Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[AOPSUser]

I personally believe that Mega Kangaskhan is extremely broken, and every team needs to run a counter just for this. As a result, it is my belief that...

IT SHOULD STAY IN OU.

Yes, really. Let me explain.

The reason being that it uses up your Mega Evolution slot, and by banning it, you overcentralize the metagame again. Think about it. Before Gengarite was banned, everyone used their Mega Evolution slot on Gengar, with a few using it on other pokes. Gengar was the best Mega (besides Mewtwo/Blaziken, which are ban-worthy even without Mega Evolution).

Then Gengarite was banned, so everyone who did have Mega Gengar on their team switched to using other Megas, most notably Mega Kangaskhan. The gameplay of the tier has shifted. Rather than trying to counter Mega Gengar, everyone just shifted to countering Mega Kangaskhan instead. Because that is what became necessary.

If Kangaskhanite is banned, then who's to say that these same people won't switch over to Mega Lucario (great attacking stats and Adaptability) or Mega Mawile (105 Huge Power!) or Mega Medicham (a better movepool and is faster than Mega Mawile, albeit less bulky)? Heck, even Mega Heracross probably gets enough use to the point that it's (probably) not going to be in UU. And we just ban Mega Stone after Mega Stone until there's nothing left. Mega Evolution, which is supposed to be the gimmick that separates Gen VI from Gen V, will be regulated to Ubers-only play before too long.

I worry that if we go ban happy on Mega Stones, we open up this very real possibility. And thus, this new gameplay mechanic will go largely unexplored (as a majority of users prefer to play OU over Ubers). And since this is something that Smogon has no history of dealing with, I feel that we should think about this before jumping to any conclusions.

Is Mega Kangaskhan broken, even for a Mega? Maybe. But until we do more extensive testing on Mega Evolutions, I don't think that we can say that for sure, so I don't think that the Kangaskhanite should be banned right now. Maybe after a suspect test, I will be proven wrong. At that point, I will no longer object to the ban.

Centralization is a really shitty argument for anything. We don't care if banning Kangaskhanite will make the other Megas OP, because if Kangaskhanite is banned and that happens, we ban those other Megas too. No one really cares about how many bans we have to make.

The fact that people are using niche choices like Cofagrigus, Dusclops (I still don't know how this thing was UU last gen), and slapping Rocky Helmet on everything, simply to CHECK Mega Kangaskhan, is ridiculous. There are no counters and very few checks in OU (and a lot of those checks aren't even OU viable outside of Kangaskhan), and even they are not close guaranteed to win, as Parental Bond lets each hit crit, and Cofagrigus and Sableye can barely take a Crunch as it is. (also WoW's accuracy is only reliable if your name is reyscarface)

The best way to beat Mega Kangaskhan is to play around it, but that just doesn't work a lot of the time. The fact is, unless you have a Sableye or Rocky Helmet Garchomp, you ARE going to lose to Mega Kangaskhan. There is no way around it, and even if you get lucky once or twice, they will beat you.

Also post-Pokebank it gets Fire Punch and becomes even more of a monster (in the literal and figurative sense).

Is it too good for OU? Probably. Currently, it looks like it really does deserve a quickban.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Mega Kangaskhan is without a doubt the most "broken" Pokemon that Gen VI gave us. I would go as far as to say it is even more "broken," in the conventional sense, than Mega Gengar. When I think about why Mega Gengar was broken, it falls under more of an "uncompetitive" section. It was broken because it made things easier for another Pokemon. It was able to trap any given wall, eliminate it, and then something like Garchomp could sweep the opponent's team without any issue.

But Mega Kangaskhan doesn't need a trapper. It barely needs any support at all. It plows through teams like it's nothing, and the only teams it doesn't breeze through, only withstand it because they have 2-3 Pokemon dedicated to beating it. And I don't mean something like running Rotom-W + Latias in Gen V to beat Keldeo, either. No, these Pokemon are specifically used because they are somewhat able to check Mega Kangaskhan. Teams will often run Sableye + Rocky Helmet Skarmory in order to survive this thing. I mean, the mere fact that Sableye is even being considered should show how much of an unhealthy influence this thing has on the meta. The fact that Pokemon like Garchomp and Ferrothorn are running Rocky Helmet more often than not is sickening. There are much MUCH better items for these Pokemon to run, but they are basically forced to run a substandard item (not necessarily bad, just non-optimal) because it gives you a slim chance to weakening Mega Kangaskhan.

To sum it up: Mega Kangaskhan is broken because of a few reasons:

1) Mega Kangaskhan puts a heavy strain on team building (it chooses its counters).
As I mentioned above, many teams are forced to run 2-3 specific counters to Mega Kangaskhan in order to beat it. The reason people are forced to run Sableye + Skarmory on a team in order to beat it is that Mega Kangaskhan has three slots that are a given (Return, PuP, and Sucker Punch). The Final slot is yours to choose, and each move will change what can counter it. Chose Earthquake to hit Aegislash, Heatran, etc., but this leaves it vulnerable to Pokemon like Gourgeist, Sub Disable Gengar, and Skarmory. But if you choose Crunch, you can hit all of the latter Pokemon for 2HKOs (yes even Skarmory can be 2HKOed by +2 Crunch, which forces it to Roost after it attempts to phaze you out). Heaven forbid you run into a Kangaskhan using Fire Punch, which cleanly 2HKOs Skarmory regardless, as well as hitting Gourgeist, Ferrothorn, and Trevenant as well. People often name Sableye as the be all and end all of Mega Kangaskhan counters, but I have a few issues with that. First of all, Sableye blows. Second, it's 2HKOed by Earthquake. This also forces it to Recover or risk losing to Mega Kangaskan at a later time (it can WoW, but if Mega Kangaskhan switches out on the WoW to something that forces out Sableye ala Heatran, then it is no longer a counter). In short, there is NOTHING that can counter Mega Kangaskhan. Nothing can switch into any of its sets with impunity and continually force it out. "Continually" is the key word there. Like Tornadus-T from last gen, Mega Kangaskhan has little issue wearing down its counters over the course of a battle. This obviously puts a huge amount of strain on team building, as it forces you to run multiple specific checks just to hope to beat it.

2) Mega Kangaskhan has the bulk, pre-evo ability, and speed to easily find setup opportunities
It's no secret that Parental Bond is what makes Mega Kangaskhan the terror that it is. But that's not to discount how important its other characteristics are. The bulk is huge, in my opinion. It's increase to 105/100/100 defenses (making it bulkier than Jirachi and Celebi .-.) allows Mega Kangaskhan ample time to set up. It can even survive Technician Breloom's Mach Punch if it has to (though PuP on the switch + Sucker Punch would also KO it, although this isn't likely as Breloom won't really switch in). It even has a chance to survive SPECS Draco Meteor from Latios with zero investment (not really relevant, just a surprising calc). This is a Pokemon who only has one immunity and no resistances, and yet it's still able to tank hits like those and KO back if it has to with absolutely no investment. Another great aspect of Mega Kangaskhan is it's ability before it evolves: Scrappy. Hitting Sableye for 50% with Return as it switches into you is hilarious. Hitting Aegislash with PuP and then Crunch for the OHKO is also hilarious. There is literally nothing that stops it from boosting. There are things which have a chance to deal with it after it boosts, but nothing can stop it from actually happening. It's Speed, while not perfect, still puts it at a great tier especially considering it's access to Sucker Punch, meaning Latios, Starmie, Alakazam, Gengar, and other faster threats still have to watch out for it. This makes it incredibly easy for Mega Kangaskhan to sweep teams, since it has no difficulty getting to +2. I mean, this is a Pokemon that can OHKO Hippowdon at +2. Insane.

3) Mega Kangaskhan requires little-to-no support
Often times people will be so afraid of Mega Kangaskhan when seeing it in Team Preview that they fail to concern themselves with the five other Pokemon Kangaskhan brought with it. That's because it's basically a one woman army. It breaks through cores that at one point were seen as incredibly effective (think CeleTran) as if they were nothing. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that simply beating outdated defensive cores makes something broken, it's more that usually they become outdated because of a new wallbreaker. But Mega Kangaskhan isn't a wallbreaker; it's a sweeper that just happens to blow apart defensive cores anyway. You can bring Magnezone to trap Skarmory if you want to, but honestly, you can just run Fire Punch to beat it anyway. You can run Pursuit trap Tyranitar to trap Trevenant, but you could just run Crunch instead. As I said before, there is no real counter to Mega Kangashkan already, even discounting the five other Pokemon it can have to support it. Add that in, and there is nothing that can stop it from sweeping. The only way you really "beat" Mega Kangaskhan is if the player using it misplays, or you get lucky. Mega Kangaskhan is just such a low risk, high reward Pokemon that it breaks the game.

So yeah...tl;dr Mega Kangaskhan is a fucking broken piece of shit.

I can't imagine the agony of writing the "cons" section in the C&C thread. Props to you for finding something decently persuasive.

 

[SuperMeep]

Problem is Dusclops is slow as hell and it cannot safely switch into Kanga in fear of Crunch. It will not survive back to back Crunches hitting four times. You either have to sacrifice a pokemon, and then burn it (where it will still kill Dusclops if it is +2 Burn) meaning you just lost two pokemon to take out one pokemon with a VERY niche strategy, leaving the rest of your opponents team to wreck havoc on your now completely gimped team because you had to worry about killing M-Kanga completely to have any chance at all. Oh, and a switch to a Talonflame, a pokemon almost everyone seems to be using, is the perfect response to a Dusclops hitting the field. Sorry, this is not really a sound strategy overall. :/



Actually, it sure as hell can. Predict a Ghost swap, and PuP with Scrappy. Mega Evlove next turn and ruin its day with +1 Crunch hitting twice.



Except there is usually a pokemon or two that can safely switch into other pokemon, even late game. Kanga has too much coverage to allow that to happen safely AT ALL. You will need to kill off one of your pokemon fully. That is a waste.

Did you factor in burn. Cause if that happens it's burned. and how does Talonflame counter defensive dusclops, other than absorbing will-o-wisp?

 

[Dread Arceus]

Khan's broke as shit. It has 2 true counters: Cofagrigus and (assuming Will-O doesn't miss) Sableye. Rocky Helmet mons? Drain Punch. Bulky Ghosts? Crunch. Raw power? It easily gets to +2 with Parental Bond on 125 base Attack and then launches a STAB base 102 move. Bulk? 105/100/100 (more bulk than some utility walls). Priority? Sucker Punch. This thing is a weapon that belongs to compete for teamslots with the likes of Extremekiller Arceus.

 

[vayu]

I personally believe that Mega Kangaskhan is extremely broken, and every team needs to run a counter just for this. As a result, it is my belief that...

IT SHOULD STAY IN OU.

Yes, really. Let me explain.

The reason being that it uses up your Mega Evolution slot, and by banning it, you overcentralize the metagame again. Think about it. Before Gengarite was banned, everyone used their Mega Evolution slot on Gengar, with a few using it on other pokes. Gengar was the best Mega (besides Mewtwo/Blaziken, which are ban-worthy even without Mega Evolution).

Then Gengarite was banned, so everyone who did have Mega Gengar on their team switched to using other Megas, most notably Mega Kangaskhan. The gameplay of the tier has shifted. Rather than trying to counter Mega Gengar, everyone just shifted to countering Mega Kangaskhan instead. Because that is what became necessary.

If Kangaskhanite is banned, then who's to say that these same people won't switch over to Mega Lucario (great attacking stats and Adaptability) or Mega Mawile (105 Huge Power!) or Mega Medicham (a better movepool and is faster than Mega Mawile, albeit less bulky)? Heck, even Mega Heracross probably gets enough use to the point that it's (probably) not going to be in UU. And we just ban Mega Stone after Mega Stone until there's nothing left. Mega Evolution, which is supposed to be the gimmick that separates Gen VI from Gen V, will be regulated to Ubers-only play before too long.

I worry that if we go ban happy on Mega Stones, we open up this very real possibility. And thus, this new gameplay mechanic will go largely unexplored (as a majority of users prefer to play OU over Ubers). And since this is something that Smogon has no history of dealing with, I feel that we should think about this before jumping to any conclusions.

Is Mega Kangaskhan broken, even for a Mega? Maybe. But until we do more extensive testing on Mega Evolutions, I don't think that we can say that for sure, so I don't think that the Kangaskhanite should be banned right now. Maybe after a suspect test, I will be proven wrong. At that point, I will no longer object to the ban.

Thats not really a solid argument, we've banned the first rain threat in gen 5, and then banned a couple more. Things will be considered as the meta changes, thinking what could theoretically happen when this obvious broken crap is banned is more or less irrelevant.

Khan really should have been banned first merely because of its brain dead power, at least gengar required a little bit of finesse ( still broken as shit but whatever...)

 

[Toljik]

This is starting to feel like a treadmill. A Mega is too powerful and gets banned, so another powerful Mega rises in usage and becomes overcentralizing, so it needs to banned too.

Which Mega will take the place of Kangaskhan?

 

[GDK]

I personally believe that Mega Kangaskhan is extremely broken, and every team needs to run a counter just for this. As a result, it is my belief that...

IT SHOULD STAY IN OU.

Yes, really. Let me explain.

The reason being that it uses up your Mega Evolution slot, and by banning it, you overcentralize the metagame again. Think about it. Before Gengarite was banned, everyone used their Mega Evolution slot on Gengar, with a few using it on other pokes. Gengar was the best Mega (besides Mewtwo/Blaziken, which are ban-worthy even without Mega Evolution).

Then Gengarite was banned, so everyone who did have Mega Gengar on their team switched to using other Megas, most notably Mega Kangaskhan. The gameplay of the tier has shifted. Rather than trying to counter Mega Gengar, everyone just shifted to countering Mega Kangaskhan instead. Because that is what became necessary.

If Kangaskhanite is banned, then who's to say that these same people won't switch over to Mega Lucario (great attacking stats and Adaptability) or Mega Mawile (105 Huge Power!) or Mega Medicham (a better movepool and is faster than Mega Mawile, albeit less bulky)? Heck, even Mega Heracross probably gets enough use to the point that it's (probably) not going to be in UU. And we just ban Mega Stone after Mega Stone until there's nothing left. Mega Evolution, which is supposed to be the gimmick that separates Gen VI from Gen V, will be regulated to Ubers-only play before too long.

I worry that if we go ban happy on Mega Stones, we open up this very real possibility. And thus, this new gameplay mechanic will go largely unexplored (as a majority of users prefer to play OU over Ubers). And since this is something that Smogon has no history of dealing with, I feel that we should think about this before jumping to any conclusions.

Is Mega Kangaskhan broken, even for a Mega? Maybe. But until we do more extensive testing on Mega Evolutions, I don't think that we can say that for sure, so I don't think that the Kangaskhanite should be banned right now. Maybe after a suspect test, I will be proven wrong. At that point, I will no longer object to the ban.

Except not everybody used M-gengar and not everybody uses M Khan right now (well most people thinking it's broken).

M Khan is broken and always will be. A free band on a 125 base atk poke with side effect like getting +2 instead of +1 and the ability to change move. And it gets priority too?
Yeah Ban that thing.
And don't forget a thing that can make an item as gimmicky as rocky helmet a must have is unhealthy for the meta.

 

[Shuchi]

Its counters can only counter the specific khan set they were built to counter, if you end up facing one that is a different set then you are screwed

So basically you're saying its counters cant counter it

 

[sidakarya]

This is starting to feel like a treadmill. A Mega is too powerful and gets banned, so another powerful Mega rises in usage and becomes overcentralizing, so it needs to banned too.

Which Mega will take the place of Kangaskhan?

Not much imo. As I said, the two closest things to M-Khan (Lucario and Mawile) have several outstanding problems that make them less overpowered. Lucario is a glass cannon and because of this, has less set-up opportunities. Mawile has terrible speed and a sub-par base form, and is much more limited in what it can do than Lucario or Kangaskhan. Maybe M-Luke might take its place, but this is really not what this discussion is about.

 

[ROBx4]

So basically you're saying its counters cant counter it

yes

 

[ROBx4]

This is starting to feel like a treadmill. A Mega is too powerful and gets banned, so another powerful Mega rises in usage and becomes overcentralizing, so it needs to banned too.

Which Mega will take the place of Kangaskhan?

The current meta is too fat, it could use a treadmill

 

[Magcargo]

Personally I believe the Mega-Kangskhan is definitely worthy of a quick ban. Although not as broken as Mega Gengar, Mega-Kangaskhan is still very noncompetitive due to its ability Parental Bond, essentially giving a free Choice Band Boost with the additional benefits of breaking substitute, getting a pseudo Swords Dance Boost with Power UP Punch, chipping away 200 HP from the foe with Seismic Toss and still having the ability switch moves.

Now, there are several valid reasons why this Pokemon could remain in OU. It is checked by Pokemon such as Terrakion, and Keldeo as well as priority attacks, loses half of its health against Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin Users, and is countered by Sableye. However the fact that you NEED to run at least 2 of these Pokemon just to not get swept is ridiculous, especially considering how niche some of these Pokemon are. Mega Kangaskhan also needs to be at a lower range of health for priority attacks to KO it, as even CB Talonflame's Brave Bird does not OHKO it at full health.

As I have previously stated, Parental Bond is what really makes Mega Kangaskhan broken, essentially giving it a similar damage output to Choice Band Terrakion. Its faster checks are defeated with the combination of Return and Sucker Punch, while Pokemon such as Skarmory, Aegislash, Heatran, and Gourgeist can be defeated by using a specific coverage move (Fire Punch, Crunch, Earthquake),. Being able to do a guaranteed 200 damage with Seismic Toss is also is insane and can actually 2HKO some its "counters" such as Skarmory and Forretress.

tl;dr Mega Knagakhan deserves a ban.

 

[Ryolain]

Having used MKang on all of my teams since the inception of XY, I am fully in favor of banning it. There are simply no completely safe switch-ins to all of its sets except for Sableye. People really like to bring up Rocky Helmet Ferro/Skarm since they aren't unusual sets and they have great viability outside of just crippling MKang, so it's easy to build a team including them that's not centralized around stopping MKang. Personally, I hope this argument continues to be popular - I love the free ratings boosts I get off these people when MKang 2HKOs them with Fire Blast and then they ragequit.

If you don't carry the correct switch-in to MKang's set or you use the wrong one, you will lose, plain and simple. Saying "You can beat it by predicting better than your opponent and dancing around scouting its moveset until you know what to check it with" has nothing to do with the actual Poke we're discussing and is only a measure of your opponent's skill. It can also be applied to any sweeper in the game, so it's moot.

To be completely safe from all MKang sets, you're either required to carry Sableye or you need at least 2 Pokes - a Ghost for those that don't run Crunch and a Rocky Helmet user for those that do. Otherwise you'll lose to it half the time, and you'll be guaranteed to lose at least one Poke if you guess wrong. Nothing safely scouts it, either, because half the time "scouting" means dying to an attack you're attempting to feel out.

 

[Magnemite]

Did you factor in burn. Cause if that happens it's burned. and how does Talonflame counter defensive dusclops, other than absorbing will-o-wisp?

How exactly does it get burned before Kangaskhan uses Crunch? It's not like Dusclops automatically burns every Pokemon it switches in on. It takes very heavy damage before it even has the chance to burn it. Basically, you're wasting a teamslot on an awful Pokemon that has little use outside of Kanga just so you can burn Kangaskhan and then die to it immediately afterwards. Yeah, what a great counter.

 

[MilkyWay]

For now I'm certainly leaning towards uber because this thing is effectively a base 125 atk pokemon with a choice band, except it can switch moves, boost, has priotriy, decent bulk, perfect coverage, 100 base speed, and can break substitutes/sashes/sturdy all at the same time. Sableye is certainly a counter, but other than that this thing has few ou viable counters. Besides, Genesect was flat out walled by Heatran but it still got banned last gen.

Also does anyone else think we should post a poll like we did with gengarite?

 

[Olly]

Sorry but this thing has to go in my opinion.

It just defines over centralising. People are running all kinds of shenanigans just to deal with Mega Kangaskhan. Rocky Helmet usage is increasing solely with Mega Kangaskhan in mind imo. The biggest problem I have is with the exception of Sableye it can beat nearly all of it's switch ins if it's running the right moves. The switch ins are predictable, so you can easily nail these things on the switch.

It just guarantees too many easy faints with minimal effort or prediction.

 

[Arcticblast]

If a plain old explanation won't cut it for the anti-ban side, how about this?

Let's take Choice Band Terrakion - one of the flagship sets of the BW metagame. It didn't have very many checks or counters and was very difficult to handle, but it could be dealt with.

Now let's give that Choice Band Terrakion the freedom to switch moves without losing the Choice Band boost. That leaves it walled by a few things still, right?

Let's upgrade the Swords Dance it already gets so that it does damage.

Now let's tack on powerful priority that hits every type that resists or is immune to its STAB for at least neutral damage.

Let's upgrade its bulk and give it a typing that leaves it with only one weakness at the cost of a slight drop in Speed.

Now let's let it break through Substitutes just for fun.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mega Kangaskhan.

EDIT: oh shit this was my 4k wasn't it?
lol

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Halcyon did a good job of summing up some of the major points for a Mega Kangaskhan ban. I honestly think it's easily the most broken thing in OU right now. To make a long story short, it's powerful enough to 2HKO virtually the entire game. It has more bulk than a Jirachi, making it harder to KO and keep in check. It has Sucker Punch to prevent a lot of faster Pokemon from beating it. It only has one weakness, and its single immunity is actually pretty good in a metagame where Ghost is such a great STAB. Defensive teams struggle to wall it. Offensive teams struggle to bring it down. It essentially runs the show with nearly no risk or opportunity cost whatsoever. In my mind, there's no question that this thing is ridiculous and needs to go.

What I'm really wondering is why Substitute keeps being mentioned as a counter? Besides the fact that Substitute can't be an actual counter by the very nature of what a "counter" is, one of the defining qualities of Parental Bond is the fact that it allows Mega Kangaskhan to break a Substitute (or Sturdy/Focus Sash, for that matter) with the first hit and hit the opponent with the second. You'd be hard pressed to find any Pokemon that can make a Substitute that Mega Kangaskhan can't break with that first hit. Spamming Substitute doesn't beat Mega Kangaskhan. It just wears you down more quickly.

This is starting to feel like a treadmill. A Mega is too powerful and gets banned, so another powerful Mega rises in usage and becomes overcentralizing, so it needs to banned.

Which Mega will take the place of Kangaskhan?

To be fair, the first two Pokemon quickbanned were Blaziken and Deoxys-N, neither of which were Mega Pokemon (Blaziken had a Mega form, sure, but it was still banned as a whole). We just ban what's broken, regardless of whether it's a Mega Pokemon or not. Whether the next suspect is Genesect, Mega Lucario, Deoxys-S, or something else entirely, we'll ban it if it's broken. If you're worried that banning one Mega form will just make the others broken until all of them are banned, then I can assure you that several Mega forms such as Mega Manectric and Mega Aggron are a long ways from being banned (in fact, the only potentially broken Mega form besides Mega Kangaskhan I can think of off the top of my head is Mega Lucario).

 

[Orga777]

Did you factor in burn. Cause if that happens it's burned. and how does Talonflame counter defensive dusclops, other than absorbing will-o-wisp?

Best thing to do would be to U-Turn out to something else, or even Kanga again if you predict he won't use Will-O-Wisp again. And if it already too a Crunch on a swap in, well... he won't be living too much longer anyway. You can also just swap in another faster, stronger ghost (which there are plenty of now) to completely cave Dusclops in. Sorry, I just do not find Dusclops a legitimate enough pokemon to be used on most teams when there are plenty of better options over him. Sableye, Trevenant, and Gourgeist all do a better job than him and can all hold themselves in a drawn out fight against more threats than Dusclops ever will. If you have to run a Dusclops just in fear of running into a Kangaskhan, well, that just means the meta-game is that screwed up that you have to use a comparatively weak pokemon that has niche uses just to take out one pokemon. Others covered this above on why using uncommon checks (not even counters!) for a single pokemon is completely absurd.

 

[Zarthga]

I think it should be banned. With only a few Power-up Punches, MegaKhan can basically knock anything out, and due to it's decent bulk and speed, can be a huge pain in the ass to take down. Yeah, there's a few Pokemon that can handle MegaKhan, like Unaware Quagsire (if it has a few Stockpiles/Curses set up), and bulky Ghosts like Cofagrigus, but overall, MegaKhan just wrecks everything. It's a huge threat that's hard to find a good counter to, and it requires virtually no support.

 

[ogasian]

All of you guys who are saying MKanga isn't broken and easily played around are either a) theorymoning or b) facing absolute scrubs

With that said, I would like Mkhanga to go Ubers. MKhanga is simply ridiculous. Here are your options for dealing with it-

CB Conk (RK)
CB Loom (RK) and if it has prior damage it's fucked
Terrakion (killed if weakened to like 40 percent by sucker
Keldeo (only can take on Mkanga if specs or Khanga is weakened)
Sableye (counter and also pretty decent IMO)
RH Skarm (>tanks PUP>murdured by Return/Crunch>whirlwinds>Skarmis now fodder)

If that's not fucking overcentralizing and broken IDK what the hell is. That's 2 suboptimal sets as Revenge Killers, and Skarm is severly crippled in the process. That's like 1 true counter. 1. Get that into your heads. ONE TRUE COUNTER THAT IS aCTuALly OU VIABLE. Dont even think of mentioning Dusclops LOL.

So basically you're saying its counters cant counter it

yes

 

[Tressed]

For now I'm certainly leaning towards uber because this thing is effectively a base 125 atk pokemon with a choice band, except it can switch moves, boost, has priotriy, decent bulk, perfect coverage, 100 base speed, and can break substitutes/sashes/sturdy all at the same time. Sableye is certainly a counter, but other than that this thing has few ou viable counters. Besides, Genesect was flat out walled by Heatran but it still got banned last gen.

Also does anyone else think we should post a poll like we did with gengarite?

Tons of people just voted OU, didn't explain why, and didn't bother listening to the arguments that the other side brought up. That by itself should explain why the poll doesn't matter, since it ended up being pretty 50/50 at the end, but the vast majority of the arguments were for banning it.

If a plain old explanation won't cut it for the anti-ban side, how about this?

Let's take Choice Band Terrakion - one of the flagship sets of the BW metagame. It didn't have very many checks or counters and was very difficult to handle, but it could be dealt with.

Now let's give that Choice Band Terrakion the freedom to switch moves without losing the Choice Band boost. That leaves it walled by a few things still, right?

Let's upgrade the Swords Dance it already gets so that it does damage.

Now let's tack on powerful priority that hits every type that resists or is immune to its STAB for at least neutral damage.

Let's upgrade its bulk and give it a typing that leaves it with only one weakness at the cost of a slight drop in Speed.

Now let's let it break through Substitutes just for fun.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mega Kangaskhan.

EDIT: oh shit this was my 4k wasn't it?
lol

Nicely put, time to start working on 5k :D

 

[LordRandomness]

I think the Kanga is actually not as OP as everyone thinks, it is easily checked by Mega Lucario, rocky helmet ferrothorn and RH skarmory, as well as Mega Bannette provided that Kanga has lost scrappy by mega evolving. It has a hard time dealing with ghosts that can set up on it and have enough bulk to survive a sucker punch. On the positive side, the Kanga has great bulk, as well as a ridiculous amount of attack that breaks through sashes and subs, it could even run a 252hp and 252atk adamament set, with fake out and suckerpunch to make up for its speed, as well as return and powerup punch to set up and hit with a powerful stab attack, this set works best in conjuction with a sticky web user such as smeargle or galvantula

I would like to point out that Ghosts will tend to die to Crunch variants and can't STAB back, making them unacceptable as checks. The fact that checks are specifically required to run the generally suboptimal Rocky Helmet in a lot of cases is kind of telling, frankly.

 

[Dukewarrior13]

IMO, this thing has enough counters to allow it to stay in OU. WOW, Substitute, Ghosts, anything with a damaging ability + rock helmet, etc.

Few ghosts can withstand Kangaskhan's wrath and I don't want to think about what happens if will-o-wisp misses. Mega-Kang's ability allows it to hit after subs and it forces a lot of pokes to wear rocky helmets that don't normally wear them just so they have a small chance to wear down kang. The posts of other people further solidify my position.

 

[Ash Borer]

Keldeo (only can take on Mkanga if specs or Khanga is weakened)

LO keldeo OHKOs with secret sword, but yeah, e-belt/scarf gets rekt, kanga's bulk is out of this world.