Singles Isle of Armor Metagame Speculation Thread

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DragonWhale

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ISLE OF ARMOR METAGAME SPECULATION THREAD
List of known available Pokemon:
:golduck: :poliwrath: :slowbro: :exeggutor: :chansey: :kangaskhan: :starmie: :tauros: :azumarill: :politoed: :scizor: :skarmory: :kingdra: :blissey: :exploud: :luxray: :magnezone: :tangrowth: :krookodile: :zoroark: :emolga: :mienshao: :druddigon: :bouffalant: :volcarona: :talonflame: :dragalge: :dedenne: :lycanroc:

List of known new Gigantimax formes:
:venusaur: - all opposing non-Grass types take damage at the end of the turn
:blastoise: - all opposing non-Water types take damage at the end of the turn
:rillaboom: :cinderace: :inteleon: - Ignores foe's ability

New known moves:
Jungle Healing: likely banned in BSS (Zarude)
Wicked Blow: Dark type physical attack that always crits (Urshifu Single Strike)
Surging Strikes: Water type physical attack that always crits (Urshifu Rapid Strike)
Burning Jealousy: Fire type attack that hits all foes and burns Pokemon that boosted a stat that turn
Grassy Glide: Grass type attack where user moves first if Grassy Terrain is in effect
Shell Side Arm: Poison type attack that does Special or Physical damage depending on which does more. Can poison (Slowbro-Galar)

Known TR and TM moveset from HOME datamine:
Gen 1-2: https://pastebin.com/YttGzmje
Gen 3-4: https://pastebin.com/CZYW0jAX
Gen 5-6: https://pastebin.com/kjtgxzw5
 
Some other information that we know:

Urshifu has a GMAX form:
Dark-type attacks used by Single Strike Style Gigantamax Urshifu will change to G-Max One Blow. Water-type attacks used by Rapid Strike Style Gigantamax Urshifu will change to G-Max Rapid Flow. G-Max One Blow and G-Max Rapid Flow can deal damage even if a target defends itself by using moves like Max Guard or Protect.

a new ability Unseen Fist:
This Ability lets the Pokémon deal damage when it attacks with moves that make direct contact, even if the target defends itself by using moves like Protect.

Both the GMAX moves and the ability are insane. Not being able to stall out Dynamax turns against Urshifu removes one main ways to counter it. I wonder if the two forms will have distinguishable sprites. I think we are going to need as much help as we can get to stop this.

It was also revealed that Slowbro-G gets a new ability Quick Draw, but aside from a somewhat vague description, we do not have any information. The datamine of the new tutor moves suggests that there should a new move for each type and they should be pretty impactful based on the first two revealed.
 
I’m really hoping that Slowbro-G still gets Regenerator, as it’s Poison/Psychic typing I feel can be good defensively, and I assume it’s going to have similar stats to normal Slowbro. I could see Slowbro (possibly more Slowking here) becoming a decent check/counter to a lot of the Fairy Pokémon out there, because a lot of them don’t run Ghost/Dark/Ground coverage moves (besides Mimikyu of course).

Also, for you Talonflame apologists our there:

252 Atk Adamant Sharp Beak Talonflame Max Airstream (Brave Bird) vs 0 HP/0 Def Cinderace: 93.5 - 110.9% damage.

If Talonflame can’t reliably OHKO a Pokémon that has low defensive stats of base 80 HP and base 75 Defense, then I don’t think it’s going to have a massive impact on the meta game. There is the fact that Talonflame should be able to get off another Max Airstream after the initial use even without priority though, as Talonflame has a high base speed. It could also be an answer to the incoming Urshifu threat as well.

Also, I don’t see Skarmory usurping Corviknight completely. When both Pokémon are completely EV invested in HP and defense, Skarmory barely edges out Corviknight for physical walling capability.

Jolly 252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs...
...252 HP/252 Def Bold Skarmory: 63.9 - 76.7% damage
...252 HP/252 Def Impish Corviknight: 65.3 - 77% damage

Skarmory has some utility options that Corviknight lacks for sure, but Corviknight has better stats in every area besides Defense and Speed (barely). I could see Corviknight still seeing use because of its better mixed wall capabilities here.
 
Starmie will probably take away any usage Inteleon has right now, especially since Starmie has much better coverage. Tauros could be interesting with Sheer Force Body Slam so I'll probably try that too. Kingdra and Volcarona are going to be nasty.
 

DreamPrince

Formerly Leader Wallace
Chansey returning will be a god send for stall. Skarmory can definitely have a niche on stalls teams for being immune to OHKO moves, too bad Excadrill with Mold Breaker ignores Sturdy and can utilize Horn Drill against a stall team.

And let’s not forget Dynamax Calm Mind Blissey.
 
Starmie will probably take away any usage Inteleon has right now, especially since Starmie has much better coverage. Tauros could be interesting with Sheer Force Body Slam so I'll probably try that too. Kingdra and Volcarona are going to be nasty.
I wouldn’t say that just yet. Inteleon is still faster and stronger than Starmie and has U-Turn access which Starmie doesn’t possess. I also don’t think that Tauros is going to be available in this first expansion either lol.

“DreamPrince” said:
Chansey returning will be a god send for stall. Skarmory can definitely have a niche on stalls teams for being immune to OHKO moves, too bad Excadrill with Mold Breaker ignores Sturdy and can utilize Horn Drill against a stall team.

And let’s not forget Dynamax Calm Mind Blissey.
Chansey I’m sure will help out stall teams a lot. However, it may not have access to Toxic in BSS, which would hurt it quite a bit. Blissey may see more usage than Chansey (assuming Toxic isn’t an option) because of Blissey’s ability to Dynamax and actually have potential to deal some decent damage. Blissey has a base 75 special attack, whereas Chansey only has a lowly base 35 special attack.

That being said I’m hoping Chansey can legally use Toxic in some way (and maybe Wish too). Maybe it will get it via an egg move or something like that.
 

DreamPrince

Formerly Leader Wallace
I wouldn’t say that just yet. Inteleon is still faster and stronger than Starmie and has U-Turn access which Starmie doesn’t possess. I also don’t think that Tauros is going to be available in this first expansion either lol.



Chansey I’m sure will help out stall teams a lot. However, it may not have access to Toxic in BSS, which would hurt it quite a bit. Blissey may see more usage than Chansey (assuming Toxic isn’t an option) because of Blissey’s ability to Dynamax and actually have potential to deal some decent damage. Blissey has a base 75 special attack, whereas Chansey only has a lowly base 35 special attack.

That being said I’m hoping Chansey can legally use Toxic in some way (and maybe Wish too). Maybe it will get it via an egg move or something like that.
Chansey wasn’t obliged to run Toxic, you could get away with something like Thunder Wave. Loss of Toxic does hurt though. Chansey also has access to Eviolite, which makes it significantly bulkier than Blissey.
 
Starmie will probably take away any usage Inteleon has right now, especially since Starmie has much better coverage. Tauros could be interesting with Sheer Force Body Slam so I'll probably try that too. Kingdra and Volcarona are going to be nasty.
Inteleon's Special Attack and Speed stats are so crucial though 100 vs. 125 is a huge jump
 
Hey remember the last time I made a post on this site? Yeah, me neither. Let's break that streak with a certified Feesh Speculation Post™. Just gonna be a collection of some of my thoughts, really in no particular order.
New Gmaxes: While I don't expect much from the buffs to Venusaur, Blastoise, and Intelleon, Gmax Rillaboom and Cinderace I think have promise. Cinderace would miss out on being able to set sun with Max Flare, but these two are already showing to be big hitters with the releases of their hidden abilities and being able to hit through Disguise, Sturdy, Unaware, Shell Armor (looking at you, Lapras), and Thick Fat (in CInderace's case) among others looks pretty strong.
Urshifu: Yikes that's a strong-ass bear, for both forms. It's ability, signature moves, and Gmax moves are all really good and even in a meta where Mimikyu, Togekiss, and Primarina are top-tier Fairy-types and Max Airstream is all the rage, I think these guys are gonna be good. I'm personally more interested in Rapid Strike Style over Single Strike for that Water/Fighting-typing because hehe bear go splish splash.
Galarian Slowbro:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk how good it will be but Poison/Psychic-typing is pretty interesting and Shell Slide Arm letting it do a pretty nice Necrozma impression is cool, but imo a bit too early for me to give much more of an opinion on that.
New Moves: Already gave some thoughts on Shell Slide Arm + Urshifu's moves so I'll pass on those here. Burning Jealousy looks cool, though idk if the burn chance triggers before or after Weakness Policy. Will definitely be a good doubles move. Grassy Glide though, why? This move looks super good with Rillaboom and honestly spooks me, totally mishes on a good number of faster mons, looks promising.
Returning Mons: Ooh we got some spice here. Ones that I expect to have some nice impacts are as follows:
--Volcarona: Like if Charizard was good. Seriously though, this bug scares me, especially with no Heatran to solidly keep it in check. Quiver Dance is and will always be a dumb move and with stuff like Max Airstream Volc is gonna have a blast.
--Azumarill: An actually really solid answer to non-Gunk Shot Cinderace and has the merit of being Azumarill, I'm really glad to have this guy back. Bounce may actually give it a niche as a Dynamax sweeper and honestly I might fuck around with Sap Sipper to mish on Gyarados >:).
--Scizor: You have no idea how excited I am to get Scizor back. I really love this mon and will definitely mess with it some. Will be rough cause Dynamaxing makes its Bullet Punch do much less (like it OHKOes regular Togekiss but does half to Dmax Kiss) but it won't stop me from using it.
--Chansey/Blissey: Combining the two cause they're pretty much the same. They're both really solid mons, but I'm not too hopeful about them because of stall being a functionally dead playstyle atm as well as there being a lot of good physical threats atm. Could they do work? Absolutely, but for me I'll pass.
--Kingdra: Rain actually got one of its two sweepers back (RIP Mega Swampert). Cool mon, will see some usage for sure but I don't think it's enough to single-handedly make rain a thing again.
--Skarmory: Now we have two Steel birds to choose from. I'm uncertain how it affects the usage of Corviknight but Corv's higher speed and Mirror Armor definitely give it a niche over the OG flying tank. edit: it has come to my attention that Sturdy gives immunity to OHKO moves, which makes Skarm a better Excadrill check than Corv, but I still don't think it's strictly better.
--Magnezone: Loss of Hidden Power means that it can't deal with Steel-types as well anymore, but it's still a pretty strong Electric-type in a meta where we have Rotom as the only good special Electric-type and it being Steel-type is nice against Togekiss as well.
--Others: I either don't think they have a good enough niche to work in BSS or I just couldn't think of anything right now.

And... that's all I got. Might fuck around and make a follow-up post whenever more info comes out.
 
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A few thoughts before the ‘second phase of the game’ starts:

Assuming Grassy Glide is a physical move, I could see a Grassy Glide/Choice Band based Rillaboom set looking like this:

Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk, 212 HP, 44 Spe
Adamant nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer / Drum Beating / Superpower
- Knock Off / Superpower
- U-Turn / Superpower

Some things here: If Grassy Glide has decent power than Rillaboom likely doesn’t need another Grass typed move here. I feel that Knock Off and U-Turn are good options for their utility, but Superpower is also a good option because of the added coverage it provides.

Assuming that Galarian Slowbro and Galarian Slowking have similar stats to their normal forms, I could see Slowking-G becoming more common than Slowbro-G due to the fact that most Fairy Pokémon are specially based, and because most of those Fairy Pokémon aren’t likely to carry Ground, Ghost, or Dark-typed coverage. In fact, the two most common physical Fairies, Mimikyu and Grimmsnarl, both carry super-effective stab moves against Slowbro, which honestly kinda stinks lol. Combine that with the fact that Slowbro-G is weak to two of the most common Pokémon right now (Excadrill, Mimikyu) and I don’t see it getting top tier usage anytime soon.
 
Lemme get in on the discussion

Will probably rank among the top 30, even top 15, and it'll do what it did last gen but even better: Quiver Dance, STABS, and the choice of Max Airstream, Max Mindstorm, or Max Overgrowth. In my brief stint with USUM Battle Spot Singles, I remember a couple people experimenting with more defensive spreads - Mystical Fire will be an interesting move to toy about with regardless of what becomes popular. Another goodstuffs mon to add to add to the many, many threats that terrorise the metagame right now.
I don't think
-Galar will be very good. It depends on what Quick Draw does, and what way its stats are shuffled about, IF they're shuffled at all. It's going to have the tools to deal with most of the popular fat boys, but my honest expectation is that it's gonna be underwhelming and not worth using over regular Slowbro, whose better typing will facilitate some deviations on the standard cores.
will return true to its gen 7 form: disgustingly good at lategame cleanup, and not much else. Revenge killing with priority Max Airstream sounds scary enough, but it's not gonna be single-handedly (wingedly?) winning games left, right, and center. It's not gonna be breaking through walls, and skimming through the top 30 right now, it doesn't really have many favourable matchups imo.
Urshifu, if its movepool is generous and its speed above-average, will be very, very good. I've said this since the moment we found out what Unseen Fist does, which is allow contact moves to hit through protect. Both forms will be very good, but if it gets Knock Off and Sucker Punch, Single Strike style will be favoured over the other. Fairies will become even more popular, make liberal use of the Poison and Steel types that we have access to.
will still annoy Steels with or without Hidden Power, but it's not much to write home about. Body Press won't be that good. It shits on physically defensive Corviknight but that's about it, and I doubt many people will start to switch to SpDef Corv to have a chance at stalling it out. Just run Maranga Berry lmao
makes me glad that Cinderace suffers from 4MSS. He's the hero we need but don't deserve. Will struggle against Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Mow Gyarados, Seismitoad, Lapras, Pex and so on. Not having Z-Belly Drum hurts, and I'm not sure how much it'll try to compete with Primarina given that they perform similar roles.
Don't call it a comeback, because Rain will probably still not be that good. Kingdra will do what it's always done under rain, and Politoed isn't worth using over Pelipper. However, I do think Poliwrath is an interesting choice for a Swift Swim mon. Its CCs hit harder than Barraskewda's, it will have access to Darkest Lariat, it's got better special bulk than Drednaw, but it's not as fast as either of them.
-GMax makes Mimikyu a non-issue and that's all you need to know.


Moves

Burning Jealousy
obviously will punish physical setup mons, and, if it triggers the burn, Weakness Policy. We've seen Cinderace use it, but regardless of whether it's physical or special, it's probably not worth running it over Pyro Ball. Now, on something like Volcarona, which sets up itself, it will be very useful if it's a special move. It might be the case that a lot of mons who aren't Fire Type will learn it, we'll have to wait and see. This is all assuming that its BP will make it worth running over other coverage moves.
Grassy Glide, if physical, will be great on Rillaboom. Since it can reset the terrain on switch in, it will appreciate VoltTurn support to let it get in on Water and Ground types and force a switch. I can see Grassy Glide/U-turn becoming its bread and butter moves.
There's been a lot of speculation as to whether Flip Turn (French: Eau Revoir) will be a Water-type U-turn or not. If it is, I don't really care if it's physical or special, it's going to make the mons who learn it busted (and Water is already a very strong type). There's obviously the dilemma of using it over a valuable coverage move on something like, say, Gyarados - but it's the choice existing in the first place that matters. If it causes Water Absorb/Storm Drain mons to become more popular, then you know the move is doing its job.

That's my thoughts going in. I'm going to bunker down and build a screens team to take hits and get an idea for what's gonna be popular as the meta develops.
 
Revenge killing with priority Max Airstream sounds scary enough
Bearing in mind it can't use a Choice Band *or* a Life Orb for this, because of Dynamax and Gale Wings' full HP restriction respectively, is it actually that scary?

EDIT: I suppose the priority is pretty much irrelevant after the first speed boost anyway.
 
I think that Toxic on Chansey hurts its stalling capabilities because here is a moveset that I compile for it if Toxic was legal for Chansey.
chansey.gif

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled/Wish
- Toxic/Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave
- Protect/Seismic Toss/ Substitute

A great way to stall out opponents in BSS. But Calm Mind + Soft-Boiled Dynamax Blissey can overtake Chansey spot if usage is higher this generation.

If Toxic was a transfer move, then this set would be legal because Toxic was there for multiple generations as a TM, so I think it can be legal. So does Blissey in BSS. But it would have to sacrifice the calm mind set for this stall set. which is...
blissey.gif

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled/Wish
- Toxic/Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave
- Protect/Substitute/Seismic Toss

Going to be the same as with Chansey. This means it is likely going to be the same for some more time until UUBL for Blissey and OU for Chansey to be similar but different. However, these are still great choices for them so I think they will not be obligated to run Toxic if it was illegal. They would run Heal Bell/Aromatherapy Instead to become more supportive. Wish is another great move, I hope it is legal on them as well, but other than that, they will perform the same but with a limited number of Pokemon gone, meaning there would be fewer checks and counters for them.

I hope that I can use these sets effectively down the line in Gen 8 BSS and OU and UU.
 
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Theorymon

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Here's the base powers for the new moves, taken from the Smogon discord pins



Holy SHIT at Grassy Glide being a 70 BP physical move, that sounds fucking LIT on Rillaboom!

Also wow, Ground Scald, Flying type Dual Chop, Water U-turn, and many other crazy moves... we might be due for another huge ass shake up!

Note, the learnpools for these new moves aren't known yet.
 
New tutor move distributions

Also, there is a new NPC at the battle tower who can give clearance for your older-gen transfers to participate in ranked battles. This process involves deleting all of its moves (and relearn moves), replacing it with a default level-up movelist for its current species and level, to make sure it's on even footing with everything else and can't take advantage of old event/TM moves that are no longer accessible.

Notably, this mechanism gives Cobalion, Terrakion, Virizion, Raichu-A, Exeggutor-A, Marowak-A, and Weezing-K a way to participate in ranked Battle Stadium battles, something that was closed off to them before due to the Galar-origin restriction.
 
Looking at the new tutor moves and distributions; not much looks too relevant until we have Tapus and more Terrain setters; however.

Poltergeist looks potentially concerning, being a BP 110 Ghost move and Ghost being such a univerally great coverage type. Luckily it's a physical move and most physical ghosts have other problems; but I can see things like Golurk really tearing up lower tiers with this.

Meteor Beam is mostly for Power Herb gimmicks... but Starmie notably gets it. One thing Starmie has never really had access to is boosting. Being able to throw out a BP120 move and grab a +1 at the same time is pretty nice.

Flip Turn gives pokemon like Blastoise a U-Turn. Notably Kingdra; Sharpedo; Keldeo; Barraskewda and for lower tiers; Basculin get it.

Scorching Sands is a good move, it just dosen't have any good users. But hey; it means Claydol can actually do something other than sit there now.
 
new moves for new old mons from looking at the list posted above
may have missed some I'm sure

this does not cover tutor moves

most of these come from technical records
Poliwrath: Drain Punch, Close Combat, Earth Power, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower, Liquidation
Tauros: Throat Chop, High Horsepower
Chansey: Stored Power
Politoed: Earth Power
Dunsparce: Stored Power
Heracross: High Horsepower
Skarmory: Body Press
Kingdra: Hurricane
Miltank: Play Rough
Luxray: Play Rough, Psychic Fangs, Agility
Sharpedo: Close Combat
Lopunny: U-Turn, Play Rough
Lickilicky: Body Press
Lilligant: Pollen Puff
Krookodile: Close Combat, Darkest Lariat, High Horsepower
Emolga: Energy Ball
Amoongus: Pollen Puff
Mienshao: Close Combat, Blaze Kick
Bouffalant: Throat Chop, High Horsepower, Close Combat
Klefki: Stored Power
Lycanrock: Close Combat, Play Rough
Comfey: Stored Power, Pollen Puff
Magearna: Stored Power
 
Notably, this mechanism gives Cobalion, Terrakion, Virizion, Raichu-A, Exeggutor-A, Marowak-A, and Weezing-K a way to participate in ranked Battle Stadium battles, something that was closed off to them before due to the Galar-origin restriction.
Its worth noting that the Isle of Armor has several NPC's that straight up give you these pokes, which should also circumvent the prior issue of not having "Galar-local" pokemon by... well, actually giving you them as Galar locals.

Also, unless Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion got added to the new Armor Isle Pokedex, I believe they would still be disqualified. If I missed something though, feel free to direct me to any news on that front.
 
I finished training a Galar Born Scizor and Mienshao but Ranked won't accept them, will the new Pokemon be available for Rank matches?
 
Its worth noting that the Isle of Armor has several NPC's that straight up give you these pokes, which should also circumvent the prior issue of not having "Galar-local" pokemon by... well, actually giving you them as Galar locals.

Also, unless Cobalion, Terrakion and Virizion got added to the new Armor Isle Pokedex, I believe they would still be disqualified. If I missed something though, feel free to direct me to any news on that front.
Yes, because I believe legends are banned. and they are legendaries.
 
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