverage moves better and for longer.
Fire Blast is of course, STAB. Earth Power is very good secondary coverage. Thunderbolt covers Water types and Rock types like Archeops that Earth Power misses (I wouldn't stay in on Archeops though, just nail it on the switch).
Other options include Ice Beam, Surf, and Flash Cannon. I don't recommend Flash Cannon because it doesn't hit much that other coverage can't but it's there. You can run Flamethrower > Fire Blast but the power drop is noticeable.
Here's a replaythat shows why you might want to run Flamethower: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-993431196
Lightningrod allows Heatran to completely wall Electric/Ice/Grass coverage. It also lets it block Volt Switch while at the same time obtaining boosts to nuke attempted switches. Rhyperior has excellent special coverage (why Game Freak) so you do not lack for options, but I personally prefer this set:
Heatran @ Air Balloon / Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock / Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
You can also invest in HP if you prefer to tank coverage moves better and for longer.
Fire Blast is of course, STAB. Earth Power is very good secondary coverage. Thunderbolt covers Water types and Rock types like Archeops that Earth Power misses (I wouldn't stay in on Archeops though, just nail it on the switch).
Other options include Ice Beam, Surf, and Flash Cannon. I don't recommend Flash Cannon because it doesn't hit much that other coverage can't but it's there. You can run Flamethrower > Fire Blast but the power drop is noticeable.
Here's a replay
Assuming you mean Eevee as a donor, it is generally outclassed by every other Adaptability Pokémon available, thanks to having a limited movepool.
Some tips to beat Celesteela include Magnet Pullers -- common ones include Heatran, Rotom-Heat, Thundurus-T and Infernape. If they are packing Shed Shell, having strong wallbreakers and consistent offensive pressure should be of great assistance, as it has very popular weaknesses. Popular ones like Mawile --> Tapu Koko, most Nidoking inheritors and probably a few Mold Breaker Pokémon could be good (Rampardos --> Garchomp is probably fire)
but aren't Slowbro and Slowking from the same evolutionary line?
Glad to see some discussion has been going! I have a couple things I want to address / bring up for discussion.
First of all, there will be an Inheritance Viability Rankings Update sometime this weekend, so make your opinions known in the thread here! Some noms that I'm bringing up for consideration personally are:
Secondly, it's good to see some discussion on potential suspects. We'd like to get at least 1 more suspect in before the month is up. Personally, I'm not sure what that should be. I'm of the opinion that the metagame is relatively balanced right now with no one playstyle being overbearing, I've heard matchup issues be mentioned but I feel that's somewhat an inevitable result of a higher-power metagame. That said these are some of the common suspects I've seen talked about:
That's all from me~
First of all, there will be an Inheritance Viability Rankings Update sometime this weekend, so make your opinions known in the thread here! Some noms that I'm bringing up for consideration personally are:
Mega Medicham A -> A+ - Medicham strikes a really potent balance of being able to threaten offensive and defensive teams alike between its massive power and access to good STABs + Extreme Speed from Lucario. In my view its inability to switch into anything and its vulnerability to certain revenge killers (Triage Magearna, Protean Alowak, Gengar) hold it back from being S-rank but it's certainly very potent.
Tapu Fini A- -> A or even A+ - Tapu Fini has several notable advantages over Suicune as an Unaware user: namely its typing allows it to better Keldeo on rain teams and resistance to Mega Medicham's Close Combat is a boon for balance as well. Its Prankster set from Sableye is also a pretty interesting one that allows it to annoy offensive teams pretty consistently. Overall a super solid choice that offers a lot in the current metagame.
Mega Pinsir A -> A- - Pinsir's just not as good as it used to be. Unlike Medicham it's almost always hard stopped by Unaware and it's not really the premier Extreme Speed using Mega anymore. It's still perfectly usable but requires a lot more support than the other things in A and lacks the same flexibility.
Mega Mawile A- to A or A+ - Mawile's crazy good in my opinion, it's very similar to Medicham except it trades speed and dual STABs for the bulk to actually stay in and SD on things. Like Medicham its best set inherits from Lucario but it has the option of running a set purely dedicated to breaking as well. Curious what other people have experienced with this but in my experience it can just trash teams after a SD.
Doublade C+ to B+ - I know it's a massive jump but this thing should not be so low. Doublade offers fantastic compression for stall and balance and is one of the few checks to Mawile and Medicham on those archetypes while also being able to handle non-Fire Blast Mawile!Tapu Koko and plenty of other stuff. Pretty flexible in the set it uses too: Unaware, Magic Bounce, and immunity abilities are all options.
Mega Glalie A- -> B+ - Pretty much the same reasoning as Pinsir but this thing's even worse in my opinion. Water-type Unawares are common and completely ruin any chance this has to do work (Pinsir can at least get past with Double-Edge and some chip). You can definitely still use this but it's not the metagame defining threat it used to be and fits better with situationally threatening things like Mega Gardevoir.
Blissey UR -> Ranked somewhere - Kind of self-explanatory. Chansey's gone and Blissey can fill the role of rally fat special blanket check reasonably well and is no longer 100% outclassed. I'd put this around B+ for now but I can definitely see it going higher if the metagame continues to be kind to it.
Zeraora B -> B+ or A- - Zeraora's one of the most consistent suicide leads thanks to its extremely high speed and the fact that it isn't 1hkosd by Scarf Toucannon!Archeops. Not much to say other than that, Protean sets exist too but aren't particularly amazing but overall its role as a suicide lead warrants a higher ranking.
Thundurus A- -> B - This isn't used very widely and in my opinion it's outclassed by Tapu Koko for the most part. It hits a bit harder but not notably so, Sheer Force sets are cool but don't stand out much in my eyes. Someone with more experience using it can challenge me on this though.
Comfey as a donor / Magearna
Mega Medicham
Torkoal as a donor
Unburden
On a personal level, I don't find any of these to be overwhelming in a vacuum or in my experience playing. I'd love to hear more arguments from people advocating these here, if there's strong evidence one or more of them are unhealthy then I'm all ears for a suspect.That's all from me~
I already mentioned Blaziken (base only) on the earlier page, but ill bring it up again for this subject.
For refrence, here's the orignal post on this:
and for the other part:I would like to make a post concerning the unbanning of a certain Uber Pokemon:
Unban Blaziken. (Keep the mega banned though. That's a whole different story that should never be started.)
"But wait won't it just run Speed Boost again and wreck the meta?"
It can't, because Speed Boost is banned in this meta.
Which brings me to my main point: because there's no way for Blaziken to run Speed Boost anymore, it's super powerful sets cease to exist, and it has to use another donor to get something good. Unlike any other Pokemon in Ubers, Blaziken has only a modest stat distribution of 80/120/70/110/70/80, which is very similar to Infernape, (which is allowed) but exchanges speed for power. Really, this would mean Blaziken would be totally balanced for the meta.
"But what would we use it for?"
Here's some ideas for that:
"But what about it's own movepool?"Unfortunately, it's middling speed and low bulk make it only able to run two sets: Magnet Pull and Unburden. Here's the Magnet Pull one: (obviously from Golem-A)
Blaziken @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
Blaziken may be slow, but it is just fast enough to outspeed all of the major Steel-types in Heatran, Celesteela, Magearna, and even a few niche ones like Skarmory and Scizor. Specs give Blaziken enough power to tear through them with an appropriate coverage move. Fire Blast and Focus Blast are the main STABS, Earth Power and Thunderbolt are backup for when Magearna and Celesteela respectively run Flash Fire. (Those two move THKO their respective targets)
Blaziken offers a nice 120 attack, so running a mixed set with Superpower, Earthquake, or Wild Charge is justifiable.
Now for the Unburden sets:
Blaziken @ a seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Jump Kick / Close Combat
- Earthquake / Knock Off / Stone Edge
- Mach Punch
Blaziken @ a seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Punch
- High Jump Kick
- Stone Edge / Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance
Pick your poison: Hitmonlee offers better coverage moves in Earthquake and Knock Off alongside Mach Punch, while Hawlucha gives things like Swords Dance. Both attempt to be a terrain Unburden sweeper to make up for Blaziken's lack of speed.
(Remember that these are theoretical. They may not be the actual things that happen if Blaziken actually got unbanned.)Blaziken's ability is really crappy, which limits the amount of Pokemon who would want to inherit from it. However, it's movepool contains nice stuff. The key move included is Brave Bird, which is really nice to have alongside coverage like Earthquake and Stone Edge. It also offers different options too, including Flare Blitz, High Jump Kick, Quick Attack, Thunder Punch, and even Swords Dance. Only two Pokemon would ever consider running it's movepool, one of them being a big winner, and the other being able to run a niche set with it:
Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Stone Edge
- High Jump Kick
Using Blaziken's movepool, Mega Aerodactyl gets to have STAB Tough Claws-boosted Brave Bird alongside a strong Stone Edge. Swords dance helps to walbreak easier.
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- Quick Attack
This can also get STAB Brave Bird alongside Earthquake. Quick Attack lets you revenge stuff while Flare Blitz is to make use of the ability.
So that was a short analysis of things Blaziken could do and offer to other Pokemon. I believe Blaziken is weak enough to be balanced in this meta, but share your opinions! What else do you think Blaziken could do? Who else could make use of it's movepool? Maybe you have some counterpoints to why Blaziken should not be unbanned? Share them!
Blaziken usually has access to Speed Boost to sweep teams in standard, but here Speed Boost is banned, making it's manageable 80/120/70/110/70/80 stats much more manageable here. It offers a niche over Infernape by trading speed for power.
I already covered how Golem-A would be it's best donor thanks to 80 speed being able to outspeed most of the major Steel-Types, and it's nice 120/110 offenses. I also covered how Unburden sets would also be interesting thanks to those allowing Blaziken to go faster. I decided to look up more mons with Fighting/Fire coverage and got a list of semi-viable things:
Sheer Force-boosted Fire Blast and Focus Blast exist if Blaziken wants to use it.
Machamp offers STAB No Guard Dynamic Punch and Fire Blast. Lets Blaziken use strong moves without their drawbacks. It still leaves Blaziken slow without a Choice Scarf though.
Dragonite has Dragon Dance to help Blaziken go faster, has STAB Fire Punch and Superpower for it, and has Multiscale to help get the DD off. Other Pokemon would like it's colorfull movepool however, and may be better than Blaziken at using it.
Granbull lets Blaziken run an insanely gimicky Toxic Orb Quick Feet set, alongside STAB Fire Punch/Fire Blast and Close Combat. Read insanely gimicky from this.
Running Sun-boosted Eruption and Superpower is always an option for Blaziken if you want.
V-create and Brick Break. (or Focus Blast if you are cool) May not be the best mon to use that movepool.
Hustle Flare Blitz and Superpower for Blaziken. Fits a hit-and-run role for a Pokemon.
Gives Fire Punch and Superpower (why can this learn that?) alongside Magic Guard to Blaziken.
vr noms:
-> S (+monferno, +victini, -necrozma)
medicham has definitely proved itself to be the best breaker in inheritance. incredible power + 120 BP stab in close combat, an extremely powerful espeed and a diverse list of inherits makes medicham the go-to mon to be countered for most teams, often invoking mons like flash fire doublade just to check it through typing. medicham also has ways around its main counters, such as monferno for mega sableye, non-ff doublade, and if it wants to it can run gunk shot to lure tapu fini and tapu bulu over mach punch or sd depending on whether it wants to balance break or stallbreak. this mon really has it all, and although it can be adapted through with offense and checks like marowak-a, gengar and archeops, it still has all of the best qualities of being an insane threat to deal with in inheritance.
-> A+ (+clefairy, +nidoking, +hydreigon, +rampardos)
I would probably call this the best second best steel in inheritance right now. capable of utilizing its interesting typing to shut down mons like magearna and celesteela is no joke, and its magnet pull sets are very strong at removing some very frustrating threats like offensive celesteela. sadly as it is a steel it can be susceptible to magnet pull itself, and that can do in the viability of more defensive sets like hydreigon. not only are torkoal sets ridiculously hard to resist but nidoking sets can also completely pull out some of the checks to those like flash fires and av dragons, either rocking up on them or ice beaming them for up to 40%, negating their regen, making it harder to counter as rocks chip starts to rack up. I would nominate this to S if I were more confident with its capabilities against offensive teams, however I don't personally feel it is consistent enough to warrant one right now.
-> A+ (+gliscor)
this thing has been a pretty considerable threat for a good amount of time. mold breaker rockium z sets are still jamming out against balance cores and as long as buzzwole isn't used as much it can still be noted as a fairly strong utility threat as well. gliscor sets are a more defensive take on garchomp, utilizing its decent speed tier and typing to take on threats like torkoaltran for more bulky offense oriented teams and being able to knock off shed shells on celesteelas for easier baggings with magnet pull. whilst it still has a considerable weakness against bulky water types, it doesn't mean it can't do anything against them, and non-unaware variants will usually get ruined by this mon because of its natural bulk. definitely a rise from me.
-> A+ (+lucario)
quite possibly the most splashable anti-offense mon there is right now. you want threats like landorus-t and comfeygear to stop sweeping your teams? bring this guy, he's hot. marowak-a does an incredible job of staving off threats like these and playing an incredible role in the endgame to a significant degree because of these typing niches and the movepool that kecleon grants, which allow it to effectively ohko a bunch of heavy threats like tapu koko after rocks and mega medicham, as well as the alternate fires like chandelure and salazzle. consider this mon on any team that happens to be offense weak, you will be surprised at how good he is.
-> A (+arcanine, +tornadus-t, -flareon)
doublade being in C+ is a huge joke considering how good this mon is in the current metagame. it's capable of walling practically every physical attacker given the right set, and is a huge pain in the ass to properly break due to it taking the best breakers on so well. tornadus-t variants are superb when momentum is needed, and can provide big benefits over the alternative, persian-a!tapu bulu for offenses that require a medicham or koko pivot. levitate variants are practically guaranteed to take on landorus, and flash fire variants stop medicham even harder than it did before. this mon deserves massive praise for what good it can do for a team and how tightly it compresses roles.
-> A (+sableye)
fini's definitely a good pivot. capable of avoiding the 2hko from mega medicham (albeit barely) and dealing nicely with mons like landorus-t and terrakion (beware of intimidate variants though!) does make fini very valuable for teams right now. sadly it isn't the worlds best fire resist as most of them are able to slice through it with electric or grass coverage, but as a physical pivot fini does a lot that cune wishes it could do.
-> A- (+quagsire, +miltank, +sableye, +xatu, +volbeat)
practically the same as chansey, just without the ability to wall torktran all day without being disadvantaged. certainly a strong specially based pivot that happens to be really tough to take down and prankster support variants can be a big boon for teams without a good special tank. beware of pursuit users however, blissey is a lot more physically frail than chansey was.
-> A-
the alternative special sheer force user. does a damn good job at thrusting through offensive builds in comparison to gengar and co., which are usually broken by mons like marowak-a or medicham. it does a great job of utilizing the assumption that builds are going to have a physically based electric resist due to tapu koko, and absolutely smacks them due to it. lead set is also very annoying and allows koko to go ham because of it. otherwise not really too much to say other than this was going to take a while.
-> B+ (+talonflame)
m-aero's definitely underrated. for one, its brave bird is incredibly tough to resist, especially when boosted, as it cuts through unaware tapu fini as well as suicune if rocks are present. its incredibly high speed and normal resist make it excellent against offense as well, with the best resisting options either requiring a choice scarf user or a pivot like magearna, doublade or bulu. balance doesn't have too much against this guy either, with the best resistances either needing flash fire (through needing to resist medicham) or utilizing intimidate waters as shown above to try and wear it down with recoil - which is probably this mons biggest issue. strong as heck otherwise, definitely a mon to consider if you don't want to spam mega medicham all day.
-> B+ (+persian-a, +slurpuff, +tsareena)
tapu bulu is one heck of a good pivot. for one, fur coat makes it so that even 2x effective moves from the best hitters can be shrugged off, and can be toxiced for considerable chip. whilst this doesn't really have good recovery, the capability for it to be such a good physical tank often means leftovers can heal it back, and parting shot only makes this better so that bulu doesn't have to be pressured too hard if it needs to come back in again. it also happens to be one of the best walls to medicham and tapu koko, like doublade, but with the added bonus of knock off and parting shot, plus less damage against koko and especially so if it ends up being a different variant. likewise with doublade, this mon rocks and you should seriously consider putting it on more offensive teams as a catch-all pivot. tsareena is also a fairly niche slot that can revenge kill these mons because of priority immunity with a choice scarf, further giving reason for its utility. definitely look out for this beast.
drops:
-> A
cune suffers a lot of competition from fini right now because of mega medicham so I'll agree mostly with pigeons on this one. not too much to say about this one other than it doesn't have as wide a range of options that fini does, despite walling more with its main sets.
-> B
don't see too much reason to use this in a metagame filled to the brim with defensive waters. like what does it do other than not have coverage for it, earthquake and do 20? running pika is also a bad idea because of its lack of sd too, and you'll be struggling vs doublade that way too. it's really mediocre in the current metagame where having a strong wallbreaker means almost everything.
-> C
yeah thund is p much outclassed by zera at this point except for a few more points in special attack and a pretty insignificant flying typing. I see no reason to use this over zera, perhaps someone else can convince me otherwise
misc notes:
+arcanine, zygarde
both of these inherits are excellent espeed users and even against pterrain they do very nicely because of lax's gigantic special bulk. cb with arcanine is a very nice utility resistance capable of taking hits from torkoal inherits and just firing back with a ff boosted flare blitz, and potentially throwing out toxic for bulky waters too. zygarde sorta takes a different look on things, being less potent with attacking and resisting power initially but because of coil and tarrows it often invalidates regular resistances like celesteela and waters like non-unaware cune and fini. I would call this S more than I would call heatran S but both aren't too consistent for me to consider it really.
+mew
yeah blocking priority is nice but have you ever hit that celesteela with a +2 thunderbolt and ohkoed? it's certainly satisfying for me. ep also makes this not bait to muk unlike other variants and also takes care of other steels nicely. certainly much better than lelezam for me, that inherit is grossly overrated imo
-> S (rejected) (+sableye, rampardos)
mag's diverse, and it has great power in its comfey set as a revenge killer. but do I think it's S? not really. fires just do this mon in too hard and its low speed and unfortunate typing for sheer force unfortunately means it isn't the ace breaker it could be. and outside of that, like with the other A+ mons I've called S they just aren't consistent enough for me to really categorize them as S ranked. and as for a steel outside of being neutral to focus blast I generally prefer heatran right now as it has a wider list of more powerful inherits that are useful in a metagame where unaware is normal to encounter. honestly don't understand the whole panic around comfeygear rn, it just isn't very powerful and can be just easily resisted by specially defensive mons like lax that just utilize it as setup fodder.
-> S (+monferno, +victini, -necrozma)medicham has definitely proved itself to be the best breaker in inheritance. incredible power + 120 BP stab in close combat, an extremely powerful espeed and a diverse list of inherits makes medicham the go-to mon to be countered for most teams, often invoking mons like flash fire doublade just to check it through typing. medicham also has ways around its main counters, such as monferno for mega sableye, non-ff doublade, and if it wants to it can run gunk shot to lure tapu fini and tapu bulu over mach punch or sd depending on whether it wants to balance break or stallbreak. this mon really has it all, and although it can be adapted through with offense and checks like marowak-a, gengar and archeops, it still has all of the best qualities of being an insane threat to deal with in inheritance.
-> A+ (+clefairy, +nidoking, +hydreigon, +rampardos)I would probably call this the best second best steel in inheritance right now. capable of utilizing its interesting typing to shut down mons like magearna and celesteela is no joke, and its magnet pull sets are very strong at removing some very frustrating threats like offensive celesteela. sadly as it is a steel it can be susceptible to magnet pull itself, and that can do in the viability of more defensive sets like hydreigon. not only are torkoal sets ridiculously hard to resist but nidoking sets can also completely pull out some of the checks to those like flash fires and av dragons, either rocking up on them or ice beaming them for up to 40%, negating their regen, making it harder to counter as rocks chip starts to rack up. I would nominate this to S if I were more confident with its capabilities against offensive teams, however I don't personally feel it is consistent enough to warrant one right now.
-> A+ (+gliscor)this thing has been a pretty considerable threat for a good amount of time. mold breaker rockium z sets are still jamming out against balance cores and as long as buzzwole isn't used as much it can still be noted as a fairly strong utility threat as well. gliscor sets are a more defensive take on garchomp, utilizing its decent speed tier and typing to take on threats like torkoaltran for more bulky offense oriented teams and being able to knock off shed shells on celesteelas for easier baggings with magnet pull. whilst it still has a considerable weakness against bulky water types, it doesn't mean it can't do anything against them, and non-unaware variants will usually get ruined by this mon because of its natural bulk. definitely a rise from me.
-> A+ (+lucario)quite possibly the most splashable anti-offense mon there is right now. you want threats like landorus-t and comfeygear to stop sweeping your teams? bring this guy, he's hot. marowak-a does an incredible job of staving off threats like these and playing an incredible role in the endgame to a significant degree because of these typing niches and the movepool that kecleon grants, which allow it to effectively ohko a bunch of heavy threats like tapu koko after rocks and mega medicham, as well as the alternate fires like chandelure and salazzle. consider this mon on any team that happens to be offense weak, you will be surprised at how good he is.
-> A (+arcanine, +tornadus-t, -flareon)doublade being in C+ is a huge joke considering how good this mon is in the current metagame. it's capable of walling practically every physical attacker given the right set, and is a huge pain in the ass to properly break due to it taking the best breakers on so well. tornadus-t variants are superb when momentum is needed, and can provide big benefits over the alternative, persian-a!tapu bulu for offenses that require a medicham or koko pivot. levitate variants are practically guaranteed to take on landorus, and flash fire variants stop medicham even harder than it did before. this mon deserves massive praise for what good it can do for a team and how tightly it compresses roles.
-> A (+sableye)fini's definitely a good pivot. capable of avoiding the 2hko from mega medicham (albeit barely) and dealing nicely with mons like landorus-t and terrakion (beware of intimidate variants though!) does make fini very valuable for teams right now. sadly it isn't the worlds best fire resist as most of them are able to slice through it with electric or grass coverage, but as a physical pivot fini does a lot that cune wishes it could do.
-> A- (+quagsire, +miltank, +sableye, +xatu, +volbeat)practically the same as chansey, just without the ability to wall torktran all day without being disadvantaged. certainly a strong specially based pivot that happens to be really tough to take down and prankster support variants can be a big boon for teams without a good special tank. beware of pursuit users however, blissey is a lot more physically frail than chansey was.
-> A-the alternative special sheer force user. does a damn good job at thrusting through offensive builds in comparison to gengar and co., which are usually broken by mons like marowak-a or medicham. it does a great job of utilizing the assumption that builds are going to have a physically based electric resist due to tapu koko, and absolutely smacks them due to it. lead set is also very annoying and allows koko to go ham because of it. otherwise not really too much to say other than this was going to take a while.
-> B+ (+talonflame)m-aero's definitely underrated. for one, its brave bird is incredibly tough to resist, especially when boosted, as it cuts through unaware tapu fini as well as suicune if rocks are present. its incredibly high speed and normal resist make it excellent against offense as well, with the best resisting options either requiring a choice scarf user or a pivot like magearna, doublade or bulu. balance doesn't have too much against this guy either, with the best resistances either needing flash fire (through needing to resist medicham) or utilizing intimidate waters as shown above to try and wear it down with recoil - which is probably this mons biggest issue. strong as heck otherwise, definitely a mon to consider if you don't want to spam mega medicham all day.
-> B+ (+persian-a, +slurpuff, +tsareena)tapu bulu is one heck of a good pivot. for one, fur coat makes it so that even 2x effective moves from the best hitters can be shrugged off, and can be toxiced for considerable chip. whilst this doesn't really have good recovery, the capability for it to be such a good physical tank often means leftovers can heal it back, and parting shot only makes this better so that bulu doesn't have to be pressured too hard if it needs to come back in again. it also happens to be one of the best walls to medicham and tapu koko, like doublade, but with the added bonus of knock off and parting shot, plus less damage against koko and especially so if it ends up being a different variant. likewise with doublade, this mon rocks and you should seriously consider putting it on more offensive teams as a catch-all pivot. tsareena is also a fairly niche slot that can revenge kill these mons because of priority immunity with a choice scarf, further giving reason for its utility. definitely look out for this beast.
drops:
-> Acune suffers a lot of competition from fini right now because of mega medicham so I'll agree mostly with pigeons on this one. not too much to say about this one other than it doesn't have as wide a range of options that fini does, despite walling more with its main sets.
-> Bdon't see too much reason to use this in a metagame filled to the brim with defensive waters. like what does it do other than not have coverage for it, earthquake and do 20? running pika is also a bad idea because of its lack of sd too, and you'll be struggling vs doublade that way too. it's really mediocre in the current metagame where having a strong wallbreaker means almost everything.
-> Cyeah thund is p much outclassed by zera at this point except for a few more points in special attack and a pretty insignificant flying typing. I see no reason to use this over zera, perhaps someone else can convince me otherwise
misc notes:
+arcanine, zygardeboth of these inherits are excellent espeed users and even against pterrain they do very nicely because of lax's gigantic special bulk. cb with arcanine is a very nice utility resistance capable of taking hits from torkoal inherits and just firing back with a ff boosted flare blitz, and potentially throwing out toxic for bulky waters too. zygarde sorta takes a different look on things, being less potent with attacking and resisting power initially but because of coil and tarrows it often invalidates regular resistances like celesteela and waters like non-unaware cune and fini. I would call this S more than I would call heatran S but both aren't too consistent for me to consider it really.
+mewyeah blocking priority is nice but have you ever hit that celesteela with a +2 thunderbolt and ohkoed? it's certainly satisfying for me. ep also makes this not bait to muk unlike other variants and also takes care of other steels nicely. certainly much better than lelezam for me, that inherit is grossly overrated imo
-> S (rejected) (+sableye, rampardos)mag's diverse, and it has great power in its comfey set as a revenge killer. but do I think it's S? not really. fires just do this mon in too hard and its low speed and unfortunate typing for sheer force unfortunately means it isn't the ace breaker it could be. and outside of that, like with the other A+ mons I've called S they just aren't consistent enough for me to really categorize them as S ranked. and as for a steel outside of being neutral to focus blast I generally prefer heatran right now as it has a wider list of more powerful inherits that are useful in a metagame where unaware is normal to encounter. honestly don't understand the whole panic around comfeygear rn, it just isn't very powerful and can be just easily resisted by specially defensive mons like lax that just utilize it as setup fodder.
After playing this meta for a while, here are some additional VR donors I would like to add for the pokemon (credit to Drampa's Grandpa's set compendium!).
+Ursaring (gets guts with SD, plus STABs in Play Rough and Thunder Punch)
+Spinda, +Hawlucha (Spinda gives it Superpower and Rock Slide too, but also allows Sucker Punch and elemental punches, but Malamar still stands out due to K-Off and Topsy-Turvy, Hawlucha gives it the great combo of SD + Unburden, which combined with unresisted STABS in Stone Edge and HJK, will sweep and wreck foes.
+Shiftry, -Regice (like Chatot, but rather than Boomburst and Heat Wave, it has Hurricane and Focus Blast, which hit more threats super-effectively. Also, what good does Regice do for it? It has no STABs at all, no boosting move, so what's the point? You're better off using Gyarados or Dragonite.
+Manaphy: Two words: Tail. Glow. It also gets Psychic and Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and Hydration to check some rain teams.
+Hydreigon: I don't know why this was removed, it not only offers it Levitate, which it desperately wants, but also a stallbreaking strategy in Taunt + Roost
+Lucario: Don't know why this is isn't on here, as SD and PixiSpeed is a great offensive cleaning tool, with great coverage in CC or EQ.
+Infernape: Gets Flare Blitz to smoke Cele and Mage, and can pick off foes with Mach Punch too.
+Gumshoos, +Sandslash-Alola Why is this not included? It works great with Gumshoos, providing STABs of Ice Punch and EQ, a pivoting option in U-turn, great coverage in Knock Off or Fire Punch (for Non-Flash Fire Ferrothorn and Celesteela), and a choice of Stakeout or Adaptability. Alternatively, Aloslash gives it SD, and a nifty ability in Slush Rush for hail teams. Overall, I feel this carves a niche over Weavile and should be included in at least B.
Also, remove the stuff in D and C- except for Rotom-H, Scizor-Mega, and Virizion, they are either severely outclassed by other pokemon or are too niche to consider for a team, even if it's not covered by anything else.
I also agree on the argument about unbanning Blaziken. Speed Boost is gone, so it completely removes the otherwise broken aspect of it. As a matter of fact, it would probably only run the aforementioned M-Pull sets mostly, leaving it with lots of competition.
+Spinda, +Hawlucha (Spinda gives it Superpower and Rock Slide too, but also allows Sucker Punch and elemental punches, but Malamar still stands out due to K-Off and Topsy-Turvy, Hawlucha gives it the great combo of SD + Unburden, which combined with unresisted STABS in Stone Edge and HJK, will sweep and wreck foes. +Shiftry, -Regice (like Chatot, but rather than Boomburst and Heat Wave, it has Hurricane and Focus Blast, which hit more threats super-effectively. Also, what good does Regice do for it? It has no STABs at all, no boosting move, so what's the point? You're better off using Gyarados or Dragonite. +Manaphy: Two words: Tail. Glow. It also gets Psychic and Dazzling Gleam for Dark-types, and Hydration to check some rain teams. +Hydreigon: I don't know why this was removed, it not only offers it Levitate, which it desperately wants, but also a stallbreaking strategy in Taunt + Roost +Lucario: Don't know why this is isn't on here, as SD and PixiSpeed is a great offensive cleaning tool, with great coverage in CC or EQ. +Infernape: Gets Flare Blitz to smoke Cele and Mage, and can pick off foes with Mach Punch too. +Gumshoos, +Sandslash-Alola Why is this not included? It works great with Gumshoos, providing STABs of Ice Punch and EQ, a pivoting option in U-turn, great coverage in Knock Off or Fire Punch (for Non-Flash Fire Ferrothorn and Celesteela), and a choice of Stakeout or Adaptability. Alternatively, Aloslash gives it SD, and a nifty ability in Slush Rush for hail teams. Overall, I feel this carves a niche over Weavile and should be included in at least B.Also, remove the stuff in D and C- except for Rotom-H, Scizor-Mega, and Virizion, they are either severely outclassed by other pokemon or are too niche to consider for a team, even if it's not covered by anything else.
I also agree on the argument about unbanning Blaziken. Speed Boost is gone, so it completely removes the otherwise broken aspect of it. As a matter of fact, it would probably only run the aforementioned M-Pull sets mostly, leaving it with lots of competition.
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Inheritance VR Update
A -> A+
A- -> A+
B -> A-
UR -> A-
A -> A-
C+ -> A-
A- -> B
A- -> B-
UR -> C+
The nom of Mega Aerodactyl to B+ was rejected due to a lack of evidence (did add Talonflame as a donor). We did our best to update the donors to reflect the current metagame, we probably won't do any more large updates like this but we can definitely make small additions or changes based on input. In addition, D-rank was removed due to everything in it being bad or largely unproven.
One last announcement: submissions for sample teams are now open. Feel free to submit any teams you feel are solid and represent the metagame well! We'll try and get a samples update through by the end of the weekend.
A -> A+ A- -> A+ B -> A- UR -> A- A -> A- C+ -> A- A- -> B A- -> B- UR -> C+The nom of Mega Aerodactyl to B+ was rejected due to a lack of evidence (did add Talonflame as a donor). We did our best to update the donors to reflect the current metagame, we probably won't do any more large updates like this but we can definitely make small additions or changes based on input. In addition, D-rank was removed due to everything in it being bad or largely unproven.
One last announcement: submissions for sample teams are now open. Feel free to submit any teams you feel are solid and represent the metagame well! We'll try and get a samples update through by the end of the weekend.
I was debating what type of post to make to commemorate the end of Inheritance's reign as (the best) OMOTM, and I settled on some mixture of sample team submission, set dump, and metagame thoughts. This might be a long post, so without further ado...
Mega Ampharos Balance:
https://pokepast.es/e3915ae6905a1cea
I wanted to build around Mega Ampharos, who absolutely dumps on any stall build lacking one of two relatively specific answers: AV Goodra with Dragon Tail, or Blissey with Metal Burst/Mirror Coat. A single TG allows it to cleanly OHKO specially defensive Mega Sableye, while the speed lets it get the jump on neutral Swampert to avoid taking an Earthquake. The rest of the EVs go into HP to help tank electric spam with fire coverage or flying moves, and it's actually a useful lead against hyper offense capable of boosting with prankster before Zeraora taunts it. Its defensive utility and mold breaker for unaware/sap sipper were the reasons I chose Amphy over things like Boomburst M-Garde or MegaZardY as a stallbreaker. Since Ampharos has a rough time against more aggressive builds, the rest of the team is engineered to take on as many threats as possible with as few team slots - such is the challenge of building a balance team in Inheritance.
Volcanion is one of the few true counters to MawileKoko, and helps against Koko inherits like scarf Xurkitree and Victini inherits like Alolawak. Muk stops Lele inherits cold and is generally an excellent special sponge, especially with Sheer Force Gengars running around everywhere. Rapid Spin is always useful, and Haze guarantees you don't lose to Comfey Mag or bulky Quiver Dancers. Fini is Fini, pitching in against random boosters and stopping Keldeo. Heal Bell support is essential so stall can't wear down Amphy. Levitate Doublade ends Unburden Landorus and Head Smashers, while Flash Fire Buzzwole is a holdover from my last team. This variant is more offensive and takes out Snorlaxes before they can Curse on you.
Threats include mixed LO Toucannon-Archeops (overheat is a problem for Doublade), physical hazard-stacking teams with tons of u-turn, and specialized stall. My team is low on momentum and not the easiest to use, but it gives the user a fighting chance against any playstyle you might find on the ladder.
Other sets I enjoyed using include:
PriorityBug #1 (Buzzwole) @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 216 HP / 184 Atk / 88 Def / 20 Spe (but really whatever you want)
Adamant/Impish Nature
- Mach Punch
- U-turn/Ice Punch
- Swords Dance/Drain Punch
- Roost/Drain Punch/Ice Punch
I know I already used one on my team but Buzzwole is an incredibly good mon in this meta, and inheriting from everyone's favorite ladybug gives it all the tools. This set is very customizeable, and can be tipped in an offensive or defensive direction depending on what the team needs. Having a resist to 1K arrows is always handy too.
PriorityBug #2 (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Storm Throw
- Thunder Punch
Mega Ampharos isn't for everyone. If you're looking for a mega that does better against offense but can still pull its weight against stall, this one's for you. The speed ensures that base form Scizor outspeeds Suicune and bops it with a +2 Thunder Punch, regardless of unaware. Once things like motor drive Pex/Steela and unaware Cune are gone, mega evolve and shred things with Scizor's patented technician + BP combo. Storm Throw hits things incredibly hard (+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert on a critical hit: 277-327 (68.5 - 80.9%)) and means PH CurseLax will never be a problem, no matter how many boosts it has. Lack of recovery kinda sucks but oh well. Drop some Wish support on this thing if you want it to reach its full potential. Its biggest downside is a killer vulnerability to magnet pull, since most (read: all) relevant pullers resist Bullet Punch.
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
Want free turns against unaware mons? This Gengar gives that to you. NP up on some poor Suicune or Fini that can't touch you or show off some rad prediction skills and bop the switchin. HP EVs give you an extra turn of survival against Night Shade after rocks against something like MBounce Blissey, but it's niche so maximizing SpA is a good idea too. Gengar has the added bonus of not caring about choiced Keldeo unless you get predicted right back.
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Have fun switching into this thing. With the right prediction only the bulkiest of special walls are safe, and they don't enjoy leftovers being nullified by the hail. With good hazard support, this can really put bulkier builds on their back foot. Watch out for Blizzard's low PP however.
Mamoswine @ Red Card
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
My favorite anti-lead. All but guarantees you come out of a lead matchup with Zeraora or Ninjask favorably. Not much else to it, but for as long as HO teams go with their favorite electric weasel thing as an opener, Mamoswine will have a place in my heart. And finally:
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Psychic
- Giga Drain/Bug Buzz
I never got around to using this in a match because Alolan Muks were everywhere and it doesn't quite have the power to muscle through the bulkiest unawares, but given the right team support it can be devastating. EVs ensure Tapu Koko is outsped after a single dance, and the rest is maxing SpA and buffing bulk.
As far as the meta goes, I think it ended on a fairly balanced note. It tends to reward players who focus on certain playstyles, and it's very rewarding to find that one mon who can break through the stall you've been stonewalled against or that one wall to save your team from a threat. It's a metagame that encourages creativity, which is why it's my favorite.
My biggest ban/suspect candidate for next round (if this meta and all like it are not slaughtered by the impending doomsday that is the Sword/Shield release)? Inheriting from Lucario. Lucario alone gives SD+Espeed+Close Combat/Meteor Mash, which makes megas like Mawile, Medicham, and to a lesser extent Lopunny massive threats. But that alone isn't reason enough for concern. As is common with banworthy threats, Lucario's more-than-expansive movepool allows the mon to pick and choose what it's checked by. Blaze kick, earthquake, ice/thunder punch, bullet punch, crunch, shadow claw, stone edge, poison jab, hell even final gambit. This thing is so unpredictable yet you already know what it automatically destroys thanks to donating boosting along with the best priority in the game. In my opinion it should be scratched from the donor list because of all these advantages. Need espeed and close combat/iron head with fire coverage? Use Arcanine. Want a swords dancer with close combat and priority? Infernape is available too. But combining the two things makes huge power megas too much to deal with for the vast majority of offensive teams.
That's all from me. Thanks for ending gen 7 with the best OMOTM.
Mega Ampharos Balance:
https://pokepast.es/e3915ae6905a1cea
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 192 HP / 184 SpA / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Tail Glow
- Roost
Volcanion @ Firium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 128 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic/Thunderbolt
Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpD / 92 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Haze/Poison Jab
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 24 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic Spikes
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest/Pain Split
Buzzwole @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 216 HP / 184 Atk / 88 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Morning Sun
- Megahorn
- Low Kick
- Flare Blitz
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 192 HP / 184 SpA / 132 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Giga Drain
- Tail Glow
- Roost
Volcanion @ Firium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 128 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic/Thunderbolt
Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 168 SpD / 92 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Haze/Poison Jab
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 24 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic Spikes
- Will-O-Wisp
- Rest/Pain Split
Buzzwole @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 216 HP / 184 Atk / 88 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Morning Sun
- Megahorn
- Low Kick
- Flare Blitz
Volcanion is one of the few true counters to MawileKoko, and helps against Koko inherits like scarf Xurkitree and Victini inherits like Alolawak. Muk stops Lele inherits cold and is generally an excellent special sponge, especially with Sheer Force Gengars running around everywhere. Rapid Spin is always useful, and Haze guarantees you don't lose to Comfey Mag or bulky Quiver Dancers. Fini is Fini, pitching in against random boosters and stopping Keldeo. Heal Bell support is essential so stall can't wear down Amphy. Levitate Doublade ends Unburden Landorus and Head Smashers, while Flash Fire Buzzwole is a holdover from my last team. This variant is more offensive and takes out Snorlaxes before they can Curse on you.
Threats include mixed LO Toucannon-Archeops (overheat is a problem for Doublade), physical hazard-stacking teams with tons of u-turn, and specialized stall. My team is low on momentum and not the easiest to use, but it gives the user a fighting chance against any playstyle you might find on the ladder.
Other sets I enjoyed using include:
PriorityBug #1 (Buzzwole) @ Life Orb/Leftovers/Assault Vest/Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 216 HP / 184 Atk / 88 Def / 20 Spe (but really whatever you want)
Adamant/Impish Nature
- Mach Punch
- U-turn/Ice Punch
- Swords Dance/Drain Punch
- Roost/Drain Punch/Ice Punch
I know I already used one on my team but Buzzwole is an incredibly good mon in this meta, and inheriting from everyone's favorite ladybug gives it all the tools. This set is very customizeable, and can be tipped in an offensive or defensive direction depending on what the team needs. Having a resist to 1K arrows is always handy too.
PriorityBug #2 (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Storm Throw
- Thunder Punch
Mega Ampharos isn't for everyone. If you're looking for a mega that does better against offense but can still pull its weight against stall, this one's for you. The speed ensures that base form Scizor outspeeds Suicune and bops it with a +2 Thunder Punch, regardless of unaware. Once things like motor drive Pex/Steela and unaware Cune are gone, mega evolve and shred things with Scizor's patented technician + BP combo. Storm Throw hits things incredibly hard (+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert on a critical hit: 277-327 (68.5 - 80.9%)) and means PH CurseLax will never be a problem, no matter how many boosts it has. Lack of recovery kinda sucks but oh well. Drop some Wish support on this thing if you want it to reach its full potential. Its biggest downside is a killer vulnerability to magnet pull, since most (read: all) relevant pullers resist Bullet Punch.
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 160 HP / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Taunt
Want free turns against unaware mons? This Gengar gives that to you. NP up on some poor Suicune or Fini that can't touch you or show off some rad prediction skills and bop the switchin. HP EVs give you an extra turn of survival against Night Shade after rocks against something like MBounce Blissey, but it's niche so maximizing SpA is a good idea too. Gengar has the added bonus of not caring about choiced Keldeo unless you get predicted right back.
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Have fun switching into this thing. With the right prediction only the bulkiest of special walls are safe, and they don't enjoy leftovers being nullified by the hail. With good hazard support, this can really put bulkier builds on their back foot. Watch out for Blizzard's low PP however.
Mamoswine @ Red Card
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
My favorite anti-lead. All but guarantees you come out of a lead matchup with Zeraora or Ninjask favorably. Not much else to it, but for as long as HO teams go with their favorite electric weasel thing as an opener, Mamoswine will have a place in my heart. And finally:
Mew @ Mewnium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Psychic
- Giga Drain/Bug Buzz
I never got around to using this in a match because Alolan Muks were everywhere and it doesn't quite have the power to muscle through the bulkiest unawares, but given the right team support it can be devastating. EVs ensure Tapu Koko is outsped after a single dance, and the rest is maxing SpA and buffing bulk.
As far as the meta goes, I think it ended on a fairly balanced note. It tends to reward players who focus on certain playstyles, and it's very rewarding to find that one mon who can break through the stall you've been stonewalled against or that one wall to save your team from a threat. It's a metagame that encourages creativity, which is why it's my favorite.
My biggest ban/suspect candidate for next round (if this meta and all like it are not slaughtered by the impending doomsday that is the Sword/Shield release)? Inheriting from Lucario. Lucario alone gives SD+Espeed+Close Combat/Meteor Mash, which makes megas like Mawile, Medicham, and to a lesser extent Lopunny massive threats. But that alone isn't reason enough for concern. As is common with banworthy threats, Lucario's more-than-expansive movepool allows the mon to pick and choose what it's checked by. Blaze kick, earthquake, ice/thunder punch, bullet punch, crunch, shadow claw, stone edge, poison jab, hell even final gambit. This thing is so unpredictable yet you already know what it automatically destroys thanks to donating boosting along with the best priority in the game. In my opinion it should be scratched from the donor list because of all these advantages. Need espeed and close combat/iron head with fire coverage? Use Arcanine. Want a swords dancer with close combat and priority? Infernape is available too. But combining the two things makes huge power megas too much to deal with for the vast majority of offensive teams.
That's all from me. Thanks for ending gen 7 with the best OMOTM.
Why is groundon not banned. it gets drought boosted eruption. like torkal. wich got banned.
Edit : ubers are banned:(
Edit : ubers are banned:(
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