Has to be free battle... how else would you use things like the level 1 Aron, Smeargle, and FEAR strats?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Other Item Clause
- Thread starter amplafied
- Start date
- Status
Has to be free battle... how else would you use things like the level 1 Aron, Smeargle, and FEAR strats?
Actually, you can't do FEAR strats in Normal Rules (which I have been erroneously calling Free Battle) because it sets all of your Mons to level 50, even if they're lower. You can do FEAR in No Restrictions, though.
wifi does use all 6 pokemon
In Link Battles with Normal Rules or No Restrictions, yes, but in Free Battles, no.
Just saying, I won't be using a SDef Heatran without a non-offensive move. In fact, most SDef Heatran run only one attacking moves (or two) and use Protect to abuse Lefties + Statut damages.
I really don't see how we promote variety there. As some people said, I'd even be the contrary that happens. SunStall, for example, often ran bulky Ninetales + Cresselia. Both had Lefties, both used non-attacking moves. And now ? Bam, you can't use Cresselia, a niche Pokemon who appears only thanks to Lefties.
Blastoise in OU ? Not gonna happen, you'll have to use Tentacruel.
I really don't see the benefit of the Item Clause. The only item really nerfed is Leftovers, for bulky mons who frankly, weren't THAT fearsome last gen (I was more afraid of Keldeo Spec or Breloom than Jirachi SDef). Glass canons have ways to bypass the clause (Scarf + Expert Belt + Focus Sash + Band/Spec + Life Orb + A berry... Diversity !). But Leftovers is the only item matching a Choice Band or a Life Orb (and, arguably Eviolite, which basically forces you to use P2, Chansey or Doublade. Great) and it really helped to maintain some kind of balance during the last gen.
By limiting teams to one lefties, one choice scarf etc... we are limiting teambuilding and, by extension, the metagame. We only have some items to choose between, and we will have to use the best mons able to use it, and then have to resort to a Pokemon whose niche is "can use Black Sludge if you HAVE to use it". In other words, an inferior but imposed choice. While Blastoise niche was "a bulky rain Spinner with nice physical def and not weak to Ground", which can be superior to Tentacruel.
Frankly, I don't want to have to fit a Tentacruel / Weezing / Amoonguss / Whatever in every remotely defensive team I make.
I believe Smogon tries to make the metagame as enjoyable as possible. I don't see how it can be fun when you can't even use LO Latias + Sheer Force Conkeldurr, who aren't exactly top tiers (well, for Conkeldurr in all cases) just because. And if I already have a SDef Rotom-W, I'm now forced to find a Venusaur check who is either Poison or NFE (or don't use non-attacking moves, yeah).
But in random battle wifi it does
The reason i play here is because i hate nintendo's dumb and arbitrary restrictions. I want to have my freedom to pick my moves and pokemons. Restrictions should only be implemented for balancing purposes. Are multiple copies of the same item broken? No. Then why should we change anything? What is this trend now with people wanting to limit our competitive play with pointless and arbitrary rules? This is not what this place is about, the thing that separate us from the official meta is our freedom and different mindset for rules that priorizes balance. Thats why we exist, thats why even people that do have the original game, still play here.
Unless I'm doing something wrong, there's no way to Random Battle someone unless you do it through Battle Spot, and Battle Spot only supports 3v3 for Singles.
That Full Korbe mentions Weezing (an NU mon, and no more than decent in NU) as a potentially usable wall in OU, just because it can use Black Sludge, speaks volumes. It reminds me of the Ubers sleep clause test, where people were suggesting Vital Spirit Primeape and Hydration Accelgor as viable Darkrai checks, and people were saying "look these crapmons suddenly have a niche - the hallmark of a balanced metagame". Well, no. The fact that a rule change is suddenly forcing people to run crap just to work around the rule demonstrates how silly the rule is. It's the same thing here.
Last edited:
Well sure with clause you could still use leftovers on him, but then you think of what synergies work with that, does not stop him being viable because the other 5 cannot use the same item.
Well I normally run Cresselia dual screen with light clay, so that does not stop me there.... and for Sun teams I normally ran Ninetails with airballoon to switch in on locked ground type moves... so...... still nothing stopping me there.
Why not mega blastoise? can rapid spin, use pulse moves, has good def.
The rest of the post seems to complain I want leftovers or items similar, all of which you don't have to use recovery items like that, it just means you need to change the standard way people play.
This is starting to feel like when a new game comes out and they change weapon damage or class systems then everyone complains it ruined the game whilst others praise glory to the modification.
Item clause would definitely completely flip the meta-game, for better or worse.
I am not sure which side I am on, but both sides seem to be using a lazy argument, "adds diversity" vs "my team needs 6x of one item!" both are just as bad.
However as a lot of people say that stalls teams are not viable without leftovers on everyone single mon Ill make sure to use a guy with knockoff as a check for every single one then?
Last edited:
Ironically that is quite creative thinking, and it relied on a lack of item clause to work. So much for "item clause breeds creativity".
but by some peoples logic should that move not be banned? I mean it is BP 65, double if an item is held? and it removes the defensive item? that is far worse than item clause, I mean it destroys the whole stall meta-game!
Yes I am being sarcastic, but it is to point out that I think the without leftovers "x" pokemon is useless argument.
Also I am not too sure on knock off, it is 55 or 65? also somewhere someone said it does double damage if an item is held, this I am also unsure of.
Nintendo does have balance, just not for what the 6v6 metagame. Nintendo balances the game for the stuff that they actually care about, 3 v 3 singles and 4v4 doubles. I also laugh at anyone who says Rocks are balance in anyway. The Reason Smogon existed was to help create a metagame where there was none, now there is one that Nintendo cares about and balances for. Of which part of that is Item Clause which is enforced in every aspect of of the competitive play besides "no restrictions" The Clauses like Sleep Clause might not be enforced by the game itself, but no decent player will be that much of a jerkwad to actually go against it, Same with Double Team Clause.
Whait, are you basicly saying: there are enouth good new items that we will have more variety so whe shoulde put a rule that makes us have variety? I don't get this. I think all item clause does is remove game variety. Stall teams, to say one, could benefit from having more leftovers. If we want variety, why limit things when they are not broken?
It's funny how the OP claims that an item clause will promote diversity when it's just one more rule that limits people's choices. I am wondering how this thread hasn't yet been locked as it's already been 6 pages of posts and yet not one good reason for this to happen has been presented. Stop trying to make the Smogon metagames the same with VGC ffs.
This thread can be summed up in a couple of sentences.
For Item Clause: It promotes diversity!
Against Item Clause: It limits diversity!
Then both sides just kinda slap each other while shouting these phrases ad nauseum. Seriously, all this thread has become is a pile of arguments, hate, and flame.
For Item Clause: It promotes diversity!
Against Item Clause: It limits diversity!
Then both sides just kinda slap each other while shouting these phrases ad nauseum. Seriously, all this thread has become is a pile of arguments, hate, and flame.
Technically, the choices will be diverse from the current meta...
yyyyes it can? this isn't a new thing, artists have done this since the beginning of time
the arguments in this thread have gotten really weird and I'm starting to think maybe everyone on smogon lives in a strange dream world where you can force objective concepts into subjective things and nobody will mind
Being forced to run subpar crap to fill the void created by this rule is not ''diversity''. This is limiting player choices, imposing arbitrary restrictions. If you think a mon or item is good enough to be used in high tiers, feel free to use it and try to come up with a viable set. This is the beauty of smogon. We only enforce rules that go against a competitive metagame (sleep clause, moody clause and friends), otherwise youre free to make your choices and come up with creative and viable teams. Stop trying to limit the way we play, we want to have freedom, we want balance and we want to enjoy this game.
You completely missed the meaning of my post. Well done.
I like the idea of this :) While I understand that it might not be essential to run in the standard OU metagame, I think having another ladder with a singles Item Clause would be nice. It does force you to rethink lots of Pokemon choices and it's an interesting way to play :3
- Status