Other Is Weather Still Viable?

[Beast Mode]

The End of Weather?

As we all know, weather received a large nerf in this gen, changing from perma whether to weather only lasting five turns. This is what many people called for last gen because most teams utilized weather. But this begs the question, is weather still usable and if so, how often will it be used? Personally I think it is still viable but it will obviously decrease in usage.

Lets take a look at the weather starters and the changes this gen brought:

Politoad:

• Rain only lasts five turns (eight with damp rock)
• Politoad didn't gain any moves or any noticeable rain sweepers
• Swift Swim will probably be unbanned due to lack of perma-weather

Abomasnow:

• Abomasnow got a mega-evolution, not sure how viable it will be because it gained more power but now has terrible speed. It could be a great trick room sweeper
• Hail gained no new buffs which many people wanted
• Loses its niche of being anti-weather

Tyranitar/Hippowdon:

• Both still great pokemon that serve their roles well
• Mega-TTar
• Excadrill might be unbanned giving sand more power

Ninetales/Charizard-Y:

• Pretty much nothing gained, no new sweepers or anything of the sort.
• Charizard-Y gets drought, still has 4X stealth rock weakness but easier to play around because of defog

I am curious weather or not (pun completely intended) weather is a viable strategy and if people will use it.

Edit: Reinfleche lol that wasn't supposed to be there

 

[ariariadne]

It'll still show up, and still have its place as a viable option, but it will not be as dominant.

What is the H under sand supposed to be for, by the way?

 

[LightningLord2]

Sun and Rain are definitely going to be a notable force, due to the weather rocks giving 10 turns now. Furthermore, unlike Sandstorm and Hail, these weathers aren't as dependent on passive damage, instead boosting attacks, allowing them to take a more offensive route (which is preferable in non-permanent weather). It won't be a rain-centered metagame, but weather will still be very powerful.

 

[GDK]

Sun won't be played that much because it requires some set up.
Drought charizard hits like a truck though but he can be used just to hit hard, not to set up weather for other pokemon.

Politoed might suffer, it was NU in 4th gen and only went OU because of drizzle.
Rain stall is dead for sure.

Hail was never a big deal.

I don't know how sand wil be affected.

 

[Anartya]

Sun teams can utilize Mega Houndoom with Solar Power

 

[Lazybeef]

Weather starters will probably use their weather themselves, because it is a hassle to switch out to a weather dependant sweeper when you don't have permanent weather. Politoed can still use it's own rain for a choice specs set (still very powerful). Tyranitar can still use it's sand to tank special attacks, abomasnow has a niche as a trick room sweeper and can use hail to spam blizzards.

 

[Verminator]

Absolutely. Manual Weather teams were still pretty solid in the days before permanent weather, and the ability to instantly summon weather on switchin is still a major advantage over that strategy.

due to the weather rocks giving 10 turns now.

Woah, I didn't even know this. Obviously Toed, Tales and Tar have to forgo their lefties / choice items to take advantage of this (and TTar can't use its mega form,) but if this is true then it might not even feel like perma-weather ever left. 10 turns is a significant amount of time.

 

[Haruno]

Yes, albeit not as powerful as before but a specs ogre still ohko's or at worst 2hkos the whole tier.

 

[azureleaf17]

This discussion has already been started here, so let's not start threads that have already been created. I know that it's not the same question, but it's talking about the exact same thing. Can we lock this thread?

 

[dende5416]

I suspect you might see a bit more of Abomasnow, now, with the weather nerf. Viable hail teams were damned hard to build, but Aboma coming out and slamming with auto-hit blizzard, with proper team support, can be devastating.

 

[verycoolguy]

Although Hail has pretty much lost any viability, I would say the weather nerf actually helps Abomasnow if you want to use him for his Mega Evo for a Trick Room team and not for Hail, that way the other teammates don't have to deal with residual damage.

 

[hinode]

Just to be clear: weather rocks have been tested and are still eight turns, not ten.

 

[-Nitro-]

It's been said 100 times before. Weather was used in DPPt before auto-weather, and was actually WORSE back then.

Compared to Gen IV, there are a few advantages.

- While not permanent, there are pokemon with access to drought and drizzle available.
- Before, sand and hail were permanent if Tyranitar or Abomasnow swapped in to kill your weather. Now, it's only 5 turns.
- Pokemon have a few hidden abilities, some of which deal with weather as well.

The only thing the weather nerf did was make it so weather teams weren't practically mandatory.

Just to be clear: weather rocks have been tested and are still eight turns, not ten.

I think people are talking about using Sunny Day with a heat rock, not drought with a heat rock. I'll go test the actual moves asap though and post my results.

EDIT: Yeah, sunny day is 8 turns with heat rock. Just confirmed in game.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I think people are talking about using Sunny Day with a heat rock, not drought with a heat rock. I'll go test the actual moves asap though and post my results.

Well, in this video, Sand Stream with Smooth Rock lasts 8 turns. It would only make sense that it works the same for drought:

OT: I think sand will be similarly as effective as before, if played correctly. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are still excellent Pokemon on their own, but the only difference now is that they can't provide themselves as death fodder anymore if they want to keep sand up throughout the match. Additionally, it will be much harder to find the time to sweep with Sand Rush Excadrill unless Tyranitar and/or Hippo use Smooth Rock. He also gained a few checks and counters since the last time he was banned.

Drizzle teams got shafted the most by the new rule, as Politoed is not good a good Pokemon on his own, and the fact that Drizzle is temporary makes it so much harder for him to carry the weight of an entire team on his shoulders. I would say the same thing about Drought teams, but those gained Mega Charizard-Y, who is actually pretty damn good.

And yeah, it's depressing that Hail (and the Ice-type in general) didn't gain any notable buffs, other than Snow Warning Aurorus. I hope Gamefreak eventually gives the type some much-needed support.

 

[TLCJR4LIFE]

In my opinion Sand will still be tremendous.

T-Tar does not need to use a weather rock to be effective with Sand... The way I feel about weather is instead of it being an all encompassing game changer, it will be one of those things like Trick Room or screens that turns the tide of the battle. You may not be running a "sand team", but you can still be damn sure there will be tons of weapons to pair with T-Tar in that short 5 turn span such as Landorus I with Sand Force and Excadril with Sand Rush...

 

[TheWorm55]

Well Tyranitar won't need the weather rock because thinking about it, you could just use the mega stone but not mega evolve it until your current weather is disrupted, then mega evolve it and get sand back, effectively making it 10 turns. That also gives sand the advantage of being an even better anti-weather. Though you probably shouldn't expect Tyranitar to last 5 turns without switching or leftovers recovery.

Sand is probably going to be the best weather anyway as its inducers are good mons even outside their weather, whereas Politoed and Ninetales would be NU otherwise. Excadrill and Landorus I, as stated above, will also be OU again, giving sand very viable offensive options.

 

[SlaXer]

Hail got hit the hardest. Even though Abomanow got a mega and a new Pokemon got Snow Warning (aurorus) the main gimick of Hail, Ice body, is now useless and stuff like Stallrein is dead for good. The nerf to Blizzard BP is just the nail in the coffin.

 

[sidakarya]

Weather will surely be viable. In fact, Rain and even Sun teams are more viable than in DPPt, where there were no auto-inducers and Sandstream was an ever-present, permanent force. Rain teams in Gen 6 seem to play more like the Gen 4; a group of hyper-offence Swift Swim sweepers backed by a few bulky Rain-setters, just that Politoed is there to skip the manual rain turn.

Sand is the weather I think will be dominant, if only because of T-Tar and Hippowdon (which are used for more things than sand). Excadrill might see some use as a fast revenge-killer.

Hail is really unlucky this time. Even though it got M-Abomasnow and Aurorus, they still have the two worst defensive typings in the game and the main selling point of hail, Stallrein, is effectively neutered.

 

[Thorhammer]

It'll be neat seeing offensive Rain teams based around Damp Rock Politoed. It can boost stuff like Kingdra for a while, and they can have a Rain Dance user waiting in the wings to refresh it if Politoed dies or needs to stay back. Because of the limited duration, it shouldn't be ridiculous like in Gen 5; it'll be limited to quick strategies that can easily be disrupted by anything slowing them down. Moves like Protect and Substitute will be really convenient for messing up weather teams if they get to be a big threat: stuff with Prankster like Klefki could even set up Subs in the face of speedy weather abusers and alternate with Protect to stall out the weather. Obviously, this wouldn't work against Pokemon armed with their own weather-inducing move, though, and it's not that easy to fit into a team, but it's a workable last-ditch effort if necessary.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Politoed is there to skip the manual rain turn.

I actually think that, in some ways, Politoed is worse than manual rain inducers like Azelf and Uxie. Back in Gen IV, they were tremendously reliable in setting up rain and proceeding to use Explosion or Memento. Politoed has no method of sacking himself to bring in a sweeper for free, which will force rain teams to rely on some sort of defensive core or a series of pivots to switch into attacks directed at Politoed.

This isn't to say that rain teams will stop using Politoed outright, but I wage that they will rely more on Rain Dance than on Politoed himself.

 

[Frenzy Tree]

I think, with weather being limited to five (8 if u sacrifice leftovers for rocks) turns, (protect-)stalling pokemon will see new light. That means the weatherinducer must be kept alive for the whole battle and not only until you have won the weatherwar. In my opinion the new metagame will probably focus even more on the weather now, since it remains the most potent force on the field.

 

[SkaterTrainer]

We need a PSA that weather with their rocks do NOT LAST 10 TURNS they continue to last 8. This is almost as bad as greninja with rapid spin debacle

Weather will still be viable, but not dominant as it was last gen. People need to see the difference. It was viable in gen 4 in UU and below, with autostarters and good abusers they can still work in OU but not be as dominant as last gen.

 

[CTypo]

The benefits of sand are almost entirely based around a long term strategy. It's used for getting 1.5x Special Defense for Rock types, Sand Rush/Sand Force users getting to setup and sweep, and wearing down your enemy's HP or negating their leftovers. With all weather falling to a maximum of 8 turns, Sand's gotten hit pretty hard.

That being said, Tyranitar just got immensely better. His Mega Evolution is incredibly powerful, and he now has a new toy in Assault Vest. If he runs an all attack set (which he frequently does), his Special Defense is increased on top of his Sand bonus. I can survive Focus Blasts from Alakazam with that & some defensive investment.

 

[X5Dragon]

A sand core of SpD tank TTar, Physical wall Hippo (both with rocks) and Excadrill will work nicely even with the nerf.

 

[mrglass]

Weather is still certainly viable. Except Hail of course.

The only difference is that people can't plan long-term strategies around weather, unless the strategy user is the summoner, in the case of T-Tar and Megazard Y. Or at the very least, a backup plan is necessary in case the weather dies out.

Venusaur slows down to a disappointingly speed after the sun ends, but it can run a Mega Stone, and MegaEvolve once it's sun runs out

Solar Power users are actually helped by the weather nerf, as they can't be stalled to death.

So I think we'll be seeing a lot fewer teams running things like Chlorophyll or Hydration. Other abilities might be fine.