Knights and Jokers - OU RMT

[Mystletainn]

Mystletainn's OU Team​

Hey everyone! I came here (again) because I've been playing quite a bit on Pokemon Showdown, but I can just never seem to get above the 1850 area, and I was wondering what tips you guy could give me with my team. At a glance, we have:

I'm not really sure what to call it as for a theme for the team's battling strategy as a whole, so I named the team based on what my Pokemon are doing in my battles. Wear down the opposition, create holes, cause problems, and then try for a sweep. Knights and Jokers... and we have three of each.

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Genesect @ Choice Band Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Flamethrower
- Extremespeed Ice Beam

So here we have the first of the Jokers, Genesect. Returning to OU, it's easy to see why every other team has one. As a Joker, he just messes around with so many things, be it causing massive dents, revenge-killing, or simply proceeding to U-Turn out to a counter. I've forsaken the more-common Scarf for a Choice Band. This thing hits so ridiculously hard. U-Turn is obviously there, and then I have Iron Head for another STAB, one that I can stay in with and just wreck stuff. Flamethrower, despite being a special move on a Band set, is still a better choice than Blaze Kick because of what I want Genesect to hit with it, and it should get the Download boost anyway. Extremespeed is why I can run Band over Scarf, and this gives me the priority to revenge-kill without needing Scarf. Of course, this makes it necessary to have the Hasty nature, but with Flamethrower in the moveset, it doesn't really matter in the end. A very solid pick for my team that allows me to cause a lot of holes earlygame.

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Porygon2 is the first of our Knights, as their purposes are straightforward, yet strong. With Eviolite, the data duck is very bulky, and hits hard with Analytic, a Modest nature, and full special attack investment. Tri-Attack is our STAB move, attacking anything that's not weak to the next two moves. The famous BoltBeam combo strikes down a large number of Pokemon, making Porygon2 quite versatile, as it's also able to take hits from an equally large number of Pokemon. Recover gives Porygon2 the recovery it loves, making it last for a while and being able to wall out many Pokemon and KO them should they stay in.

Lucario (M) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon

Our second Knight is one of our two sweepers. Mega Lucario is a very strong Pokemon in the tier, and can run either physical or special. Mine is the special variant, because the other sweeper on my team is physical, and I also find the special Lucario set better anyway. Nasty Plot is the boosting move for the special set, which allows the rest of our attacks to hit very hard. Vacuum Wave is chosen for priority, even if it does have a significant power drop from Aura Sphere. But still, Flash Cannon is a very strong STAB move that's surprisingly good with neutral coverage, and has the same damage as Aura Sphere. Dark Pulse is our coverage move of choice, letting him hit many Pokemon that he wouldn't be able to otherwise.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split

So here we have the second of the Jokers, Rotom-Wash, always a staple of OU teams everywhere. This is the specially defensive version, which I believe is better than the physically defensive version since it carries Will-o-Wisp anyway, which lets it Burn attacking threats as well as cause residual damage. Volt Switch helps keep momentum, doing a sizable amount of damage in the process while switching out to a proper counter. Hydro Pump is its attacking move, denting quite a few Pokemon and even crippling some that get hit super-effectively, if not outright being KO'd. The only problem I have with this specially defensive set is that is has a harder time switching in on Talonflame than the physically defensive one, since it can't be burned, either. However, I do have Extremespeed Genesect at the ready to revenge-kill should I need to do so. I also like having Leftovers and Pain Split rather than the Chesto-Rest set, partially because you can recover more than once, partially because I'm fairly good with predictions, and partially because most people I see use Chesto-Rest, and not many people expect Pain Split.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Spd / 220 Def
Impish Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn
- Zen Headbutt Psychic
- Recover

Joker number three is here, and with Celebi comes our sneaky pebbles. Spikes aren't really the best of choices these days due to Defog, but Stealth Rocks is still a premier hazard because it's so simple to set up. However, the odd choice that I've taken is with my EVs and nature. Yep, we have a physical Celebi here. My team as a whole is actually somewhat weak to Fighting, and here lies my answer. Zen Headbutt is what she'll be using to attack them, if not U-Turning out, and Recover for instant healing. My main issue with Celebi is that I want to use Thunder Wave, but I don't really want to take out either of the two attacking moves for it, and I still need Rocks and Recovery. Plus, there's also the fact that Heal Bell could be used to help out the rest of the team with any status problems, as many of them are bothered by at least one of the three. 4MSS wins the day, though at the moment, I'm using U-Turn to protect myself from Taunt. But anyway, I can throw in Celebi as a physical wall to answer some threats, using that chance to set up Rocks, or just take them down if possible. Still, one of the main reasons I wanted to make this RMT was to get help with Celebi.

Haxorus (M) @ Life Orb Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 220 Spd / 252 Atk / 36 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop Outrage
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab Superpower

And the last member, third Knight Haxorus. Dragon Dance sweeper. With these EVs, unboosted can outpseed base 80s such as Dragonite, and with a boost, you can outspeed any unboosted Pokemon in the metagame barring Deoxys-S (get lost already). I prefer Dual Chop over Dragon Claw, as it can get by Substitute, get by Sturdy, and importantly, get by Focus Sashes. This prevents Pokemon from living with a Focus Sash and killing Haxorus, and he can continue on his sweep uninterrupted. Outrage is an option, but isn't the greatest choice anymore with Fairies being introduced. For this purpose, we have the lovely coverage move of Poison Jab that happens to be in the dragon's movepool. It also hits many Grass-types for super-effective damage as an added bonus to absolutely deleting the Fairies that think they can come in. Earthquake is a great coverage move, hitting a lot of Pokemon, even moreso because of Mold Breaker canceling Levitate, which leaves only one Pokemon resistant to these three attacking moves, Skarmory, and that bird should be taken down before any attempt to sweep. Porygon2, Mega Lucario, and Genesect can all do this.

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All in all, its been a very effective team for me personally despite not having dedicated walls (rather just bulky offense with recovery on those Pokes), and I was doing decently well in the ladder until around 1800, where all of a sudden, Ice Punch decided it wanted to freeze me every single match. Ah well... But still, I've never broken into the 2000+ range, possibly because I don't solely create laddering accounts, and probably also because I didn't get lucky with ladder inflation and get +350 rating every single win, so I've been chilling at around 1700-1750. I could definitely use some pointers to make this team better, especially my dilemma with Celebi, so fire away! Don't be shy to rip my team apart, I've dealt with worse.

Cheers~

Changelog

Celebi: Impish -> Bold, Zen Headbutt -> Psychic
Haxorus: Life Orb -> Lum Berry, Dual Chop -> Outrage, Poison Jab -> Superpower
Porygon2 pending replacement for Heatran/Latias
Celebi pending U-Turn -> Thunder Wave

 

[MewTheDestroyer]

Hi there, this isn't a half bad team on paper. However, there are a few weird things that need some fixing.

Let's start with Haxorus. Poison Jab and Dual Chop just aren't looking good on it. Replace Dual Chop with Outrage. Outrage in the long run is the better move, as it is able to smash things like Landorus-T more efficiently. Switch Poison Jab for either Low Kick or Superpower. This lets Haxorus deal with things such as Ferrothorn a lot more easily, as you can OHKO it at +1 (I believe, feel free to damage calc it.)

The Celebi set looks really weird. Zen Headbutt is honestly not very good on Celebi, and I feel like Thunder Wave would be better suited. Your team looks like it'd appreciate paralysis support, and it would make sweeping with Lucario/Haxorus easier.

Now, since your team lacks a choice scarf user, I recommend making Genesect a choice scarf set. Arguably, it's the best in OU at wielding the choice scarf, and it'd help keep momentum up with your Volt-turn core.

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Spd / 220 Atk / 36 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- U-Turn
- Iron Head
- Explosion

Lastly, I really feel like Porygon just doesn't fit well on this team. Not really sure what to replace it with, but I'd experiment with Fire types to complete that Fire/Water/Grass core. Heatran looks like a good candidate, as it shuts down Talonflame completely, and since Rotom is specially defensive, it can't take on Banded Talonflame as well as it'd like to (don't get me wrong, it does a great job at it, however it'll get worn down quickly if it's your own switch-in.)

Hope I helped a bit, and good luck!

 

[Mystletainn]

Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. :)

Haxorus

Ok, so would I simply use Earthquake for Fairies, then? Also, Outrage confusion would halt Haxorus' sweep, hence my preference for the 80 BP moves alongside the ability to switch moves, so should I carry Lum Berry instead? I mean, how much of a difference does Outrage+Lum make over DC+LO? I personally don't love the downsides to that move, similar to the attack drops from Superpower. A sweeper shouldn't be meant to halt its own sweep... I just need some convincing here.

Celebi

Without Zen Headbutt, it's very hard for Celebi to kill the Fighting-types it was meant to wall, but I do believe that Thunder Wave is needed.

Genesect

The reason I was not running a scarfer was because of BandSect's Extremespeed. However, I'm still very curious about the set you posted. No Flamethrower leaves it walled by Steels? I would much rather replace Explosion with that. Previously, I did have Ice Beam run by Porygon2, but it's still great on Genesect.

Porygon2

Porygon2 was meant to be an all-purpose generic sponge on my team that can take many attacks and have them only do around 25% to it, and KO back thanks to its power and Recover. I like it because it has a lot of variety with what it can fight. I suppose Heatran fulfills this same purpose? Though it does lack the ability to outsustain multiple enemy Pokemon without the bulk of Eviolite and especially Recover. It also has a nifty Ghost immunity.

Thoughts on what I should do? Celebi is physically defensive to counter Fighting types as well as having the Grass typing for other resists, which is why I had made Rotom specially defensive to begin with (Celebi being physically defensive). If I had flipped those two tank roles, I'd still need a Fighting counter, but at the same time, something that retains an offensive presence without dying fast. Therein lies my dilemma. A pivot, I suppose you'd call it. Ordinarily I'd prefer a special attacker here, but if Genesect takes Scarf, he's no longer primarily physical, so we have some flexibility.

Also, would I need Defog/Spin on this team? I mean, Rocks are quite manageable from experience, but Sticky Web is really, really frustrating.

 

[MewTheDestroyer]

Thanks for the reply! I really appreciate it. :)

Haxorus

Ok, so would I simply use Earthquake for Fairies, then? Also, Outrage confusion would halt Haxorus' sweep, hence my preference for the 80 BP moves alongside the ability to switch moves, so should I carry Lum Berry instead? I mean, how much of a difference does Outrage+Lum make over DC+LO? I personally don't love the downsides to that move, similar to the attack drops from Superpower. A sweeper shouldn't be meant to halt its own sweep... I just need some convincing here.

Celebi

Without Zen Headbutt, it's very hard for Celebi to kill the Fighting-types it was meant to wall, but I do believe that Thunder Wave is needed.

Genesect

The reason I was not running a scarfer was because of BandSect's Extremespeed. However, I'm still very curious about the set you posted. No Flamethrower leaves it walled by Steels? I would much rather replace Explosion with that. Previously, I did have Ice Beam run by Porygon2, but it's still great on Genesect.

Porygon2

Porygon2 was meant to be an all-purpose generic sponge on my team that can take many attacks and have them only do around 25% to it, and KO back thanks to its power and Recover. I like it because it has a lot of variety with what it can fight. I suppose Heatran fulfills this same purpose? Though it does lack the ability to outsustain multiple enemy Pokemon without the bulk of Eviolite and especially Recover. It also has a nifty Ghost immunity.

Thoughts on what I should do? Celebi is physically defensive to counter Fighting types as well as having the Grass typing for other resists, which is why I had made Rotom specially defensive to begin with (Celebi being physically defensive). If I had flipped those two tank roles, I'd still need a Fighting counter, but at the same time, something that retains an offensive presence without dying fast. Therein lies my dilemma. A pivot, I suppose you'd call it. Ordinarily I'd prefer a special attacker here, but if Genesect takes Scarf, he's no longer primarily physical, so we have some flexibility.

Also, would I need Defog/Spin on this team? I mean, Rocks are quite manageable from experience, but Sticky Web is really, really frustrating.

Haxorus: With Haxorus, it's about punching large holes in your opponent's walls. Lum Berry Outrage is always the superior set, as it allows you to smash through the things that switch in to it. Superpower or Low Kick also should be used, as Ferrothorn can dead wall you, even with the strongest Outrage in OU barring Kyurem-B.

Celebi: If you want to hit fighting types, run Psychic. It hits harder and U-Turn doesn't care about the -attack nature. Just run Bold instead of Impish.

Genesect: Your team needs a scarfer really badly, and Flamethrower can most definitely be used over Explosion.

Porygon 2: It's just not that good (decent on trick room teams, but otherwise pretty bad.) I really feel like Heatran would fit on this team fairly well, due to it being a more solid Dragon check, and being able to wall Fairies as well (Genesect isn't too bulky, sadly.)

 

[Mystletainn]

Haxorus: Alright, sounds good. So, Haxorus should try for its sweep midgame, and Lucario's later? Originally, I had been using BandSect as the wallbreaker, so I'd simply just be changing my timing of Haxorus' usage I suppose.

Genesect: Sounds good, I'll try it out.

Porygon2: Okay, so what set should I use for Heatran? Also, I've been thinking about Latias, as it's also a good pivot with Defog, but would it be worse to have another Dark weakness in exchange for a Ground immunity as well as not having a Fire?

Celebi: So, with Heatran as well, Thunder Wave is probably a good idea. Can Celebi do fine without U-Turn?