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Hahahaha, that was great. I managed to get two Silver Wind boosts on my Drifblim at once, along with 2 SpAtk boosts from Charge Beam. Passed all these over to Tangrowth and took down 3 Pokés... Then when the obvious Specsmence came, I switched to Heatran and *easily* sweeped the reast of his team.
edit: made all the boring stuff tiny so you don't have to read through it.
It went something like this.
Gyarados use Dragon Dance!
Dirfblim uses Charge Beam on Gyarados!
It's super effective! SpAtk+!
Gyarados uses Stone Edge! Drifblim lols @ your accuracy!
Drifblim uses Charge Beam on Gyarados!
2HKO! SpAtk+!
Go Alakanub!
Kazam uses Calm Mind!
Drifblim uses Silver Wind on Alakazam!
It's super effective!
Drifblim's Attack rose! etc
Alakazam uses somethingirrelevant!
Drifblim eats its salac berry!
(lol, with unburden that means he has 3 speed boosts now)
Drifblim uses Silver Wind!
Attack etc rose!(4 speed boosts, 3 passable, lol)

Then, I use my Go-Firstness to BP over to Tangrowth...
Alakazam uses whateveritused!

Tangrowth used Sunny Day!
Alakazam continued to not be good against my doubled spdef and massive HP!

Alakazam was withdrawn from battle!
Go, Tyranipwned!
Tangrowth used Grass Knot (OHKO)
Go, Alakazam!
Sunny Day from Tangy
More crappy attacks from Kazam
Morning sun takes off all my damage
More crappy attacks from Kazam
Grass Knot kills it, even though it was already so low.

Foe sends out Weavile (lol @ trying to use physical ice on a physical wall)
Tangrowth uses Focus Blast!
It misses, and Weavile smirks.
Weavile uses Ice Punch!
Stopped dead in its tracks by Tangy's doubled def over 700! Weavile shits itself!
Tangrowth uses Focus Blast. Weavile dies dead.

Foe sends out Specsmence!
Come back, Tangrowth, even though I wish I could BP your stat boosts!
Go, Heatran!
Specsmence uses Flamethrower!
Activates Flash Fire!

Nubmence, come back!

The rest is history. He switched from Specsmence to Blissey, who I thoroughly raped using SpAtk.
Heatran uses Fire Blast! (70% damage to Blissey)
......Lmfao! XD
Heatran goes before Blissey and uses Overheat! Blissey dies! XD
He sends out Salamence!
Salamence uses Hydro Pump! (only 66% thanks to Sunny Day)
Heatran uses Explosion! OHKO! XD

Well, if it can 2HKO Blissey with Neutral-typed SpAtk, it's alright in my book. XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD XD I think my new physical wall is gonna be Tangrowth... Hell, I could make a Sunny Day based set to help Tangrowth or Heatran both get in and do their thing. Either way, I think this is my favorite combination ever. XD! I was so shocked when I raped Blissey for 70% that I just said to my opponent... "Holy fuck."
 
Absolutely beautiful thread, truely. Two of my all-time favorites (guess!) come together for some sweet, sweet team raping. Honestly, I'd love to try these two with a really slow Groudon in Ubers. You definitely need more "opposing special attack" insurance in Ubers, though, since Rain will always be more popular there and, well... yeah.

If Tangrowth runs Sleep Powder over Sunny Day (since you can't stay in on Kyogre anyway), then I think he'll find a niche in the team once more, even with Groudon around.

...so sexy it's rediculous.
 
Oh, wow. I completely miscalculated the speed on Tangrowth. I took a look at Serebii and forgot that those stats factor in EVs ... I feel stupid. What a dumb move to follow up such an awesome idea.

Well, actually, the spread still works wonders. 16 EVs in Speed hits a speed of 280 after Sunny Day, which out-speeds all neutral-natured 252 Speed EVs 90-based Pokemon. Still a great spread =D.

Oh, and one more thing to note. One of Heatran's weaknesses, Water, is halved in Sunny Day, helping even survive Surfs and Hydro Pumps and Waterfalls, =p.
 
futuresuperstar said:
Oh, and one more thing to note. One of Heatran's weaknesses, Water, is halved in Sunny Day, helping even survive Surfs and Hydro Pumps and Waterfalls, =p.
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Yeah, like I survived a Hydro Pump from Specsmence in my little warstory up above. It's basically like he's neutral to water instead of weak. This also means Tangrowth essentially gets a 4x resist to water in the sun, gladly coming in on any water attack, even something like STAB'd surf.
 
I really love this idea, considering Tangrowth is my favorite 4th Gen Poke and one of my favorites ever.

I'll try and build this into a team somehow.
 
Familiar Trainer said:
Find a good Morning Sun Tangela on WiFi?

The only thing about this combo that worries me is Morning Sun Tangela's availability. I have XD, but I doubt I'm willing to take the extreme process of getting a good one. First of all, you need a good nature/IVs. AND you might get Leaf Guard after Pal Parking over and evolving it into Tangrowth. AND you can even see the nature of a Pokemon on XD until you almost completely purify it. AND you don't have a Master Ball on you when you first meet Shadow Tangela, so it must be caught normally.

For those who don't have XD, that is a MUCH, MUCH longer process then catching a good Cresselia.

For Competitor though, this looks great.
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Well there you go, you even said that it'd be a pain for you to get Morning Sun. What's the chances then of someone on Wi-Fi having a good Bold one?

I'm just asking if something like Leech Seed would work there if you can't use Morning Sun.
 
General Tso said:
Well there you go, you even said that it'd be a pain for you to get Morning Sun. What's the chances then of someone on Wi-Fi having a good Bold one?

I'm just asking if something like Leech Seed would work there if you can't use Morning Sun.
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About the same as the chances of finding a hacker on WiFi.
High.
 
Completely updated the topic:

- Added the main sets and new explanations.
- Corrected speed mistake, but justified same spread.
- Added more information about resistances and weaknesses.
- Took out alternatives to the set, since this is far and away the best option.
- Noted the lack of water-move efficiency in Sunny Day.
- Addressed Heatran's speed, and why it really does not matter in most cases.
- Adjusted explanations of moves with Life Orb instead of Choice Scarf / Choice Specs.
 
What? I completely changed the analysis of everything. The only mention of Solarbeam, at all, is in reference to its other strongest "trap-inviting" attack, under bolded "Focus Blast."
 
Grass Knot is a staple of any Sunny Day set. With a base special attack of 110, STAB, and the Effort Values in special attack, this puts a large dent into anything that does not resist it. The following types resist Grass Knot -- Bug, Dragon, Fire, Flying, Grass, Poison, and Steel. Yes, that is quite a bit, but fear not. Its purpose is hardly to sweep the opposing team. Obviously, with Sunny Day in effect, the charge-up of this attack is nullified.
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It's just a little nitpick, though.
 
Anything that is extremely small that I would have to worry about falls under Focus Blast. Sure, Vaporeon might get a little boost, but Heatran resists Ice, remember?
 
Boa1891 said:
Ah, Grass Knot. The debate against you is that you suck on anything that's not collosal-sized.
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Uh, that includes who? Manaphy (who may be banned to Uber play), Lanturn (the premier OU special wall!!), and possibly Vaporeon, if I'm remembering correctly.

Grass Knot is almost always superior to Energy Ball, at least in OU.
 
Question: Heatran's speed is not exactly that great. How will I survive to take advantage of my huge attack?
Answer: Your first move will almost always be a first strike -- when your opponent feeds you fire and sees the increase, they will likely use the next turn to switch to a counter.
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Infernape used Close Combat. This is not situational. Infernape is by far the most likely user of Fire moves, and Heatran has no business switching in. You better have something good waiting in the wings to deal with Infernape, which reminds me. Where is the rest of your team? This should really be in the RMT section along with the rest of your team, explaining how each fits in with this central idea, and what your Plan B is. That forum is desperately short of well thought out and thoroughly explained ideas like yours at the moment.

Tangrowth @ Heat Rock
Bold, Chlorophyll, 240 HP / 152 Defense / 100 Sp.Atk / 16 Speed
- Sunny Day
- Morning Sun
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast

Grass Knot does everything Solarbeam does without the possibility of screwing me over, is always viable, and hits Tyranitar for 360 damage. It does 3/4 the damage that Focus Blast does. It's a 2HKO, even with the Sandstorm boost. Tyranitar cannot safely switch in on me. Focus Blast threatens a OHKO without sandstorm after Sunny Day. No matter when or how Tyranitar comes in, I will always be able to Sunny Day -> Morning Sun, completely healing me before a second Stone Edge since I will move first. Grass Knot hits Gyarados just as hard as Solarbeam, as well. It cannot afford to come in on an attack, either. There you go. Tyranitar cannot switch in. It really cannot.
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Perhaps you should take a look at my second RMT 'U Got Boned in U-Tar!' which includes Trick Room/U-Turn Uxie and a bulky, Sp.Def oriented Ttar. Uxie easily takes Tangrowth's attacks, allowing ample time to set up TrickTurn for Ttar, who would then be faster and may well carry Ice Beam over HP Grass. He also easily takes Grass Knot or Focus blast in the sand, believe it or not. I also wouldn't have any qualms about switching it in to a boosted Heatran, thus getting rid of the sun and comfortably taking Overheat. I have always been teetering between HP Grass and Ice Beam on Ttar, but if this idea catches on, there is no question which one I'd be running.
These points are not to undermine your idea in any way. Far from it, I like the idea. All I am saying is, whilst your idea is very good, it is far from gamebreaking, and there are some situations where Ttar can get in safely. You cannot just assume the CB version every time.
 
This... is... insane. An insane work to get a Morning Sun Tangela, as is.

... Also, Overheat can be used a second time, still with a whopping 307 attack, nearly as powerful as Draco Meteor from standard Choice Specs Salamence. Even a third time still packs a punch of 157 attack, stronger than a standard STAB Flamethrower. This thing is lethal.
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The good part is this Overheat's minimum Base Power is 157. Heatran kicks asses.
 
Surf is frequently accompanied by Ice Beam which unfortunately means death for Tangrowth and his pathetic special defense. There are many better choices than Tangrowth to compliment Heatran.

Heatran is by far my favorite 4th gen poke, but it has a bit of a problem with some of the game's better offensive combos. He resists ice but is weak to water, and resists ghost/dark but is weak to fighting. He also takes neutral damage from the bolt half of boltbeam, and let's not talk about quakeslide.

Celebi would be my personal choice (if i could get my hands on a legal one, that is) since he resists fighting, ground and water, and can even handle some ice beams and shadow balls. Mantine would be another awesome compliment, but lacks the electric resistance and general usefulness of Celebi. Personally, i've just been using Cresselia, who resists Fighting, is immune to most EQs, and takes surfs like a champ, while Heatran resists ghost and dark and has a 4X resistance to bug.
 
At least with Tangrowth Tyranitar won't walk so much over you... with Cresselia or Celebi you don't get the same advantage.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Infernape used Close Combat. This is not situational. Infernape is by far the most likely user of Fire moves, and Heatran has no business switching in. You better have something good waiting in the wings to deal with Infernape, which reminds me. Where is the rest of your team? This should really be in the RMT section along with the rest of your team, explaining how each fits in with this central idea, and what your Plan B is. That forum is desperately short of well thought out and thoroughly explained ideas like yours at the moment.
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Infernape is not used nearly as much nowadays, for the record. But, yes, Infernape poses some problems. Now, just to let you go, a full-health Heatran can survive many forms of Infernape's Close Combat, and it will OHKO back with Fire Blast or Overheat. That said, simply switch in something else -- you should have another good defensive Pokemon on your team, anyway. I personally run Cresselia with this with the boosted Moonlight. But, this was not a "Rate My Team." It was a completely new idea for a set combination between Heatran and Tangrowth. Infernape is one of the very few Pokemon that can threaten Heatran with priority following a fire-switch-in. Besides, most fire moves these days are seen from other Pokemon that are not of the fire-type.

Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Perhaps you should take a look at my second RMT 'U Got Boned in U-Tar!' which includes Trick Room/U-Turn Uxie and a bulky, Sp.Def oriented Ttar. Uxie easily takes Tangrowth's attacks, allowing ample time to set up TrickTurn for Ttar, who would then be faster and may well carry Ice Beam over HP Grass. He also easily takes Grass Knot or Focus blast in the sand, believe it or not. I also wouldn't have any qualms about switching it in to a boosted Heatran, thus getting rid of the sun and comfortably taking Overheat. I have always been teetering between HP Grass and Ice Beam on Ttar, but if this idea catches on, there is no question which one I'd be running.
These points are not to undermine your idea in any way. Far from it, I like the idea. All I am saying is, whilst your idea is very good, it is far from gamebreaking, and there are some situations where Ttar can get in safely. You cannot just assume the CB version every time.
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I personally have *never* seen a Tyranitar carry Ice Beam, but I will not doubt that they exist. But, you are very wrong that he "easily" takes it. For one, he does not. A Max Special Defense / HP, Special Defense-boosting nature Tyranitar with Sand Stream in effect still falls to two Focus Blasts. Grass Knot is a 2HKO on Tyranitar during Sand Storms in most cases. Without Sandstorm, both become easy 2HKOs. The second Tyranitar switched in, Tangrowth can just use Sunny Day again, then Morning Sun to heal any of that damage. And, your idea would not work -- if Tyranitar switched in and activated Sand Stream, Tangrowth would lose Sunny Day and its speed increase and therefore be "slower" than Tyranitar. Meaning it would go first in Trick Room. Also, Tangrowth can probably survive an un-boosted Ice Beam from Tyranitar if a mis-predict was to happen. That is why I also run this with Wish support. The thing is, it really *will* fall to Tangrowth's moves, and if it switches in on Grass Knot, it is *hardly* a free switch-in.

Hrothgar said:
Surf is frequently accompanied by Ice Beam which unfortunately means death for Tangrowth and his pathetic special defense. There are many better choices than Tangrowth to compliment Heatran.

Heatran is by far my favorite 4th gen poke, but it has a bit of a problem with some of the game's better offensive combos. He resists ice but is weak to water, and resists ghost/dark but is weak to fighting. He also takes neutral damage from the bolt half of boltbeam, and let's not talk about quakeslide.

Celebi would be my personal choice (if i could get my hands on a legal one, that is) since he resists fighting, ground and water, and can even handle some ice beams and shadow balls. Mantine would be another awesome compliment, but lacks the electric resistance and general usefulness of Celebi. Personally, i've just been using Cresselia, who resists Fighting, is immune to most EQs, and takes surfs like a champ, while Heatran resists ghost and dark and has a 4X resistance to bug.
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I have gone over many other options that are more well-suited for the combination, and there are none. Tangrowth and Heatran every single weakness between them with strong resistances and immunities with the exception of fighting. After Chlorophyll sets in, most of those water-types with Surf and Ice Beam will be slower than Tangrowth, and in almost all cases (with the sole exceptions of Manaphy and Vaporeon), Grass Knot will OHKO their asses -- this is why there are those 100 Effort Values in Sp.Atk. You generally do not have to worry about those Ice Beams since they can be seen coming a mile away. Additionally, Heatran is neutral to water during Sunny Day, so it takes much less damage from them. Also, without Tangrowth, you lose the physical walling and the ability to take Tyranitar down.
 
And, your idea would not work -- if Tyranitar switched in and activated Sand Stream, Tangrowth would lose Sunny Day and its speed increase and therefore be "slower" than Tyranitar. Meaning it would go first in Trick Room.
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My Ttar is Sassy and has 120 Spd at Lv.100, therefore it always goes first regardless. The idea of Uxie U-Turning after Trick Room is to take the hit before switching out for Ttar, hence a safe entry into battle. Granted, you may reply saying that Tangrowth will move last against Uxie during Sunny Day, nevertheless, with U-Turn, the switch-out is never a blind one, as I know whether you are switching out or attacking a predicted switch-in. If the latter was the case, I'd just bring out something else to take on Tangrowth, most likely Dusknoir. If the former is the case, you've got problems.
 
Yup, they both works very well with each other. They can shrug off alot of stuff. Their really hard to damage.

Boa1891 used that pair against me. He managed to take down several of my pokemon with it.

I'll have to try it myself.
 
futuresuperstar said:
Now, just to let you go, a full-health Heatran can survive many forms of Infernape's Close Combat, and it will OHKO back with Fire Blast or Overheat.
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Sadly, Heatran got OHKOed in BT by an infernape's Close Combat, and then Tangrowth got OHKOed by Flare Blitz in the sun >_>. With only three Pokémon, it's hard to prepare for something like that- Though I guess if I had a full 6 it wouldn't have been a problem.

@Death: That was a good fight, by the way. Nice to see you post :P
 
this combination is almost perfect. nice thread as u explained everything. i know no combo can be super special awesome that always works. its about prediction. unless something bad happens this combo is perfect. i mean mostly powerful physical attacks barely works. unless a baton passer shows up its really great. i mean hmm what about a ninjask? even with max power def? i mean would the team have problems so to back up need new pokes in team to support?
 
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