Kabutops (QC 3/4)

Overview
########

- Is an excellent sweeper on Rain hyper offense
- Can 2HKO some of the best physical walls in OU after a Swords Dance boost
- Has a good STAB combination between Water and Rock
- Ferrothorn, the most relevant defensive Pokemon to resist both STABs, loses to Low Kick
- Destroys defensive teams with Swords Dance
- Poor SpDef
- Weak to common Fighting-type attacks

Physical Attacker
########
name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Swords Dance / Rapid Spin
move 4: Low Kick / Aqua Jet
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd

Moves
========

- Swords Dance is the best reason to use Kabutops, as it can boost and
- Waterfall is the strongest STAB under rain, capable of OHKOing Pokemon like Landorus-T after a boost, factoring Intimidate
- Stone Edge is your secondary STAB with good coverage, Hitting most Water resists
- Low Kick is good for Pokemon that resist his dual STAB like Ferrothorn
- Aqua Jet is a strong priority move that beats frailer revenge killers like Talonflame (as if anyone would leave this in)
- Rapid Spin provides utility at the cost of coverage, removing hazards from your side of field

Set Details
=======

- Swift Swim doubles his speed under rain, beating slower Choice Scarfers and faster opposing Pokemon while powering up Waterfall
- Life Orb provides a significant power boost while allowing it to switch moves
- Adamant nature provides power, and you still outspeed everything important in rain, bar extremely fast Scarfers, which can take an Aqua Jet

Usage Tips
========

- Kabutops is free to sweep whenever its checks are weakened or removed, or even earlier to break down walls for Kingdra/Ludicolo/whatever
- Keep your Politoed alive at all costs. If you need to sacrifice it, make sure you can send Kabutops in right after
- Rain lasts just long enough for Kabutops to sweep, but only if brought in right away, which requires Kabutops to be played carefully, as the risk of the opponent double switching exists
- Keep Kabutops alive even if it means losing the last few turns of Rain. If a Breloom comes in and you suspect it can live a Waterfall, switch out because you can easily die to it

Team Options
========

- POLITOED
- Ways to beat bulky grass types like Gourgeist or Ferrothorn (if not using Low Kick)
- Fire types beat most of his checks, but are weakened by rain, so more unconventional methods may work
- SR setters are appreciated.
- Mega Scizor appreciates Fire attacks being weakened
- Kingdra breaks many walls Kabutops has trouble with, forming an excellent rain offense core, Low Kick allows Kabutops to weaken Ferrothorn for Kingdra
- Landorus-T provides Intimidate, Stealth Rock, and U-turn, allowing Kabutops to come in much easier, and Stealth Rock allows it to break through certain defensive Pokemon like Kabutops
- Rotom-W is immune to Earthquake and provides a slower Volt Switch
- Latios beats many Pokemon that give rain offense trouble

Other Options
########

- note: add arikados set
- SR
- Hone Claws
- Knock Off
- Lum Berry

Checks & Counters
########

- Weather being changed
- Mega Venusaur
- Keldeo
- Chesnaught
- Gourgeist
- Thundurus
- Rotom-W
- Sableye
- Gastrodon
- Breloom
- Scarf Terrakion (no Aqua Jet)
 
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I don't see Choice locked rapid spin being useful at all. With the excess of Defog users, you're better off using something else to clear hazards away. The last thing you want is the be choice locked into that. Perhaps if a Rain Utility set was made or maybe an All Out Attacker set, it might be worth using more.
 
I don't see Choice locked rapid spin being useful at all. With the excess of Defog users, you're better off using something else to clear hazards away. The last thing you want is the be choice locked into that. Perhaps if a Rain Utility set was made or maybe an All Out Attacker set, it might be worth using more.
I made sure to say the utility doesn't outweigh being locked into it. As for those sets, probably not going to happen (Utility) and possible (AOA)
 
All right, so the new strategy dex is going up very soon and there are several Pokemon, including this one, that do not currently have completed analyses. dbzmariogeno, if you could please try to make this look presentable within the next day, that would be helpful. Please contact user darkie once you've made it look presentable (by that I mean "acceptable to be on-site") and refer to and update this pirate pad: https://www.piratepad.ca/p/dex_skeletons

This needs to be done by tomorrow afternoon (GMT -6), so make sure you get it done! If you can't make it look presentable in the next day, please say so in the pirate pad so someone else can make a quick skeleton of it. Thanks!
 
Okay. Just make sure to have it done within the next 20 hours and make sure everything is in complete sentences.
 

trc

mellow
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Ok, I would like it if you made the overview more informative as opposed to just saying that it can do <this> but it struggles because of <this>. I wouldn't even refer to DrizzleSwim being unbanned, just get straight to the point by saying that it is an excellent sweeper on rain teams, specifically rain Hyper Offensive teams, because it is quite powerful and it can set up with Swords Dance against more defensively-oriented teams. Also, don't mention anything about "weak and redundant" coverage moves, just talk about Low Kick and say that it patches up issues against Ferrothorn. It isn't like Kabutops needs coverage to get through the majority of Pokemon anyway, because it is doing a hefty chunk to a lot of things in rain with Waterfall, and the defensive Pokemon that take little from Kabutops are worn through easily after Swords Dance. Don't mention Rapid Spin in the overview, the only use it has is because it is hard to fit good Defog users on rain teams, and Kabutops should only ever run Rapid Spin if the team has no other ways of dealing with hazards. It's quite frail and doesn't enjoy switching in, and the fact that it beats Rapid Spinners with Knock Off is barely relevant as Kabutops can't fit both on one set, and spinblockers are mostly irrelevant in this metagame aside from Aegislash which can beat you if it predicts right with King's Shield. Instead, mention cons such as its special frailty, its mediocre Speed outside of rain, and its vulnerability to common Fighting-type priority.

Swords Dance
########
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Low Kick / Aqua Jet / Knock Off
ability: Swift Swim
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

The set should be like this. Low Kick is essential coverage for Ferrothorn, Aqua Jet is helpful for when Kabutops is outside of rain, as well as to beat Talonflame if you are at low enough health for it to KO you with Brave Bird. Knock Off is barely essential but it sort of helps with Aegislash if you Swords Dance on the King's Shield. Rapid Spin should only get a mention in "Moves", because Defog users are often hard to place on rain teams.

The points in the "Moves" section need elaboration. Swords Dance is Kabutops's way of dealing with defensive teams, and it is also helpful versus offensive teams when you have the opportunity by means of forcing a switch or the like. Don't mention Lando-T as an example for Waterfall, just say it hits hard and is essentially the most "spammable" move. If you say Stone Edge hits Water resists, say which ones in particular, an example would be regular Gyarados. Then obviously reorder the section according to the new move order. Talk about how Aqua Jet is helpful for when rain isn't up, and that Knock Off can be used in the Aegislash example mentioned above. Then mention Rapid Spin.

Don't mention Swift Swim in set details, you wouldn't choose another ability anyway and the functions of SS are mentioned throughout the whole analysis. Mention the EVs (if only to say that they're standard) and then state the benchmarks that you outspeed under Swift Swim, and specify that it isn't worth using Jolly for whatever is above that benchmark (unless of course it is, in which case tag me and I'll debate the merits of Jolly on IRC).

Usage Tips needs a lot more content, and there is plenty that could be included. Remove that it needs to be played as a late-game sweeper, it can sweep whenever its checks are removed so there is no point encouraging a reader to think that they have to limit when Kabutops can be played. Mention that the amount of turns of rain is sufficient enough for a sweep, but the Kabutops user has to play carefully and not safely, as the opponent can simply avoid your onslaught with the usage of clever switching. Say when to use Swords Dance, say to use Waterfall in the case of a Pokemon which would be KOd by eother of its STABs (such as against a weakened Togekiss) as Stone Edge can miss and it can para you or something, say when to bring Kabutops in (not just when rain is up), say to withdraw it even if it means you don't get to use the rest of the rain if like a Conkeldurr comes in. There's plenty to think of.

Mention Deoxys-S as a teammate as it works fantastically on the sort of Hyper Offensive teams that Kabutops fits on. Obviously, the Rain Dance and Damp Rock set. Don't mention Gourgiest, just mention ways of getting past Ferrothorn in rain. Mention other rain sweepers such as Kingdra, Tornadus-T, and Keldeo. Remove the Fire-type mention unless you can state specifics. You can mention things such as Mega Scizor, which benefits from the rain reducing its weakness to Fire. Don't mention hazard support unless mentioning specific situations in which this is helpful. Don't mention Forretress especially as it is incredibly bad in this meta. Talonflame is good, but it doesn't like its Fire-type STAB being weakened. Mega Pinsir can gain a mention as well here. It is good that you've elaborated on Conkeldurr, but don't mention any other Pokemon (aside from Politoed) without saying why you should use it as a teammate, and not just because of type synergy. Think of what it offers Kabutops and what Kabutops offers it. Finally, mention partners that can deal with checks to rain teams as a whole. They are most commonly threatened by Mega Venusaur, Thundurus, Ferrothorn, Mega Charizard Y, and Tyranitar, so mention some good checks to these Pokemon. Latios deals with Mega Venusaur and Mega Charizard Y, but it gets wrecked by Tyranitar and physical Thundurus, so think of some good teammates that can deal with these Pokemon quite comfortably.

I've discussed with others about the Choice Band set on IRC, and we've come to a conclusion to remove it based on the reasoning that it is no better than the Life Orb Kabutops set. Here is the reasoning:
  • Loses the immense sweeping utility that the first set provides
  • Minor power increase in exchange for being much easier to play around
  • Kabutops can't really pivot that well so it isn't a great choice for a Choice Band user
  • Switching out to change moves limits rain time
  • No real reason to use it over the Life Orb set.
Therefore, the only set should be the Life Orb set.

Take Night Slash, X-Scissor, and Weak Armor out of OO. Night Slash is utterly outclassed by Knock Off, which even then isn't essential. X-Scissor offers little outside from hitting Latias harder than Stone Edge, and even then, Knock Off is better. Weak Armor is basically throwing away the only reason to use Kabutops, don't do that. You can mention Hone Claws to improve Stone Edge's accuracy though.

In checks and counters, mention Mega Venusaur, Chesnaught, and Keldeo at the top, mention that Thundurus can paralyze it, add Ferrothorn for sets without Low Kick, and remove Virizion, the second mention of Sableye, and Water Absorb Quagsire.

This may seem like a lot, but tag me when you are done and I'll see if it's all sorted.

QC APPROVED 1/3
 
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Would an Endure + Weakness Policy set be any good? With lots of weaknesses including common priority, it's rather easy activating WP. Weak Armor also guarantees a +1 in Speed. Waterfall and Stone Edge hit stuff hard while Aqua Jet is used to pick off weakened threats. Maybe in the OO?
 

Jukain

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Talked w/ cbb...don't slash Knock Off. +2 Waterfall already KOes Aegislash, and it's a dicey matchup because it's a KS and SD or no KS and attacking 50/50. Make this the set:

move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Swords Dance / Rapid Spin
move 4: Low Kick / Aqua Jet

Spin is just slashed because it's such a damn good move, and SD is far from required.
 
Some thoughts...
- Weather being changed
- Gourgeist
- Skarmory
- Rotom-W
- Water Absorb Quagsire
No one ever uses water absorb Quagsire; Unaware is 500% better. However:
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (I forgot rain...)
You could mention it, with it's correct ability, because:
4 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 182-216 (69.4 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

- Empoleon
- Sableye
- Jellicent
- Gastrodon
- Breloom
- Scarf Terrakion (no Aqua Jet)/Latios
- Sableye
- Virizion
- Mega Venusaur
All were rejected, and shouldn't be mentioned
 
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Some thoughts...

No one ever uses water absorb Quagsire; Unaware is 500% better. However:
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- 74.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
You could mention it, with it's correct ability, because:
4 Atk Quagsire Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kabutops: 182-216 (69.4 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


All were rejected, and shouldn't be mentioned
You forgot Rain.

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire in Rain: 208-246 (52.7 - 62.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

Colonel M

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Aerial Ace in OO maybe?

+2 OHKOes Keldeo. Not bad I guess.

EDIT: Nvm +2 Waterfall OHKOes.
 
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TRC.

I understand there are a lot of changes to make, as this was originally made over 4 months ago and then quickly fixed up before the initial dex rush. Also I added Water Absorb Quagsire because, at the time, it was used, regardless of how effective it was.

All the changes have been made. (also I just got the notice that someone posted in this thread, so there's that)

As for the Jolly thing, it beats Scarf Terrakion, not worth the power loss though imo.

I apologize for the delay and old unprofessional version of the analysis.
 
Spirit I know how rain works. It's just that this analysis hasn't had any changes in months, so there was a chance I would miss something, same thing with the random Sylveon mention.

As for Conkeldurr, Mega Pinsir, and Talonflame:

Talonflame was added to remove many Fighting/Grass types that resist Waterfall/Stone Edge. (also, TRC was the one who supported Mega Pinsir)

Conkeldurr beats Ferrothorn if you do not run Low Kick and beats Rotom-W while absorbing a burn. It works well with Kabutops, even if not rain in general.
 

aVocado

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I remember using a set very early in Pokebank OU when everyone was trying new toys and such, and it was:


move 1: Endure
move 2: Aqua Jet / Swords Dance
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Weak Armor
item: Weakness Policy
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd

I remember it doing not so bad, and it can be a surprise vs. offensive teams. I know priority is common, and that's why Aqua Jet is slashed first. At +1 Speed Kabutops outspeeds Talonflame (and can take a CB Brave Bird, at -1), which is pretty decent. It can work as a late-game cleaner.

Is it good enough for OO?
 
Spirit I know how rain works. It's just that this analysis hasn't had any changes in months, so there was a chance I would miss something, same thing with the random Sylveon mention.

As for Conkeldurr, Mega Pinsir, and Talonflame:

Talonflame was added to remove many Fighting/Grass types that resist Waterfall/Stone Edge. (also, TRC was the one who supported Mega Pinsir)

Conkeldurr beats Ferrothorn if you do not run Low Kick and beats Rotom-W while absorbing a burn. It works well with Kabutops, even if not rain in general.
For flying STAB I'd personally prefer Tornadus, either normal form for Prankster Rain Dance or Therian form for Regenerator which makes it harder to wear down. Both have very powerful STAB Hurricane, and on a Rain team they're frankly a lot better than Talonflame when it comes to team synergy, especially since both are capable of OHKOing Tyranitar with Super Power/Focus Blast, and they don't take as much damage from Stealth Rock (and Therian taking essentially none.) Both can also do a hefty amount to Ferrothorn without taking barbs+recoil+possible Rocky Helm Recoil, to the point where it can no longer cock block swift swimmers. Talonflame Flare Blitz also gets powered down in rain.

Coneldurr is not needed to take on Ferrothorn, and there are better options if a powerful fighting move is needed. Mostly I dislike its utter inability to get past Mega Venusaur. The only fighting types I'd consider on a rain team are Keldeo (w/ HP Flying) and Toxicroak (EDIT: how'd I forget about Chesnaught,) but that's just sort of me preferring everything on a rain team to benefit from rain in some way.

And while Conkeldurr can counter Rotom-W completely, I've never found Rotom-W to be more than a slight annoyance to rain sweepers. Kabutops KO's 252/252+ ones with +2 Stone Edge, which is the most relevant fact to this analysis. Conkeldurr also doesn't help Kingdra, who either blows Rotom-W up with Specs Draco Meteor, can 2HKO physically defense spreads (the best spread) with Specs Dragon Pulse or even Hydro Pump, and even if it's a specially defensive spread or Kingdra is using LO or whatever, and gets a chance to attack Kingdra, none of its attacks actually do anything to Kingdra. Ludicolo beats it too, obviously.

No opinion on Mega Pinsir.
 
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trc

mellow
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No it shouldn't, I have no idea why I said it should. I can't even remember at all? Remove it please.
 
(I am not qc so take this with a grain of salt.)

I have been using rain extensively for quite some time, i think that lum berry deserves a mention if you are not using aqua jet because it lets you bypass thundurus' thunder wave. Not that, kabutops can't switch out but, wasting precious rain turns is not a good idea imo.
Also, knock off is still mentioned in the moves section.
In C&C, mention ferrothorn, if not running low kick. Also, in team options, rain dance deoxys-s deserves a mention as on a rain team it removes a lot of pressure from Politoed.
 
I just forgot to remove the Knock Off part, sorry about that. Otherwise done

Also I know Jolly is stupid, but does it deserve at the very least an OO mention when not running Aqua Jet to outspeed Scarf Terrakion?
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Usage Tips
========

- Kabutops is free to sweep whenever its checks are weakened or removed
- Keep your Politoed alive at all costs. If you need to sacrifice it, make sure you can send Kabutops in right after
- Rain lasts just long enough for Kabutops to sweep, but only if brought in right away, which requires Kabutops to be played carefully, as the risk of the opponent double switching exists
- If either STAB move can KO a target, use Waterfall because Stone Edge can miss and cost you your Kabutops
- Keep Kabutops alive even if it means losing the last few turns of Rain. If a Breloom comes in and you suspect it can live a Waterfall, switch out because you can easily die to it
- Kabutops can 2HKO Hippowdon and OHKO Tyranitar if it has Low Kick, allowing it to win weather wars on its own
- Seeing a Charizard in team preview is always a risk. Scout the opposing team before the battle starts to see if it is most likely X or Y. Even if it looks like it is a Charizard X, keep the possibility of Charizard Y in mind as Kabutops can not beat it 1



Team Options
========

- POLITOED
- Ways to beat bulky grass types like Gourgeist or Ferrothorn (if not using Low Kick)
- Fire types beat most of his checks, but are weakened by rain, so more unconventional methods may work
- SR setters are appreciated.
- Mega Scizor appreciates Fire attacks being weakened
- Kingdra breaks many walls Kabutops has trouble with, forming an excellent rain offense core
- Landorus-T provides Intimidate, Stealth Rock, and U-turn, allowing Kabutops to come in much easier, and Stealth Rock allows it to break through certain defensive Pokemon like Kabutops
- Rotom-W is immune to Earthquake and provides a slower Volt Switch
I think this bit about using waterfall > Stone Edge goes without saying. Kabutops can beat hippo and t-tar one one one, yes, but you cant switch KAbutops into them and nor will they come into KAbutops so this point is kinda moot, I mean any rain sweeper can easily check hippo and ttar too, in fact politoed itself can. ALso I'm not sure what you mean about this charizard bit. IF a Charizard Y checks you, and it evolves that turn, you still outspeed it if rain was up, and Stone Edge Ohkos either forme. IF you need some tips to add, talk about when in the match Kabutops performs best, and also detail the fact that it can act as either sweeper or wallbreaker.

WAys to beat bulky grass types: What ways? List some good pokes that do this. As for Kingdra, Ferrothorn is good against both, I would mention. that if you run Low Kick on Tops you can soften up Ferro for Kingdra and then use that to sweep. Add a couple more rain oriented pokes here for me. Firstly, TOrnadus formes are pretty good at dealing with grass types that are a hassle. Latios easily beats Breloom, Keldeo, Venusaur, and Rotom-W, and can check electric types, as well it benefits from rain with boosted Surfs and Thunder. Other Swift Swimmers, namely Seismitoad and Ludicolo can deserve mentions.

Other than that I'd like to see this analysis progress.

QC 3/4
 

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