Im just wondering why everyone that has guts use toxic of flame orb? wouldn't it be more powerful if before the battle you got poisoned the slap a CB ? Example heracross + burned in battle be flame orb = 1.5 boost but heracross + burned before the battle then CB = 2.0 boost just curious
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
just curious
- Thread starter Yuuki-kun
- Start date
When you battle someone your Pokemon are set to full health and free of status. I thought everyone knew that.
No...
This would be much better suited to the simple questions area. At any rate, the reason they use the orbs instead of a choice band or anything like that is simple. What if your oponent doesn't pack WoW or Toxic spikes/toxic? Do you wanna see if heracross can live through a flamethrower, hope it gets burned, then go from there? This way guts is definately activated as opposed to chancing it.
The reason it is preferred to just a choice band is because you get a boost and retain the ability to select different moves.
Is that a satisfactory answer? I tried to be clear :naughty:
Not many people use Hera with Toxic Orb, since he lacks Protect and doesn't have bulky enough stats or resistances to switch in. Many people try and take advantage of his Guts if there are Toxic Spikes/ and obvious WoW.
Swellow is a better example. It has a very average movepool and lacks attack power. Toxic orb is used due to the fact it cant switch in on Toxic Spikes, and it can take advantage of it's EQ switch-ins/Protect.
Point being, toxic orb is for assurance without choice, while Choice Band is for power with a chance of a poison switch-in.
Swellow is a better example. It has a very average movepool and lacks attack power. Toxic orb is used due to the fact it cant switch in on Toxic Spikes, and it can take advantage of it's EQ switch-ins/Protect.
Point being, toxic orb is for assurance without choice, while Choice Band is for power with a chance of a poison switch-in.
Well, nobody out there is crazy enough to go give a Pokemon with "Guts" a status problem. Therefore, you must do it for yourself. I've never used a Guts Pokemon before, though.
They don't say "Look a Heracross, better Burn it". You have to switch it into Weezing Will-o-Wisp, or Blissey Thunder Wave, or Milotic Hypnosis (Sleep Talk), or Toxic Spikes.
Thats what I was trying to say. But the best and safest way to get yourself a status problem is via Flame Orb (or whatever Orb).
But then Hera gets a lot of residual damage. If you give it a Flame Orb, assuming he switches into all Spikes, this is what he loses:
25% (Spikes) + 12% (Stealth Rock) + 6% (first turn sandstorm) + 12% (first turn Burn) + 6%(second turn sandstorm) + 12% (second turn Burn) + 6% (third turn sandstorm) = -100%. In three turns he is dead in the worst possible situation. Choice Band has the same boost, and if you get Burned the residual damage is made up for by 2.25 boost in attack.
The main reason is if you're relying on Guts you can't always get yourself poisoned or burned or whatever. By using an Orb you know 100% of the time you can activate Guts and get the attack boost. On pokemon like Heracross which are a bit frail people will tend to go with a Choice Band to save some HP and dish out a lot of damage immediately. You can't just poison or burn a pokemon before a battle, the game automatically heals you in link battles. If you're talking about like in the game against say the Elite Four then yeah go ahead get poisoned and then battle the AI trainers.
12+12.5+6.25+12.5+6.25+12.5+6.25 + 12.5 + 6.25 still makes 87% for me. And if having a higher boost in attack makes up for having the same amount of residual damage as the item you're knocking, then how about factoring in the fact that Heracross, Ursaring or whatever will only be able to use one move until he switches out and takes more Stealth Rock and everything.
Because with that one attack he has to use before switching, his attack is so fucking high that he basically 2HKOs everything without 4x resist/immunity.
383 * 1.5 * 1.5 = 861 (rounded down)
That's a lotta power, even if you lose freedom to switch attacks. That's nearly as powerful as Rayquaza with 2 DDs. Even with resistances, 252/252 Impish Dusknoir takes 47.28% - 55.44% from Megahorn. Even if you mispredict a little, the incomer will still usually be taking quite a bit, lessening the need to switch often.