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Pokémon Klefki

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November Blue said:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75099717

SwagPlay Klefki turns out to be completely useless, and actually helps me out. Granted, my team is a little stally so it can't do much, but if you're having trouble with SwagPlay, maybe add a cleric to your team?
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Well, after watching this, it can be said, that it is your opponent fault for not noticing that it is useless to thunder wave everything since you can heal up with Wish + Healbell combination. Would have been smarter to switch into Landorus predicting earth power of Heatran and hope to get a chance to take out Sylveon.
 
November Blue said:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75099717

SwagPlay Klefki turns out to be completely useless, and actually helps me out. Granted, my team is a little stally so it can't do much, but if you're having trouble with SwagPlay, maybe add a cleric to your team?
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Wow, that's such a bad playing on your opponent's side it's not even an example. Did he forget that he could switch pokemons?

Anyway, you're right, Swagkey is underwhelming against stall teams.
 
November Blue said:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75099717

SwagPlay Klefki turns out to be completely useless, and actually helps me out. Granted, my team is a little stally so it can't do much, but if you're having trouble with SwagPlay, maybe add a cleric to your team?
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Your opponent kind of sucked, but you did also get pretty lucky with Sylveon and Heatran repeatedly getting through the ParaFusion. You barely got haxxed considering how often he was able to get both statuses on you.
 
November Blue said:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-75099717

SwagPlay Klefki turns out to be completely useless, and actually helps me out. Granted, my team is a little stally so it can't do much, but if you're having trouble with SwagPlay, maybe add a cleric to your team?
Click to expand...
Yeah just to get on the bandwagon, this game doesnt show an effective to shut down to klefki just a game where his shenanigans didnt work. There really is no reiable way to break through parafusion other than luck. Which is why he is so awesome/hated
 
Ryolain said:
Your opponent kind of sucked, but you did also get pretty lucky with Sylveon and Heatran repeatedly getting through the ParaFusion. You barely got haxxed considering how often he was able to get both statuses on you.
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MegaScizor said:
Yeah just to get on the bandwagon, this game doesnt show an effective to shut down to klefki just a game where his shenanigans didnt work. There really is no reiable way to break through parafusion other than luck. Which is why he is so awesome/hated
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And this is precisely why SwagKey is overhyped. It is not as good as people say it is, because you are relying on luck to win. You're hoping the opponent will stay in, hit themselves with confusion or get full para and you hitting them with Foul Play. SwagKey is starting to feel like that set that a scrub throws at a more skilled player after getting thoroughly outplayed and says "here, I know you outplayed me, so I'm going to just throw this at you and throw caution to the wind. I might get a win out of this, but if I don't, I was going to lose anyway".

That being said November Blue, SwagKey works best late game with multiple hazards down to reduce the luck needed to win (you still need to get lucky for SwagKey to "sweep"). Neither of which your opponent did. This is just another effect of the overhype of SwagKey: players think they can set it up whenever they want and autowin. And, yes, SwagKey does pretty terrible against stall (you don't even need a cleric) :/ .
 
JackieChun said:
And this is precisely why SwagKey is overhyped. It is not as good as people say it is, because you are relying on luck to win. You're hoping the opponent will stay in, hit themselves with confusion or get full para and you hitting them with Foul Play. SwagKey is starting to feel like that set that a scrub throws at a more skilled player after getting thoroughly outplayed and says "here, I know you outplayed me, so I'm going to just throw this at you and throw caution to the wind. I might get a win out of this, but if I don't, I was going to lose anyway".

That being said November Blue, SwagKey works best late game with multiple hazards down to reduce the luck needed to win (you still need to get lucky for SwagKey to "sweep"). Neither of which your opponent did. This is just another effect of the overhype of SwagKey: players think they can set it up whenever they want and autowin. And, yes, SwagKey does pretty terrible against stall (you don't even need a cleric) :/ .
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I would say the one place where SwagKey and parafusion/paraflinch in general is a viable strategy is when it's designed to run down an opponent's team in order to open up a sweep for a final cleaner. Get ParaFlinch Jirachi, Togekiss and Swagkey on a team, wear down your opponent as they struggle to kill you, then maul them with MLuc or MPinsir. Yes, you're still technically relying on luck, but there is a win condition built in rather than just "everything else died so I'm going to annoy you with SwagKey and hope I still win".
 
Ryolain said:
I would say the one place where SwagKey and parafusion/paraflinch in general is a viable strategy is when it's designed to run down an opponent's team in order to open up a sweep for a final cleaner. Get ParaFlinch Jirachi, Togekiss and Swagkey on a team, wear down your opponent as they struggle to kill you, then maul them with MLuc or MPinsir. Yes, you're still technically relying on luck, but there is a win condition built in rather than just "everything else died so I'm going to annoy you with SwagKey and hope I still win".
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Yeah, SwagKey is nor a sweeper neither a win condition, it's a great supporter. Use it early/mid battle to lay out Spikes, spread Paralysis, an play along the rest of your team. Mid/late game you'll have your opponent's team ready to be sweeped.

EDIT: This is why people hate Klefki, because they'd rather take the chance and call it hax than switch out (although I know I was incredibly lucky with 4 confusions in a row but that's the fun of flipping coins: it can come heads every time).
 
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guustavooo said:
Yeah, SwagKey is nor a sweeper neither a win condition, it's a great supporter. Use it early/mid battle to lay out Spikes, spread Paralysis, an play along the rest of your team. Mid/late game you'll have your opponent's team ready to be sweeped.

EDIT: This is why people hate Klefki, because they'd rather take the chance and call it hax than switch out (although I know I was incredibly lucky with 4 confusions in a row but that's the fun of flipping coins: it can come heads every time).
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What else would you expect them to do? Switch, take Spikes damage, and get confused again? Rotom-W was their Klefki counter. Of the things on their team, Rotom-W handles Klefki best. The only thing switching would accomplish was racking up passive damage and risking paralysis on another Pokemon.
 
JustDoingStats said:
What else would you expect them to do? Switch, take Spikes damage, and get confused again? Rotom-W was their Klefki counter. Of the things on their team, Rotom-W handles Klefki best. The only thing switching would accomplish was racking up passive damage and risking paralysis on another Pokemon.
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I see an umbreon on his team who resists dark, has healing/ can heal allies as well as having the ability to give klefki paralysis back due to synchronize. Infact umbreon is a much stronger answer to klefki than rotom-w, but the key to beating klefki lies in having 2 answers for it instead of just 1, and its also worth noting most of the best pokes to deal with klefki are defensive ones instead of trying to take it down with your fast frail sweeper.
Luckily, despite needing two counters the list of pokemon that can be used together to beat klefki is actually surprisingly large. Dark types like umbreon, fighting types like conkeldurr, pokemon with regenerator like slowbro, pokemon with natural cure like blissey, pokemon with t-wave immunities like landorus, etc etc.. there are a lot of ou worthy pokemon to pick from, enough for the existence of klefki to not narrow down your team options.
 
The Freeing of the Ubers helped with Klefki/Prankster users a lot. Magic Coat on either Defense or Speed Deoxys, though It's a better investment of a move slot on Defense, shuts down Prankster users with +4 priority to their +1. Gotta love it.
 
Mjolnir128 said:
The Freeing of the Ubers helped with Klefki/Prankster users a lot. Magic Coat on either Defense or Speed Deoxys, though It's a better investment of a move slot on Defense, shuts down Prankster users with +4 priority to their +1. Gotta love it.
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Most Magic Coat users fail to stop Klefki for much the same reasons the Magic Bouncers do: they either take too much from Foul Play and / or they cannot do enough damage back. You also can't even switch in Magic Coat users into Klefki like Magic Bouncers can. A Taunter that doesn't mind paralysis (Gliscor) would be a better; even though it won't stop the first Prankstered attack, it will stop the subsequent ones instead of having to spam / predict Magic Coat every turn (especially if Klefki has Substitute).
 
I'd imagine magic coat on anything that can't bluff consistent 25%+ damage would lose to klefki simply because they'd need to predict correctly 5+ times whereas the klefki would only need to do it once. Once they get that sub up, magic coat is completely unthreatening.
 
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Dual Screens Klefki and Switcheroo Klefki do different things entirely: Dual Screens Klefki makes it easier for teammates to setup, while Switcheroo Klefki can cripple almost anything if fitted with the right item (Iron Ball cripples Rotom-W & Gliscor without restricting Klefki, while Choice items can cripple numerous Ground-types / bulky walls).
 
Punchshroom said:
Dual Screens Klefki and Switcheroo Klefki do different things entirely: Dual Screens Klefki makes it easier for teammates to setup, while Switcheroo Klefki can cripple almost anything if fitted with the right item (Iron Ball cripples Rotom-W & Gliscor without restricting Klefki, while Choice items can cripple numerous Ground-types / bulky walls).
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Since every single Rotom-W seems to be running Trick nowadays, I'm not so sure about running Iron Ball. Scarf seems to cover more terrain (although not stopping Rotom-W).
 
guustavooo said:
Since every single Rotom-W seems to be running Trick nowadays, I'm not so sure about running Iron Ball. Scarf seems to cover more terrain (although not stopping Rotom-W).
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They do? Because in my experiences Choice Rotom-W is wholly uncommon unseen compared to Leftovers / ChestoRest Rotom-W. Iron Ball's main benefit is not restricting Klefki so that it can time the item swapping appropriately and can cripple Ground-types, though an already poisoned Gliscor and Mega Garchomp still do not care for Switcheroo.
 
Switcheroo shouldn't work on a Mega Garchomp right or do you mean that Gliscor (poisoned) and Mega Garchomp do not care about it?
 
It's a little gimmicky, but a parafusion set, with t-wave, swagger, substitute and foulplay can work as an annoyer. I find it's particularly effective as a lead, against something like forretress with little offensive presence. If you let it set up rocks or spikes while you get behind your substitute, it can become a real pain to get rid of. Definitely pair with a spinner to mitigate the absence of imprison / taunt.
 
LuvdiscSushi said:
It's a little gimmicky, but a parafusion set, with t-wave, swagger, substitute and foulplay can work as an annoyer. I find it's particularly effective as a lead, against something like forretress with little offensive presence. If you let it set up rocks or spikes while you get behind your substitute, it can become a real pain to get rid of. Definitely pair with a spinner to mitigate the absence of imprison / taunt.
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why did no-one think of this?
 
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