Pokémon Klefki

[neato]

^ god that set is smart.

Also, I tihnk the reason complain about swagkey is that the chance is drawn out over several turns. Say you get stone edged and it crits. the Pokemon dies instantly. Its over and done with. With klefki, you get paralyzed and confused but you cant do anything about it. It'll be a few turns before your pokemon goes down with you having to rely on 25% everyturn to do sometihng.

 

[EtherDrive]

i thought recycle didn't work with eject button/red card

 

[Pipotchi]

i thought recycle didn't work with eject button/red card

According to smogon recycle will recycle anything apart from popped air balloon or an item gotten rid of with knock-off (or any of the similar item stealers/destroyers, like incinerate/thief). It also remembers the eject button after you switch out, so it should definitely work :s

 

[neato]

so I was trying the recycle set. and holy shit pip it's like a whole new archetype of pivot. magnezone can recycle red card too.

 

[Iodic Acid]

Maybe Klefki can utilise Eject button to be a good slow pivot.

Klefki @ eject button
Ability: Prankster
Bold Nature
4Hp / 252 Def / 252 spD
-Thunder Wave/Torment
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Recycle


The idea is to be a strong pivot that assists a setup sweeper heavily, and is designed to be used with any substitute-using sweeper. On the first use, your aim is to set up the correct screen before being ejected. This gives a sweeper an immediate free switch-in, and it should be able to get behind a substitute with the appropriate blocking screen the next turn.

On the second switch-in you have a different role- your eject button is consumed so not every hit will switch you out. This now gives you the chance of choosing to slow-baton pass to an ally by using recycle on the turn you want klefki to switch out. This means klefki will absorb a hit before passing out to an ally, giving them a free switch.

I added torment as an option instead of thunder wave. I think torment is a strong move to be able to switch certain pokemon into, especially if you have any pokemon on your team with protect- for instance, speed boost sharpedo, yanmega or a pokemon like Vaporeon/Umbreon/Sylveon with wishpass and immunities to certain moves (water/psychic/dragon).All these pokemon can potentially dodge powerful moves aimed at them altogether, and either stall out the enemy with toxic+wish (for the eeveelutions) or just ohko an opponent without access to powerful moves for the speed boosters.

Is there a specific reason for that EV spread? On Klefki, 8 HP EVs provides more physical and special bulk than 4 Def and 4 SpD EVs.

 

[Pipotchi]

Is there a specific reason for that EV spread? On Klefki, 8 HP EVs provides more physical and special bulk than 4 Def and 4 SpD EVs.

Nope I wasnt sure about the ev spread I just wanted to show the moveset. Ill change it in the main post to 252/252/4 I guess due to how common physical ground moves are?

 

[alibear]

Swagger + Foul Play is a much better moveset IMO. Throw in Substitute for stalling and priority Thunder Wave to cripple sweepers.

Order: Swagger, Substitute, Foul Play/Thunder Wave (depending on what it is you're trying to achieve). Rinse and repeat.

 

[Punchshroom]

Swagger + Foul Play is a much better moveset IMO. Throw in Substitute for stalling and priority Thunder Wave to cripple sweepers.

Order: Swagger, Substitute, Foul Play/Thunder Wave (depending on what it is you're trying to achieve). Rinse and repeat.

...You do realize this isn't anything new right, if not one of the very first things people noticed about Klefki? There are multiple pages before regarding discussion of SwagKey, and you just strut right up and say this is the 'better' moveset. People tend to stray away due to the 'brainlessness' of the moveset (you're essentially hoping the opponent remains immobile, or you won't get to do anything), or they want a more consistent Klefki like Spikes or Dual Screens. I think you're just being skeptical on the Eject Button set, but don't just straight up recommend the SwagKey set like it's the best one out there: it doesn't even do what the Eject Button set does, which is set up Screens.

That said, kudos to the Eject Button set creator for that fun set.

 

[king chespin]

Swagger + Foul Play is a much better moveset IMO. Throw in Substitute for stalling and priority Thunder Wave to cripple sweepers.

Order: Swagger, Substitute, Foul Play/Thunder Wave (depending on what it is you're trying to achieve). Rinse and repeat.

I guess that set could work out alright... until you face a physical pokemon with priorty not named ice shard or quick attack, who appreciates the attack boost and starts killing your team.
Of course, the +2 attack could be used for ditto....

 

[alibear]

I guess that set could work out alright... until you face a physical pokemon with priorty not named ice shard or quick attack, who appreciates the attack boost and starts killing your team.
Of course, the +2 attack could be used for ditto....

Yeah true, well it's luck based strategy. 50% chance the target hits itself and gives Klefki a free turn to then set up Substitute and TW and then hit with Foul Play until they break Substitute (and then swagger again etc). IF it goes wrong and they attack Klefki, it's typing definitely helps it survive and try again. Really though I mainly just use Klefki to sabotage set up sweepers.

 

[EtherDrive]

Maybe Klefki can utilise Eject button to be a good slow pivot.

Klefki @ eject button
Ability: Prankster
Bold Nature
252Hp / 252 Def / 4 spD
-Thunder Wave/Torment
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Recycle


The idea is to be a strong pivot that assists a setup sweeper heavily, and is designed to be used with any substitute-using sweeper. On the first use, your aim is to set up the correct screen before being ejected. This gives a sweeper an immediate free switch-in, and it should be able to get behind a substitute with the appropriate blocking screen the next turn.

On the second switch-in you have a different role- your eject button is consumed so not every hit will switch you out. This now gives you the chance of choosing to slow-baton pass to an ally by using recycle on the turn you want klefki to switch out. This means klefki will absorb a hit before passing out to an ally, giving them a free switch.

I added torment as an option instead of thunder wave. I think torment is a strong move to be able to switch certain pokemon into, especially if you have any pokemon on your team with protect- for instance, speed boost sharpedo, yanmega or a pokemon like Vaporeon/Umbreon/Sylveon with wishpass and immunities to certain moves (water/psychic/dragon).All these pokemon can potentially dodge powerful moves aimed at them altogether, and either stall out the enemy with toxic+wish (for the eeveelutions) or just ohko an opponent without access to powerful moves for the speed boosters.

To add on to moves you want to slash on. Slash in Fairy lock after torment.

Fairy lock paired with Perish Song politoed/Trevenant core is REALLY amazing. Will post replay when I get the chance

 

[Pipotchi]

That sounds ok but then you dont even have an offensive status move and rely entirely on people hitting you, otherwise you just become a worse dual screener. You also cant reliably re-use your eject button with fairy lock because you have to use recycle before fairy lock and pray that no-one hits you and shuffles you during the turn you use recycle. Being able to slow-pass a trapping move does sound potentially game-winning though, so Id like to see the replay a lot.

 

[Flamebot]

Maybe Klefki can utilise Eject button to be a good slow pivot.

Klefki @ eject button
Ability: Prankster
Bold Nature
252Hp / 252 Def / 4 spD
-Thunder Wave/Torment
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Recycle


The idea is to be a strong pivot that assists a setup sweeper heavily, and is designed to be used with any substitute-using sweeper. On the first use, your aim is to set up the correct screen before being ejected. This gives a sweeper an immediate free switch-in, and it should be able to get behind a substitute with the appropriate blocking screen the next turn.

On the second switch-in you have a different role- your eject button is consumed so not every hit will switch you out. This now gives you the chance of choosing to slow-baton pass to an ally by using recycle on the turn you want klefki to switch out. This means klefki will absorb a hit before passing out to an ally, giving them a free switch.

I added torment as an option instead of thunder wave. I think torment is a strong move to be able to switch certain pokemon into, especially if you have any pokemon on your team with protect- for instance, speed boost sharpedo, yanmega or a pokemon like Vaporeon/Umbreon/Sylveon with wishpass and immunities to certain moves (water/psychic/dragon).All these pokemon can potentially dodge powerful moves aimed at them altogether, and either stall out the enemy with toxic+wish (for the eeveelutions) or just ohko an opponent without access to powerful moves for the speed boosters.

That set seems scary (assuming you wont be OHKO'd, but what your opponent catchs on and uses Knock off? Now sure you could argue that screens are up, but what if something on my team has Brick Break?
Spikes could be used over Twave to. You would spike, switch (likely spin blocker or something to deal with there defogger) and if you opponent manages to pull of Rapid spin or defogger you could switch something in to take out the defogger or spinner, Switch back in, Spike again. Toxic would be funny to. You could use Metal sound or Sunny day to. These are some other moves I think could work with eject button.
Anyways, you should replace a move on that set with a damaging one just incase.

 

[Pipotchi]

That set seems scary (assuming you wont be OHKO'd, but what your opponent catchs on and uses Knock off? Now sure you could argue that screens are up, but what if something on my team has Brick Break?
Spikes could be used over Twave to. You would spike, switch (likely spin blocker or something to deal with there defogger) and if you opponent manages to pull of Rapid spin or defogger you could switch something in to take out the defogger or spinner, Switch back in, Spike again. Toxic would be funny to. You could use Metal sound or Sunny day to. These are some other moves I think could work with eject button.
Anyways, you should replace a move on that set with a damaging one just incase.

Well klefki has a 4x resistance to dark so although it loses its item, it takes minimal damage and can still set up screens and t-wave. Knock off's effect is damaging to pretty much all pokemon and this set is no exception. However it doesn't completely cripple this set because Klefki still has its ability to use dual screens and thunder wave. The real threat is taunt as it shuts down every move in the set, in particular priority taunt.. although not knowing klefki's moveset an enemy is still likely to hit klefki and activate the eject button as intended.

I thought a lot about how to incorporate other moves such as sunny day, spikes, fairy lock etc- but the problem is that klefki needs at least one offensive move (whether it be a status like torment or t-wave, or foul play), or else the opponent can happily set up on you while you just sorta hope he hits you. Even the torment option is risky, but at least prevents your opponent from just repeatedly using a setup move. That's why Im not a huge fan of something like sunny day / light screen / reflect / recycle. Ive tried it before and it never feels like a good idea to use the sunny day over the screen, especially without a heat rock.

So I think if you want to use a spikes moveset with eject button, use a moveset something like this:

Foul Play/ Thunder Wave
Spikes
Fairy Lock
Recycle

Basically: this set is used to trap and kill rapid spinners. Switch in and start putting out and many spikes as you can, and on the turn you expect them to hit you with rapid spin, use fairy lock. This locks them in while you get to switch out into something to kill their trapper.
If you are afraid of excadrill switching in and using his thunder wave immunity to swords dance, you can use foul play instead of it to kill him- however this kinda weakens your ability to slow-pivot later.
This wont work so well with defoggers as they aren't required to hit you, but I think if rapid spin stays common then this will be an option for klefki. Its more gimmicky but Im sure its still usable, and although they both do completely different things with the eject button, I think the double screens set is better at it's job than this one due to having more bulk and less criteria to meet to do its job well.

I did some calculations against Excadrill, who is probably the spinner most scary to Klefki(??)
If he swords dances expecting you to switch:
+2 0- Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 351-413 (97.2 - 114.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

If he earthquakes expecting you to stay in:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 284-336 (88.7 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

You're unlikely to die, and in return excadrill will be trapped by fairy lock and will die the next turn. Similarly, if he uses rapid spin instead of earthquake he will still be trapped and die, and you can set up your hazards again later. I guess this is quite relieving as it turns an almost hard-counter into a very very shaky check at best- Klefki can also ensure the revenge kill with fairy lock even if it predicts wrong.

 

[Flamebot]

Well klefki has a 4x resistance to dark so although it loses its item, it takes minimal damage and can still set up screens and t-wave. Knock off's effect is damaging to pretty much all pokemon and this set is no exception. However it doesn't completely cripple this set because Klefki still has its ability to use dual screens and thunder wave. The real threat is taunt as it shuts down every move in the set, in particular priority taunt.. although not knowing klefki's moveset an enemy is still likely to hit klefki and activate the eject button as intended.

I thought a lot about how to incorporate other moves such as sunny day, spikes, fairy lock etc- but the problem is that klefki needs at least one offensive move (whether it be a status like torment or t-wave, or foul play), or else the opponent can happily set up on you while you just sorta hope he hits you. Even the torment option is risky, but at least prevents your opponent from just repeatedly using a setup move. That's why Im not a huge fan of something like sunny day / light screen / reflect / recycle. Ive tried it before and it never feels like a good idea to use the sunny day over the screen, especially without a heat rock.

So I think if you want to use a spikes moveset with eject button, use a moveset something like this:

Foul Play/ Thunder Wave
Spikes
Fairy Lock
Recycle

Basically: this set is used to trap and kill rapid spinners. Switch in and start putting out and many spikes as you can, and on the turn you expect them to hit you with rapid spin, use fairy lock. This locks them in while you get to switch out into something to kill their trapper.
If you are afraid of excadrill switching in and using his thunder wave immunity to swords dance, you can use foul play instead of it to kill him- however this kinda weakens your ability to slow-pivot later.
This wont work so well with defoggers as they aren't required to hit you, but I think if rapid spin stays common then this will be an option for klefki. Its more gimmicky but Im sure its still usable, and although they both do completely different things with the eject button, I think the double screens set is better at it's job than this one due to having more bulk and less criteria to meet to do its job well.

I thought of taunt to, but Idk. The problem with screening is that it allows the opponent to set up. Tho screens are very useful.
Twave works, but Ttar and Gliscor(who if you were in at the same time as Gliscor would be a wasted moveslot, and allows Toxic Protect Gliscor to toxic whatever comes out) are both immune to it, while Foul play atleast does something to them. Have you tried Metal sound instead of Twave? Now they are at -2 defence, allowing things like (I'd assume) Techican Scizor, Choice banded Azumaril ethier force a switch or OHKO them. Sound like a funny thing to do actually. I might try it.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

I do think the Eject Button Pivoting set is fantastic, if not for functionality, than for creativity at the very least.

I don't see it actually panning out in practice. Klefki has no way to reliably recover health which is compounded by the fact that you are forgoing Leftovers recovery and deliberately setting yourself up to take hits, so it's likely got a fairly short timer in which it can actually be utilised. Theoretically, it sounds fantastic for getting early game momentum which is extremely important so it's fairly cool, but I'm not sure it justifies the opportunity cost of just using something like, Genesect which grabs momentum almost as well or pressuring the opponent with Hazards or whatever that moveslot Recycle is taking up would entail you lost.

 

[sjaq]

I like to use a dual screens klefki + Belly Drum Azumarill. It's too powerful.

 

[Pipotchi]

I do think the Eject Button Pivoting set is fantastic, if not for functionality, than for creativity at the very least.

I don't see it actually panning out in practice. Klefki has no way to reliably recover health which is compounded by the fact that you are forgoing Leftovers recovery and deliberately setting yourself up to take hits, so it's likely got a fairly short timer in which it can actually be utilised. Theoretically, it sounds fantastic for getting early game momentum which is extremely important so it's fairly cool, but I'm not sure it justifies the opportunity cost of just using something like, Genesect which grabs momentum almost as well or pressuring the opponent with Hazards or whatever that moveslot Recycle is taking up would entail you lost.

Hmm, I understand the issue but lack of recovery can be worked around as a team issue rather than a solo one. I said before that the torment pass would be good when paired with pokemon who use protect- well one of the main users of protect are pokemon with wish. Klefki would pair very well with a pokemon with a good defensive typing, decent offensive options as well as wish support- for instance, jirachi. Now klefki can potentially pass jirachi torment, which would be frustrating beyond belief, as well as recieve wishes back. What's more, klefki can help jirachi wishpass to an injured pokemon completely safely, by switching to klefki after using wish to absorb the hit before switching to the weakened pokemon who can then recieve the wish without taking any damage. Genesect is a great pokemon except he does something completely different to the role of dual screens and slow pivoting. While the uses of eject button are really bizzare and might therefore seem impractical, it grants you a load of really powerful options due to your opponent having no idea how to play against it- for instance the absorption wishpass (and even if your opponent does know about such tricks, it will only make them more cautious as you have more options). Similarly the lack of bulk issue gets somewhat relieved by good defensive typing and access to priority dual screens.
I guess ultimately its a fun set but I think it also provides you with techniques you cant gain through any other method, for instance using it to reset a choice user's attack choice or absorbing a hit on the way to a wish recipient. There's probably very little point using the set though if you arent using recycle, because otherwise its just defensive pokemon + eject button, which feels kinda lackluster due to the item being one-use.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Hmm, I understand the issue but lack of recovery can be worked around as a team issue rather than a solo one. I said before that the torment pass would be good when paired with pokemon who use protect- well one of the main users of protect are pokemon with wish. Klefki would pair very well with a pokemon with a good defensive typing, decent offensive options as well as wish support- for instance, jirachi. Now klefki can potentially pass jirachi torment, which would be frustrating beyond belief, as well as recieve wishes back. What's more, klefki can help jirachi wishpass to an injured pokemon completely safely, by switching to klefki after using wish to absorb the hit before switching to the weakened pokemon who can then recieve the wish without taking any damage. Genesect is a great pokemon except he does something completely different to the role of dual screens and slow pivoting. While the uses of eject button are really bizzare and might therefore seem impractical, it grants you a load of really powerful options due to your opponent having no idea how to play against it- for instance the absorption wishpass (and even if your opponent does know about such tricks, it will only make them more cautious as you have more options). Similarly the lack of bulk issue gets somewhat relieved by good defensive typing and access to priority dual screens.
I guess ultimately its a fun set but I think it also provides you with techniques you cant gain through any other method, for instance using it to reset a choice user's attack choice or absorbing a hit on the way to a wish recipient. There's probably very little point using the set though if you arent using recycle, because otherwise its just defensive pokemon + eject button, which feels kinda lackluster due to the item being one-use.

Oh don't misunderstand me, I love the set and I'm definitely not suggesting dropping Recycle while using Eject Button. I hope you don't think so little of my intelligence that I'd suggest something as asinine as that. I think your set is brilliantly innovative and definitely worth exploring the use of, i.e. I think it has a niche, but one that requires some pretty specific team support, doesn't necessarily outclass any of Klefki's other sets and isn't without its own shortcomings.

 

[GMac316]

I've been playing quite a bit of rated battle on the 3DS since its now back up and I've seen a nice little combo in the double battles using Klefki with swagger and safe guard. IDK if this has been mentioned before I'm to lazy to check and scroll threw pages and pages of text. Has anyone else tried out this combo? and what would be a basic moveset for it?
I was thinking something like

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Thunder wave
- Safeguard

 

[EtherDrive]

prankster safeguard is kinda old and, of course, swagger has been spammed on the ladder forever now (if not with klefki, definitely Liepard if they don't do Prankster assist cheese) It's great if you don't want to deal with stuff like t-waves/burns etc. but you still have to keep in mind fake out, which takes priority over prankster and can potentially fuq keys up if the partner is something that can deal with it.

 

[rcade216]

Maybe Klefki can utilise Eject button to be a good slow pivot.

Klefki @ eject button
Ability: Prankster
Bold Nature
252Hp / 252 Def / 4 spD
-Thunder Wave/Torment
-Light Screen
-Reflect
-Recycle

Tried this setup and it is great.


I have been using it to setup my Belly Drum Unburden Slurpuff






Looking over the discussion on Banning SwagKey or Prankster.

Like I can see how there is an Evasion Clause, even though now Whirlwind, Roar, and Dragon Tail hits through Minimize and Double Team if I remember correctly, but in the past there was no way to stop someone that Minimized or Double Teamed.

With Confusion if you are not carrying a berry you simply switch out to snap out of the confusion, sure this is annoying and a pain, but how is this ban worthy?

I understand how people see this as luck, which everyone has the same chance to use this luck. Although I guess if luck is not on your side I may want it banned as well. There is plenty in the game that annoys me. Like how the other night I kept missing with a 90% accuracy Rough Play while my opponent was continuously hitting me with an 80% accuracy Hydro Pump, but I am not saying we should ban every move with less than 90% accuracy because it is luck that those moves hit more often sometimes.

If I use Swagger and boost someones attack +2 stages and confuse them, but they still manage to hit me, luck was on their side and that is the risk I run when doing so.

I don't look at it as luck, there is a risk versus reward system. Just like with attacks, do you go for more power or more accuracy.

 

[ChopperDave]

Has anyone tried Switcheroo on this guy?

Something like:

Klefki @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature

- Foul Play / Drain Kiss
- Switcheroo
- Thunderwave
- Spikes

It's a simple idea: Switcheroo a scarf on to something that really doesn't like it, Thunder Wave to immediately eliminate the benefit of the scarf, Thunder Wave / Spikes on the switch.

I could see this being pretty handy as an anti-lead.

 

[Jojobobo]

Someone should run the statistics of how successful a SwagKey is on average to settle the argument. Personally I think the 50% chance of death against any decent Fire pokemon in turn one is a fairly good reason why it should not be banned. It's also countered pretty solidly by any ground, electric or Own Tempo pokemon (Fire Blast Slowbro/Slowking) and if you burn it or paralyse it yourself (or Knock Off its Leftovers if you catch it on a switch) it's done for. Any Infiltrator will also kill it or disable it with little hassle (Flamethrower/Switcheroo Noivern, Fireblast/WoW Chandlure, Switheroo Whimsicott). It's really very far from being impossible to counter. If people are really desperate, run an Eviolite Own Tempo Numel with Rest/Sleep Talk/Lava Plume/Earth Power - pretty much the hardest counter you are likely to get.

 

[cakeman265]